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95% of Family Farms facing ruin after joining the European Union

Started by shadowhawk31 · · 👁 12 views · 168 replies

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Participants shadowhawk31Kate Chase59wearytrucker22Noah SullivanBetty Bennett70Alex Scott5rowdypilot19Thomas Nelson25Sam Martinez9Harold Evans4rustydriverJerry Clark72neonhound18slysurfer14James Phillips92Paul Gonzalez10bluetinker54Benjamin Taylor6Sam MurphyJerry Martinez6Michelle Adams39stormyangler12dustymarlin10Nicole Nguyen6 …
slysurfer14 slysurfer14 Active Member
100 messages
joined Jul 2014
#101 ·
Paul Gonzalez10 said:To be perfectly honest, I have NEVER eaten a high-quality watermelon from a supermarket. The stuff they stock in grocery stores is complete junk compared to the real deal—and let's be clear, not every local farmer grows the genuine article; in my neck of the woods, there are maybe ten growers, and perhaps only two or three of them actually produce the real thing. The rest are hit or miss... but a decent one will run you about 2-$1.00, whereas the supermarket variety is usually at least $0.67, making it a terrible value. I wouldn't buy it even if it were only 20 cents a pound.

Watermelons just don't grow like that around here, so don't let those locals pull a fast one on you...
Jerry Martinez6 Jerry Martinez6 Member
13 messages
joined Oct 2016
#102 ·
slysurfer14 said:I don't know what you're talking about, I was already seeing a profit by my second year...
that's why you analyze the market first, figure out what works, instead of just staring over your fence and copying the neighbor...
For example, my cousin lives near Zadar, and after the war, everyone jumped into olives except for one guy everyone mocked because he planted almonds.
Those olive guys haven't even seen their first harvest yet, but this guy is harvesting almonds like crazy and making a killing...

Look, I could probably write a whole book here, but if we stick to that shortsighted coastal mindset of just planting almonds, peaches, or mandarins, we aren't getting anywhere. Let me put it simply: industry and agriculture are the bedrock, but they are deeply layered. You have the land, the machinery, the seeds, the fertilizer, the raw yields—you feed the next link in the chain. You have meat processing, and I won't even bother listing the thirty other industries that exist solely because agriculture supports them. Everything else builds on top of that. A strong agricultural sector means a strong nation. You can't have a powerhouse state without solid agriculture, and you can't have solid agriculture without a powerful state. It’s a cycle of cause and effect, and honestly, it all boils down to this: this country is a total mess, and there's no point looking any further.

To get back to your post: what exactly are you feeding people with those almonds, man? And just because YOU are profitable, who actually cares? Who gives a damn if YOU are making money? Are you an American? Do you actually love America? Or do you just love your own profit? It’s the same question for the importers, the middlemen, the bulk buyers of foreign goods, and the free-market enthusiasts: do you actually care about America, or would you rather everything be part of Germany, Spain, or the Netherlands? What are you even doing here?
Paul Gonzalez10 Paul Gonzalez10 Member
17 messages
joined Aug 2017
#103 ·
slysurfer14 said:Why would that be stupid? Someone gives you a few million dollars for a nice view and you don't pay tax. Honestly, what kind of fantasy world are you guys living in...
Everything under 80 $0.00 is tax-free, so someone with an average salary isn't even making that much a year, yet they still hit you with taxes every single time...

And who exactly told you that’s tax-free?
You're completely misinformed. If your income hits 80 $167, it's absolutely taxable—income isn't the same thing as take-home pay. On that 80 $0.00 in total revenue, if you're left with 20 $0.00, well, good luck with that. And then, on that 20,000, you're paying a 12.5% tax... If you had a turnover $26833 of 80,000, then maybe you wouldn't pay, but with only 80 $0.00 in turnover, try surviving on 20 $0.00 a year if that's your primary business... If it's not your main activity, then that pay counts toward your income, so you'll be paying taxes regardless.
bluetinker54 bluetinker54 Member
24 messages
joined Oct 2014
#104 ·
slysurfer14

I was actually thinking about table grapes in $1.25 retail markets—if that's what they're selling, what on earth is their production cost? I mean, where is the profit margin in all this?

Even the price for bell peppers seems suspiciously low. Honestly, I have no idea what they’re paying for labor, but just the cost of refrigerated transport from Spain alone is at least $0.30 per kilo.

Seriously, if you can find me peppers for 50 cents 🙂
, let me know.
If you're asking who benefits from prices being this cheap, it certainly isn't the consumer; it’s definitely not the small local farmer. Someone paying $0.67/kg for peppers isn't even going to bother picking them—they'll just leave them to rot in the field.
Paul Gonzalez10 Paul Gonzalez10 Member
17 messages
joined Aug 2017
#105 ·
slysurfer14 said:Look, obviously we're talking about revenue. How much of that is actually profit is a whole different story...
With Wheat, the profit is tiny, but with other crops it's way higher—something our local farmers just don't seem to get...

They just don't get it, you say? Let's put it this way: you see better margins in field crops like sunflower, canola, or maybe soy if the weather doesn't bake it into dust...
But let's talk about vegetable farming...
I personally tried my hand at butternut squash twice. First off, it's back-breaking work. Secondly—and here's the kicker—I would have made the exact same money if I'd just gone to work for a daily wage at $8.25 an hour somewhere else. The difference is that in a standard job, your only real risk is someone stiffing you on your pay for the day (around here, they pay $6.75 an hour, but you get cash the same day... so the worst case is losing one day's pay). I'm just trying to illustrate the gap...
Forget the squash, though; let's look at sweet potatoes. Some of my colleagues grow them, and honestly, if I managed to pull in $8.25 an hourly rate, they might scrape together $10... yet growing sweet potatoes is three times harder and the risk of total LOSS is massive. It isn't a matter of "I'll make $10 an hour"—you only make that if everything goes perfectly. If things go sideways, you aren't just broke; you're in the red. It's like taking a job where, at the end of the shift, you actually have to pay your boss for the privilege of working there...
The reality is that in vegetable farming, someone is always squeezing the margin, leaving you to work for peanuts while they take the cream. We aren't stupid; it's just that many crops simply aren't worth the hassle. For instance, my uncle planted plums specifically for Maraschino cherries years ago. You wait years for them to bear fruit, everything looks great, the prices from the producers are actually fair—they're quite decent—but then, after two years, they just stop buying. There are no other buyers, or the offers are so low it's not even worth the harvest. You can't pivot to brandy because it's a specific variety—say, you need 10 lbs of fruit for one liter of spirits, whereas a standard variety gives you a liter from just 2 lbs (I'm no distiller, but that's the ratio). People try all sorts of things, only to get cheated or left stranded when the sole buyer pulls out. I know a guy in a neighboring town who grows onions for Walmart; he does a fantastic job, but he's the only player in town. He floods his 7 or 8 acres, and Walmart doesn't need a single onion from anyone else in the area. The rest of us can't just plant onions because there's no market for us—there's a market, sure, but the terms are predatory, so nobody bothers...
rowdypilot19 rowdypilot19 Active Member
143 messages
joined Jan 2018
#106 ·
Jerry Martinez6 said:Look, I could probably write a whole book here, but if we stick to that shortsighted coastal mindset of just planting almonds, peaches, or mandarins, we aren't getting anywhere. Let me put it simply: industry and agriculture are the bedrock, but they are deeply layered. You have the land, the machinery, the seeds, the fertilizer, the raw yields—you feed the next link in the chain. You have meat processing, and I won't even bother listing the thirty other industries that exist solely because agriculture supports them. Everything else builds on top of that. A strong agricultural sector means a strong nation. You can't have a powerhouse state without solid agriculture, and you can't have solid agriculture without a powerful state. It’s a cycle of cause and effect, and honestly, it all boils down to this: this country is a total mess, and there's no point looking any further.

To get back to your post: what exactly are you feeding people with those almonds, man? And just because YOU are profitable, who actually cares? Who gives a damn if YOU are making money? Are you an American? Do you actually love America? Or do you just love your own profit? It’s the same question for the importers, the middlemen, the bulk buyers of foreign goods, and the free-market enthusiasts: do you actually care about America, or would you rather everything be part of Germany, Spain, or the Netherlands? What are you even doing here?

Look, you're doing this for yourself. You aren't doing it for America, Germany, or Spain. It's just about you, I guess.

So, when the government decides to hit us with a new tax, does any of that percentage actually land in your pocket, or does it just... vanish? I mean, does anyone actually see a dime of it, or does it all just get swallowed up by the system? I guess it's hard to tell sometimes. Maybe some of it trickles down, but honestly, most of the time it feels like it just disappears into thin air. What do you guys think? Does it ever actually reach you?

bluetinker54 said:slysurfer14

I was actually thinking about table grapes in $1.25 retail markets—if that's what they're selling, what on earth is their production cost? I mean, where is the profit margin in all this?

Even the price for bell peppers seems suspiciously low. Honestly, I have no idea what they’re paying for labor, but just the cost of refrigerated transport from Spain alone is at least $0.30 per kilo.

Seriously, if you can find me peppers for 50 cents 🙂
, let me know.
If you're asking who benefits from prices being this cheap, it certainly isn't the consumer; it’s definitely not the small local farmer. Someone paying $0.67/kg for peppers isn't even going to bother picking them—they'll just leave them to rot in the field.

Maybe just buy out their entire annual dividend for the year, then you'll probably see that kind of price. I guess.

I mean, I guess their labor costs are probably way higher over there in the States than they are here, but honestly, you really only need someone for the computer analysis and the dosing part, and then just some picking. That’s pretty much it, I suppose.
Paul Gonzalez10 Paul Gonzalez10 Member
17 messages
joined Aug 2017
#107 ·
slysurfer14 said:Watermelons just don't grow like that around here, so don't let those locals pull a fast one on you...

Look, I’m not trying to go in circles here. Regarding taxes—pardon me, let me rephrase—it's not that you don't pay tax on a $20,500 income; it's that you pay on everything *above* that amount. But let’s be honest: $20,500 is an absolute pittance. How much is that monthly? $533 It’s a much more realistic picture if you consider this: you bring in $200,000 from farming—say, grain production—and your actual take-home profit is $40,000. At that point, you are definitely paying your fair share of taxes.

As for the watermelons—I have no idea where you're from—but when I talk about them, I'm specifically referring to Eastern Slavonia. If nobody in your neck of the woods grows them, then you can't even have "local" ones to begin with. Besides, there's a massive difference in quality. Take olive oil, for example: if you're on the Mediterranean Coast, you can get high-end oil from a local producer everyone knows and trusts, or you can get "local" oil that is complete garbage, or you can buy imported stuff. Not everything labeled "local" is actually good,...
And decent local goods will cost you, say, $47, while the cheap imported junk costs $23... In the case of these watermelons, we just happened to hit a similar price point. It's as if the imported oil and the premium local oil both cost $140.
slysurfer14 slysurfer14 Active Member
100 messages
joined Jul 2014
#108 ·
Jerry Martinez6 said:Look, I could probably write a whole book here, but if we stick to that shortsighted coastal mindset of just planting almonds, peaches, or mandarins, we aren't getting anywhere. Let me put it simply: industry and agriculture are the bedrock, but they are deeply layered. You have the land, the machinery, the seeds, the fertilizer, the raw yields—you feed the next link in the chain. You have meat processing, and I won't even bother listing the thirty other industries that exist solely because agriculture supports them. Everything else builds on top of that. A strong agricultural sector means a strong nation. You can't have a powerhouse state without solid agriculture, and you can't have solid agriculture without a powerful state. It’s a cycle of cause and effect, and honestly, it all boils down to this: this country is a total mess, and there's no point looking any further.

To get back to your post: what exactly are you feeding people with those almonds, man? And just because YOU are profitable, who actually cares? Who gives a damn if YOU are making money? Are you an American? Do you actually love America? Or do you just love your own profit? It’s the same question for the importers, the middlemen, the bulk buyers of foreign goods, and the free-market enthusiasts: do you actually care about America, or would you rather everything be part of Germany, Spain, or the Netherlands? What are you even doing here?

I read that three times and I still have no clue what you're even rambling about up there...
https://www.kroger.com/click/#!/product...a-300-g-k-plus

So, a pound of almonds $53, a pound of Wheat $0.33... I mean, seriously, who's going to go plant almonds when they see the price of wheat?
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.15731...2!8i6656?hl=us

This is a plantation. Zoom out and you'll see it's already a real operation that's actually bringing in money now...
Paul Gonzalez10 Paul Gonzalez10 Member
17 messages
joined Aug 2017
#109 ·
I think I get why people outside this industry love to talk down to us and dismiss our subsidies, but honestly, I’m just exhausted from constantly explaining the mechanics of how this actually works—and how it *should* work. It would be like you working for a measly $0.00 when you should be earning $333; that gap of 3-4 $0.00 is exactly what the subsidy covers (which, let’s not forget, is funded by taxpayers—including yourselves, since you've earned enough to pay into the system too). Would any of you actually stick around for a $333 monthly salary if the government or the European Union didn't bridge that gap for you?
bluetinker54 bluetinker54 Member
24 messages
joined Oct 2014
#110 ·
And you’re really out here claiming they're selling stuff at Kroger for 160 😉

Or is it actually four times cheaper than that?
shadowhawk31 shadowhawk31 MemberOP
45 messages
joined Jan 2019
#111 ·
Some people just don't get how things work here.

Tourism this year? It’s practically non-existent—basically invisible.
Even last year wasn't exactly great, if we're being honest.

You had those lucky folks who owned property right on the water—you know, the ones sitting on savings because they were making a killing off tourists.

But then you have the others—the ones who went all in, took out massive loans, and invested everything. They’re basically one disaster away from total ruin; all it takes is one major incident on the coast to wipe them out.
Take what happened in Italy, for example. They recently brought in rules requiring any Non-profit organization helping "refugees" to disclose their funding sources and carry a police officer on board. Suddenly, these NGOs stopped helping refugees altogether—which, let's be real, actually reduced their numbers. In essence, Italy effectively shut down the business cooperation between humanitarian NGOs and human traffickers by adding police presence, so the groups just quit their "humanitarian work" because the profit margins vanished.
The fallout? Refugees might just find a whole new route.

We can't rule out a path through Albania, Mexico, and America heading straight toward Canada.
And if that happens, it could mean the absolute collapse of American tourism.

Or, on the flip side, imagine if terrorism just suddenly ceased in almost all of America's competitors.

Right now, America and Portugal are pretty much the only spots left without terrorism or refugee issues hitting the tourist destinations directly.
But that's just the situation *right now*.
Everything can change drastically overnight, and once it does, getting back to the way things were is nearly impossible.

It’s the exact same story in agriculture. Some people poured everything into buying John Deere tractors, building massive farms, setting up livestock operations, and diving into what seemed like profitable niches.
Well, "seemed" being the keyword there.
The market is incredibly volatile, and just because something was in high demand last year doesn't mean anyone gives a damn about it this year.

I knew this one family—they built these top-tier luxury apartments, took out huge loans, and are now praying they can pay it all back over the next 20 years.
And sure, it looks fine on paper if this current peak lasts for two decades.
If it doesn't? They're finished, just like so many other farmers out there.
James Phillips92 James Phillips92 Active Member
216 messages
joined Aug 2013
#112 ·
Paul Gonzalez10 said:Three disease protections? Are we just waiting for days when the wind isn't blowing? Like, you start spraying, the wind picks up, and you have to pack it in and head home.... then there's insect control, weed control, growth regulators—and in a bad year, you might end up treating the crop four different times from planting through to maturity. Oh, and if an insect infestation hits during the heading stage? You get to spray again. And then you just have to pray to God that after you've done everything perfectly, you don't get hit by a late frost—and that the price stays at least $4.00 for Grade 3 wheat. It's not exactly a walk in the park, is it? Honestly, your take on subsidies is a bit misguided. That money would actually mean something if you weren't paying rent on the land—but where is that rent? $933 What kind of subsidy covers the cost per acre? Basically, you have to be in that lucky 5% who execute everything flawlessly just to break even—and even then, you're banking on decent rainfall and avoiding major storms. Now you'll probably tell me to "just get insurance." Well, I do, but insurance only recognizes damage if the yield drops below 5.5 tons per acre. Meanwhile, I have to chase at least 8 tons per acre just to feel like I actually made a living.
It’s not quite that simple. I'm not trying to lecture you on tourism since that's not my field. But believe me—you have far more than 20 days of work when it comes to wheat....

That’s a perfect description of farming for people who think a farmer just walks past a field, says "wheat, grow!" and then shows up six months later with a combine to harvest it.
James Phillips92 James Phillips92 Active Member
216 messages
joined Aug 2013
#113 ·
rowdypilot19 said:Look, subsidies and pensions aren't inherently bad ideas, but I guess people in America have really turned the whole art of cutting corners into a fine science. 😁

That is just brilliant—so, basically, to drive a nail into a board, you need a hammer, a nail, and a board. Just incredible.

Honestly, I'm stunned.

I’m assuming you’re talking about American Todorica and his crowd—they’re definitely the ones who perfected the craft.
Michelle Adams39 Michelle Adams39 Newcomer
3 messages
joined Feb 2018
#114 ·
slysurfer14 said:I read that three times and I still have no clue what you're even rambling about up there...
https://www.kroger.com/click/#!/product...a-300-g-k-plus

So, a pound of almonds $53, a pound of Wheat $0.33... I mean, seriously, who's going to go plant almonds when they see the price of wheat?
https://www.google.com/maps/@44.15731...2!8i6656?hl=us

This is a plantation. Zoom out and you'll see it's already a real operation that's actually bringing in money now...

A pound of almonds on the Mediterranean Coast is $40—anyway, whereabouts is your brother-in-law located?
Figs are probably the most profitable right now, I think. Everyone who went into olives like I did ended up losing out unless they had at least 2,000 trees... maybe lavender or sage is a better bet.
James Phillips92 James Phillips92 Active Member
216 messages
joined Aug 2013
#115 ·
shadowhawk31 said:Some people just don't get how things work here.

Tourism this year? It’s practically non-existent—basically invisible.
Even last year wasn't exactly great, if we're being honest.

You had those lucky folks who owned property right on the water—you know, the ones sitting on savings because they were making a killing off tourists.

But then you have the others—the ones who went all in, took out massive loans, and invested everything. They’re basically one disaster away from total ruin; all it takes is one major incident on the coast to wipe them out.
Take what happened in Italy, for example. They recently brought in rules requiring any Non-profit organization helping "refugees" to disclose their funding sources and carry a police officer on board. Suddenly, these NGOs stopped helping refugees altogether—which, let's be real, actually reduced their numbers. In essence, Italy effectively shut down the business cooperation between humanitarian NGOs and human traffickers by adding police presence, so the groups just quit their "humanitarian work" because the profit margins vanished.
The fallout? Refugees might just find a whole new route.

We can't rule out a path through Albania, Mexico, and America heading straight toward Canada.
And if that happens, it could mean the absolute collapse of American tourism.

Or, on the flip side, imagine if terrorism just suddenly ceased in almost all of America's competitors.

Right now, America and Portugal are pretty much the only spots left without terrorism or refugee issues hitting the tourist destinations directly.
But that's just the situation *right now*.
Everything can change drastically overnight, and once it does, getting back to the way things were is nearly impossible.

It’s the exact same story in agriculture. Some people poured everything into buying John Deere tractors, building massive farms, setting up livestock operations, and diving into what seemed like profitable niches.
Well, "seemed" being the keyword there.
The market is incredibly volatile, and just because something was in high demand last year doesn't mean anyone gives a damn about it this year.

I knew this one family—they built these top-tier luxury apartments, took out huge loans, and are now praying they can pay it all back over the next 20 years.
And sure, it looks fine on paper if this current peak lasts for two decades.
If it doesn't? They're finished, just like so many other farmers out there.

If we don't protect our borders, then we haven't earned the right to have a state. We all pay taxes to this country, and in return, we expect the government to keep us safe so we can keep paying those same taxes.
wearytrucker22 wearytrucker22 Active Member
222 messages
joined Dec 2012
#116 ·
bluetinker54 said:I assume you’re keeping an eye on the price trends; almonds usually hover around $110-$40, though you might catch them on sale at big retailers like Walmart for maybe $70-$90. But honestly, those $53 prices are more of a fluke than anything else.
I'm not entirely sure what they're charging at the local farmers' market, but I doubt they're much higher than what you'd find in a grocery store.

Yeah, I suppose honey is a bit of a niche product after all, isn't it? 😉

Almond prices have tanked to $5 per kg from a record high of $9 per kg.

An eight-year-old almond orchard yields about 2,000 kg of kernels per hectare at a price of up to $12 per kilo, which works out to roughly $23.
But just like olives, high-intensity almond farming is easy and profitable. Even if you're just messing around, by year two you're looking at 2 tons per hectare, and later on, it can climb to 10,000 kg. At $35 a kilo, that’s $350 $0.00 plus the revenue from firewood after 10-15 years.

As for this guy selling almonds for $53, would he actually buy 24-48 tons of the world's finest, cleaned almonds at $13? I doubt it. People who pull in salaries of $6000 a month or more have already snapped those up. How much does he even pay his staff when he's selling almonds at $53?
stormyangler12 stormyangler12 Member
27 messages
joined Dec 2014
#117 ·
Subsidies were actually an American invention back in the 1930s—born out of those legendary droughts and dust bowl storms. In Europe, they didn't even start rolling out until after WWII. The long and short of it? Their farmers have been benefiting from these incentives at least 50 years longer than we have. Plus, they didn't have to deal with socialism or arbitrary limits like our 10-hectare ownership cap. That’s a massive reason why we seem so much "clueless" compared to the rest of the world that competes directly against us.

In America, there are about 180,000 small family farms. Out of those, 80,000 receive subsidies, and of that group, only about 25,000 are actually professional farmers who rely on agriculture as their sole source of income.

If you want proof of how useless these supports are, just look at the numbers: 15 years ago, we had 60,000 dairy farmers; today, we’re down to about 6,000. In my own village alone, roughly 800 young people have left in just the last few years—that's about 70%. For that matter, regions like Lika, Banija, and Zagora are full of cheap, unworked land, yet nobody cares about it, despite being constantly lectured by "experts" from the cities.

The big agricultural giants like Belje, the Vinkovci basketball team, and El Paso haven't turned a profit since they were founded, despite having massive cash reserves and conditions that 99% of peasants can only dream of. Even so, there are some fantastic family farms in Slavonia today, and business trends are actually looking quite good. But you wouldn't know it through the sheer mass of truly "unique" and "optimistic" little hobby farms out there (for context, only the city of Washington, D.C. has about 1900 subsidy recipients).
Jerry Clark72 Jerry Clark72 Member
30 messages
joined Jul 2012
#118 ·

stormyangler12 said:Subsidies were actually an American invention back in the 1930s—born out of those legendary droughts and dust bowl storms. In Europe, they didn't even start rolling out until after WWII. The long and short of it? Their farmers have been benefiting from these incentives at least 50 years longer than we have. Plus, they didn't have to deal with socialism or arbitrary limits like our 10-hectare ownership cap. That’s a massive reason why we seem so much "clueless" compared to the rest of the world that competes directly against us.

In America, there are about 180,000 small family farms. Out of those, 80,000 receive subsidies, and of that group, only about 25,000 are actually professional farmers who rely on agriculture as their sole source of income.

If you want proof of how useless these supports are, just look at the numbers: 15 years ago, we had 60,000 dairy farmers; today, we’re down to about 6,000. In my own village alone, roughly 800 young people have left in just the last few years—that's about 70%. For that matter, regions like Lika, Banija, and Zagora are full of cheap, unworked land, yet nobody cares about it, despite being constantly lectured by "experts" from the cities.

The big agricultural giants like Belje, the Vinkovci basketball team, and El Paso haven't turned a profit since they were founded, despite having massive cash reserves and conditions that 99% of peasants can only dream of. Even so, there are some fantastic family farms in Slavonia today, and business trends are actually looking quite good. But you wouldn't know it through the sheer mass of truly "unique" and "optimistic" little hobby farms out there (for context, only the city of Washington, D.C. has about 1900 subsidy recipients).

Have you ever actually spent any time in Washington, D.C.?

There’s some local produce vendor over there making more money than half the counties in this state combined. 😁
stormyangler12 stormyangler12 Member
27 messages
joined Dec 2014
#119 ·
Oh, sure, just like the American Almeria. Except I don't quite get how we can claim that, considering the fact that our fruit and vegetable sector is actually responsible for our biggest trade deficit.
Jerry Clark72 Jerry Clark72 Member
30 messages
joined Jul 2012
#120 ·
stormyangler12 said:Oh, sure, just like the American Almeria. Except I don't quite get how we can claim that, considering the fact that our fruit and vegetable sector is actually responsible for our biggest trade deficit.

I guess we're all just sitting around waiting for you guys to fix it.

By the way, pull up Google Maps and take a look.

The whole Washington, D.C. area includes places like Kupinecki Kraljevec, Odranski Obrez, and Donji Dragnozec.

And then there's Odar and Hrasce. Honestly, the entire Buzin area reeks of cattle.

I don't drive through there as much lately, but I used to run into it constantly near iHeartMedia over on Venceslav Holjevac Avenue.

Seriously, just check Google Maps. It’s like a total wasteland out there.

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