Trust, betrayal, and emptiness... in communication

I’ve spent plenty of time posting and reading threads here that touch on the breakdown of trust, betrayal, and pure emptiness...

What fascinates me more and more every single day—even if I realize people have to play by these shallow rules just to survive—is how effortlessly people toss words and sentences around. There is this terrifying ease with which people respond without a shred of empathy.

Let me break it down for you in two points:

1.) So many people—and let's be honest, maybe all of us—talk about others with such reckless abandon, yet they lack the self-awareness to talk about themselves.

2.) There is a profound hollowness in modern communication. Everything has become a performance of nodding and smiling. People offer responses without having any clue what you’re actually saying, what you’re talking about, or how you even feel. They just want to say *something* back, even if they haven't given a single thought to the substance.

Does this entire culture teach us to stop fighting an uphill battle? Does it tell the small minority who actually care to just give up and become soulless shells ourselves, perhaps limiting our humanity strictly to our immediate families?

Emptiness, huh... yeah... I feel like I’m seeing more and more of it out in the real world lately too. It’s like people aren't actually "living" their lives anymore—they're just checking boxes and going through the motions.

briskranger5 said:I’ve spent plenty of time posting and reading threads here that touch on the breakdown of trust, betrayal, and pure emptiness...

What fascinates me more and more every single day—even if I realize people have to play by these shallow rules just to survive—is how effortlessly people toss words and sentences around. There is this terrifying ease with which people respond without a shred of empathy.

Let me break it down for you in two points:

1.) So many people—and let's be honest, maybe all of us—talk about others with such reckless abandon, yet they lack the self-awareness to talk about themselves.

2.) There is a profound hollowness in modern communication. Everything has become a performance of nodding and smiling. People offer responses without having any clue what you’re actually saying, what you’re talking about, or how you even feel. They just want to say *something* back, even if they haven't given a single thought to the substance.

Does this entire culture teach us to stop fighting an uphill battle? Does it tell the small minority who actually care to just give up and become soulless shells ourselves, perhaps limiting our humanity strictly to our immediate families?

Tinder 🙂

We still haven't even implemented a national program for erosion and siltation control.

Both erosion and siltation are merely symptoms of a porous and malicious society, wouldn't you agree?

The cure? Reading books, fostering culture, and perhaps having a few deep conversations with psychoanalysts...

silverranger14 said:Tinder 🙂

So, this is exactly what the OP is getting at. Are we saying if someone is a teenager, their opinion doesn't matter? That they need to be "taken down a notch" because of their age—as if that actually changes anything? It feels like a systematic way to crush any attempt at building a healthier, happier society. Most adults just end up being losers who folded to a system designed to favor the worst among us. The kid called the emperor naked because, honestly, a teenager hasn't been spiritually broken by the world yet—they still see things for what they really are. 😉 And your response would be, "Quiet, kid, you don't know anything."
Teenagers still have that raw, childhood honesty left—they spot something, and their brains actually work.

That’s why being a teenager was such a grueling era for most of us—it's that specific window where the world starts trying to break you, and everything good left in us fights back against it.

briskranger5 said:I’ve spent plenty of time posting and reading threads here that touch on the breakdown of trust, betrayal, and pure emptiness...

What fascinates me more and more every single day—even if I realize people have to play by these shallow rules just to survive—is how effortlessly people toss words and sentences around. There is this terrifying ease with which people respond without a shred of empathy.

Let me break it down for you in two points:

1.) So many people—and let's be honest, maybe all of us—talk about others with such reckless abandon, yet they lack the self-awareness to talk about themselves.

2.) There is a profound hollowness in modern communication. Everything has become a performance of nodding and smiling. People offer responses without having any clue what you’re actually saying, what you’re talking about, or how you even feel. They just want to say *something* back, even if they haven't given a single thought to the substance.

Does this entire culture teach us to stop fighting an uphill battle? Does it tell the small minority who actually care to just give up and become soulless shells ourselves, perhaps limiting our humanity strictly to our immediate families?

You can't walk into every single interaction with your whole soul laid bare, and frankly, you shouldn't.
Sure, there are deep, genuine connections worth having. But it’s only logical that when you have to deal with people forced upon you by your job or your neighborhood—people you didn't choose—you just go through the motions.

I don't have any desire to build deep bonds with everyone I meet. My goal is to be polite and professional when I interact with them, but I don't believe in sharing everything with every person I cross paths with...

Paul Thompson3 said:So, this is exactly what the OP is getting at. Are we saying if someone is a teenager, their opinion doesn't matter? That they need to be "taken down a notch" because of their age—as if that actually changes anything? It feels like a systematic way to crush any attempt at building a healthier, happier society. Most adults just end up being losers who folded to a system designed to favor the worst among us. The kid called the emperor naked because, honestly, a teenager hasn't been spiritually broken by the world yet—they still see things for what they really are. 😉 And your response would be, "Quiet, kid, you don't know anything."
Teenagers still have that raw, childhood honesty left—they spot something, and their brains actually work.

That’s why being a teenager was such a grueling era for most of us—it's that specific window where the world starts trying to break you, and everything good left in us fights back against it.

I am not (perhaps unfortunately😁) a teenager, nor am I naive enough to pretend we are on the same wavelength.
See my response below.

John Baker said:You can't walk into every single interaction with your whole soul laid bare, and frankly, you shouldn't.
Sure, there are deep, genuine connections worth having. But it’s only logical that when you have to deal with people forced upon you by your job or your neighborhood—people you didn't choose—you just go through the motions.

I don't have any desire to build deep bonds with everyone I meet. My goal is to be polite and professional when I interact with them, but I don't believe in sharing everything with every person I cross paths with...

That is all well and good, and I agree it isn't necessary, but that brings me back to my original point.

This whole concept of "going through the motions"—take having a massive list of people on Facebook, for instance. We chat with them, like their posts, or interact out of some vague sense of utility or necessity, even if we barely know them. There is absolutely zero emotional weight behind it.

To put it bluntly, I won't overexplain myself here.😁

Simply put, we are becoming people with multiple faces. We are one person with our families, another version of ourselves with close friends, and a completely different third person with everyone else.

And when you engage in conversation? If you aren't incredibly green—or if you haven't been worn down by life—you will say plenty of things without actually saying anything at all.

It's all surface-level: "How's work?" "Oh, it's fine, keeping busy." That's it. You're never going to actually relax and talk about how the job really feels or what your actual impressions are.

briskranger5 said:I am not (perhaps unfortunately😁) a teenager, nor am I naive enough to pretend we are on the same wavelength.
See my response below.

That is all well and good, and I agree it isn't necessary, but that brings me back to my original point.

This whole concept of "going through the motions"—take having a massive list of people on Facebook, for instance. We chat with them, like their posts, or interact out of some vague sense of utility or necessity, even if we barely know them. There is absolutely zero emotional weight behind it.

To put it bluntly, I won't overexplain myself here.😁

Simply put, we are becoming people with multiple faces. We are one person with our families, another version of ourselves with close friends, and a completely different third person with everyone else.

And when you engage in conversation? If you aren't incredibly green—or if you haven't been worn down by life—you will say plenty of things without actually saying anything at all.

It's all surface-level: "How's work?" "Oh, it's fine, keeping busy." That's it. You're never going to actually relax and talk about how the job really feels or what your actual impressions are.

True, but I don't see anything weird about that. Life requires us to play different roles, and we behave according to what's expected in each one. You can't act the same at the office as you do at home.🤷

The society you're dreaming of would require everyone to be good, everyone to understand each other, everyone to get along, and nobody to stab anyone in the back...
And that bit about "saying plenty without saying anything"... Yeah, I do that all the time. And it makes sense. If someone asks questions that don't concern them, I protect my privacy. I don't share data I don't want certain people knowing. Nobody has the right to know everything about everything.

I don't really get what your goal is here.🤣

Paul Thompson3 said:So, this is exactly what the OP is getting at. Are we saying if someone is a teenager, their opinion doesn't matter? That they need to be "taken down a notch" because of their age—as if that actually changes anything? It feels like a systematic way to crush any attempt at building a healthier, happier society. Most adults just end up being losers who folded to a system designed to favor the worst among us. The kid called the emperor naked because, honestly, a teenager hasn't been spiritually broken by the world yet—they still see things for what they really are. 😉 And your response would be, "Quiet, kid, you don't know anything."
Teenagers still have that raw, childhood honesty left—they spot something, and their brains actually work.

That’s why being a teenager was such a grueling era for most of us—it's that specific window where the world starts trying to break you, and everything good left in us fights back against it.

Look, please don't put words in my mouth.
They'll get those answers through life, not on some forum. Instead of telling the veterans to talk trash, maybe focus on him—he's the future, and he can't exactly match how much we older folks messed everything up. Our society is a total wreck, and I honestly hope today's teens do a better job than my generation did. We completely missed the mark on actually making things better.

briskranger5 said:I’ve spent plenty of time posting and reading threads here that touch on the breakdown of trust, betrayal, and pure emptiness...

What fascinates me more and more every single day—even if I realize people have to play by these shallow rules just to survive—is how effortlessly people toss words and sentences around. There is this terrifying ease with which people respond without a shred of empathy.

Let me break it down for you in two points:

1.) So many people—and let's be honest, maybe all of us—talk about others with such reckless abandon, yet they lack the self-awareness to talk about themselves.

2.) There is a profound hollowness in modern communication. Everything has become a performance of nodding and smiling. People offer responses without having any clue what you’re actually saying, what you’re talking about, or how you even feel. They just want to say *something* back, even if they haven't given a single thought to the substance.

Does this entire culture teach us to stop fighting an uphill battle? Does it tell the small minority who actually care to just give up and become soulless shells ourselves, perhaps limiting our humanity strictly to our immediate families?

Not at all.
It’s actually teaching us that there is a right time and a right place for everything.

To put it simply—when you're in Rome, you act like a Roman, because... well, being lion meat isn't exactly a great way to spend a Tuesday.

Unfortunately, the way our society is evolving feels like it's tearing down every standard of civilization we once held dear.
Hard work, actual expertise, passion, and basic honesty have turned into rare "breaking news" sensations instead of just being the baseline for everyday life.

But look, none of that is going to shock everyone into changing their ways and deciding to become total scumbags.
All you can really do is break society down into two groups: those people who actually have value and deserve your trust and sincerity, and then... everyone else.

A perfect society is an impossibility. Just like there's no such thing as pure good or pure evil.

I’d say you’re totally missing the mark thinking people aren't self-critical enough—that they only look at others. You've got it backwards.
It starts with how you talk about someone else based on how you feel about yourself. Take a woman who's miserable because she's constantly tearing herself down; she’s going to tear others down too, just to feel important. But someone who's actually happy? They don't feel the need to bash everyone else.
In my view, everyone is actually way too self-critical. When you're out in a group and start airing your own flaws, people will just weaponize them against you. That's why nobody opens up. It's a basic defense mechanism—people highlight their wins and act superior because nobody wants to hang out with someone stuck in a pity party. You only share your real weaknesses with someone you're incredibly close to, where you know there won't be any judgment. 🙂

The emptiness in communication really just comes down to who you're talking to. Certain topics only work with people you know inside and out, or at least with people who actually care about the subject. This whole thing you're describing—this superficial mingling—is just people who barely know each other. There's no substance because I'm not going to walk up to a stranger and start talking about the meaning of life or my family drama. I don't even know them. What you're describing isn't real friendship; it's just small talk with acquaintances.

At first glance, I would have also assumed this was written by a teenager, given the skewed perspective I mentioned earlier.😁

1. When people talk about themselves—especially when they start preaching about morality—they’re mostly just lying or exaggerating, which ties right back into 2.
2. Basically, you have to deal with the ego first—that whole persona they put on. I've found that giving out a few compliments can help get someone to open up, but it takes patience because people tend to be defensive and resist it. You’ve gotta be smart about it.

Michelle Carter2 said:We still haven't even implemented a national program for erosion and siltation control.

Both erosion and siltation are merely symptoms of a porous and malicious society, wouldn't you agree?

The cure? Reading books, fostering culture, and perhaps having a few deep conversations with psychoanalysts...

Sure, all of that sounds lovely as a remedy, but I’d also suggest spending more time outdoors, practicing meditation, or maybe drafting a petition to finally get a national program for pollution and contamination control actually implemented. 😉

It drives me crazy too—people obsessed with everyone else's business while being completely blind to their own flaws. Heaven forbid you mention something about them; they immediately get defensive, yet they can't help poking their noses into everything else. I'm just not built that way. For instance, on my street, the second someone speaks a little too loudly, neighbors start peeking through the blinds just to catch the gossip🤣. Everyone acts like an expert on lives they aren't even part of; it's just endless, toxic meddling.😵 Yet, if anyone actually needs a hand, those same people vanish. Honestly, I couldn't care less; eavesdropping just isn't my style. Luckily, I'm surrounded by people who feel the same way—no malicious gossips in my circle.😁

I don't mind making a passing comment now and then, but sticking my nose into someone's private life or spreading rumors is just beneath me. It’s genuinely uninteresting. People spend far too much energy focusing on others instead of themselves, which is just pointless... My motto is simple: live and let live.😁

It’s just easier for people to justify being miserable that way. People actually love seeing others fail. There’s nothing they enjoy more. It gives them an instant ego boost to tear someone else down.🍿

I guess people who don't have much going on in their own lives tend to spend way too much time obsessing over what everyone else is doing...

That’s just because nobody actually gives a damn about anyone else these days.
Everyone’s just itching to talk about themselves—their own drama, their own little lives—or they just shut up entirely.
The thing is, you can't really "transfer" someone else's frustration, joy, or embarrassment onto yourself. It’s like when someone jumps straight into the middle of a movie plot without giving you any context or an ending; you're just left standing there totally lost.
So, the only safe move is to say something super vague and general, just to make sure you don't upset them or end up looking like the bad guy.
Honestly, I find myself just chuckling half the time—not even because it's funny, but just because I didn't catch the point or I'm totally stumped. Sometimes it hits me so hard that my brain just short-circuits and all I can manage is, "Uh, I don't know what to say to that."

And for the record, I can't stand people who spend their whole lives gossiping about everyone else.

Interesting topic. I’ve actually been chewing on this for the last few days. It feels like people in our society have really started taking everything for granted lately. Someone gets a little label or a sticker slapped on them, and suddenly they think they know exactly who that person is. There’s just zero capacity for listening, empathy, or actually looking at someone’s heart. Honestly, it seems like the more ruthless you are—the better you are at putting others down—the more popular you become. But it makes you wonder: how much humanity or soul do those people actually have left? And are they even happy? On the flip side, you've got the people who feel threatened by these types—and honestly, they have every right to be—who then go around feeling miserable about it. That's not quite right, though, because deep down, they haven't quite hit that bottom-of-the-barrel level yet...

Oh, you damn righteous, non-animalistic, fragile, tender... fully threatened victims. Human adaptability... one of our supposed "blessings."
In the natural model we’re still stuck in, no matter how much people deny it... the capable ones survive and dominate. Failing to adapt is just a choice. Or an excuse.
If you use yes or no as your answer when questioning yourself (your direction)... the question of adaptation isn't any different.
The way those dominant, capable types trigger this certain level of disgust toward life... among fellow sufferers... is the same way being unable to adapt—based on fake, predetermined, built-in models of self-worth where you're either "this" or "that"—is just a mental illusion. Outside your own head, there are no dominant types, no perception of suffering, no disgust, no weakness... nothing "exists." Choosing to fight to preserve humanity as a value is a choice. Based on that choice, just like any other... consequences follow. Most likely a setup of circumstances designed to test how solid that choice actually is. There’s also a chance for a fix. And then there's repeating the same grade forever. How long you get to stay inside your own little version of "life" is up to you. You are your own God, your own slave, your own driver, your own punishment, your own obsession, your own......

Here's a simple test for that claim/logic/realization.
"Go out by yourself, deep into the middle of nowhere in the woods, sit on the ground, and close your eyes. Push away all observations—the birds chirping, the wind blowing, branches snapping, that ache in your knee.... You're safe and totally alone. Everything around you in the dark fades away. You aren't your thoughts, you aren't your pain, you aren't any physical sensation, you aren't even in your head, you aren't.... A hand, eyes snap open, the perception of a massive bear that—maybe it's just a frame of your imagination—is charging at you with a serious erection... figure it out..."

Who you are, how you feel, what you'll do, how you'll act... in that exact moment; that is who you are. Maybe you'll surprise yourself with some impossible (un)availability. Maybe not; but at least you tried.
Being primal. In the moment. "With yourself, inside yourself, outside yourself"... That's the only thing possible outside and within the burning, personal, mental model of yourself, your surroundings, your past, and your future.....

ironrider11 said:Oh, you damn righteous, non-animalistic, fragile, tender... fully threatened victims. Human adaptability... one of our supposed "blessings."
In the natural model we’re still stuck in, no matter how much people deny it... the capable ones survive and dominate. Failing to adapt is just a choice. Or an excuse.
If you use yes or no as your answer when questioning yourself (your direction)... the question of adaptation isn't any different.
The way those dominant, capable types trigger this certain level of disgust toward life... among fellow sufferers... is the same way being unable to adapt—based on fake, predetermined, built-in models of self-worth where you're either "this" or "that"—is just a mental illusion. Outside your own head, there are no dominant types, no perception of suffering, no disgust, no weakness... nothing "exists." Choosing to fight to preserve humanity as a value is a choice. Based on that choice, just like any other... consequences follow. Most likely a setup of circumstances designed to test how solid that choice actually is. There’s also a chance for a fix. And then there's repeating the same grade forever. How long you get to stay inside your own little version of "life" is up to you. You are your own God, your own slave, your own driver, your own punishment, your own obsession, your own......

Here's a simple test for that claim/logic/realization.
"Go out by yourself, deep into the middle of nowhere in the woods, sit on the ground, and close your eyes. Push away all observations—the birds chirping, the wind blowing, branches snapping, that ache in your knee.... You're safe and totally alone. Everything around you in the dark fades away. You aren't your thoughts, you aren't your pain, you aren't any physical sensation, you aren't even in your head, you aren't.... A hand, eyes snap open, the perception of a massive bear that—maybe it's just a frame of your imagination—is charging at you with a serious erection... figure it out..."

Who you are, how you feel, what you'll do, how you'll act... in that exact moment; that is who you are. Maybe you'll surprise yourself with some impossible (un)availability. Maybe not; but at least you tried.
Being primal. In the moment. "With yourself, inside yourself, outside yourself"... That's the only thing possible outside and within the burning, personal, mental model of yourself, your surroundings, your past, and your future.....

If we actually thought clearly and connected our emotions to our hearts properly, we'd finally find the path to the subconscious.

It feels like today, society has shifted into this weird systemic solution where people live at night and sleep during the day. At night, a different kind of energy hits the system. If we lose touch with these energies, it becomes so much harder to stay grounded in what actually matters.