140 years since the suicide of an ignored philosopher

hollowpuma762 said:Look, as long as you’ve got even a shred of a rational grasp on who you actually are—your thoughts, your feelings, whatever—you have way more control than all that nonsense suggests. This isn't *you*. It's just a state you're passing through. Just sit there and figure out what triggered the spiral and how to actually fix it.

I am being perfectly realistic and rational here; for me, this isn't nonsense, it is simply reality. I am fully aware that this feeling isn't my true essence. I am merely the skeleton, the dust, and the ashes. These physical bodies aren't truly "us"—that is just the way it is.

Gerald Hill said:There is plenty of literature on this subject, and you can easily find more information online.

My friend, do you realize that all the literature you're pointing to actually rests upon an even more foundational body of work? (And mind you, that core material is—well, let's just say—far more central to true efilists than anything you've mentioned.) But here's the thing... even that deeper stuff doesn't seem to be getting through to us. 😁

The issue here is that life lacks inherent meaning, and you’re using efilism to argue that death is actually the only thing that could provide purpose to existence, right?

People only started hunting for "meaning" once humans evolved, which makes it totally irrelevant to the actual survival of a species. Life keeps going regardless of whether some individual mind starts questioning why it's all happening. Death is fundamentally the opposite of living, and over billions of years of evolution, creatures have developed this rock-solid instinct to stay alive. It’s baked into us, just like hunger, sex, or sleep—this deep-seated drive that says you have to survive at any cost.

What efilists are basically calling for is the total abandonment of that survival instinct and the extinction of every living thing on Earth. I don't know how that lands with everyone else, but to me, it sounds way more extreme than even the worst kind of totalitarian regime. You can't even put it in the same category. Honestly, trying to fight against basic biological drives feels as futile as trying to argue with gravity.

Gerald Hill said:I am being perfectly realistic and rational here; for me, this isn't nonsense, it is simply reality. I am fully aware that this feeling isn't my true essence. I am merely the skeleton, the dust, and the ashes. These physical bodies aren't truly "us"—that is just the way it is.

You aren't being realistic, and you certainly aren't being rational. Honestly, you've been dropping posts for a while now that point toward a pretty unhealthy mental state.

You aren't your physical body, your emotions, or even your thoughts. You're the thing that *uses* them, and you're defined by how you choose to wield them. Right now? You aren't using them particularly wisely, but hey, there's always room to turn things around.

Laura Castillo6 said:The issue here is that life lacks inherent meaning, and you’re using efilism to argue that death is actually the only thing that could provide purpose to existence, right?

People only started hunting for "meaning" once humans evolved, which makes it totally irrelevant to the actual survival of a species. Life keeps going regardless of whether some individual mind starts questioning why it's all happening. Death is fundamentally the opposite of living, and over billions of years of evolution, creatures have developed this rock-solid instinct to stay alive. It’s baked into us, just like hunger, sex, or sleep—this deep-seated drive that says you have to survive at any cost.

What efilists are basically calling for is the total abandonment of that survival instinct and the extinction of every living thing on Earth. I don't know how that lands with everyone else, but to me, it sounds way more extreme than even the worst kind of totalitarian regime. You can't even put it in the same category. Honestly, trying to fight against basic biological drives feels as futile as trying to argue with gravity.

So why assume everything that isn't strictly necessary for survival is worthless? By that logic, humans aren't important either. Life could have happened without us. You could easily argue that life itself isn't important—the universe could have existed without life popping up, or it could have stayed empty. Why does existence even matter in the first place? If there's no objective meaning, then nothing actually matters. What you're saying here isn't much different from what Joe Biden is putting out.

ruggedraven36 said:So why assume everything that isn't strictly necessary for survival is worthless? By that logic, humans aren't important either. Life could have happened without us. You could easily argue that life itself isn't important—the universe could have existed without life popping up, or it could have stayed empty. Why does existence even matter in the first place? If there's no objective meaning, then nothing actually matters. What you're saying here isn't much different from what Joe Biden is putting out.

I didn't actually mention that anywhere.

Quincy:

Then I guess even the individual doesn't really matter anymore.

Honestly, when you really sit back and think about the sheer scale of things—like the existence of the Sun, the Moon, or even a Leo—we humans are pretty much irrelevant. It’s kind of humbling, isn't it? I was out walking my dog near downtown Seattle the other day, looking up at that massive sky, and it just hit me how much the universe keeps spinning regardless of what we're doing down here. We spend so much time worrying about our daily grind, but the cosmos doesn't care one bit.

Quincy:

Honestly, when you really sit back and think about it, life probably could have just carried on without us ever showing up. It’s one of those heavy thoughts that hits you when you're staring out a window or just having a quiet moment. We tend to act like we're the main characters of this whole planet, but nature has its own rhythm that doesn't really need our interference to keep spinning. If humans had never walked this earth, I like to imagine the forests would be thicker, the oceans much cleaner, and everything would just be moving along in this perfect, undisturbed balance. We’re just a tiny blip in a very long story.

I mean, it’s pretty much a given, isn't it? It’s been around for billions of years.

Quincy:

You know, you could also argue that life itself doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. The universe could have easily spun into existence without any biological life at all. In fact, it could just as easily have stayed a whole lot emptier. It makes you wonder—why does it even matter if anything exists in the first place? If there isn't some inherent meaning to it all, then... well, what are we even doing here? Nothing much to say on my end. Just hanging out. It doesn't really matter. What you wrote there... It’s pretty much the same thing as what Gerald Hill was saying earlier.

I feel like I’m repeating myself here, but bear with me: just because there isn't some grand, preordained purpose to everything doesn't mean life itself isn't real. It's a bit of a brain teaser, I know, but try to wrap your head around that for a second. It’s like being at a beautiful park in Seattle—you don't need a written manual explaining why the trees are growing or why the grass is green to appreciate that the park is actually there. Existence doesn't require a mission statement to be valid.

I'm actually on the same page as that user Omen here—it feels like nihilism is more of a byproduct of a depressive mindset rather than anything truly rational. It’s like when you're having one of those heavy weeks where everything just feels gray; suddenly, the idea that nothing matters starts to sound profound, but in reality, it's probably just the gloom talking. To me, true logic shouldn't be rooted in feeling stuck in a rut.

You know, I’ve been thinking lately that trying to pin down the "meaning of life" feels a bit like trying to describe what color a scent has. It’s one of those things that sounds deep when you say it out loud, but once you actually sit with it, it just sort of slips through your fingers. It’s like asking someone to tell you if a melody tastes like blue—it’s a beautiful thought, sure, but there isn't really a logical way to grasp it. We spend so much time searching for this grand, singular purpose, but maybe it’s more about just existing and enjoying the small stuff along the way.

Laura Castillo6 said:I didn't actually mention that anywhere.

Quincy:

Then I guess even the individual doesn't really matter anymore.

Honestly, when you really sit back and think about the sheer scale of things—like the existence of the Sun, the Moon, or even a Leo—we humans are pretty much irrelevant. It’s kind of humbling, isn't it? I was out walking my dog near downtown Seattle the other day, looking up at that massive sky, and it just hit me how much the universe keeps spinning regardless of what we're doing down here. We spend so much time worrying about our daily grind, but the cosmos doesn't care one bit.

Quincy:

Honestly, when you really sit back and think about it, life probably could have just carried on without us ever showing up. It’s one of those heavy thoughts that hits you when you're staring out a window or just having a quiet moment. We tend to act like we're the main characters of this whole planet, but nature has its own rhythm that doesn't really need our interference to keep spinning. If humans had never walked this earth, I like to imagine the forests would be thicker, the oceans much cleaner, and everything would just be moving along in this perfect, undisturbed balance. We’re just a tiny blip in a very long story.

I mean, it’s pretty much a given, isn't it? It’s been around for billions of years.

Quincy:

You know, you could also argue that life itself doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. The universe could have easily spun into existence without any biological life at all. In fact, it could just as easily have stayed a whole lot emptier. It makes you wonder—why does it even matter if anything exists in the first place? If there isn't some inherent meaning to it all, then... well, what are we even doing here? Nothing much to say on my end. Just hanging out. It doesn't really matter. What you wrote there... It’s pretty much the same thing as what Gerald Hill was saying earlier.

I feel like I’m repeating myself here, but bear with me: just because there isn't some grand, preordained purpose to everything doesn't mean life itself isn't real. It's a bit of a brain teaser, I know, but try to wrap your head around that for a second. It’s like being at a beautiful park in Seattle—you don't need a written manual explaining why the trees are growing or why the grass is green to appreciate that the park is actually there. Existence doesn't require a mission statement to be valid.

I'm actually on the same page as that user Omen here—it feels like nihilism is more of a byproduct of a depressive mindset rather than anything truly rational. It’s like when you're having one of those heavy weeks where everything just feels gray; suddenly, the idea that nothing matters starts to sound profound, but in reality, it's probably just the gloom talking. To me, true logic shouldn't be rooted in feeling stuck in a rut.

You know, I’ve been thinking lately that trying to pin down the "meaning of life" feels a bit like trying to describe what color a scent has. It’s one of those things that sounds deep when you say it out loud, but once you actually sit with it, it just sort of slips through your fingers. It’s like asking someone to tell you if a melody tastes like blue—it’s a beautiful thought, sure, but there isn't really a logical way to grasp it. We spend so much time searching for this grand, singular purpose, but maybe it’s more about just existing and enjoying the small stuff along the way.

I get it. Obviously, we exist. But what's the point of existing if there's no underlying reason for it all?

ruggedraven36 said:I get it. Obviously, we exist. But what's the point of existing if there's no underlying reason for it all?

It matters because we were wired with survival instincts. I don't see what part of that is confusing.

Are you asking why any of this matters to us personally? Is it just to grasp the nature of everything?

Gerald Hill said:There is plenty of literature on this subject, and you can easily find more information online.

Well, well, Gerald Hill, look who finally decided to show up. What's the word? 😁

You still breathing?

:klap:

Laura Castillo6 said:The issue here is that life lacks inherent meaning, and you’re using efilism to argue that death is actually the only thing that could provide purpose to existence, right?

People only started hunting for "meaning" once humans evolved, which makes it totally irrelevant to the actual survival of a species. Life keeps going regardless of whether some individual mind starts questioning why it's all happening. Death is fundamentally the opposite of living, and over billions of years of evolution, creatures have developed this rock-solid instinct to stay alive. It’s baked into us, just like hunger, sex, or sleep—this deep-seated drive that says you have to survive at any cost.

What efilists are basically calling for is the total abandonment of that survival instinct and the extinction of every living thing on Earth. I don't know how that lands with everyone else, but to me, it sounds way more extreme than even the worst kind of totalitarian regime. You can't even put it in the same category. Honestly, trying to fight against basic biological drives feels as futile as trying to argue with gravity.

We possess the capacity for thought and self-awareness, which is why some argue that if we follow purely rational conclusions based on the facts of our reality, we must accept efilism as the logical consequence of existential nihilism and pessimism.

Sandra Murphy33 said:Well, well, Gerald Hill, look who finally decided to show up. What's the word? 😁

You still breathing?

:klap:

I am alive, yet I feel utterly lifeless.

Gerald Hill said:I am alive, yet I feel utterly lifeless.

If you actually enjoy that state—if you’ve convinced yourself it’s the peak of logic and the only viable path forward—then you must be satisfied with it, right? (Meaning you believe you made the right call). 🙄

And if you truly find contentment in that choice, in this perpetual "going through the motions," then I suppose existing in a state of stagnation is your ultimate life goal...

Laura Castillo6 said:It matters because we were wired with survival instincts. I don't see what part of that is confusing.

Are you asking why any of this matters to us personally? Is it just to grasp the nature of everything?

Nothing is clear. Let me sum this up—life is meaningless. It’s not inherently significant; it’s just that *we* make it significant. We care because we have that hardwired survival instinct. But if that's the case, why bother doing anything at all besides just staying alive? Why even bother with evolution when even basic microbes have a drive to survive? You’ll probably hit me with some "Who says anything *needs* to happen? Things just are, period" nonsense. Well, things don't have to stay the way they are—they could be better. Isn't the whole point of life, and everything else for that matter, to actually make things better than they currently are?

Why does any of this matter to you? To understand the nature of everything.

I think it matters to anyone with even a passing interest in philosophy.

Sandra Murphy33 said:If you actually enjoy that state—if you’ve convinced yourself it’s the peak of logic and the only viable path forward—then you must be satisfied with it, right? (Meaning you believe you made the right call). 🙄

And if you truly find contentment in that choice, in this perpetual "going through the motions," then I suppose existing in a state of stagnation is your ultimate life goal...

It is possible, though I would argue it constitutes a surrender to futility.

ruggedraven36 said:Nothing is clear. Let me sum this up—life is meaningless. It’s not inherently significant; it’s just that *we* make it significant. We care because we have that hardwired survival instinct. But if that's the case, why bother doing anything at all besides just staying alive? Why even bother with evolution when even basic microbes have a drive to survive? You’ll probably hit me with some "Who says anything *needs* to happen? Things just are, period" nonsense. Well, things don't have to stay the way they are—they could be better. Isn't the whole point of life, and everything else for that matter, to actually make things better than they currently are?

Why does any of this matter to you? To understand the nature of everything.

I think it matters to anyone with even a passing interest in philosophy.

Exactly. You push yourself to make things better, even if that very effort ends up making things feel worse for a while. My main takeaway here is that choosing to end it all isn't a rational move.

Laura Castillo6 said:Exactly. You push yourself to make things better, even if that very effort ends up making things feel worse for a while. My main takeaway here is that choosing to end it all isn't a rational move.

I was just reacting to how you kicked things off—that "life has no meaning" bit. But honestly, whether life has a purpose or not, taking your own life is never a rational choice. So yeah, I'm totally with you on that.

Laura Castillo6 said:Exactly. You push yourself to make things better, even if that very effort ends up making things feel worse for a while. My main takeaway here is that choosing to end it all isn't a rational move.

I would be very interested to hear your reasoning on why it isn't rational; perhaps we could discuss that further if you are willing?

Gerald Hill said:It is possible, though I would argue it constitutes a surrender to futility.

If finding purpose in total hopelessness is your one true passion, then I suppose there isn't much I can say... "There is no accounting for taste."🤣
(English translation of Latin "There is no accounting for taste")

Sandra Murphy33 said:If finding purpose in total hopelessness is your one true passion, then I suppose there isn't much I can say... "There is no accounting for taste."🤣
(English translation of Latin "There is no accounting for taste")

No, but I don't go chasing after every little whim or hunting them down; I simply embrace them if the opportunity arises, and if not, I move on. For instance, one of my simple pleasures is having a cup of coffee paired with dark chocolate or perhaps some sweet croissants. I am not out here searching for anything extraordinary from life.

Gerald Hill said:I would be very interested to hear your reasoning on why it isn't rational; perhaps we could discuss that further if you are willing?

To me, rationality implies being sensible—having the capacity to think clearly and act according to logic.

From where I'm sitting, most cultures throughout history have pretty much accepted the idea that suicide isn't a rational act.

I’ll give you an argument: the survival instinct. Every animal on this planet is hardwired to fear death. Because of that, taking one's own life just doesn't feel rational. I mean, how can you claim an act is rational if the very core of your being is terrified of the outcome?

On the flip side, obviously, suicide does happen. But it usually occurs when a specific set of circumstances in someone's life all align at once, pushing them to that point.