Karen Richardson3 said:One more thing: I honestly find it pretty bizarre that American Catholics who actually live out their faith every single day—passing those values down to their kids through daily prayer and regular church attendance—would even feel the need for a 45-minute religion class at school twice a week.
And it’s weird (at least from my perspective as an atheist) that someone has to rack up a certain number of "participation points" for attending Mass just to qualify for First Communion or Confirmation. It almost makes it feel like going to Mass is some kind of chore or a penalty you have to serve, rather than a genuine celebration of faith.
In the context of a Catholic faith that's supposed to teach self-denial and humility, this whole topic feels totally out of place:
Why do we constantly feel this pressure to be politically correct?
Out of everyone who signs their kids up for religious education, maybe 20%* actually sit down with their children at home to pray before meals or read the Bible.
The rest of them seem to send their kids just so they can prove they aren't Mexicans or old-school communists.
From what I recall of the Bible, there isn't a single word in there about the historical struggles between Americans and Mexicans, no matter how much some American priests might try to spin it that way. 😁
* And honestly, I don't even think that percentage is that high, but you get my point.
Look, I'm with everyone else on this, but you're dead wrong here. Faith is just like anything else in life—it's something you're taught. You can sit a kid down at home and teach them their ABCs, math, or how to read a map... same goes for teaching them how to pray or use a rosary. But just like the English language is way more than just letters, and math is much more than just numbers, religion is about a hell of a lot more than just saying grace before dinner...
Yeah, should be.
But not at school, definitely not in the middle of class, and certainly not while people are actually paying attention...
First things first—been getting this stuff at home since forever...
After all that nonsense about collecting points, it’s not even about some kind of penalty. It's just how she lives out her faith through the core of it... attending Mass with her local parish.
Nobody ever admits that kids just don't always feel like showing up. I used to love my martial arts classes, but there were days I just couldn't deal because I was wiped out or my friends were all hanging out at the mall... Same thing with church. Sometimes I’d rather just sit there watching cartoons in the morning. It wasn't like I thought Mass was some kind of punishment. If you actually grew up with your faith, following tradition isn't a chore. If it feels like a punishment, then fine—don't bother with Sunday school, Mass, or First Communion. Just skip it. It's totally fine to miss service if you're not feeling it or if the timing just sucks. Look, instead of counting down to one single ceremony, there are basically fifty-seven different chances throughout the year to show up and get those points...
Not even a thing. My training sessions are always at the same damn time, too. Besides, there are plenty of masses throughout the week and on Sundays. If your church doesn't work for you, just find another one...
Look, you gotta be careful when you're talking about those little "plus" marks or moving up levels. It’s not just some participation trophy. If I sign up for an intensive language course to hit the next level, I actually have to pass an exam. Same thing with Taekwondo—you don't just get a new belt; you earn it. You want to move up a grade in school? You need solid grades. You want to play in a varsity basketball game? You better show up and grind at practice first. Even with stuff like a baptism, your parents and godparents are basically testifying for you... but once it comes to things like First Communion or Confirmation, that responsibility falls squarely on your shoulders. That’s why you need real prep work. And at the end of the day, it all goes back to the parents being the foundation of everything...
Lawrence Torres56 said:Thanks for sharing your thoughts!😉
So, what, I should just go ahead and become illiterate too? Is that the plan?🎉
Who on earth is bringing up politics and democracy here? Seriously... let’s just cut the crap and drop the insinuations and the political demagoguery, alright? Look, you don't have to agree with my take—that's your right—but why the hell the sudden accusations?😲😁
Look, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: we aren't actually going to be a true secular nation until we finally draw a hard line between the state and the church. Honestly, as long as we keep talking about separation while simultaneously leaning on phrases like "God willing" or keeping religious education in our public schools, all this talk about being a secular country is nothing more than empty noise. It's just pure theater, you know? Can we really claim to be separate when our very language and school systems are still wrapped up in religious tradition? To me, it's all just talk until we actually walk the walk.😉 And honestly, I just don't see any point in us clinging to something that isn't even true, you know? Why would we bother pretending when the facts are staring us right in the face?
Honestly, I don't even have an issue with most people, whether they belong to the majority or the minority groups out there.
I’m honestly just asking from a purely human perspective here—is this actually okay? Like, does it make any sense for twenty-two students and their twenty-two parents to all have to bend over backwards and adjust their entire lives around one or two people? We're talking about everyone having to coordinate afternoon trips to religious education classes twice a week, just because. Is it really reasonable to expect that many families to shift their schedules, or shouldn't those one or two people—and their parents—just stand their ground on their beliefs? Why can't they just let things be and not cause a whole scene while the kids are hanging out in the library during those classes? Seriously, which way is actually more practical or even remotely doable for everyone involved?
I mean, honestly, would the same people demanding all this from everyone else actually have the guts to say the exact same thing if the tables were turned tomorrow? Would they really stand by those same principles if they were the ones sitting in the hot seat instead of pointing fingers? It makes you wonder, doesn't it?
Look, I’m saying this with total sincerity here—and please, don't take this the wrong way because I'm really not trying to offend anyone—but I honestly get the feeling that if we just let kids be kids and actually let them make their own choices for once, this whole mess wouldn't even be an issue in the first place. Isn't it funny how we adults act like we're all about preaching tolerance from our high horses, while we're simultaneously the ones fueling all this intolerance and hatred? We're basically creating the very problems we claim to be fighting, aren't we?
So, is my kid actually going to go through with getting baptized, start talking about God, or whatever? Honestly, it’s not even on my radar, and it's definitely not something that's causing me any sleepless nights. I mean, let him do his thing, right? As long as he isn't out there hurting people or causing chaos, why should I care? It honestly cracks me up when people make such a massive production out of this stuff—like, why all the heavy drama and the intense scrutiny over something so personal?
It is honestly hilarious—like, laugh-out-loud ridiculous—that someone actually thinks they can strip away rights from an entire class of kids just because it doesn't suit their own kid or their personal agenda😉, right? I mean, where does this even end? Tomorrow, someone’s going to decide math is too difficult, so why not just scrap math altogether? Then it’ll be English lit next, and before you know it, we’re looking at the total abolition of the school system itself☕ because there will always be someone out there who’s unhappy with how things work.
My little one isn't going to participate in PE tomorrow because she’s got this cough and feels like she might be running a fever... so she’ll just be sitting on the sidelines watching everyone else play... and what am I supposed to do here, really? Should I go demand that the teacher or the school cancels PE for the whole damn class just so my child doesn't feel isolated or left out?
If you look at it through a certain lens, it’s the exact same headache we deal with regarding religious education, just applied to a different subject... and would it even be decent of me to make that demand? Even if, by some twisted logic, I technically have the right to ask for it?
Not cool, man. You’re quoting another one of my posts where I said I wouldn't send my kid to Islamic school just to end up living in a country that's already mostly Muslim...
I don't see how you can even call yourself a believer, let alone a parent, sending your kid to Sunday school...
Are you teaching a kid to completely lose their sense of self just because of where they happen to be living?
Doesn't matter if it's religion or whatever else.
Waving faith around isn't actual faith.
But faith isn't just "I'll teach them what everyone else learns."
And look, this is basically the whole problem with religious ed in public schools. You’d send your kid to a Catholic class just because everyone else is doing it. Someone else does the same with a different denomination just to fit in. I don't get how you guys don't see the issue here.
Lawrence Torres56 said:Thanks for sharing your thoughts!😉
So, what, I should just go ahead and become illiterate too? Is that the plan?🎉
Who on earth is bringing up politics and democracy here? Seriously... let’s just cut the crap and drop the insinuations and the political demagoguery, alright? Look, you don't have to agree with my take—that's your right—but why the hell the sudden accusations?😲😁
Look, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: we aren't actually going to be a true secular nation until we finally draw a hard line between the state and the church. Honestly, as long as we keep talking about separation while simultaneously leaning on phrases like "God willing" or keeping religious education in our public schools, all this talk about being a secular country is nothing more than empty noise. It's just pure theater, you know? Can we really claim to be separate when our very language and school systems are still wrapped up in religious tradition? To me, it's all just talk until we actually walk the walk.😉 And honestly, I just don't see any point in us clinging to something that isn't even true, you know? Why would we bother pretending when the facts are staring us right in the face?
Honestly, I don't even have an issue with most people, whether they belong to the majority or the minority groups out there.
I’m honestly just asking from a purely human perspective here—is this actually okay? Like, does it make any sense for twenty-two students and their twenty-two parents to all have to bend over backwards and adjust their entire lives around one or two people? We're talking about everyone having to coordinate afternoon trips to religious education classes twice a week, just because. Is it really reasonable to expect that many families to shift their schedules, or shouldn't those one or two people—and their parents—just stand their ground on their beliefs? Why can't they just let things be and not cause a whole scene while the kids are hanging out in the library during those classes? Seriously, which way is actually more practical or even remotely doable for everyone involved?
I mean, honestly, would the same people demanding all this from everyone else actually have the guts to say the exact same thing if the tables were turned tomorrow? Would they really stand by those same principles if they were the ones sitting in the hot seat instead of pointing fingers? It makes you wonder, doesn't it?
Look, I’m saying this with total sincerity here—and please, don't take this the wrong way because I'm really not trying to offend anyone—but I honestly get the feeling that if we just let kids be kids and actually let them make their own choices for once, this whole mess wouldn't even be an issue in the first place. Isn't it funny how we adults act like we're all about preaching tolerance from our high horses, while we're simultaneously the ones fueling all this intolerance and hatred? We're basically creating the very problems we claim to be fighting, aren't we?
So, is my kid actually going to go through with getting baptized, start talking about God, or whatever? Honestly, it’s not even on my radar, and it's definitely not something that's causing me any sleepless nights. I mean, let him do his thing, right? As long as he isn't out there hurting people or causing chaos, why should I care? It honestly cracks me up when people make such a massive production out of this stuff—like, why all the heavy drama and the intense scrutiny over something so personal?
It is honestly hilarious—like, laugh-out-loud ridiculous—that someone actually thinks they can strip away rights from an entire class of kids just because it doesn't suit their own kid or their personal agenda😉, right? I mean, where does this even end? Tomorrow, someone’s going to decide math is too difficult, so why not just scrap math altogether? Then it’ll be English lit next, and before you know it, we’re looking at the total abolition of the school system itself☕ because there will always be someone out there who’s unhappy with how things work.
My little one isn't going to participate in PE tomorrow because she’s got this cough and feels like she might be running a fever... so she’ll just be sitting on the sidelines watching everyone else play... and what am I supposed to do here, really? Should I go demand that the teacher or the school cancels PE for the whole damn class just so my child doesn't feel isolated or left out?
If you look at it through a certain lens, it’s the exact same headache we deal with regarding religious education, just applied to a different subject... and would it even be decent of me to make that demand? Even if, by some twisted logic, I technically have the right to ask for it?
Look, YOU—and no other parent for that matter—aren't dragging 19 kids to school. You're only responsible for your own kid (or two, or three...). So technically, it's the exact same deal for you as it is for the parent whose kid isn't taking the class: coordinating an afternoon arrival for any elective. You aren't the majority since you don't have 10 kids in the class. Not all parents in a grade work at the same company, take the same bus, or even live in the same neighborhood. You're acting like an individual. It's pretty embarrassing to preach a faith that's supposed to promote equality, caring for neighbors, and loving your friends while holding these kinds of views.
Alexander Ortiz3 said:Often, religious education instructors teach across multiple schools to build up enough hours for a full schedule, and frequently, there is only one instructor per school. How is that single teacher supposed to teach every grade during the first or last period if there are more classes than available slots—not to mention if they're traveling between different schools? In many cases, scheduling religious studies for the first or last period is simply technically impossible.
The issue lies entirely with the Department of Education; they have essentially left students who don't participate in religious studies to fend for themselves. In high schools, this is resolved by offering Ethics and Religion as a subject.
Why this hasn't been organized similarly in elementary schools is anyone's guess. It's possible the government finds it too expensive to pay ethics teachers when dealing with very small groups of students. Regardless, those interested should put pressure on the Department of Education to ensure adequate supervision for all students not attending religious studies, no matter the cost. Why Ethics and Religion aren't offered in elementary schools remains the real question.
Are you some religious ed teacher terrified for your job because fewer kids are showing up, and the ones who do are only there because they have to be?
Asking because I don't see any other reason for this kind of talk.
Exactly, most religious ed teachers do cover several schools. Wouldn't it be easier to just bring the kids from the same district to a church and knock out a solid 6-7 hour block? No driving between schools, no sitting in traffic, no 19 miles idling in the car between campuses and home? I don't get it, common sense says that's the easier way.
Even if it wasn't at a church, even if it was at the school during an off-shift like every other elective, wouldn't that still be easier to organize?
Why even bring up Ethics?
Alexander Ortiz3 said:When I say 90%, I’m talking about the rough percentage of school-aged kids enrolled in religious education classes. It tends to be slightly higher during elementary school and dips a bit during high school, but there isn't really any massive deviation from that figure.
Now, how many of those students and their families actually practice their faith on a daily basis is an entirely different conversation. You see all sorts of examples—kids from non-religious households finding their way toward faith, and others moving in the opposite direction.
Personally, I am strongly against forcing anyone to attend religious classes; that would be terrible. At the same time, I don't believe anyone should be discouraged or blocked from attending if they want to.
Choosing to opt out of religious studies just to follow a fad is honestly ridiculous. I don't even know what to say about parents who just chase after fleeting trends... though I doubt there are many like that. Who would actually send their child to listen to something they consider "bad" just because it's trendy?
The only downside I see here is that the government hasn't organized ethics classes in elementary schools the way they have in high schools, which leads to these issues with unsupervised free periods.
Furthermore, I’ve never heard the vast majority of people who choose religious education calling for it to be made mandatory for everyone. On the flip side, you constantly hear complaints from the minority who don't want it, often leading to calls to ban religious education for everyone, including those who actually want it. As for those parents who care more about neighborhood gossip than their own child's well-being, it's probably best not to even engage with them.
Looking at parental guidance, many parents don't bother teaching their children how to read or do basic math, yet they still send them to school to learn those things.
The bottom line is this: religious education is strictly voluntary. There are no negative consequences for those who choose not to participate. Trying to get into the specific reasons why someone chooses one faith over another—or none at all—is a complicated rabbit hole.
The only real issue is the gap in the schedule during those free periods, and the responsibility lies solely with the state to organize something for them. No one else can step in to handle that, and it's certainly not up to the Church to manage public school schedules.
P.S. According to official data from the 2011 Census, over 90% of Americans identify with various religious denominations, while atheists and agnostics make up less than 10%. Various religious organizations can organize these classes in accordance with parental interests.
I have to admit, I didn't quite follow your point about the "excessive Mass." I assume you're referring to the Roman Catholic Church. The truth is, nobody can force you to send your child to any religious service. If you do choose to send them, then you have to accept the rules of the religious community you selected for your child. Otherwise, find another one. We live in a free country.
If a parent views a religious rite as senseless or unnecessary, I truly wonder why they would expose their own children to something they hold such a negative opinion about.
1. Yeah, true. I'm one of those people. No one in my house goes to church—honestly, I don't even think they know how to make the Sign of the Cross properly. I went to religious ed because I chose to. I did my First Communion and Confirmation because I wanted to. I stayed in the community by choice. I never told my friends they had to cross themselves before eating, and I never told anyone they were going to hell just because they didn't pray with me. I never spoke ill of anyone at home either.
2. It's not some trend. I don't think we're anywhere near that. There's nothing "trendy" about kids doing religious ed. They go because they just go. Because their friends go. Because the older folks went. They go so they aren't stuck in the hallway, or because their best friend is enrolled. It's easier to just drift with the current than fight it. And then you get the double lessons, the Masses where participation is forced, sacraments that the parents don't even understand...
3. Let me give you a different perspective. I worked on the 2010 Census. I wasn't just crunching numbers behind a desk; I was out door-to-door, actually talking to people. I talked to about 1,100 people. Want to know how people answer questions about religion?
"Write whatever you want." (And since I can't do that, I just write 'declined to state')
"Uh... just put Catholic."
"Just so they don't think we're [Group X]."
"Write whatever everyone else writes."
"Wait, what's the deal with the President?"
I'll be listing their kids (who aren't there) and asking if they want me to include them. Parents will say, "Put Catholic for him too, he doesn't care..." Then the kid pops up at the door (even though I hadn't written anything yet) and says, "Put agnostic."
Honestly, I'm embarrassed by those Catholics, by believers in general. It's embarrassing that they claim to belong to the same community I do.
And no, statistics like that aren't a real reflection of what's happening in the country.
4. As for the "extra Mass," that's for me. My main Mass is the youth Mass held in our parish in the evening. But I want to help these little kids see Mass the way I saw it—the reason why I decided to stay. (I don't have kids of my own). So I show up to the extra 9 AM Mass to project song lyrics on the wall, to help the teachers engage the kids, to help with the music and the new altar servers... You know why so many people show up to that specific Mass (besides the ones who attend for themselves)? Because parents just drop their kids off in the church parking lot and pick them up after.
My parents (people who don't even know how to cross themselves) were at almost every Sunday Mass with me. They didn't get why I cared, but they saw I was interested in something, and they backed me up. Just like they showed up to my soccer games even though they didn't know a single rule of the sport.
That bolded part right there? That’s the whole reason parents sign their kids up for religious ed in the first place. If a parent doesn't see the point of Mass, Sunday school, First Communion, or all those Holy Week services—what's the kid even supposed to get out of religious class? Or the stuff they do at school? Look, if they can't wrap their heads around the logic, fine, they don't have to "get" it... but if they see their kid finding meaning in it, why fight it? Just let them be.
If you're a religious education teacher, I'd love to see some actual stats or even just what parents really think about everything their kids are forced to go through before receiving their sacraments.
