Religion classes in school - Megathread

mellowskipper said:But what exactly happened in that first lesson to upset him so much?

It’s just the lyrics, you know? Like, God created everything we see, right? But this kid... he’s got his own little set of beliefs already. He’s obsessed with geography and basically anything out in space—we’ve gone through enough encyclopedias on the subject that I can tell you he's hooked.
I know, I know, it sounds totally mental to say a seven-year-old is out here having his own deep convictions, but honestly, he really does.

Richard Morris43 said:It’s just the lyrics, you know? Like, God created everything we see, right? But this kid... he’s got his own little set of beliefs already. He’s obsessed with geography and basically anything out in space—we’ve gone through enough encyclopedias on the subject that I can tell you he's hooked.
I know, I know, it sounds totally mental to say a seven-year-old is out here having his own deep convictions, but honestly, he really does.

Look, it’s fine. It’s actually great that she has those beliefs.
But you have to go in assuming that during religion class, she’s going to be taught that God created the universe, rather than being given scientific explanations.
For instance, back when my daughter was in second grade, she told me she understood that the Bible is mostly metaphorical—that it shouldn't be taken literally, but rather viewed as a collection of fables meant to convey a moral or a message.
If you guys are atheists, there really isn't a need to force her to sit through religion class; there’s always some way to work around it, and I doubt she’s the only kid in the class facing that situation.

Richard Morris43 said:The whole mess boils down to this: if a kid isn't enrolled in those religious studies classes at school, they can't take communion, and eventually, they can't even graduate or move up the social ladder within the community.
So, effectively, the church uses these milestones to hold people's hands, right? Because let's face it, most families still give a damn about their kids hitting those traditional milestones and sacraments.

If you want a real fix, you have to get religious instruction out of the public school system entirely—that's the only way, but let's be real, that’s never going to happen in this country.

My kid started first grade this year, and right when I was filling out the enrollment paperwork, I checked the box for religious education.
Why? Honestly, because I didn't want him just wandering the hallways or stuck in some empty classroom while everyone else was busy.
Everything seemed fine until that first class actually happened. After he got home, he absolutely lost it, telling me he couldn't sit through that stuff and that we couldn't possibly wait until the end of the school year to pull him out.
He was genuinely distraught.
And look, it wasn't even the teacher's fault; it was the actual material being taught that just clashed so hard with how his little mind was starting to work.
To be totally honest, I had no clue it would hit him that hard.

I took him straight to the office to unenroll him immediately, even though it was the very beginning of the term. They told me normally you have to wait until the end of the year, but they made an exception for us.

In the end, it worked out fine; there are plenty of other kids who don't attend those classes, so the school has ways to keep them occupied during that period anyway.

This keeps coming up, along with the follow-up question: why on earth would anyone want their child to participate in the graduation or communion if they aren't willing to attend the religious classes? 😁

In theory, separating the kids sounds bad, but from what I've seen with my own daughter and most people I know, it actually works out fine for the kids who skip those classes.

Richard Morris43 said:The whole mess boils down to this: if a kid isn't enrolled in those religious studies classes at school, they can't take communion, and eventually, they can't even graduate or move up the social ladder within the community.
So, effectively, the church uses these milestones to hold people's hands, right? Because let's face it, most families still give a damn about their kids hitting those traditional milestones and sacraments.

If you want a real fix, you have to get religious instruction out of the public school system entirely—that's the only way, but let's be real, that’s never going to happen in this country.

My kid started first grade this year, and right when I was filling out the enrollment paperwork, I checked the box for religious education.
Why? Honestly, because I didn't want him just wandering the hallways or stuck in some empty classroom while everyone else was busy.
Everything seemed fine until that first class actually happened. After he got home, he absolutely lost it, telling me he couldn't sit through that stuff and that we couldn't possibly wait until the end of the school year to pull him out.
He was genuinely distraught.
And look, it wasn't even the teacher's fault; it was the actual material being taught that just clashed so hard with how his little mind was starting to work.
To be totally honest, I had no clue it would hit him that hard.

I took him straight to the office to unenroll him immediately, even though it was the very beginning of the term. They told me normally you have to wait until the end of the year, but they made an exception for us.

In the end, it worked out fine; there are plenty of other kids who don't attend those classes, so the school has ways to keep them occupied during that period anyway.

And why on earth should the government care that the church thinks the state needs to step up and handle its business?

Church problems belong to the church. They created this mess themselves; they can fix it themselves.

What if the government passed a law saying the church had to organize all the driving lessons for getting a driver's license?

rowdypanther12 said:This keeps coming up, along with the follow-up question: why on earth would anyone want their child to participate in the graduation or communion if they aren't willing to attend the religious classes? 😁

In theory, separating the kids sounds bad, but from what I've seen with my own daughter and most people I know, it actually works out fine for the kids who skip those classes.

Because any unnecessary activity is just a waste of time. Besides, kids managed to hit those milestones perfectly fine long before religious education was baked into the public school system, so...

Jesse Cook4 said:And why on earth should the government care that the church thinks the state needs to step up and handle its business?

Church problems belong to the church. They created this mess themselves; they can fix it themselves.

What if the government passed a law saying the church had to organize all the driving lessons for getting a driver's license?

Because any unnecessary activity is just a waste of time. Besides, kids managed to hit those milestones perfectly fine long before religious education was baked into the public school system, so...

But honestly, why would I even want my child to take communion? I have no interest in the rituals of a religion I don't follow.
If I actually belonged to that faith, of course I'd want my child to learn about it.🤷

rowdypanther12 said:But honestly, why would I even want my child to take communion? I have no interest in the rituals of a religion I don't follow.
If I actually belonged to that faith, of course I'd want my child to learn about it.🤷

Exactly.

If the Church had tried to expand by forcing people to sit around reading ancient texts and passing exams, they wouldn't have gotten very far...

Religious education today is just forced indoctrination for a shrinking flock—it's basically a survival tactic to keep the Church relevant.

Jesse Cook4 said:And why on earth should the government care that the church thinks the state needs to step up and handle its business?

Church problems belong to the church. They created this mess themselves; they can fix it themselves.

What if the government passed a law saying the church had to organize all the driving lessons for getting a driver's license?

Because any unnecessary activity is just a waste of time. Besides, kids managed to hit those milestones perfectly fine long before religious education was baked into the public school system, so...

The state and the church are basically joined at the hip here in America. It’s a damn shame, honestly, but that's just the reality of how things work around here.

rowdypanther12 said:This keeps coming up, along with the follow-up question: why on earth would anyone want their child to participate in the graduation or communion if they aren't willing to attend the religious classes? 😁

In theory, separating the kids sounds bad, but from what I've seen with my own daughter and most people I know, it actually works out fine for the kids who skip those classes.

Honestly, it's mostly just parents wanting to throw a big party and kids wanting cool gifts. 🙂

rowdypanther12 said:This keeps coming up, along with the follow-up question: why on earth would anyone want their child to participate in the graduation or communion if they aren't willing to attend the religious classes? 😁

In theory, separating the kids sounds bad, but from what I've seen with my own daughter and most people I know, it actually works out fine for the kids who skip those classes.

Most schools really try to make sure those kids aren't just left wandering the halls, but even if they are, they actually tend to have a blast and don't feel like they're wasting their time.
Plus, there's nothing quite like the feeling of getting to sleep in a little longer, or having one less test to study for or fewer heavy textbooks to lug around.

In my experience, the only real downside is when they get stuck with a gap in their schedule and can't leave campus, especially if they have sports or other activities scheduled right after. It makes it pretty tough to grab a decent meal.

Catholic numbers dropping from 86% down to 78%

So this is what happens when you teach religion in schools and let atheists run wild

It needs to drop even lower

Pathetic

Slowly, they’ll fall. It's just a matter of when, though I doubt it’ll be anytime soon.

Naturally, as one declines, the other rises. Expect more hours dedicated to religious studies, likely at the expense of math, chemistry, and physics.

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Kids are just sitting out in the hallways, sometimes even hanging out in the library instead of being in class.
I just wanted to say that seeing this is honestly pretty degrading.
It really speaks volumes about the people calling the shots—from the local school board and the state department down to the teachers who just walk right past those kids sitting on the floor without saying a word.
I seriously don't get how anyone can look at this and not feel a little bit ashamed.

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So, what exactly is it that these teachers—the ones you're saying should be feeling some serious shame—are actually supposed to do?
I mean, at the end of the day, the principal is the one getting paid to keep the whole school running smoothly.

Sarah Hall53 said:So, what exactly is it that these teachers—the ones you're saying should be feeling some serious shame—are actually supposed to do?
I mean, at the end of the day, the principal is the one getting paid to keep the whole school running smoothly.

Maybe someone could gently point out to him that his take isn't really hitting the mark?

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- To the Principal: isn't it just appalling that kids are stuck out in the hallway during religion class?
- Colleagues, if you're feeling the frustration, join me in taking this up with the School Board.

And what if the principal happens to be a theologian who teaches religion classes? There’s definitely an opening for that...

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Kenneth Brown5 said:Kids are just sitting out in the hallways, sometimes even hanging out in the library instead of being in class.
I just wanted to say that seeing this is honestly pretty degrading.
It really speaks volumes about the people calling the shots—from the local school board and the state department down to the teachers who just walk right past those kids sitting on the floor without saying a word.
I seriously don't get how anyone can look at this and not feel a little bit ashamed.

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They just don't care, so they can't really feel any shame or even realize that what they're doing is demeaning.🤷
Though, to be fair, sitting in the library isn't necessarily humiliating for everyone; some of the kids actually seem to enjoy it.

The school really needs to take responsibility for where these kids end up, but if I were in charge, I’d start with the homeroom teachers or department heads.
The principal should be the one ensuring there's adequate space and managing the master schedule (which could easily be adjusted by moving classes to first or last period—it's just a little bit of math).
Plus, the principal needs to have the backbone to stand up to both the local Diocese and the Department of Education to ensure groups are combined properly. Even when you add up all the classes, groups should stay between 15 and 26 students, especially when dealing with after-school programs or language electives.

If I were a religious studies teacher, I would be mortified to be teaching a class of only 5 or 8 students—maybe 17 across the entire school—while my colleague in the breakroom teaching elective German or French has merged classes of 18, or even 20 for elective English. That makes the scheduling much harder for everyone involved since you're juggling more grade levels.
In the very same school.

Personally, I'd be embarrassed.
If not because of that phrase often found in religious textbooks: "God is just." 🥳
Because in that faculty lounge, it's a perfect example of how we claim everyone is equal, yet some are treated as "more equal" than others.
"I'm getting paid the same while I basically play school with a handful of kids," is the vibe. 👋
Meanwhile, somewhere else in the building, a math teacher is struggling through a class of 20 or 28 students....

nimblelynx7 said:And what if the principal happens to be a theologian who teaches religion classes? There’s definitely an opening for that...

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Extremely slim. But the number of people actually paying attention to how religious instructors are positioned is growing—which means this kind of thing will become harder and harder to pull off.

Honestly, you show up here almost exclusively with arguments that would be tossed out of any decent logical debate. You're stacking logical fallacies before you even finish making your point.

It feels a lot like trolling, doesn't it? It adds nothing to the discussion. Why don't you go ahead and pull some actual statistics showing how many religious teachers hold administrative roles, and then explain how that percentage represents the whole picture? Please.

In larger schools, you can manipulate the schedule. In smaller ones? Not a chance. If there's no practical way to make it work, you might as well complain to the local water department. I find myself muttering the same thing every year when I see my kids' schedules. And mine, too—especially seeing that gaping hole where my teaching hour should have been instead of religion class...

Jose Wells3 said:Extremely slim. But the number of people actually paying attention to how religious instructors are positioned is growing—which means this kind of thing will become harder and harder to pull off.

Honestly, you show up here almost exclusively with arguments that would be tossed out of any decent logical debate. You're stacking logical fallacies before you even finish making your point.

It feels a lot like trolling, doesn't it? It adds nothing to the discussion. Why don't you go ahead and pull some actual statistics showing how many religious teachers hold administrative roles, and then explain how that percentage represents the whole picture? Please.

In larger schools, you can manipulate the schedule. In smaller ones? Not a chance. If there's no practical way to make it work, you might as well complain to the local water department. I find myself muttering the same thing every year when I see my kids' schedules. And mine, too—especially seeing that gaping hole where my teaching hour should have been instead of religion class...

I'm not seeing much "awareness" regarding religious education, let alone anyone actually doing anything about it.

Jose Wells3 said:Extremely slim. But the number of people actually paying attention to how religious instructors are positioned is growing—which means this kind of thing will become harder and harder to pull off.

Honestly, you show up here almost exclusively with arguments that would be tossed out of any decent logical debate. You're stacking logical fallacies before you even finish making your point.

It feels a lot like trolling, doesn't it? It adds nothing to the discussion. Why don't you go ahead and pull some actual statistics showing how many religious teachers hold administrative roles, and then explain how that percentage represents the whole picture? Please.

In larger schools, you can manipulate the schedule. In smaller ones? Not a chance. If there's no practical way to make it work, you might as well complain to the local water department. I find myself muttering the same thing every year when I see my kids' schedules. And mine, too—especially seeing that gaping hole where my teaching hour should have been instead of religion class...

There are 27 in elementary schools. Out of 878 total schools. That's 3.07%.
Only 8 in high schools out of 378. So, roughly 2 percent.

nimblelynx7 said:I'm not seeing much "awareness" regarding religious education, let alone anyone actually doing anything about it.

There are 27 in elementary schools. Out of 878 total schools. That's 3.07%.
Only 8 in high schools out of 378. So, roughly 2 percent.

Exactly. Two or three percent tops.

Now, try this: strip away those few administrators who happen to be genuinely great leaders despite the religious curriculum and hold progressive views. And if you don't count private religious academies, the percentage in public secular schools is even lower.

What do you think we can actually do here?

I'm being serious.

Jose Wells3 said:Exactly. Two or three percent tops.

Now, try this: strip away those few administrators who happen to be genuinely great leaders despite the religious curriculum and hold progressive views. And if you don't count private religious academies, the percentage in public secular schools is even lower.

What do you think we can actually do here?

I'm being serious.

And honestly, having even a single secular school run by a priest as principal feels like quite a bit. He can hold whatever "progressive" views he wants, I suppose, but at the end of the day, his primary accountability is to the Diocese. His fundamental job is to raise kids within the framework of the faith, which, in my view, just isn't compatible with a secular mission.