Religion classes in school - Megathread

Nancy Kelly31 said:And when is the math remedial scheduled for those students enrolled in religious studies? I would be absolutely incensed by such a "solution"... ☕ It carries the implicit suggestion that children in religious education are somehow more intellectually gifted than their peers—as if these poor souls require extra help, while the others are apparently sharp enough to grasp everything on the first try. 😛

Actually, I think it implies the non-religious kids are twice as smart, since this is framed as extra credit or enrichment—basically, it's for those who want to go above and beyond.
The school will organize tutoring regardless.

And don't worry, if anyone is being left out here, it's just the kid sitting alone in the hallway after school.

Plus, what are the kids who don't take religion supposed to do? They don't need tutoring, but they shouldn't be left without any enrichment either, right?
What are they doing during those four hours at school? Especially for the kids in the after-school program who can't head home early. Even if it's just the last period of the day, they still need something productive to do.

I didn't mean to push for answers. Honestly, asking would just put me on the defensive, and frankly, whether my kid attends religion class or stays in the hallway isn't really my concern—the school's organization is their responsibility, not mine.
It feels like they lumped all us "troublemakers" together in the same classroom where the teacher is willing to look after the kids.😍

http://news.yahoo.com/lifestyle/priest-threatening-families-over-school-choices

(My apologies if someone has already shared this link.)
To put it briefly, a local priest is issuing written threats to parents and their high school students. He’s essentially telling them that if they choose to enroll in an ethics course instead of religious studies, or if they fail to attend Mass, he will refuse to authorize them to serve as godparents in the future.

William Bennett53 said:http://news.yahoo.com/lifestyle/priest-threatening-families-over-school-choices

(My apologies if someone has already shared this link.)
To put it briefly, a local priest is issuing written threats to parents and their high school students. He’s essentially telling them that if they choose to enroll in an ethics course instead of religious studies, or if they fail to attend Mass, he will refuse to authorize them to serve as godparents in the future.

I’ve actually seen this one before.
🤣
I think Tomic gave a pretty blunt response to this (even though it wasn't directly about this, more about Blankie).

When I really sit down and think about it, it’s honestly sad that they feel the need to resort to threats.
It shouldn't be about coercion; it should be about free will and making a choice.
I was just thinking—what if a parent tells the school they want their kid to take extra math tutoring instead of religion? That poor teacher would be absolutely losing it! 😢

Just as a quick comparison: back in the late eighties, I used to go to religious education at my local parish. We met twice a week, either before or after school. Personally, I look back on it as such a lovely experience—the conversations were great, and there were so many games, songs, and laughs.
Since I was also taking rhythm and ballet classes, the schedules sometimes overlapped when school was in the afternoon. There were times I’d miss a session or join an older group instead. I never had any issues or felt threatened. In fact, I didn't even have to join the older group in the mornings, but I thought it was pretty cool.

Susan James said:Actually, I think it implies the non-religious kids are twice as smart, since this is framed as extra credit or enrichment—basically, it's for those who want to go above and beyond.
The school will organize tutoring regardless.

And don't worry, if anyone is being left out here, it's just the kid sitting alone in the hallway after school.

Plus, what are the kids who don't take religion supposed to do? They don't need tutoring, but they shouldn't be left without any enrichment either, right?
What are they doing during those four hours at school? Especially for the kids in the after-school program who can't head home early. Even if it's just the last period of the day, they still need something productive to do.

Back when I was in elementary school, there were about seven or eight of us who didn't attend religion class. I recall that during the first year or two, the class was scheduled right in the middle of the day, so we would spend those one or two hours in a separate classroom across from the principal's office. The principal kept a close eye on us—we couldn't really get away with much or make a scene—so we just played together or worked on our homework. Eventually, they moved the religion classes to either the first or last period, which meant we either arrived at school later or left earlier.

At that time, nobody made a fuss because there were several of us, so it wasn't just one isolated kid, and we were always under some form of supervision. My school only had a morning session for all eight grades, anyway. I remember some students arriving well before 8:00 AM and being supervised by one of the teachers. There was a great deal of understanding toward parents who couldn't adjust their work schedules to fit the school's timing; they always found reasonable solutions for cases where kids had to arrive early or stay late (even beyond the standard after-school program).

It seems somewhat absurd to me that the question of what to do with children who opt out of religion class hasn't been resolved by now.

I took religion classes all through elementary and middle school. It was rarely ever our first or last period, either. We only had two kids in my class who didn't take it back in elementary school, and they mostly just spent those periods wandering the halls. The reason they signed me up was pretty straightforward—it counted toward my sacraments, so there wasn't any need to attend extra church-run classes. But then they changed the rules, saying you had to go to additional parish classes twice a week after school at the church for confirmation. High school handled it way better, though. They organized classes based on whether students chose religion or ethics. Basically, the whole class would go to one or the other together. I think that’s the best way to do it, assuming there are enough kids choosing the non-religious track. That way, nobody gets stuck with an awkward schedule, except maybe the teacher who loses some teaching hours.

Regarding religious discrimination... we all know the drill.
But honestly, it’s different for everyone, so you can't just paint everyone with the same brush.
I went to elementary school in a tiny town where everyone knew everyone else's business. When I started first grade back in '94, it was common knowledge that I had been baptized much later than the rest of my classmates. Most kids in my group were baptized right after birth—back in the late eighties before '91. My parents were actually pretty rare in that area because they had both been members of the Democratic Party back in the day. Mom made sure I was baptized just to avoid any drama at school; back then, it was basically unheard of to skip religion class.
In first grade, I had Sofia as my teacher. Not only did she tank my GPA by constantly giving me failing grades in religion, but she also clearly took her grudge out on all thirty kids in the room. And kids? They follow whoever is in charge. It didn't stop me from passing first grade with straight As, though. Religion was the only subject where I couldn't pull off an A. She actually tried to drag my grade down to a C. There’s no way I was dim enough to ace Math and English but fail religion. I think my main teacher stepped in, though. She probably thought it was insane that among all my As, I had such a low mark in religion. Somehow, thanks to that intervention, my grade miraculously jumped from a C in the first semester to a B or an A in the second, letting me pass with the As I actually earned.

Back then, religion held massive sway in my hometown. The Church and its people had power like something out of the Middle Ages. Those classes were awful. Sofia would belittle me in front of everyone... and I could feel the eyes of the other kids on me. They looked at me with such contempt, and they seemed genuinely thrilled whenever Sofia slapped another failing grade in my book, usually accompanied by some loud comment for the whole class to hear.

Life isn't black and white, though. After first grade, Sofia moved on. In second grade, I got Mary. Now, Mary knew a few things about me and my family, but she focused on what actually mattered. She knew our situation: my dad was disabled, my mom was partially disabled, and we were struggling. We were poor. One priest used to visit us every week, bringing fruit and sweets for me. Mary knew all this, so she brought me into the church choir. Every time I showed up, she’d quietly tell me to head to the kitchen so they could give me a snack, because I was often hungry and it showed.

Mary basically rebuilt my reputation and pulled me back into a community where I had been totally isolated.

Luckily, kids don't just follow bad authority figures; they follow the good ones too.

Teachers held so much weight in shaping kids back then. I still believe that holds true today, at least while kids are young.

The reason I say this is because bullying or discrimination from other kids doesn't always stem from how they were raised at home; it often comes from how the primary authority figure at school presents them.

Interesting

The proof is right there in how most elementary schools are set up. Religious studies is basically baked right into the regular daily schedule, while almost all other elective subjects require students to switch to a different shift. It’s a real headache for kids who didn't sign up for religious education when it gets slotted right in the middle of their day or first thing in the morning. Honestly, it seems like a lot of principals just look the other way because they don't want any friction with the local church leadership here in America.

It seems like keeping things smooth with the church takes priority over actually looking out for the kids.🙏
Based on Christian teachings, this isn't right at all. I’m also pretty certain that Jesus would be ashamed of this situation.

From the conversations I've had with parents—and I've heard quite a few lately, especially during birthday parties for the preschool crowd and chatting with neighbors near the local schools—a lot of them feel awkward about being pressured to attend Mass on Sundays. They haven't really done that in years and wouldn't necessarily go, unless it was just to show their kid what a service looks like.
Only a couple of people were actually "brave" enough to unenroll their child entirely since they don't attend Mass and have no intention of starting.
I really hope that in the future, when enrolling a child in religious education, schools start asking for (and requiring a signature for) which parish the family belongs to, whether they actually attend Sunday services, and if they plan to continue.
Maybe then we'd see fewer kids signed up for it.

I honestly don't get how they can't see why going to church is worth the effort🤷

Regarding this letter... it feels genuinely malicious. Truly. There’s absolutely no reason for them to be upset just because it’s the first or last service meant to make things easier for the kids. It's just mean-spirited

rowdypanther12 said:I honestly don't get how they can't see why going to church is worth the effort🤷

Regarding this letter... it feels genuinely malicious. Truly. There’s absolutely no reason for them to be upset just because it’s the first or last service meant to make things easier for the kids. It's just mean-spirited

I feel the exact same way.
To be honest, I was being pretty sarcastic earlier when I said that if you're someone who attends Mass every single Sunday, it's perfectly normal to have your child attend religious studies at school. But then people started trying to convince me that school classes aren't the same thing as parish services.☕

There are even non-religious kids attending those classes🤣. I mean, what's the harm? They might hear something new, something they don't get to hear at home, and who knows where they'll be during those hours anyway. Personally, I think hearing something different is fine, but the subject isn't regional studies—it's Catholic religious education. (Though, if it were an option, I’d probably sign up for religion myself once I hit high school and start developing more abstract thinking skills.)

I'm honestly just going through with it. I think people are mostly afraid their kids won't be "properly raised"
If they already feel like religious studies doesn't cover everything important anyway, or if they just don't buy into the old stories, I can see why they'd sign them up.
I find it hard to believe anyone would enroll their child if they felt the exact same way I do about what kids are actually taught in those classes.🤷

I wonder if any American pop stars are actually lurking on this forum? 🤣

Most people probably would, though perhaps they'd turn to Politics or the Journal rather than Laughing.

Is our country even functioning if government officials can just take orders from priests whenever they feel like it? We’re honestly becoming a bit of a joke...

Think about it—we’re all basically footing the bill for an institution that spends its time belittling women, attacking anyone with a different opinion, and telling atheists they're headed straight to hell. Not to mention how they cover up for predators in their own ranks while manipulating kids. Is there any limit to this nonsense? 😝

If Americans actually had to pay a church tax right away, the percentage of Catholics would plummet from 85% down to like 10%—and honestly, that’s probably the real number of Catholics in the US anyway.

amary said:We could argue about this forever, but it’s pretty obvious the Catholic Church has already started acting like its own sovereign government.

People actually have the chance to opt their kids out of religion classes if they have the guts to pull the trigger:

[Full Name] [Address]
[Zip Code and City]
[Name of School]
[Optional: Name of Contact Person] [Address]
[Zip Code and City]

D R A F T

OPTING OUT OF RELIGIOUS STUDIES

To whom it may concern,
according to contract regarding cooperation on education and culture between Washington, D.C. and the United States, I am formally notifying you of the withdrawal of my child, [Full Name], who will be attending
[ordinal number] grade with the elective subject of religious studies this school year.
I do not want my child participating in denominational religious instruction because [ the curriculum conflicts with my beliefs / denominational teaching involves a biased and non-objective approach to religion / I believe the time spent in these classes could be used more intelligently].
In accordance with current laws and recommendations from the U.S. Department of Education and the Child Advocate, I hope that
the school will organize meaningful and substantive activities for students who aren't in religious studies and find themselves with 'gaps' in their school schedule.

Also, just a reminder that I don't consent to my child staying in the classroom during religious studies, as that interferes with my child's right to freedom of worldview. I'm available for any further questions, suggestions, or discussions.

Best regards,

[Signature]

👍

Complete this before the school year starts and submit three copies.

Religion in preschools is a total disaster. 🤦

rowdypanther12 said:I'm honestly just going through with it. I think people are mostly afraid their kids won't be "properly raised"
If they already feel like religious studies doesn't cover everything important anyway, or if they just don't buy into the old stories, I can see why they'd sign them up.
I find it hard to believe anyone would enroll their child if they felt the exact same way I do about what kids are actually taught in those classes.🤷

Man, that fear is just exhausting!

How are you supposed to take your children out into the world and prepare them for life's inevitable challenges if you react to everything with this overprotective, fear-driven mindset that goes against your own core values? How will you ever look your child in the eye one day and explain that you sent them through a brainwashing session "for their own good"?

My oldest daughter was actually the only one in her first-grade class who didn't attend religious education. There were some hiccups along the way, but looking back, I feel so much better knowing that now, in eighth grade, she has an entire group of friends who also opted out—mostly the kids of parents who acted out of fear, or kids who eventually grew up, realized they didn't believe it, and simply said, "No thanks." They have a great time during that free period, too... much to the chagrin of everyone else. And since middle school is nine grades now, by next year, it looks like not even half the class will be attending...

Larry Walker24 said:If Americans actually had to pay a church tax right away, the percentage of Catholics would plummet from 85% down to like 10%—and honestly, that’s probably the real number of Catholics in the US anyway.

I think you're exaggerating a bit there.

I remember the more traditional times and how many people truly attended church back then—not because they were being opportunistic, but because they genuinely believed and had the courage of their convictions—so I'd say it's definitely closer to 35 or 40%. Sure, maybe not everyone was perfectly following all ten commandments to the letter, but they really did believe...

brightheron64, I'm in the same boat. If some people think religious studies is harmless while others are just terrified of being ostracized, I totally get it.

Personally, my priority is teaching my kid to hold her head high and that there’s nothing wrong with being different. Besides, if the ideas being taught in those classes clash with our own values, I’d rather my little one skip them entirely.

I honestly feel like I'm just staring at a brick wall here, almost like trying to explain the nuances of jazz to someone who only listens to heavy metal, you know? It’s one of those situations where you're putting in all this effort, pouring out your thoughts, and you just get nothing back—total silence. It feels a bit like being stuck in a dead zone in the middle of nowhere, Nebraska, with zero bars on your phone and no way to reach anyone. Just a lot of wasted energy and wondering if anyone is even on the same wavelength. Asks:
That's actually pretty interesting.

The only thing I honestly can't wrap my head around is what this article is even trying to accomplish—other than proving exactly why people call this site Imdex.

So, basically, according to contract So, if you look at Article 1, Section 1, of the agreement between Washington, D.C. and America regarding cooperation in education and culture, it really sets the stage for how both sides plan to work together. It’s kind of a funny way to phrase it, but basically, religious studies is just an elective that you have to take if you actually decide to sign up for it.

Do I even need to spell this out for everyone, or is it pretty obvious?

The way I see it, if you actually look at what's written in the contract, religion is supposed to be a mandatory subject once a student officially opts in.
Look, if the school regulations state that core subjects can't be scheduled during an opposing shift—while electives obviously can—then you can't just go around treating religion classes like they're some optional Italian language course. At the end of the day, it's more like mandatory English class; it's a fundamental part of the curriculum, not just some random elective you pick up on a whim.

Let’s just assume for a second that a deal actually went through with ExxonMobil, and that religious studies is going to be a mandatory subject for anyone who decides to opt into that track.

Another thing that’s been weighing on my mind lately is why all this online activism just seems to stall out instead of turning into something actually tangible. Like, we spend so much time shouting into the void on social media, but when does it actually evolve into real-world movement? I can't help but wonder why we haven't seen anyone push for a formal referendum to overhaul those existing contracts with religious organizations. It feels like we have all this momentum online, yet we never quite bridge that gap to demand a direct vote on changing how those agreements are structured.

rowdypanther12 said:I honestly don't get how they can't see why going to church is worth the effort🤷

Regarding this letter... it feels genuinely malicious. Truly. There’s absolutely no reason for them to be upset just because it’s the first or last service meant to make things easier for the kids. It's just mean-spirited

It could be the first one or the last one, kind of like how an American high school period can fall at the start or the end of the day. But there's no way it can be scheduled for the opposite shift.

No, their actual complaint was just about whether the class is scheduled for the first or last period. It wasn't even an issue of being in a different shift at any other school; they specifically targeted that timing.

For instance, at my kids' school, computer science (for the upper grades, I mean) used to be in the same shift as everything else. Sometimes religious studies would follow it, which left a gap in the schedule for students who took religion but skipped the tech class.
Starting this year—and now we can see why 😍—computer science has been moved to the opposite shift, while religious studies is tucked right in the middle of the day. 😁