Religion classes in school - Megathread

briskbison55 said:I honestly don't have any clue about that stay or the people in charge of watching over the students... I’m asking sincerely because I just haven't come across anything about it. Maybe it's some newer thing? But, I guess, looking at how much time has passed, we probably aren't that far off.

So, I was out on the street today, just walking along, and someone actually handed me this flyer... it was one of those things claiming that eating meat is basically murder. Like, seriously? Do I think meat is murder? No. I mean, I don't know, if you apply that logic to anything else, it just doesn't really hold up, I guess. It’s just... yeah.

I guess I just really love these kinds of sweeping, grand statements that don't actually have any real substance behind them... you can totally see how empty they are right here in the following post.

Quincy:

Not quite. I mean, if you think about it... those first schools were around for millennia before your church-run ones even existed. I guess it's just a matter of how you look at history, but yeah, they definitely came first. I don't know, I guess I see things a bit differently... I mean, if you ask me, the Church actually ended up stalling out real progress in education and science. It’s like they threw us right back into a dark age instead of actually pulling us out of one. Maybe that's just my take, but it feels like they held everything back, you know?

What is this even based on? I mean, sure, I could probably sit here all day and rattle off data about when universities were founded around the world, or talk about how libraries work and how knowledge gets passed down through the generations... but it just feels kind of pointless, doesn't it? Especially when you have someone on the other side just declaring their own claim as if that somehow makes it an actual argument. It's just... I don't know, it doesn't really hold water, I guess.

Quincy:

I don't even see the point in addressing the rest of your rambling about Srnavka or whatever else, mostly because I haven't actually followed her work. Not that it matters, I guess. Unlike you, I actually use my brain—which means things like history, current events, and general culture aren't just total mysteries to me. I’m perfectly capable of using actual logic and what I know to form an opinion. I realize that might sound a bit abstract to some people, though.

I mean, she’s basically just spouting nonsense like that, you know? It’s never actually backed up by any real evidence or solid arguments or facts—it’s just this raw, open-ended bitterness and pure intolerance toward anything that doesn't line up with her association's bank account. And honestly, I guess that’s pretty much the main driver for all those groups that get so loud about trying to strip religious studies out of our public schools.

Unlike Christian Europe, which started with the Crusades, then moved into persecuting scientists and "witches," followed by humanitarian work (shoutout to shtefy 🤣) through the enslavement of Africa, conquering huge chunks of the globe, and ethnically cleansing indigenous peoples across both Americas, Australia, and Oceania, while forcing their religion on everyone... plus the modern era of Christian America where they carry on traditions by printing "In God We Trust" on the dollar bills while simultaneously causing millions of innocent people to suffer because of the oil industry.
You absolute damn pagan Roman. They are definitely worse than the enlightened Christians who came after them.

It’s kind of interesting, though, how that same Church actually preserved the very scientific works that people back then were being accused of heresy for. And, uh, the whole idea that the Church was responsible for the enslavement of Africa and the ethnic cleansing of the rest of the world is... well, I'm totally unfamiliar with that. Do you have some kind of connection or proof that shows the Church's actual stance on, say, the Belgian or Dutch atrocities in Africa?

👏 Screw the Greek academies, screw the rise of the Far East, screw the Middle East that was writing about stinky (Christian) Europeans while they were centuries ahead of us in every scientific field... Oh, and since we're on the subject, you know what happened to them? They twisted Christianity (ahem, Islam) and fell straight into their own Dark Ages.
Are you seriously trying to have a debate about this?

No. I just see how some people feel this need to randomly throw Greece into the equation, but I always ask them, like, which specific Greek school of philosophy are they even talking about? We could talk about the Euphrates and Tigris valleys, the cradle of civilization, or we could talk about China, which used to be way ahead of the West in everything, but why would we bring that up when we're discussing religious education in American schools? The Church and faith have seen China pass through different eras as a superpower, and then China became this communist mess where millions went hungry... times change, I guess.

Given the sheer amount of ecclesiastical history you seem to possess (that's an irony, by the way—I really feel the need to point that out), here is just one tiny little detail regarding the role and blessing of the church in the enslavement of half the globe—of course, they don't teach this in Sunday school.🤦
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tordesillas

There's really no point in writing about the centuries-long crusade against literacy, freedom of thought, the printing press (including things like burning Bibles written in any language other than Latin), the Index of Forbidden Books, censorship, and so on, to anyone who lacks basic knowledge of the subject or hasn't even attempted to look into the actual history of the church's crimes against humanity—especially its crimes against science and intellectual liberty.

briskbison55 said:I honestly don't have any clue about that stay or the people in charge of watching over the students... I’m asking sincerely because I just haven't come across anything about it. Maybe it's some newer thing? But, I guess, looking at how much time has passed, we probably aren't that far off.

So, I was out on the street today, just walking along, and someone actually handed me this flyer... it was one of those things claiming that eating meat is basically murder. Like, seriously? Do I think meat is murder? No. I mean, I don't know, if you apply that logic to anything else, it just doesn't really hold up, I guess. It’s just... yeah.

I guess I just really love these kinds of sweeping, grand statements that don't actually have any real substance behind them... you can totally see how empty they are right here in the following post.

Quincy:

Not quite. I mean, if you think about it... those first schools were around for millennia before your church-run ones even existed. I guess it's just a matter of how you look at history, but yeah, they definitely came first. I don't know, I guess I see things a bit differently... I mean, if you ask me, the Church actually ended up stalling out real progress in education and science. It’s like they threw us right back into a dark age instead of actually pulling us out of one. Maybe that's just my take, but it feels like they held everything back, you know?

What is this even based on? I mean, sure, I could probably sit here all day and rattle off data about when universities were founded around the world, or talk about how libraries work and how knowledge gets passed down through the generations... but it just feels kind of pointless, doesn't it? Especially when you have someone on the other side just declaring their own claim as if that somehow makes it an actual argument. It's just... I don't know, it doesn't really hold water, I guess.

Quincy:

I don't even see the point in addressing the rest of your rambling about Srnavka or whatever else, mostly because I haven't actually followed her work. Not that it matters, I guess. Unlike you, I actually use my brain—which means things like history, current events, and general culture aren't just total mysteries to me. I’m perfectly capable of using actual logic and what I know to form an opinion. I realize that might sound a bit abstract to some people, though.

I mean, she’s basically just spouting nonsense like that, you know? It’s never actually backed up by any real evidence or solid arguments or facts—it’s just this raw, open-ended bitterness and pure intolerance toward anything that doesn't line up with her association's bank account. And honestly, I guess that’s pretty much the main driver for all those groups that get so loud about trying to strip religious studies out of our public schools.

Unlike Christian Europe, which started with the Crusades, then moved into persecuting scientists and "witches," followed by humanitarian work (shoutout to shtefy 🤣) through the enslavement of Africa, conquering huge chunks of the globe, and ethnically cleansing indigenous peoples across both Americas, Australia, and Oceania, while forcing their religion on everyone... plus the modern era of Christian America where they carry on traditions by printing "In God We Trust" on the dollar bills while simultaneously causing millions of innocent people to suffer because of the oil industry.
You absolute damn pagan Roman. They are definitely worse than the enlightened Christians who came after them.

It’s kind of interesting, though, how that same Church actually preserved the very scientific works that people back then were being accused of heresy for. And, uh, the whole idea that the Church was responsible for the enslavement of Africa and the ethnic cleansing of the rest of the world is... well, I'm totally unfamiliar with that. Do you have some kind of connection or proof that shows the Church's actual stance on, say, the Belgian or Dutch atrocities in Africa?

👏 Screw the Greek academies, screw the rise of the Far East, screw the Middle East that was writing about stinky (Christian) Europeans while they were centuries ahead of us in every scientific field... Oh, and since we're on the subject, you know what happened to them? They twisted Christianity (ahem, Islam) and fell straight into their own Dark Ages.
Are you seriously trying to have a debate about this?

No. I just see how some people feel this need to randomly throw Greece into the equation, but I always ask them, like, which specific Greek school of philosophy are they even talking about? We could talk about the Euphrates and Tigris valleys, the cradle of civilization, or we could talk about China, which used to be way ahead of the West in everything, but why would we bring that up when we're discussing religious education in American schools? The Church and faith have seen China pass through different eras as a superpower, and then China became this communist mess where millions went hungry... times change, I guess.

If you don't know something, you sit down, listen, read up, or just ask someone who actually does. That's what we're doing here. Just because you don't have a kid facing the same issues—or even if you do, but you aren't treating it like it's your own problem—doesn't mean the person struggling doesn't have a real issue.
Playing dumb is just wrong.
It always comes back to haunt you. Maybe not when we're talking about religious studies, but when things get heavy later, you're gonna realize how much you need someone who didn't just play blind and troll while you were dealing with something serious.

We might be close in age, but seriously, are we really that far apart if you haven't heard a single word about after-school care, the teachers on duty, or the general responsibility and oversight teachers have over students? Honestly, I have to wonder.

briskbison55 said:I honestly don't have any clue about that stay or the people in charge of watching over the students... I’m asking sincerely because I just haven't come across anything about it. Maybe it's some newer thing? But, I guess, looking at how much time has passed, we probably aren't that far off.

So, I was out on the street today, just walking along, and someone actually handed me this flyer... it was one of those things claiming that eating meat is basically murder. Like, seriously? Do I think meat is murder? No. I mean, I don't know, if you apply that logic to anything else, it just doesn't really hold up, I guess. It’s just... yeah.

I guess I just really love these kinds of sweeping, grand statements that don't actually have any real substance behind them... you can totally see how empty they are right here in the following post.

Quincy:

Not quite. I mean, if you think about it... those first schools were around for millennia before your church-run ones even existed. I guess it's just a matter of how you look at history, but yeah, they definitely came first. I don't know, I guess I see things a bit differently... I mean, if you ask me, the Church actually ended up stalling out real progress in education and science. It’s like they threw us right back into a dark age instead of actually pulling us out of one. Maybe that's just my take, but it feels like they held everything back, you know?

What is this even based on? I mean, sure, I could probably sit here all day and rattle off data about when universities were founded around the world, or talk about how libraries work and how knowledge gets passed down through the generations... but it just feels kind of pointless, doesn't it? Especially when you have someone on the other side just declaring their own claim as if that somehow makes it an actual argument. It's just... I don't know, it doesn't really hold water, I guess.

Quincy:

I don't even see the point in addressing the rest of your rambling about Srnavka or whatever else, mostly because I haven't actually followed her work. Not that it matters, I guess. Unlike you, I actually use my brain—which means things like history, current events, and general culture aren't just total mysteries to me. I’m perfectly capable of using actual logic and what I know to form an opinion. I realize that might sound a bit abstract to some people, though.

I mean, she’s basically just spouting nonsense like that, you know? It’s never actually backed up by any real evidence or solid arguments or facts—it’s just this raw, open-ended bitterness and pure intolerance toward anything that doesn't line up with her association's bank account. And honestly, I guess that’s pretty much the main driver for all those groups that get so loud about trying to strip religious studies out of our public schools.

Unlike Christian Europe, which started with the Crusades, then moved into persecuting scientists and "witches," followed by humanitarian work (shoutout to shtefy 🤣) through the enslavement of Africa, conquering huge chunks of the globe, and ethnically cleansing indigenous peoples across both Americas, Australia, and Oceania, while forcing their religion on everyone... plus the modern era of Christian America where they carry on traditions by printing "In God We Trust" on the dollar bills while simultaneously causing millions of innocent people to suffer because of the oil industry.
You absolute damn pagan Roman. They are definitely worse than the enlightened Christians who came after them.

It’s kind of interesting, though, how that same Church actually preserved the very scientific works that people back then were being accused of heresy for. And, uh, the whole idea that the Church was responsible for the enslavement of Africa and the ethnic cleansing of the rest of the world is... well, I'm totally unfamiliar with that. Do you have some kind of connection or proof that shows the Church's actual stance on, say, the Belgian or Dutch atrocities in Africa?

👏 Screw the Greek academies, screw the rise of the Far East, screw the Middle East that was writing about stinky (Christian) Europeans while they were centuries ahead of us in every scientific field... Oh, and since we're on the subject, you know what happened to them? They twisted Christianity (ahem, Islam) and fell straight into their own Dark Ages.
Are you seriously trying to have a debate about this?

No. I just see how some people feel this need to randomly throw Greece into the equation, but I always ask them, like, which specific Greek school of philosophy are they even talking about? We could talk about the Euphrates and Tigris valleys, the cradle of civilization, or we could talk about China, which used to be way ahead of the West in everything, but why would we bring that up when we're discussing religious education in American schools? The Church and faith have seen China pass through different eras as a superpower, and then China became this communist mess where millions went hungry... times change, I guess.

Excuse me, but are you equating yourself with a seven-year-old, or a seven-year-old with yourself? Are you comparing school to the sidewalk? Comparing the authority of a teacher to a guy handing out flyers? Equating your decision-making power to a child's ability to decide whether to take a pamphlet? Or are you trying to say your ability to judge what meat is is somehow the same as a seven-year-old's ability to judge what faith is?

Second off, you claimed that kids who don't attend religious classes have no connection to them whatsoever.
Let me give you an example that proves the exact opposite.
You throw out a street example involving adults to act like it doesn't matter, basically saying "whatever, who cares."
It matters.
I signed a waiver at my school stating my kid wouldn't participate.
It was clearly documented.
Then, a month later, they subtly shove another form in my face, acting all coy like, "Oh, if you haven't signed yet..."
I told them, "I already signed it, they aren't going, end of story."
Three weeks later, they show up at my house with religious materials.

Seriously, that is unacceptable.
It’s sneaky, manipulative, and plays the long game.
And it's plain rude.

You can't compare that to rules on the street. You can't equate an adult to a child, nor can you equate the authority of a teacher to a random person passing out ads—especially not when you're comparing pedestrians to actual students.

This approach kills the conversation. It makes dialogue impossible and prevents any real understanding of other people's views, which is the whole point of discussing things.
And if you keep pushing this line, well, that's just trolling.
And that's not gonna fly with me. 😉

Richard Perez3 said:If you don't know something, you sit down, listen, read up, or just ask someone who actually does. That's what we're doing here. Just because you don't have a kid facing the same issues—or even if you do, but you aren't treating it like it's your own problem—doesn't mean the person struggling doesn't have a real issue.
Playing dumb is just wrong.
It always comes back to haunt you. Maybe not when we're talking about religious studies, but when things get heavy later, you're gonna realize how much you need someone who didn't just play blind and troll while you were dealing with something serious.

We might be close in age, but seriously, are we really that far apart if you haven't heard a single word about after-school care, the teachers on duty, or the general responsibility and oversight teachers have over students? Honestly, I have to wonder.

Excuse me, but are you equating yourself with a seven-year-old, or a seven-year-old with yourself? Are you comparing school to the sidewalk? Comparing the authority of a teacher to a guy handing out flyers? Equating your decision-making power to a child's ability to decide whether to take a pamphlet? Or are you trying to say your ability to judge what meat is is somehow the same as a seven-year-old's ability to judge what faith is?

Second off, you claimed that kids who don't attend religious classes have no connection to them whatsoever.
Let me give you an example that proves the exact opposite.
You throw out a street example involving adults to act like it doesn't matter, basically saying "whatever, who cares."
It matters.
I signed a waiver at my school stating my kid wouldn't participate.
It was clearly documented.
Then, a month later, they subtly shove another form in my face, acting all coy like, "Oh, if you haven't signed yet..."
I told them, "I already signed it, they aren't going, end of story."
Three weeks later, they show up at my house with religious materials.

Seriously, that is unacceptable.
It’s sneaky, manipulative, and plays the long game.
And it's plain rude.

You can't compare that to rules on the street. You can't equate an adult to a child, nor can you equate the authority of a teacher to a random person passing out ads—especially not when you're comparing pedestrians to actual students.

This approach kills the conversation. It makes dialogue impossible and prevents any real understanding of other people's views, which is the whole point of discussing things.
And if you keep pushing this line, well, that's just trolling.
And that's not gonna fly with me. 😉

I mean, look, I’m just speaking from my own experience here... back when I was in school, we used to spend our free periods hanging out on the playground, or in the gym, or just chilling in the cafeteria without any teachers actually watching over us. So, please, don't act like I'm being thick. I really didn't hear about any teachers being assigned to supervise students during those gaps in the schedule. I asked, I got an answer, and now we move on.

Quincy:

Are you seriously trying to equate yourself with a seven-year-old? Or are you comparing a child to yourself? You're treating the school system like it's just some random street corner, applying street logic to school rules. Comparing the authority of a teacher to someone handing out flyers on a sidewalk? Equating your ability to make decisions with a seven-year-old's decision-making process—like whether or not they decide to take a flyer? Is your ability to choose what kind of meat you eat somehow the same as a seven-year-old's ability to choose their faith?

Let me try answering that with a question of my own... honestly, what is a kid even going to do with a flyer they're handed? Hide it from their parents and secretly join a religious sect? My parents always taught me to check in with them if something was bothering me; kids aren't broken or incapable of thinking.
Quincy:

Another thing, you claimed that kids who don't attend religious classes have zero contact with them. But I can give you an example that proves the exact opposite. You just give examples from the street and treat adults like it's irrelevant, acting all like "whatever, it doesn't matter." It does matter. I signed a waiver at my school stating my child wouldn't be attending. The fact is clearly documented. And yet, a month later, they subtly pushed another form at me, basically saying, "if you haven't signed this yet..." I told them, "I already signed it, they aren't participating, end of story." Then, three weeks later, they bring religious materials home anyway.

And I'm telling you, it's the same for me—they try to shove flyers in my face at every turn even though I'm not interested in stuff regarding kids in Africa or people in Canada. I don't take it personally, but you clearly do, though I honestly don't see why.

Quincy:

That is counterproductive to a discussion, counterproductive to achieving any actual dialogue, and counterproductive to reaching any understanding of different viewpoints—which is exactly what discussions are for. And if you persist with that, well, then it's just trolling. And that won't fly. 😉

Just nonsense. It’s like whenever someone's opinion isn't being respected in a debate, they immediately start throwing around the term "trolling." So, let me say it one more time: an elective subject that doesn't touch upon home upbringing, rules, customs, emotions, or anything like that doesn't belong to people who aren't part of that community. Any attempt to suppress that leads to extremism. Today it's the right of believers to have religious education, tomorrow it's the right of believers to vote—I'm exaggerating, but you know what I mean.

briskbison55 said:I mean, look, I’m just speaking from my own experience here... back when I was in school, we used to spend our free periods hanging out on the playground, or in the gym, or just chilling in the cafeteria without any teachers actually watching over us. So, please, don't act like I'm being thick. I really didn't hear about any teachers being assigned to supervise students during those gaps in the schedule. I asked, I got an answer, and now we move on.

Quincy:

Are you seriously trying to equate yourself with a seven-year-old? Or are you comparing a child to yourself? You're treating the school system like it's just some random street corner, applying street logic to school rules. Comparing the authority of a teacher to someone handing out flyers on a sidewalk? Equating your ability to make decisions with a seven-year-old's decision-making process—like whether or not they decide to take a flyer? Is your ability to choose what kind of meat you eat somehow the same as a seven-year-old's ability to choose their faith?

Let me try answering that with a question of my own... honestly, what is a kid even going to do with a flyer they're handed? Hide it from their parents and secretly join a religious sect? My parents always taught me to check in with them if something was bothering me; kids aren't broken or incapable of thinking.
Quincy:

Another thing, you claimed that kids who don't attend religious classes have zero contact with them. But I can give you an example that proves the exact opposite. You just give examples from the street and treat adults like it's irrelevant, acting all like "whatever, it doesn't matter." It does matter. I signed a waiver at my school stating my child wouldn't be attending. The fact is clearly documented. And yet, a month later, they subtly pushed another form at me, basically saying, "if you haven't signed this yet..." I told them, "I already signed it, they aren't participating, end of story." Then, three weeks later, they bring religious materials home anyway.

And I'm telling you, it's the same for me—they try to shove flyers in my face at every turn even though I'm not interested in stuff regarding kids in Africa or people in Canada. I don't take it personally, but you clearly do, though I honestly don't see why.

Quincy:

That is counterproductive to a discussion, counterproductive to achieving any actual dialogue, and counterproductive to reaching any understanding of different viewpoints—which is exactly what discussions are for. And if you persist with that, well, then it's just trolling. And that won't fly. 😉

Just nonsense. It’s like whenever someone's opinion isn't being respected in a debate, they immediately start throwing around the term "trolling." So, let me say it one more time: an elective subject that doesn't touch upon home upbringing, rules, customs, emotions, or anything like that doesn't belong to people who aren't part of that community. Any attempt to suppress that leads to extremism. Today it's the right of believers to have religious education, tomorrow it's the right of believers to vote—I'm exaggerating, but you know what I mean.

You're acting like that's somehow normal.
We're telling you it isn't.
The school was obligated to have staff on duty.

briskbison55 said:I mean, look, I’m just speaking from my own experience here... back when I was in school, we used to spend our free periods hanging out on the playground, or in the gym, or just chilling in the cafeteria without any teachers actually watching over us. So, please, don't act like I'm being thick. I really didn't hear about any teachers being assigned to supervise students during those gaps in the schedule. I asked, I got an answer, and now we move on.

Quincy:

Are you seriously trying to equate yourself with a seven-year-old? Or are you comparing a child to yourself? You're treating the school system like it's just some random street corner, applying street logic to school rules. Comparing the authority of a teacher to someone handing out flyers on a sidewalk? Equating your ability to make decisions with a seven-year-old's decision-making process—like whether or not they decide to take a flyer? Is your ability to choose what kind of meat you eat somehow the same as a seven-year-old's ability to choose their faith?

Let me try answering that with a question of my own... honestly, what is a kid even going to do with a flyer they're handed? Hide it from their parents and secretly join a religious sect? My parents always taught me to check in with them if something was bothering me; kids aren't broken or incapable of thinking.
Quincy:

Another thing, you claimed that kids who don't attend religious classes have zero contact with them. But I can give you an example that proves the exact opposite. You just give examples from the street and treat adults like it's irrelevant, acting all like "whatever, it doesn't matter." It does matter. I signed a waiver at my school stating my child wouldn't be attending. The fact is clearly documented. And yet, a month later, they subtly pushed another form at me, basically saying, "if you haven't signed this yet..." I told them, "I already signed it, they aren't participating, end of story." Then, three weeks later, they bring religious materials home anyway.

And I'm telling you, it's the same for me—they try to shove flyers in my face at every turn even though I'm not interested in stuff regarding kids in Africa or people in Canada. I don't take it personally, but you clearly do, though I honestly don't see why.

Quincy:

That is counterproductive to a discussion, counterproductive to achieving any actual dialogue, and counterproductive to reaching any understanding of different viewpoints—which is exactly what discussions are for. And if you persist with that, well, then it's just trolling. And that won't fly. 😉

Just nonsense. It’s like whenever someone's opinion isn't being respected in a debate, they immediately start throwing around the term "trolling." So, let me say it one more time: an elective subject that doesn't touch upon home upbringing, rules, customs, emotions, or anything like that doesn't belong to people who aren't part of that community. Any attempt to suppress that leads to extremism. Today it's the right of believers to have religious education, tomorrow it's the right of believers to vote—I'm exaggerating, but you know what I mean.

Kids fall for stupid stuff.
So do adults.
I don't want my kid coming home singing songs about Anthony.
If I wanted that, I'd enroll them in it.
Get it?
You know, nowadays you can't do anything without that famous parental "consent."
Well, I'll withhold mine.
And suddenly, consent doesn't even matter anymore.
Yeah, we can't go down that road.

briskbison55 said:I mean, look, I’m just speaking from my own experience here... back when I was in school, we used to spend our free periods hanging out on the playground, or in the gym, or just chilling in the cafeteria without any teachers actually watching over us. So, please, don't act like I'm being thick. I really didn't hear about any teachers being assigned to supervise students during those gaps in the schedule. I asked, I got an answer, and now we move on.

Quincy:

Are you seriously trying to equate yourself with a seven-year-old? Or are you comparing a child to yourself? You're treating the school system like it's just some random street corner, applying street logic to school rules. Comparing the authority of a teacher to someone handing out flyers on a sidewalk? Equating your ability to make decisions with a seven-year-old's decision-making process—like whether or not they decide to take a flyer? Is your ability to choose what kind of meat you eat somehow the same as a seven-year-old's ability to choose their faith?

Let me try answering that with a question of my own... honestly, what is a kid even going to do with a flyer they're handed? Hide it from their parents and secretly join a religious sect? My parents always taught me to check in with them if something was bothering me; kids aren't broken or incapable of thinking.
Quincy:

Another thing, you claimed that kids who don't attend religious classes have zero contact with them. But I can give you an example that proves the exact opposite. You just give examples from the street and treat adults like it's irrelevant, acting all like "whatever, it doesn't matter." It does matter. I signed a waiver at my school stating my child wouldn't be attending. The fact is clearly documented. And yet, a month later, they subtly pushed another form at me, basically saying, "if you haven't signed this yet..." I told them, "I already signed it, they aren't participating, end of story." Then, three weeks later, they bring religious materials home anyway.

And I'm telling you, it's the same for me—they try to shove flyers in my face at every turn even though I'm not interested in stuff regarding kids in Africa or people in Canada. I don't take it personally, but you clearly do, though I honestly don't see why.

Quincy:

That is counterproductive to a discussion, counterproductive to achieving any actual dialogue, and counterproductive to reaching any understanding of different viewpoints—which is exactly what discussions are for. And if you persist with that, well, then it's just trolling. And that won't fly. 😉

Just nonsense. It’s like whenever someone's opinion isn't being respected in a debate, they immediately start throwing around the term "trolling." So, let me say it one more time: an elective subject that doesn't touch upon home upbringing, rules, customs, emotions, or anything like that doesn't belong to people who aren't part of that community. Any attempt to suppress that leads to extremism. Today it's the right of believers to have religious education, tomorrow it's the right of believers to vote—I'm exaggerating, but you know what I mean.

I view handing religious materials to a seven-year-old exactly how I described I viewed it. It's a real reason—you just don't see it, but I do, you feel me?

briskbison55 said:I mean, look, I’m just speaking from my own experience here... back when I was in school, we used to spend our free periods hanging out on the playground, or in the gym, or just chilling in the cafeteria without any teachers actually watching over us. So, please, don't act like I'm being thick. I really didn't hear about any teachers being assigned to supervise students during those gaps in the schedule. I asked, I got an answer, and now we move on.

Quincy:

Are you seriously trying to equate yourself with a seven-year-old? Or are you comparing a child to yourself? You're treating the school system like it's just some random street corner, applying street logic to school rules. Comparing the authority of a teacher to someone handing out flyers on a sidewalk? Equating your ability to make decisions with a seven-year-old's decision-making process—like whether or not they decide to take a flyer? Is your ability to choose what kind of meat you eat somehow the same as a seven-year-old's ability to choose their faith?

Let me try answering that with a question of my own... honestly, what is a kid even going to do with a flyer they're handed? Hide it from their parents and secretly join a religious sect? My parents always taught me to check in with them if something was bothering me; kids aren't broken or incapable of thinking.
Quincy:

Another thing, you claimed that kids who don't attend religious classes have zero contact with them. But I can give you an example that proves the exact opposite. You just give examples from the street and treat adults like it's irrelevant, acting all like "whatever, it doesn't matter." It does matter. I signed a waiver at my school stating my child wouldn't be attending. The fact is clearly documented. And yet, a month later, they subtly pushed another form at me, basically saying, "if you haven't signed this yet..." I told them, "I already signed it, they aren't participating, end of story." Then, three weeks later, they bring religious materials home anyway.

And I'm telling you, it's the same for me—they try to shove flyers in my face at every turn even though I'm not interested in stuff regarding kids in Africa or people in Canada. I don't take it personally, but you clearly do, though I honestly don't see why.

Quincy:

That is counterproductive to a discussion, counterproductive to achieving any actual dialogue, and counterproductive to reaching any understanding of different viewpoints—which is exactly what discussions are for. And if you persist with that, well, then it's just trolling. And that won't fly. 😉

Just nonsense. It’s like whenever someone's opinion isn't being respected in a debate, they immediately start throwing around the term "trolling." So, let me say it one more time: an elective subject that doesn't touch upon home upbringing, rules, customs, emotions, or anything like that doesn't belong to people who aren't part of that community. Any attempt to suppress that leads to extremism. Today it's the right of believers to have religious education, tomorrow it's the right of believers to vote—I'm exaggerating, but you know what I mean.

But it does interfere.
They’re trying to sneak this stuff in through the back door with all these little mind games.
Look, I don't want religious materials in my house. Period.
And yeah, they're totally overstepping when it comes to how I raise my kid. My parenting style doesn't include any of this nonsense. What's next, forced prayers?
I refuse to let my child be subtly pushed into a cult.
I've already stated that clearly in writing.
And I've said it out loud twice.
How many more times do I have to say it?
Until I finally cave? Because if I do, then apparently I wasn't "overstepping," right?

Hey, quick question for you.
You probably saw my earlier post about my friend’s kid getting sent to Islamic Studies. Apparently, it’s one of those elective classes that supposedly "doesn't interfere with home upbringing, traditions, values, or anything like that" for kids who aren't part of the faith.

It’s the exact same garbage, just different branding. It’s not Christian this time, it’s Islamic—big freaking deal.
Would you ever actually sign your kid up for something like that?

Richard Perez3 said:Hey, quick question for you.
You probably saw my earlier post about my friend’s kid getting sent to Islamic Studies. Apparently, it’s one of those elective classes that supposedly "doesn't interfere with home upbringing, traditions, values, or anything like that" for kids who aren't part of the faith.

It’s the exact same garbage, just different branding. It’s not Christian this time, it’s Islamic—big freaking deal.
Would you ever actually sign your kid up for something like that?

Look, I mean... I honestly feel like there isn't much point in talking anymore once you start comparing believers to pigs. It’s that whole "us versus them" mentality I was rambling about yesterday, you know? To me, that kind of exclusion is basically the first step toward ghettoization, which is exactly how all those totalitarian regimes in history operated and continue to operate today.

Hehe, looks like they’re keeping tabs on us too! A religious studies teacher from St. Louis was actually writing about Catholics and those who oppose religious education in schools.

I don't want to just copy and paste the whole thing (though it's definitely worth a read), but they make a great point about how school religious ed classes are starting to branch out—targeting people who aren't even part of the local parish.

A lot of this stuff gets pushed onto society in such a passive way.

The sad part is that things like altruism and helping others should really be woven into every single subject, including building healthy teacher-student relationships and encouraging kindness among kids. Instead, some of these religious instructors act like their own little club, as if you can only learn those values by sitting in their specific classroom.

briskbison55 said:Look, I mean... I honestly feel like there isn't much point in talking anymore once you start comparing believers to pigs. It’s that whole "us versus them" mentality I was rambling about yesterday, you know? To me, that kind of exclusion is basically the first step toward ghettoization, which is exactly how all those totalitarian regimes in history operated and continue to operate today.

I never even thought about pigs.
The "herd" was just a metaphor for the community.
Actually, you're the one who made that comparison yourself.
You're basically projecting your own assumptions onto me.

Honestly, now I'm wondering... were you thinking about the "herd" when you brought up the pigs?
That's the only way your logic connects back to what I actually wrote.

Wait, so what, we aren't talking about pigs in a pen here, we're talking about actual people? I mean, maybe in some dark history book about concentration camps, but seriously, having a debate at this level is just... impossible. 😉 It’s just pure intolerance, straight-up bigotry, and blatant hatred—that’s really the only way to describe how this tiny, loud minority is reacting toward one specific elective course. And what is that course even teaching? That people like *that* deserve love too. Honestly, it's just madness.

Susan James said:Hehe, looks like they’re keeping tabs on us too! A religious studies teacher from St. Louis was actually writing about Catholics and those who oppose religious education in schools.

I don't want to just copy and paste the whole thing (though it's definitely worth a read), but they make a great point about how school religious ed classes are starting to branch out—targeting people who aren't even part of the local parish.

A lot of this stuff gets pushed onto society in such a passive way.

The sad part is that things like altruism and helping others should really be woven into every single subject, including building healthy teacher-student relationships and encouraging kindness among kids. Instead, some of these religious instructors act like their own little club, as if you can only learn those values by sitting in their specific classroom.

Ugh... this text is way too stiff. It’s got that typical self-righteous vibe, like "we're the only smart ones who actually get it while everyone else is just a bunch of sheep"...

So, how would you even say "don't feed the trolls"...?

briskbison55 said:Wait, so what, we aren't talking about pigs in a pen here, we're talking about actual people? I mean, maybe in some dark history book about concentration camps, but seriously, having a debate at this level is just... impossible. 😉 It’s just pure intolerance, straight-up bigotry, and blatant hatred—that’s really the only way to describe how this tiny, loud minority is reacting toward one specific elective course. And what is that course even teaching? That people like *that* deserve love too. Honestly, it's just madness.

Look, if we're gonna be pedantic about definitions, you put pigs in a sty and sheep in a pen.
I still think there's some room for style and expression on this forum.

By the way, Islamic Studies?

hiddenscout44 said:Ugh... this text is way too stiff. It’s got that typical self-righteous vibe, like "we're the only smart ones who actually get it while everyone else is just a bunch of sheep"...

So, how would you even say "don't feed the trolls"...?

I find it pretty interesting how they interpret us. 🙂

The article came out just a few days ago, right around the same time a few Catholics posted here mentioning they weren't happy with how religious education is being presented in schools.

On a side note, if religious studies is an elective course, why are the textbooks for it being funded by the city government—basically by us taxpayers?
I remember having to pay out of pocket for extra math workbooks if I wanted my kid to take advanced classes, and I had to pay for art supplies too (even though art was a required subject).

In my neck of the woods, the local school district actually covers the cost of books for things like German and Computer Science... at least that's how it works here in my city 😉
And just so you know, that folder they give you is basically just meant to hold your notebooks and pens—it’s definitely not an actual textbook.

Susan James said:I find it pretty interesting how they interpret us. 🙂

The article came out just a few days ago, right around the same time a few Catholics posted here mentioning they weren't happy with how religious education is being presented in schools.

On a side note, if religious studies is an elective course, why are the textbooks for it being funded by the city government—basically by us taxpayers?
I remember having to pay out of pocket for extra math workbooks if I wanted my kid to take advanced classes, and I had to pay for art supplies too (even though art was a required subject).

Even the parents of kids who opt out of religious classes are still paying into the system that covers health insurance for everyone, including those who don't want those classes. Are we going to audit that too? And what about minority rights? Or LGBTQ+ rights? It’s kind of wild to read people complaining about things they actually benefit from $3.25 instead of questioning the things they're constantly receiving $33.

What on earth does health insurance have to do with religious studies? 🤔
Are you actually suggesting that only "good" believers deserve coverage, while everyone else should just be left to suffer through their illnesses?

briskbison55 said:Even the parents of kids who opt out of religious classes are still paying into the system that covers health insurance for everyone, including those who don't want those classes. Are we going to audit that too? And what about minority rights? Or LGBTQ+ rights? It’s kind of wild to read people complaining about things they actually benefit from $3.25 instead of questioning the things they're constantly receiving $33.

And since when do parents of non-religious kids skip out on health insurance? Seriously, nobody told me about this—I'm still getting billed!

As for the LGBTQ+ community, I'd happily give $33. Honestly, not one priest ever told my kid they'd be roasting in hell forever if they weren't a lesbian. Unlike some of these kids sitting through religious studies classes.

Sarah Hall53 said:What on earth does health insurance have to do with religious studies? 🤔
Are you actually suggesting that only "good" believers deserve coverage, while everyone else should just be left to suffer through their illnesses?

I guess it just doesn't make sense if you look at it logically 😁 or do you think only the "good" atheists get a say when we're talking about the Islamic Studies Department? I really hope I don't have to explain that further.

Jason Ortiz5 said:And since when do parents of non-religious kids skip out on health insurance? Seriously, nobody told me about this—I'm still getting billed!

As for the LGBTQ+ community, I'd happily give $33. Honestly, not one priest ever told my kid they'd be roasting in hell forever if they weren't a lesbian. Unlike some of these kids sitting through religious studies classes.

That's the whole point, really... nobody asks if you want it or not—it's just decided for you—but religious education should be a personal choice.

briskbison55 said:I guess it just doesn't make sense if you look at it logically 😁 or do you think only the "good" atheists get a say when we're talking about the Islamic Studies Department? I really hope I don't have to explain that further.

I think your reasoning is a bit flawed here.
Every child in the US has access to basic healthcare services without needing extra private insurance. That coverage is funded by employees across the country through payroll taxes, yet it benefits everyone—including the unemployed—regardless of their gender or religious background. It’s a system built for all citizens.

I was wondering why, if a city like Chicago already covers textbooks for every student, they would choose to fund books for an elective subject like the Islamic Studies Department, but then skip over elective math books or basic supplies like art folders? It seems much more logical for the city to chip in $18for those folders (which are issued the same way as the books) for core subjects, while leaving the specialized religious texts to be purchased only by the families who actually opt into the class. After all, since the school has integrated it directly into the regular daily schedule alongside mandatory subjects, it should be treated similarly.

briskbison55 said:That's the whole point, really... nobody asks if you want it or not—it's just decided for you—but religious education should be a personal choice.

I mean, seriously, an Islamic Studies Department?

😁