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The salon plumber

Started by placidlynx36 · · 👁 8 views · 58 replies

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Participants placidlynx36crimsonwolf20rowdytiger13Jeremy ScottRichard Wilson4Chloe Sullivan88silentfalcon3Taylor Watson15wearyowl29swiftsurfer27crimsonjackal63Amanda HowardElizabeth Allen92neonhound18James Nguyen13Michelle Reed3bluerider63Peter Ruiz2Henry Sullivan3Adam Peterson10Jamie Nelson90mistyseal8goldenrider90ruggedpanther13
Elizabeth Allen92 Elizabeth Allen92 Newcomer
9 messages
joined Aug 2014
#21 ·
crimsonwolf20 said:The left is basically the polar opposite of liberalism in the traditional sense—though let’s be real, the whole left-vs-right divide has become pretty much meaningless these days.

To me, being a liberal means pushing for maximum freedom for every single person, both when it comes to your wallet and your personal life. On the flip side, the leftists are all about restricting that freedom, especially when it involves the economy.

The Republican Party, the Libertarian Party, and everyone else in that camp are actually hardcore economic "leftists"—they aren't economic liberals at all! And honestly, yeah, that goes for the "leftist" coalition running things right now too. You can see the damage from all that government intervention and the massive state bloat in the market everywhere you look.
It’s a real shame, but we just don't have a true economic liberal party here in America. 😢

Then you've got your local salon hair stylists who just parrot those outdated, trashy slogans without having the slightest clue how economics actually works or how politics functions in the real world.
I’d lump most economic leftists—basically all the socialism enthusiasts out there—into that same group. They're definitely the majority.

This whole muddled mess of mixing up "leftist" with "liberal" is something we basically imported from the States—you know, where the lefties call themselves liberals and the Teo party gets branded as ultra-conservatives.
wearyowl29 wearyowl29 Regular
715 messages
joined Feb 2014
#22 ·
Let’s be smart about this and not beat a dead horse, because we all know where this is going.

If we’re going to compare communism to any other ideology, then this whole phenomenon of communism and monotheistic religions actually overlap quite a bit;

1. both emerge from a cult of personality

2. both stay alive through rituals and ceremonies, and both have their own heroes, saints, and folk legends from times of war or labor

3. both weaponize paranoia by inventing enemies out of thin air or even out of their own shadows

4. both claim a monopoly on truth and provide an alibi for their own behavior

5. both believe they are being deeply humane, whether they are killing people or trying to "cure" their opponents

6. both refuse to be subjected to any actual verification of truth or interpretation of the world and its phenomena

7. both crave power and have zero interest in sharing it

8. both are passionately intolerant, even though they each claim to be saving the world in their own way

9. both love converts because the propaganda machine can exploit them to the core for its own goals

10. both maintain a strict hierarchy, which naturally places absolute power at the very top

11. everyone is considered brothers or comrades

12. just as there is a cult of personality, the proletariat class takes on a redemptive role

13. both despise their own heretics, apostates, and factions

14. both demand you swear an oath, whether to the Royal sky or to the Revolution

15. both are more than dedicated to what they do

16. outside of the church or the party, there is no salvation

Or, as Pascal Bruckner puts it: "Communism was the truth of a certain type of Christianity pushed to the extreme."

All of this—and much more—suggests we are looking at two monolithic ideas that are self-sufficient by nature, with both creating totalitarian societies in their own unique ways.
Now, one could argue there is still a distinction, since religions are focused on the afterlife while communism is focused on the earth (though let's be honest, religions aren't exactly immune to earthly matters, either😍).

Religions don't just pop up overnight; building a system of dogmas that actually holds water requires immense work and wisdom. Communism had a short run and never truly became a religion because it didn't have access to what religions have in abundance: the FEAR of death and life,
sin and personal guilt,
the absolution of sin,
the cross of life as a warning and a reminder of what awaits you,
and the promise that life doesn't end with death, but continues into eternal life.

So, communism mimics religion as an ideology within certain categories, but it is definitely NOT a RELIGION in terms of scale. It doesn't just touch physical existence and society; it invades the human PSYCHE, poisoning it with guilt and offering salvation through a cult and a specific structure. It has its own headquarters with a Pope who rules via the holy spirit, a massive corps of professional workers whose sole purpose is maintaining the system, and its longevity—communism lasted maybe 70 years, whereas religions have endured for thousands.

In the end, these are two totalitarian systems that overlap in how they execute their dictatorships, even if their ultimate goals differ; for some, it's in the sky, and for others, it's on the earth. It’s hardly a surprise, really, since all repressive ideologies are woven using the same patterns, even if they use different looms...😲
wearyowl29 wearyowl29 Regular
715 messages
joined Feb 2014
#23 ·
Amanda Howard said:Joining the Cub Scouts was basically their version of First Communion, and moving up to the youth leagues? That was their Confirmation.

But getting inducted into the Party? That’s a full-on ordination...☕
Elizabeth Allen92 Elizabeth Allen92 Newcomer
9 messages
joined Aug 2014
#24 ·
wearyowl29 said:Honestly, communism as a religion is such a perfect way to put it! It’s like Marshall was basically the Pope Pius I 🤦 and Dolanc was probably some high-ranking archbishop from somewhere like Chicago or something. 👏

Actually, it’s more of an ideological cult.

and Marshall was basically Pope Pius I

Marshall would've probably been a Protestant or an Anglican instead.
☕

and Dolanc was likely the Archbishop of Ljubljana.

Yeah.
wearyowl29 wearyowl29 Regular
715 messages
joined Feb 2014
#25 ·
Elizabeth Allen92 said:Actually, it’s more of an ideological cult.

and Marshall was basically Pope Pius I

Marshall would've probably been a Protestant or an Anglican instead.
☕

and Dolanc was likely the Archbishop of Ljubljana.

Yeah.

I mean, being Russian or Ukrainian basically meant you were Orthodox.
Elizabeth Allen92 Elizabeth Allen92 Newcomer
9 messages
joined Aug 2014
#26 ·
Taylor Watson15 said:Friedrich Engels, definitely. Though maybe Karl Marx wouldn't give him the nod since Engels wasn't exactly footing the bill for his entry into the lounge. Still, they’re my favorites. I don't know what kind of nonsense you're trying to pull here, but let's get one thing straight: this isn't some playground for idle chatter. If you're going to step into this arena, bring something substantial to the table. Otherwise, you're just wasting everyone's time with empty noise. I have zero patience for fluff. Either make a point or move along. The leftists—or rather, those people who just start screaming the second anything happens. Fascist. If they throw even one single counterargument at you...

Marx was actually an even bigger piece of work than Engels.
He wrote Capital despite having absolutely zero clue about economics, business, or anything practical for that matter. He never met a real industrial worker in his life, let alone spent a single day on a factory floor with actual laborers.

And just like that, this clueless windbag penned a book that became the literal bible for the cult of communism!

Both Marx and Engels were racists—you can find their quotes scattered all over the internet if you bother to look.

On a personal level, Marx was a total hypocrite and a complete leech. He wouldn't even pay his debts—not to his butcher, his milkman, or his baker... plus, he had an illegitimate daughter he never even acknowledged...
neonhound18 neonhound18 Active Member
192 messages
joined Apr 2013
#27 ·
placidlynx36 said:What exactly defines the concept of a "salon leftist" in your eyes? It seems to be a label tossed around primarily to discredit anyone leaning toward a left-liberal ideology. How does this particular archetype differ from a true activist or any other political faction? Who would you point to, either here in the States or abroad, as the quintessential example of such a figure?

In the States, you see plenty of them within what some might call the "red bourgeoisie," and I’d say Joe Biden and Donald Trump fit the archetype perfectly 🙂. More broadly, though, it tends to describe a wealthy individual who loudly champions all sorts of progressive causes—but, naturally, only as long as those causes don't actually threaten their own interests. They might happen to be part of the LGBTQ+ community, dabble in recreational drugs on the weekends, or listen to heavy metal and punk bands, among other things. Please forgive my rambling, moderator, but I felt compelled to set the stage for this discussion.😍
placidlynx36 placidlynx36 NewcomerOP
4 messages
joined Sep 2014
#28 ·
If the leftists are all about heavy metal and punk, I wonder what the right-wing crowd listens to? Is it just country music and stadium anthems? Does the left actually possess better taste in music? In this country, it seems like every artist the critics adore belongs to the left—bands like the Red Hot Chili Peppers, TBF, and Usrban.
James Nguyen13 James Nguyen13 Regular
256 messages
joined Feb 2012
#29 ·
neonhound18 said:In the States, you see plenty of them within what some might call the "red bourgeoisie," and I’d say Joe Biden and Donald Trump fit the archetype perfectly 🙂. More broadly, though, it tends to describe a wealthy individual who loudly champions all sorts of progressive causes—but, naturally, only as long as those causes don't actually threaten their own interests. They might happen to be part of the LGBTQ+ community, dabble in recreational drugs on the weekends, or listen to heavy metal and punk bands, among other things. Please forgive my rambling, moderator, but I felt compelled to set the stage for this discussion.😍

Broadly speaking, a lot of people around here tend to be cynical leftists.

They want everything handed to them for free via social programs, but they draw the line at the government taking a single cent of THEIR money to fund any of it.
Richard Wilson4 Richard Wilson4 Veteran
2K messages
joined Sep 2009
#30 ·
wearyowl29 said:Honestly, communism as a religion is such a perfect way to put it! It’s like Marshall was basically the Pope Pius I 🤦 and Dolanc was probably some high-ranking archbishop from somewhere like Chicago or something. 👏

What's the difference?

They’ve got their own little "gods." They cling to this idea that a better life is coming, even though it's never actually happening in this lifetime. They’ve got their martyrs, their extremists, and their victims. Honestly, this whole religion? It doesn't look any different from any other one out there.
Michelle Reed3 Michelle Reed3 Newcomer
1 message
joined Oct 2014
#31 ·
I can jump in here... you guys call him a salon conservative... but having dealt with him personally, I definitely see him more as a high-society right-winger... that's just how I experienced him... hehehe...
crimsonwolf20 crimsonwolf20 Active Member
82 messages
joined Apr 2016
#32 ·
placidlynx36 said:If the leftists are all about heavy metal and punk, I wonder what the right-wing crowd listens to? Is it just country music and stadium anthems? Does the left actually possess better taste in music? In this country, it seems like every artist the critics adore belongs to the left—bands like the Red Hot Chili Peppers, TBF, and Usrban.

Me? When I'm cruising in my car, I’ve got everything from alt-rock classics like Nirvana and R.E.M. to stuff by Brk, some newer country hits, and even that good old-school cowboy vibe from Johnny. Then you've got the heavy hitters like AC/DC, Metallica, Iron Maiden, Tenacious D, Mumford & Sons... and honestly, I don't really care about political labels—I'm not a "leftist" or a "rightist," music doesn't care about your politics! As for Green Day or Dubioza Kolektiv? Eh, not really my thing—don't even have them on my USB 😁

Most of our music critics—just like most of their peers in the arts and within the government bureaucracy thanks to an Orwellian Department of the Interior—are basically nothing more than total trashmarks.
crimsonwolf20 crimsonwolf20 Active Member
82 messages
joined Apr 2016
#33 ·
wearyowl29 said:Honestly, communism as a religion is such a perfect way to put it! It’s like Marshall was basically the Pope Pius I 🤦 and Dolanc was probably some high-ranking archbishop from somewhere like Chicago or something. 👏

Honestly, communism really does function just like a religion—actually, you could say socialism is its own kind of faith, one that’s responsible for some of the most massive atrocities in human history. No other religion even comes close. It's all done in the name of "the collective" and chasing some impossible utopia.

If you look at the empirical evidence and the theoretical arguments, it’s nothing more than a blind belief in something that doesn't exist—and honestly, can't exist. We're talking about an irrational faith in the idea that we can create this prosperous, classless society with free services for everyone through central authority and social engineering.

The thing is, socialists don't offer any actual proof, and their theories don't align with basic economic principles or real-world human experience. They aren't living in reality—instead, they aggressively cling to this blind faith and hope for some righteous socialist society where everyone is equal.

Not only do they lack evidence, but they willfully ignore mountains of data telling them the exact opposite! Even seeing how this entire system collapsed all over the world hasn't talked many of them out of their religious fervor and those irrational beliefs in socialist fairy tales.
bluerider63 bluerider63 Regular
382 messages
joined Jan 2013
#34 ·
James Nguyen13 said:Broadly speaking, a lot of people around here tend to be cynical leftists.

They want everything handed to them for free via social programs, but they draw the line at the government taking a single cent of THEIR money to fund any of it.

Look, there isn't a country on Earth where the government doesn't take a cut, but in the US, they just fleece you blind and call it fair play. And the crazy part is we all just sit there taking it, staying quiet while they pick our pockets. I haven't seen anyone actually standing up, starting protests, or making a real scene about it, whether they're a liberal or a conservative. Because honestly, what's the point? What do we actually get out of fighting back?
Peter Ruiz2 Peter Ruiz2 Member
20 messages
joined Oct 2014
#35 ·
The salon intellectual is just someone who talks big but never actually does anything. Their whole media persona exists for one reason: to offer shallow social critiques while making sure people don't actually take matters into their own hands. The underlying message is always the same: "Yeah, the rich have totally screwed us over, but just stay patient—they'll eventually save us." They're nothing more than paid shills and pathetic followers of Koch.
silentfalcon3 silentfalcon3 Active Member
66 messages
joined May 2017
#36 ·
Peter Ruiz2 said:The salon intellectual is just someone who talks big but never actually does anything. Their whole media persona exists for one reason: to offer shallow social critiques while making sure people don't actually take matters into their own hands. The underlying message is always the same: "Yeah, the rich have totally screwed us over, but just stay patient—they'll eventually save us." They're nothing more than paid shills and pathetic followers of Koch.

The best example of this is how they handle juvenile violence.
They just keep chanting "education, education, education" like a broken record, completely indifferent to the kids who are being beaten or, tragically, killed... They stubbornly ignore actual experts and act like any deviation from their specific curriculum is the end of the world...

Also, if you haven't seen them yet, I'd suggest watching the Latvian documentary "The Soviet Story" and, if you have a strong stomach, the Russian film "Chekist"
James Nguyen13 James Nguyen13 Regular
256 messages
joined Feb 2012
#37 ·
bluerider63 said:Look, there isn't a country on Earth where the government doesn't take a cut, but in the US, they just fleece you blind and call it fair play. And the crazy part is we all just sit there taking it, staying quiet while they pick our pockets. I haven't seen anyone actually standing up, starting protests, or making a real scene about it, whether they're a liberal or a conservative. Because honestly, what's the point? What do we actually get out of fighting back?

They strip us because we have a MASSIVE social safety net to maintain.

Think about it: we have public education through college, universal healthcare, decent highways and infrastructure, Social Security, various welfare programs, subsidized farming, and those massive state-backed industries that the government keeps afloat just because people demand it (kind of like how they might bail out a struggling refinery in the Midwest)...

Of course, everyone wants all of that plus a little extra, but nobody wants to foot the bill.

If you're going to complain about the government taking your money, then you better be prepared to support privatization, corporate concessions, user fees, tuition hikes, and everything else that lets the state off the hook for paying for it all. Otherwise, you're just being a hypocritical cynic.
Peter Ruiz2 Peter Ruiz2 Member
20 messages
joined Oct 2014
#38 ·
silentfalcon3 said:The best example of this is how they handle juvenile violence.
They just keep chanting "education, education, education" like a broken record, completely indifferent to the kids who are being beaten or, tragically, killed... They stubbornly ignore actual experts and act like any deviation from their specific curriculum is the end of the world...

Also, if you haven't seen them yet, I'd suggest watching the Latvian documentary "The Soviet Story" and, if you have a strong stomach, the Russian film "Chekist"

It's stupidity like that dull Baltic film. A salon leftist isn't the same thing as a real leftist, though half the time it’s not even clear what being a leftist actually means anymore. To me, a salon leftist is someone who mourns some idealized version of social democracy—someone who still believes in "capitalism with a human face." That’s where their "radicalism" and criticism hit a wall. Their whole plea boils down to "let's change everything just so nothing actually changes." They just can't admit that trying to crawl back to the era of social liberalism is a lost cause. Capitalism has reached its limits; it exists solely as an obstacle to human progress. That's why their propaganda machine feels so aggressive and vulgar—it's just a desperate hunt for new markets through global terror.
wearyowl29 wearyowl29 Regular
715 messages
joined Feb 2014
#39 ·
crimsonwolf20 said:Honestly, communism really does function just like a religion—actually, you could say socialism is its own kind of faith, one that’s responsible for some of the most massive atrocities in human history. No other religion even comes close. It's all done in the name of "the collective" and chasing some impossible utopia.

If you look at the empirical evidence and the theoretical arguments, it’s nothing more than a blind belief in something that doesn't exist—and honestly, can't exist. We're talking about an irrational faith in the idea that we can create this prosperous, classless society with free services for everyone through central authority and social engineering.

The thing is, socialists don't offer any actual proof, and their theories don't align with basic economic principles or real-world human experience. They aren't living in reality—instead, they aggressively cling to this blind faith and hope for some righteous socialist society where everyone is equal.

Not only do they lack evidence, but they willfully ignore mountains of data telling them the exact opposite! Even seeing how this entire system collapsed all over the world hasn't talked many of them out of their religious fervor and those irrational beliefs in socialist fairy tales.


If we want to compare communism to any other ideology, the parallels between this communist phenomenon and monotheistic religions are striking;

1. Both emerge from cults of personality and offer fairytale-like solutions to complex problems.

2. Both sustain themselves through rituals and ceremonies; both have their own heroes, saints, and folk legends of war or labor.

3. Both lean heavily on paranoia, inventing enemies out of thin air or even out of their own shadows.

4. Both claim a monopoly on the truth and use it as an alibi for everything they do.

5. Both believe they are acting out of deep humanity, whether they are killing or trying to "reform" their opponents.

6. Neither is subject to any actual verification of truth or objective interpretation of the world.

7. Both crave power and are terrified of having to share it.

8. Both are passionately intolerant, even while claiming they are saving the world in their own special way.

9. Both love converts because once someone flips, the propaganda machine can exploit them to the core for its goals.

10. Both maintain a strict hierarchy, which leads back to an elite top tier holding absolute power.

11. Everyone is supposedly brothers or comrades.

12. The proletariat plays a redemptive role, much like a cult of personality.

13. Both despise their own heretics, apostates, and internal factions.

14. Both demand an oath—either to the heavens or to the Revolution.

15. Both are incredibly, almost fanatically, devoted to their cause.

!6. Outside of the church or the Party, there is no salvation.

Or, as Pascal Bruckner puts it: "Communism was the truth of a certain kind of Christianity pushed to its extreme."

All of this—and so much more—suggests we are looking at two monolithic ideas that are self-sufficient by nature, both creating totalitarian societies in their own unique ways.
However, there is still a distinction to be made: religions focus on the afterlife, whereas communism focuses on the earthly realm (though, let's be honest, religions aren't exactly detached from this either).

Religions don't just pop up overnight. Building a system of dogmas that actually holds weight requires immense work and wisdom. Communism was short-lived and never truly became a religion because it lacked what religions have in abundance: the fear of death and life itself,
sin and personal guilt,
absolution from sin,
the cross as a reminder and a symbol of what awaits you,
and the hope that life doesn't end at death, but continues into eternal life.

So, while communism mimics religious categories as an ideology, it isn't a RELIGION in scope. It doesn't just touch physical society; it invades the human psyche, poisoning it with guilt and offering salvation through a cult and a rigid structure. It has its own headquarters with a Pope-like leader ruling via the Holy Spirit, a massive army of professionals whose sole job is maintaining the system, and it lacks longevity—communism lasted maybe 70 years, while religions have endured for millennia.

In the end, these two totalitarian systems overlap in how they execute their dictatorships, but their ultimate goals differ: one looks toward the sky, the other toward the earth. It’s hardly surprising; all repressive ideologies are woven on the same loom, even if the patterns vary.
Henry Sullivan3 Henry Sullivan3 Member
14 messages
joined Sep 2016
#40 ·
Most of the hardcore leftists you see today are nothing more than armchair activists. They love to talk a big game, but nobody actually lives in some egalitarian commune, and they aren't out there navigating life alongside multicultural groups or immigrants from overseas. Their shopping habits don't look any different from the average American's, despite all that intense environmental preaching and constant bashing of corporations and consumer culture. You certainly won't find them starting up worker-owned cooperatives that actually prioritize high wages and strict eco-standards...

Even Friedrich Engels was the ultimate example of this kind of salon leftist. He would blow through his capitalist wealth on expensive booze and high-end nightlife without a second thought. Whenever intellectual rivals or labor leaders tried to call him out or mock him for it, he’d just shrug it off, dismissing them as clueless bourgeois philistines who simply didn't get it. It's incredibly difficult for radical leftists to be anything more than "armchair activists" when their entire ideology is built on a pile of unnatural nonsense that's impossible to actually pull off in the real world.

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