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My buddy is heading off to a beautiful q...

Started by Michael Morgan5 · · 👁 5 views · 31 replies

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Participants Michael Morgan5shadowtruckerMatthew Anderson4Kenneth Ramirez5Chris Robinson25Henry Lopez13Sean Kern2Lawrence Bailey77lonetiger98Michelle Evansvividcrane21wanderingangler13Kevin Nguyen3Austin Baker4
Lawrence Bailey77 Lawrence Bailey77 Regular
302 messages
joined Mar 2015
#21 ·
And listen, nobody really knows...

.... To me, it sounds perfectly fine that the doctor thinks he’s capable of pulling himself together on his own. In fact, I suppose it’s the only way. No hospital in the States is going to truly fix you. It might be better to just ensure things don't spiral further, though I guess that depends entirely on the circumstances.

.. If I were to offer any advice, I'd say just stay close by, ready for when he actually needs you.

Let me tell you my own experience. I have plenty of friends, but you know how it goes. Much like yourself, man, you can't make heads or tails of a friend when they're spiraling; nothing they say sounds rational. I spent a long time in that exact same headspace. Not just every now and then, but constantly. Full-time. 😁 I didn't seek out much company from "normal" people back then because I was acutely aware of my condition. There isn't much help to be found from the outside when the issue is internal. Eventually, I ended up in a facility myself. Not directly, perhaps, but if you understand what I mean, no one was really holding my hand through it. I left quickly because I had too many work obligations and responsibilities, and I realized I could probably do more for myself than they could do for me anyway, and

well, that's how it went after I caught up with some old friends and we talked for a bit;

They started lecturing me, telling me I should see doctors or whatever nonsense, suggesting I reach out to them... essentially implying "you shouldn't talk about these things publicly." I told them, "Look, I appreciate the sentiment, friends, but please don't get inside my head too much." I didn't want to have to bother you all, frankly.

So, as usual, I just endured the daily grind. But when the burnout hits and everything starts snapping under the pressure, I call my friends—hundreds of calls over time—and there is just no answer. Silence. Total emptiness. And honestly, it's a mess. You're told everything you do is wrong, or you screw up and everyone blames you. (I won't even mention that I called the national crisis hotline for months and never once did anyone pick up! I even called that number in front of other people on speakerphone just to prove it, because in those states, people tend to assume you're lying.) For someone who isn't stable—someone who is barely standing because the ground beneath them is slippery and full of holes—having your support system vanish exactly when you need it is a fatal reality. Because while you're fighting, you're constantly guessing and waiting to see if that support will hold, knowing it rarely does. You see it in their eyes; you see exactly what you've become. You notice how when you start talking, their heads droop and their souls seem to flee from you. You shouldn't, and you simply cannot, drag others into those depths. If you pull someone else down with you, you've both failed. It is better to wait, as I suggested elsewhere, and take it one small step at a time. Wait for moments of clarity and try to navigate through them slowly.

If you have the will, the time, and—more importantly—the nerves, then help him. And listen to him closely. Even if he's talking nonsense, try to sift through the fog to figure out the best thing you can do, or perhaps, sometimes, the best thing is to do nothing at all... just listen. In my experience, being ignored or having someone say "go find someone else to deal with this" is worse than a bullet to the head. 😁

It will take a toll on you too, but you'll be helping him immensely. It is far easier to destroy a person than it is to help them. Oh, certainly.

Good luck. 👍
Kevin Nguyen3 Kevin Nguyen3 Regular
425 messages
joined May 2013
#22 ·
Michael Morgan5 said:The whole situation is just pure chaos.

I won't ramble too much, but we were chatting on the way to his psychiatrist appointment, and since my buddy was looking significantly better today than he did last Friday, I decided to be blunt. I told him straight up what I thought, explaining that I only wanted to say it for his own sake and that I intended to share it with the doctor as well.
He didn't push back at all; he was completely on board.
It’s a total 180 from the last time we sat down together.

To be clear, I wasn't trying to dictate treatment or anything during the session with the psychiatrist. I just offered my perspective on how he's been acting, backed it up with a few observations, and gave her a—well, let's call it a "mostly objective" description of his living situation (there were certain things I couldn't bring up while he was standing right there, but honestly, that probably doesn't even matter now).

To my absolute shock, the doctor basically shrugged it off. She told us she can't force anyone to take their medication, said we should just watch over him as best we can, and mentioned he doesn't even have to come back if he doesn't want to. 😕
She just said if things take a sudden turn for the worse, we need to make sure we get him to her office or to the ER, etc., etc.

Throughout the entire conversation between the two of them, my friend didn't utter a single coherent sentence. You could have cut the tension in that room with a knife. That's why I was so caught off guard by her reaction.

I'm honestly at a loss here. I have no idea what the next move is.

So, you tried to be "polite"—at both your expense and his—by carefully weighing your words so you wouldn't seem rude, trying to excuse his mess.
And what did that achieve?
Absolutely nothing.

Your hesitance and this deep, overly analytical brooding have only pushed him further away from health and pushed you further away from him, believe me.

He needs urgent medical treatment under professional supervision, but given the current circumstances, there is simply nothing you can do there.

Taking a stand isn't an insult; it's genuine help. It shouldn't be wrapped in cellophane or handled with kid gloves.
No one can force anyone to do anything, but you can—even brutally—show them the reality of the state they are in.
And as your title suggests, he is currently in deep sh--.

Why are you acting this way?
We know one reason... his attitude toward you and your stance on his condition.
You pulled back to avoid a repeat of... well, that.
But now, while being "withdrawn," you're already making these flawed plans under the guise of helping a friend.
Understand this: he can only be helped by the one truth sitting between you, which is serious, intensive treatment—even if it ruins the friendship, because his health has to come first.
Even if you two stop talking tomorrow, wouldn't you be happy to hear that he's doing better?
But when someone actually gets better, these kinds of messes don't happen.
Lawrence Bailey77 Lawrence Bailey77 Regular
302 messages
joined Mar 2015
#23 ·
Kevin Nguyen3, did you really just deconstruct both him and his buddy in a few short sentences? It’s almost like you were playing The Mentalist on fast-forward here.

It isn't that I don't trust your judgment, per se, but if you'll permit me to be blunt... it all feels a bit... strained, I suppose. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but could you perhaps elaborate? I wonder if we're truly being as "thorough" as we think we are, or if we might be missing the finer points.😉
Kevin Nguyen3 Kevin Nguyen3 Regular
425 messages
joined May 2013
#24 ·
Lawrence Bailey77 said:Kevin Nguyen3, did you really just deconstruct both him and his buddy in a few short sentences? It’s almost like you were playing The Mentalist on fast-forward here.

It isn't that I don't trust your judgment, per se, but if you'll permit me to be blunt... it all feels a bit... strained, I suppose. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but could you perhaps elaborate? I wonder if we're truly being as "thorough" as we think we are, or if we might be missing the finer points.😉

🤣

But you know how it goes—people act all interested in helping until things get heavy, then they suddenly find an excuse to bail.
Dealing with any kind of disorder isn't a game... you're either fully in it or you aren't. Period.

So many people claim they're "ready" to step up, only to change their minds once they realize it's for someone else's actual "well-being."

Just ask anyone living with BPD... one minute they adore you, and the next, they've vanished into thin air.

And how does that feel for the person who's actually suffering? Honestly, screw that.
If we don't know how to help, it's better to just step aside beforehand. Believe it or not, that's a form of help too.
Michael Morgan5 Michael Morgan5 Active MemberOP
141 messages
joined Dec 2015
#25 ·
Kevin Nguyen3 said:So, you tried to be "polite"—at both your expense and his—by carefully weighing your words so you wouldn't seem rude, trying to excuse his mess.
And what did that achieve?
Absolutely nothing.

Your hesitance and this deep, overly analytical brooding have only pushed him further away from health and pushed you further away from him, believe me.

He needs urgent medical treatment under professional supervision, but given the current circumstances, there is simply nothing you can do there.

Taking a stand isn't an insult; it's genuine help. It shouldn't be wrapped in cellophane or handled with kid gloves.
No one can force anyone to do anything, but you can—even brutally—show them the reality of the state they are in.
And as your title suggests, he is currently in deep sh--.

Why are you acting this way?
We know one reason... his attitude toward you and your stance on his condition.
You pulled back to avoid a repeat of... well, that.
But now, while being "withdrawn," you're already making these flawed plans under the guise of helping a friend.
Understand this: he can only be helped by the one truth sitting between you, which is serious, intensive treatment—even if it ruins the friendship, because his health has to come first.
Even if you two stop talking tomorrow, wouldn't you be happy to hear that he's doing better?
But when someone actually gets better, these kinds of messes don't happen.

I never claimed otherwise.
But then why the hell did she call me?
wanderingangler13 wanderingangler13 Active Member
74 messages
joined Jul 2010
#26 ·
I don't think this is going to end well. Not only did she dodge all responsibility, but wasn't she actually trained to assess someone's condition? It shouldn't be on you (those psychiatrists🙄) to make the call, yet she's shoved you into a position where YOU have to decide for him...
.
....And honestly, if you had given the worst-case scenario, would they even hospitalize him? You aren't family, so who knows what kind of weight your word actually carries. Plus, after everything, she could just easily say, "Look, I can't force you guys to take his meds," and then your friend ends up turning against you...

..If you ask me, talk to someone in his circle—someone you think might actually listen, even if everyone else is acting indifferent like you said—lay out the situation, and then get out of the way. I wouldn't recommend trying to play therapist yourself; it'll just drag both of you straight down to the bottom...
Henry Lopez13 Henry Lopez13 Member
18 messages
joined Dec 2012
#27 ·
Kevin Nguyen3 said:🤣

But you know how it goes—people act all interested in helping until things get heavy, then they suddenly find an excuse to bail.
Dealing with any kind of disorder isn't a game... you're either fully in it or you aren't. Period.

So many people claim they're "ready" to step up, only to change their minds once they realize it's for someone else's actual "well-being."

Just ask anyone living with BPD... one minute they adore you, and the next, they've vanished into thin air.

And how does that feel for the person who's actually suffering? Honestly, screw that.
If we don't know how to help, it's better to just step aside beforehand. Believe it or not, that's a form of help too.

So, would it have been any better if he hadn't answered the psychiatrist's call to come over after hours?
wanderingangler13 wanderingangler13 Active Member
74 messages
joined Jul 2010
#28 ·
Henry Lopez13 said:So, would it have been any better if he hadn't answered the psychiatrist's call to come over after hours?

It’s possible. She might have had an easier time deciding his friend was struggling if there wasn't anyone around to back up his claim that he was doing fine. But hey, no use crying over spilled milk...
Kevin Nguyen3 Kevin Nguyen3 Regular
425 messages
joined May 2013
#29 ·
Henry Lopez13 said:So, would it have been any better if he hadn't answered the psychiatrist's call to come over after hours?

That isn't really the point at all.
Of course he should have answered the call! But once he was actually sitting there in that office, he needed to lay it all out—exactly how it happened, maybe even adding a few more details than necessary.

That is the only way anyone can truly help. I’m speaking hypothetically, of course... only God knows if helping him is even possible at this stage.
The doctor went into that session expecting a filtered version of the truth, and frankly, she got exactly what she expected: just a few scattered pieces of a much larger mosaic.
Which is precisely why he was asked to come in, wasn't it?

If I had been standing there in that room, I would have jumped straight to the most important question: how can I, specifically, help my friend??
Let's hear some actual recommendations or whatever else they might suggest.

As it stands now, both of them walked out of that office empty-handed, and nothing was accomplished whatsoever.
Austin Baker4 Austin Baker4 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Aug 2014
#30 ·
I find it incredibly hypocritical to judge someone for not stepping up and taking full responsibility for another person's struggles—specifically in this situation where he hasn't shouldered the entire burden of his friend's care.

To me, it feels entirely hypocritical. I am genuinely curious to see how many of you would actually neglect your own lives just to care for someone who isn't even immediate family. It takes an immense amount of time, logistical planning, and significant financial resources. We all have jobs, we all have our own families, and we all have responsibilities to manage...

If his own family isn't looking out for him, then I suppose everything will eventually boil down to a shrug and a "sorry, tough luck." Beyond that... anything else people say is nothing more than empty internet rhetoric...
Austin Baker4 Austin Baker4 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Aug 2014
#31 ·
Michael Morgan5 said:I never claimed otherwise.
But then why the hell did she call me?

She called you because she was trying to offload the burden and the responsibility onto someone else. That’s exactly why she mentioned "a family member" coming by—since you don't fall into that category, she couldn't dump the liability or the decision-making on your head. I don't know what part of that is confusing to you.
Michael Morgan5 Michael Morgan5 Active MemberOP
141 messages
joined Dec 2015
#32 ·
Look, I get the whole picture.
Our healthcare system is a total joke—if you actually get sick, you’re basically on your own.

I spent some time with him today, and he’s finally starting to turn a corner.
He’s still seeing things that aren't there, but at least he isn't making a huge scene about it anymore.

Who knows how long this phase is going to drag on.

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