School Reform: Thoughts?

Larry Walker24 said:Since I work in STEM, I can tell you straight up—they're lying through their teeth!

I can give you the full breakdown in a private message.

Who exactly is lying?🍿
Mathematicians, physicists, computer scientists, chemists—there's a chronic shortage there.
Salaries are just as ridiculous as people say here, and honestly, I don't think anyone in their right mind would choose teaching if they had the option to work at some research institute, a major bank, or a solid tech firm.
The whole education reform is a complete mess; nobody seems to know who's calling the shots or who's footing the bill, and morale is pretty much bottomed out.

Just share whatever you know here.😉

From what I've seen, we have an absolutely massive problem finding science specialists—or to use the trendy term, STEM professionals—whenever we need a substitute, whether it's for a short stint or something long-term.
We end up scrambling for months on end, and colleagues in those departments are constantly getting pulled away to cover classes twice as often because, frankly, you can't find a recent grad to fill a gap for even two or three months, let alone someone with actual engineering or professor-level experience.

I don't even know where to start with this one. Honestly, just looking at the thread makes my blood boil. People really think they can just say whatever they want without any consequences, and then act all surprised when things get heated. It’s exhausting. I'm sitting here trying to have a chill morning with my coffee, and I stumble into this mess? Give me a break. kaže:
Who's lying?🍿
We’ve got a massive, chronic shortage of mathematicians, physicists, software engineers, and chemists. It's getting ridiculous.
Look, this place is exactly as ridiculous as it sounds. Nobody in their right mind is going to choose a career in academia if they have the option to land a gig at a top-tier research institute, a major bank like JPMorgan, or some high-paying tech firm. It’s just common sense.
The whole reform is a complete train wreck. This "life skills" curriculum thing? It’s a joke. Nobody knows who’s calling the shots or who’s actually footing the bill. People are losing their minds out there.

Drop what you know right here.😉

I’m telling you, it is an absolute nightmare trying to find a decent naturalist—or if you want to sound trendy, a "STEM professional"—whenever we need a replacement. Whether it's for a quick fix or some long-term thing, finding someone who actually knows their stuff is basically impossible.
We’ve been struggling to keep our heads above water for months now. My colleagues over at the tech firms are constantly scrambling to cover shifts because you can't find a single decent entry-level grad to fill a gap, let alone a senior engineer or a professor. It's a joke.

Directors are full of it. None of them actually ran a public search for someone with, say, a biology or chemistry background, so everything they feed to the press is just pure fiction. They tell one story to the media and then there's the actual reality on the ground. It's a joke.

So they’re just straight-up lying. Typical.

I’m out here busting my ass and nobody wants to pick me up from Chicago. It doesn't even matter if it's a swap or whatever—it’s obvious I’ll just have to head back to Germany or the UK, only this time I'll be gone for a lot longer. Honestly, let the students take over the teaching, and maybe then the directors will actually start paying decent wages so they can find someone to do the job.

Larry Walker24 said:

I don't even know where to start with this one. Honestly, just looking at the thread makes my blood boil. People really think they can just say whatever they want without any consequences, and then act all surprised when things get heated. It’s exhausting. I'm sitting here trying to have a chill morning with my coffee, and I stumble into this mess? Give me a break. kaže:
Who's lying?🍿
We’ve got a massive, chronic shortage of mathematicians, physicists, software engineers, and chemists. It's getting ridiculous.
Look, this place is exactly as ridiculous as it sounds. Nobody in their right mind is going to choose a career in academia if they have the option to land a gig at a top-tier research institute, a major bank like JPMorgan, or some high-paying tech firm. It’s just common sense.
The whole reform is a complete train wreck. This "life skills" curriculum thing? It’s a joke. Nobody knows who’s calling the shots or who’s actually footing the bill. People are losing their minds out there.

Drop what you know right here.😉

I’m telling you, it is an absolute nightmare trying to find a decent naturalist—or if you want to sound trendy, a "STEM professional"—whenever we need a replacement. Whether it's for a quick fix or some long-term thing, finding someone who actually knows their stuff is basically impossible.
We’ve been struggling to keep our heads above water for months now. My colleagues over at the tech firms are constantly scrambling to cover shifts because you can't find a single decent entry-level grad to fill a gap, let alone a senior engineer or a professor. It's a joke.

Directors are full of it. None of them actually ran a public search for someone with, say, a biology or chemistry background, so everything they feed to the press is just pure fiction. They tell one story to the media and then there's the actual reality on the ground. It's a joke.

So they’re just straight-up lying. Typical.

I’m out here busting my ass and nobody wants to pick me up from Chicago. It doesn't even matter if it's a swap or whatever—it’s obvious I’ll just have to head back to Germany or the UK, only this time I'll be gone for a lot longer. Honestly, let the students take over the teaching, and maybe then the directors will actually start paying decent wages so they can find someone to do the job.

Actually, I'm not quite sure what you're referring to—like, what specific details or which subject we're talking about—but from what I've seen, it seems to align pretty closely with this article. I don't mean to generalize about specific schools, but there's definitely a shortage of science teachers that's starting to cause some real chaos in the classrooms

urbantinker8 said:Actually, I'm not quite sure what you're referring to—like, what specific details or which subject we're talking about—but from what I've seen, it seems to align pretty closely with this article. I don't mean to generalize about specific schools, but there's definitely a shortage of science teachers that's starting to cause some real chaos in the classrooms

Look, I'm talking about those specific high schools mentioned in the article. Those places didn't even put out job postings for biologists or chemists, yet the article claims they can't find anyone to hire. They're straight-up lying.

I teach bio/chem myself.

Larry Walker24 said:Look, I'm talking about those specific high schools mentioned in the article. Those places didn't even put out job postings for biologists or chemists, yet the article claims they can't find anyone to hire. They're straight-up lying.

I teach bio/chem myself.

Could you share your thoughts on the recent decision by the College of Natural Sciences to require a full five-year integrated program for anyone wanting to become a math or physics teacher? It seems a bit ironic that they're complaining about unfilled enrollment quotas now.

Personally, I feel like a three-year degree should be more than enough to qualify for teaching in public schools. As it stands, anyone with enough brainpower to tackle a rigorous science curriculum tends to pivot toward engineering immediately after graduation because the career prospects and salary ceilings are just so much higher. If they offered a standard three-year track, I honestly think we’d see a much larger pool of applicants... especially if they allowed students the option to tack on those extra two years for an engineering specialization later on.

I don't have any text to work with yet! Please provide the posts you want me to rewrite, and I'll get right on it. kaže:
What do you guys think about that decision from the State University to force anyone wanting to teach math or physics to go through a full five-year integrated program? It’s such a joke. Then they have the nerve to act all surprised when their enrollment numbers tank because nobody wants to commit half a decade to that grind. Total nonsense.

Honestly, I think a three-year degree should be plenty if you want to teach. If you’ve got enough brains to crush a three-year program, why wouldn't you just pivot straight into engineering? The career prospects and the paychecks are on a whole different level. If we made teaching a three-year deal, way more people would actually sign up for it. Especially if you could just tack on another two years later to bridge over into an engineering track with just a few tweaks. It just makes more sense.

I am 100% with you on this one!!

Look, getting people into college isn't the issue—it's actually getting them through the door to graduate. It’s a total joke. We've got like ten physics professors graduating in a single year? Give me a break.

And most importantly, you can find plenty of professors in big cities like NYC or Chicago, but who’s actually gonna move out to some tiny rural town where wolves are howling right outside your window?

hiddendriver34 said:I’ve never really sat down and dissected this, but I assume a three-year vocational program in the US is designed so kids walk away with more than just technical skills—they should actually come out with some general knowledge and a sense of how the world works. If they’re just learning a specific trade, why bother with three whole years? You can pick up job-specific qualifications in a few months if you're focused. As far as general subjects go, most of them barely need anything from high school.
They don't even need much English instruction since they mastered reading and writing back in elementary school.
Math is pretty much a wash too, because once you've nailed addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division in the second grade, you've got the basics covered.
Sure, a server might need a little foreign language for the customers, but a line cook probably won't use it at all.

Honestly, it feels like they only really need the lower grades of elementary school; everything from fifth grade onward is basically overkill.😁

I was literally just talking about this today. 👍 I guess this is just the next brilliant step in those "reforms" meant to drag us into the 22nd century. We might as well start working at 15. (Not that it matters, since we’ll probably be waiting until we're 115 to retire. 😁)

urbantinker8 said:Actually, I'm not quite sure what you're referring to—like, what specific details or which subject we're talking about—but from what I've seen, it seems to align pretty closely with this article. I don't mean to generalize about specific schools, but there's definitely a shortage of science teachers that's starting to cause some real chaos in the classrooms

Great. I read that article. As a science teacher myself, I've applied to about 50 different openings across the entire US in the last year and haven't landed a single job. Let them keep whining about how they can't find anyone.

Megan Reed said:I was literally just talking about this today. 👍 I guess this is just the next brilliant step in those "reforms" meant to drag us into the 22nd century. We might as well start working at 15. (Not that it matters, since we’ll probably be waiting until we're 115 to retire. 😁)

Great. I read that article. As a science teacher myself, I've applied to about 50 different openings across the entire US in the last year and haven't landed a single job. Let them keep whining about how they can't find anyone.

When you guys are posting about this, it might be helpful to mention which specific subjects or cities you're talking about.
In a place like Chicago, it is incredibly difficult to find math or computer science teachers for the schools. I don't think anyone could convince me otherwise, mostly because I've been witnessing some pretty wild situations for years now.
And, well, I know a bit about what happens in more rural areas, where those same subjects often end up being taught by people who haven't even finished their college degrees.

At my school this year, the kids actually went two whole weeks without a chemistry teacher because nobody stepped up to take the job. They were offering a three-year contract with a solid chance at a permanent position afterward, but still, absolutely nobody applied. :ne zna;

At my school this year, the kids actually went two whole weeks without a chemistry teacher because nobody stepped up to take the job. They were offering a three-year contract with the promise of a permanent position afterward, but still, crickets. :ne zna;

hiddendriver34 said:At my school this year, the kids actually went two whole weeks without a chemistry teacher because nobody stepped up to take the job. They were offering a three-year contract with the promise of a permanent position afterward, but still, crickets. :ne zna;

Well, I suppose that’s actually a decent outcome, considering there are times when you can go several MONTHS without anyone showing interest, even among the graduating seniors.😲

So who's actually teaching the classes then? Is anyone even showing up?

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Some schools are just running on chaos—substitutes who don't know a thing, kids getting schedule changes every single day without even being told... it's a mess. One little kid I work with didn't even have a math teacher for over a month last year, and they basically skipped the whole subject entirely.
(Washington, D.C., high school)

nimblelynx7 said:So who's actually teaching the classes then? Is anyone even showing up?

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I think I mentioned this already.
We try to cover everything internally as much as we possibly can, and honestly, some of my colleagues are out there working double shifts or pulling full days just to make it happen, though I guess a lot of hours get wasted whenever there’s a scheduling conflict.
So, instead of getting that specific subject, they end up being assigned different courses entirely.

Everything basically needs to be squared away by the end of the year. That credit hour requirement has to be met, and there’s no excuse for missing any coursework for whatever reason.

Ultimately, it just boils down to students getting screwed. They'll end up being punished by having to show up on Saturdays, staying late, or rolling in early...

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Quentin:

nimblelynx7 I guess I should probably mention what nimblelynx7 was saying... I guess everything probably needs to be squared away by the end of the year. It feels like that hour requirement really needs to be met, and honestly, it might be a bit of a problem if any of those courses aren't officially completed for whatever reason. It feels like, in the end, it’s all going to boil down to the students being the ones who actually pay the price for this, I guess. It seems likely they'll end up stuck dealing with teachers showing up on Saturdays, staying late, or having to roll in earlier than usual... it just feels like another way to squeeze more out of them. Sent from my Galaxy S7 using Reddit

No, honestly, none of the students are showing up on Saturdays, and there isn't any reason at all why anyone would need to stick around longer or arrive earlier than planned. I guess you might be pulling my leg again.
I guess you could say my colleagues end up staying way, way longer than they probably intended, and sometimes they even show up twice in one shift, which I suppose—if you look at it from a certain angle—is actually our biggest stroke of luck.🙂I guess, if you look at how things usually shake out, they tend to be pretty lenient about those minor discrepancies in the total pool of hours, maybe just letting them slide once the school year finally wraps up.
I mean, you can't exactly just call some random guy off the street who happens to be good at math and expect him to just burst into a classroom, right? There aren't really any other options, I guess.

urbantinker8 said:When you guys are posting about this, it might be helpful to mention which specific subjects or cities you're talking about.
In a place like Chicago, it is incredibly difficult to find math or computer science teachers for the schools. I don't think anyone could convince me otherwise, mostly because I've been witnessing some pretty wild situations for years now.
And, well, I know a bit about what happens in more rural areas, where those same subjects often end up being taught by people who haven't even finished their college degrees.

I’ve been sending out applications all over the country because I know the odds of landing something right here in my hometown—which is basically a small town in the Midwest—aren't great since my degree is in biology. It’s those same issues I mentioned before. I could handle subbing or part-time gigs somewhere within commuting distance, but if we're talking a full-time position, I’m more than willing to pack up and move to the other side of the States. Plus, even though I've finished my teaching credentials, I haven't actually stepped foot in a classroom yet, whereas I know people who started working without them just because they were near schools struggling to find any staff at all. It’s all down to luck. It isn't like I'm refusing to work in a rural area or anything.🙂

Last year, I applied for a biology teacher opening at an elementary school in NYC, only for them to cancel the whole thing later, claiming "no candidates met the requirements." Trust me, I know for a fact that I did.

Megan Reed said:I’ve been sending out applications all over the country because I know the odds of landing something right here in my hometown—which is basically a small town in the Midwest—aren't great since my degree is in biology. It’s those same issues I mentioned before. I could handle subbing or part-time gigs somewhere within commuting distance, but if we're talking a full-time position, I’m more than willing to pack up and move to the other side of the States. Plus, even though I've finished my teaching credentials, I haven't actually stepped foot in a classroom yet, whereas I know people who started working without them just because they were near schools struggling to find any staff at all. It’s all down to luck. It isn't like I'm refusing to work in a rural area or anything.🙂

Last year, I applied for a biology teacher opening at an elementary school in NYC, only for them to cancel the whole thing later, claiming "no candidates met the requirements." Trust me, I know for a fact that I did.

Regarding that last point: you definitely have grounds for an appeal if things actually played out the way you described.
I can't speak for what's happening in Des Moines, but I know how it works in New York City—specifically, finding math or computer science teachers is a total disaster, whereas biology isn't nearly as much of a struggle.

urbantinker8 said:Regarding that last point: you definitely have grounds for an appeal if things actually played out the way you described.
I can't speak for what's happening in Des Moines, but I know how it works in New York City—specifically, finding math or computer science teachers is a total disaster, whereas biology isn't nearly as much of a struggle.

I didn't bother appealing. They just reposted the job opening and picked someone else. I've realized that a lot of these hiring processes follow this frustrating pattern: post the job, cancel it, then repost it until they find exactly who they want. When you see that happening, it starts looking less like a fair search and more like a rigged game.

I even heard from my contact over at the State Employment Agency that finding Bio/Chem teachers is becoming a massive headache. Back when I was in college in a mid-sized city like Columbus, you wouldn't even see ten people enrolling in the teaching track. But nowadays, you have plenty of people who specialized in just biology or just chemistry, yet these job postings specifically demand a dual-certified teacher. They really need to split those listings up. Sure, it might mean some teachers don't get a full schedule, but isn't it better to have a biologist teach biology and a chemist teach chemistry rather than forcing a single person to do both just because the requirements are too narrow?

Honestly, I barely even apply for positions that require chemistry, even though I could technically cover it at a middle school level. I’d only consider it if it were out in some tiny rural town where they absolutely couldn't find anyone else.

Just recently, there was an opening in a small town outside of a major Midwestern hub for a Bio/Chem teacher, and twenty-seven candidates applied. So, it's not like there's a shortage of qualified people. I don't follow the trends for other science subjects—I stay focused on my own field—but it’s infuriating to read about a food technology major teaching biology while I, a literal biologist, can't even land a four-hour subbing gig. If anything, we're going to have a surplus of biologists soon enough, considering how many enroll in the big state universities.

Honestly, trying to track down my profile for an English-German swap is becoming a total nightmare—it’s almost impossible. It feels like everyone just assumes we have to split subjects up now because finding one single person willing to trade both languages is such a long shot. But, you know, when you leave the search open-ended without those restrictions... man, you get hit with way more requests. 😉