Personal accounts of brief vs. permanent awakenings

I think I drifted in and out of consciousness a few times.

I couldn't even tell what time it was because the blackout curtains were pulled shut...

rustymaker5 said:I suppose you could argue it looks that way simply because no two people ever truly share the exact same lived experience or mental framework, especially since the world we inhabit is entirely subjective—two different Americans will always perceive and process the same event through completely different lenses.
But honestly, I think what matters most is what one actually gains from this supposed "awakening," regardless of how it happens, and to me, it seems like they all lead to the same positive shifts—this profound sense that everything is interconnected, which naturally fosters a greater feeling of community and a genuine love for life in all its messy glory, followed by a certain kind of inner stillness as those various anxieties just... fade away, along with the constant, exhausting need to compete or dominate others, until you finally crystallize around the realization that the most important thing in life is simply treating people the way you'd want to be treated... and it’s almost as if these "awakened" individuals become, for lack of a better word, "better" versions of themselves, both toward their own souls and toward everyone else... 🤷

But why on earth would you need spirituality to achieve any of that?
I mean, seriously, why does everything you just described have to be explained through the lens of spirituality alone?

Peter Phillips32 said:But why on earth would you need spirituality to achieve any of that?
I mean, seriously, why does everything you just described have to be explained through the lens of spirituality alone?

It’s because deep down, inside yourself... you just know. Once it happens, your entire life shifts, and suddenly people with similar experiences start appearing in your life without you even seeking them out or trying to steer things toward them.
That’s a firsthand experience—a type of internal knowing that doesn't require reading a book or listening to someone else's story. From the very first moment, there's no need to try and convince anyone else of what has become a fundamental part of who you are, which brings an incredible sense of security and freedom. You might feel a momentary flash of worry or pause to wonder if something is going wrong, but internally, you just know you're experiencing something truly beautiful.

All this arguing and mocking honestly becomes such an exhausting, pointless waste of energy.

I’ve been an atheist who hasn't touched a single spiritual book in thirty years; I used to believe everything could be explained away by brain chemistry and biology. But when my own turning point finally arrived, I knew exactly what was happening. I wasn't confused, and I didn't need anyone to explain it to me... everything was clear, and everything was already within me.

Anthony Cook8 said:It’s because deep down, inside yourself... you just know. Once it happens, your entire life shifts, and suddenly people with similar experiences start appearing in your life without you even seeking them out or trying to steer things toward them.
That’s a firsthand experience—a type of internal knowing that doesn't require reading a book or listening to someone else's story. From the very first moment, there's no need to try and convince anyone else of what has become a fundamental part of who you are, which brings an incredible sense of security and freedom. You might feel a momentary flash of worry or pause to wonder if something is going wrong, but internally, you just know you're experiencing something truly beautiful.

All this arguing and mocking honestly becomes such an exhausting, pointless waste of energy.

I’ve been an atheist who hasn't touched a single spiritual book in thirty years; I used to believe everything could be explained away by brain chemistry and biology. But when my own turning point finally arrived, I knew exactly what was happening. I wasn't confused, and I didn't need anyone to explain it to me... everything was clear, and everything was already within me.

That’s how you can justify basically any belief system out there: Catholics, Muslims, Hare Krishnas, Sai Baba followers, Eckhart Tolle fans, Osho disciples, astrology buffs, or even those convinced they were abducted by aliens.

And honestly, I really don't get why I should stick with something just because I felt some sort of "peak experience" that seemed like the best thing ever at the time. Since when did an emotional high or being chemically intoxicated by a feeling become proof that some baseless idea is actually true? Because if these ideas actually made sense, they could answer two simple questions in a way that actually holds water, but they can't.

all that arguing and snarking just becomes an incredibly exhausting, pointless waste of energy.....

Yeah, I hear you, I totally get where you're coming from. When you're busy validating everyone else who thinks exactly like you and preaches exactly like you, suddenly you're overflowing with infinite love, gratitude, and a deep connection to the universe.

But the moment you have to go toe-to-toe with someone who doesn't see eye-to-eye with you, suddenly talking becomes a "pointless drain on your energy," and anyone with a different opinion gets labeled as an agitator, a negative person, or just someone being a jerk.

Because when you're backing up your own tribe, words carry weight and meaning, but when you're dealing with dissenters, words apparently lose all their power to describe reality.

No biggie. Just toss my opinions aside, and once you decide I'm too far gone, you can go right back to feeling that "infinite love and oneness" with everything—except, of course, with anyone who disagrees.

I'm an atheist who hasn't touched a spiritual book in 30 years; I used to be able to explain everything through brain chemistry and biology, but when the shift happened, I knew exactly what was going on... I wasn't confused, I didn't need explanations... everything was clear and everything was already inside me.

This is just a variation of the appeal to authority fallacy. It doesn't matter that you were an atheist before or how many years it's been.

Sure, you could explain everything via neurons and chemicals, but you can't answer two basic questions without getting all muddy and poetic about it. It's not even a question. Why on earth would you trade clarity for total ambiguity just because you had an emotional binge?

All these "theories" are either true or false—or, as you put it, right or wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own perspective on reality and their own opinions. Unfortunately, those at the top dictate what most people accept as truth based on their own biases. It’s that classic "I knew it all along" effect seen in the immature, indecisive, and insecure crowds... which happens to be the majority. Sadly. As for me... I once had a moment where I actually predicted a very simple event. That was my brush with the supernatural. Personally, I believe terms like prophecy, clairvoyance, telepathy, or lucid dreaming are essentially the SAME THING. It's just like when you realize your best friend is hurting, and after a few words, you suddenly understand why even though they haven't said a word. This is simply a "higher," more evolved level that occurs, I'd say, in people with a much more developed sense of consciousness and self-awareness.

slynomad79 said:All these "theories" are either true or false—or, as you put it, right or wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own perspective on reality and their own opinions. Unfortunately, those at the top dictate what most people accept as truth based on their own biases. It’s that classic "I knew it all along" effect seen in the immature, indecisive, and insecure crowds... which happens to be the majority. Sadly. As for me... I once had a moment where I actually predicted a very simple event. That was my brush with the supernatural. Personally, I believe terms like prophecy, clairvoyance, telepathy, or lucid dreaming are essentially the SAME THING. It's just like when you realize your best friend is hurting, and after a few words, you suddenly understand why even though they haven't said a word. This is simply a "higher," more evolved level that occurs, I'd say, in people with a much more developed sense of consciousness and self-awareness.

That's just how it is for now 🙂 😉

slynomad79 said:All these "theories" are either true or false—or, as you put it, right or wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own perspective on reality and their own opinions. Unfortunately, those at the top dictate what most people accept as truth based on their own biases. It’s that classic "I knew it all along" effect seen in the immature, indecisive, and insecure crowds... which happens to be the majority. Sadly. As for me... I once had a moment where I actually predicted a very simple event. That was my brush with the supernatural. Personally, I believe terms like prophecy, clairvoyance, telepathy, or lucid dreaming are essentially the SAME THING. It's just like when you realize your best friend is hurting, and after a few words, you suddenly understand why even though they haven't said a word. This is simply a "higher," more evolved level that occurs, I'd say, in people with a much more developed sense of consciousness and self-awareness.

Totally agree! All these different but identical concepts really just point back to one normal way of seeing things, no matter how they show up. They just pop up effortlessly whenever they need to...

You just "know" 🤷
But how do you "know"? You don't have a clue 🙂 it just happens. It guides you... you aren't floating "with" the whole thing... you ARE the Whole...

slynomad79 said:All these "theories" are either true or false—or, as you put it, right or wrong. Everyone is entitled to their own perspective on reality and their own opinions. Unfortunately, those at the top dictate what most people accept as truth based on their own biases. It’s that classic "I knew it all along" effect seen in the immature, indecisive, and insecure crowds... which happens to be the majority. Sadly. As for me... I once had a moment where I actually predicted a very simple event. That was my brush with the supernatural. Personally, I believe terms like prophecy, clairvoyance, telepathy, or lucid dreaming are essentially the SAME THING. It's just like when you realize your best friend is hurting, and after a few words, you suddenly understand why even though they haven't said a word. This is simply a "higher," more evolved level that occurs, I'd say, in people with a much more developed sense of consciousness and self-awareness.

And man, we are so "close" to that "higher," "advanced" "level."
But people with "unrefined" or "lower" levels of Consciousness can reach that same "level" too...🙂

I'd really love to see Popokatepetl and Teotihuacán one day, and I "know" I will...

Peter Phillips32 said:That’s how you can justify basically any belief system out there: Catholics, Muslims, Hare Krishnas, Sai Baba followers, Eckhart Tolle fans, Osho disciples, astrology buffs, or even those convinced they were abducted by aliens.

And honestly, I really don't get why I should stick with something just because I felt some sort of "peak experience" that seemed like the best thing ever at the time. Since when did an emotional high or being chemically intoxicated by a feeling become proof that some baseless idea is actually true? Because if these ideas actually made sense, they could answer two simple questions in a way that actually holds water, but they can't.

all that arguing and snarking just becomes an incredibly exhausting, pointless waste of energy.....

Yeah, I hear you, I totally get where you're coming from. When you're busy validating everyone else who thinks exactly like you and preaches exactly like you, suddenly you're overflowing with infinite love, gratitude, and a deep connection to the universe.

But the moment you have to go toe-to-toe with someone who doesn't see eye-to-eye with you, suddenly talking becomes a "pointless drain on your energy," and anyone with a different opinion gets labeled as an agitator, a negative person, or just someone being a jerk.

Because when you're backing up your own tribe, words carry weight and meaning, but when you're dealing with dissenters, words apparently lose all their power to describe reality.

No biggie. Just toss my opinions aside, and once you decide I'm too far gone, you can go right back to feeling that "infinite love and oneness" with everything—except, of course, with anyone who disagrees.

I'm an atheist who hasn't touched a spiritual book in 30 years; I used to be able to explain everything through brain chemistry and biology, but when the shift happened, I knew exactly what was going on... I wasn't confused, I didn't need explanations... everything was clear and everything was already inside me.

This is just a variation of the appeal to authority fallacy. It doesn't matter that you were an atheist before or how many years it's been.

Sure, you could explain everything via neurons and chemicals, but you can't answer two basic questions without getting all muddy and poetic about it. It's not even a question. Why on earth would you trade clarity for total ambiguity just because you had an emotional binge?

I’ve started this thread because I’d love to hear about your own experiences with waking up. It’s such a personal part of the day, isn't it?
Nobody asked for your opinion, your lectures, or your negativity. Honestly, nobody requested your take on a situation you haven't even lived through personally, so I have to wonder—why do you feel such a desperate need to meddle?

Nobody here is asking for help or expressing any doubt. It honestly makes me wonder why you’re even hanging around this thread. You clearly don't belong in this circle, yet you're still here despite having nothing to contribute.

Simple and refreshing div>

rustymaker5 said:I suppose you could argue it looks that way simply because no two people ever truly share the exact same lived experience or mental framework, especially since the world we inhabit is entirely subjective—two different Americans will always perceive and process the same event through completely different lenses.
But honestly, I think what matters most is what one actually gains from this supposed "awakening," regardless of how it happens, and to me, it seems like they all lead to the same positive shifts—this profound sense that everything is interconnected, which naturally fosters a greater feeling of community and a genuine love for life in all its messy glory, followed by a certain kind of inner stillness as those various anxieties just... fade away, along with the constant, exhausting need to compete or dominate others, until you finally crystallize around the realization that the most important thing in life is simply treating people the way you'd want to be treated... and it’s almost as if these "awakened" individuals become, for lack of a better word, "better" versions of themselves, both toward their own souls and toward everyone else... 🤷

And honestly, it goes even deeper than that! Even the same person, just by shifting their perspective, can view the exact same phenomenon through completely different lenses. This means that one single occurrence could leave an observer feeling anything from a faint impression to something mid-range, or even incredibly intense...

Peter Phillips32 said:That’s how you can justify basically any belief system out there: Catholics, Muslims, Hare Krishnas, Sai Baba followers, Eckhart Tolle fans, Osho disciples, astrology buffs, or even those convinced they were abducted by aliens.

And honestly, I really don't get why I should stick with something just because I felt some sort of "peak experience" that seemed like the best thing ever at the time. Since when did an emotional high or being chemically intoxicated by a feeling become proof that some baseless idea is actually true? Because if these ideas actually made sense, they could answer two simple questions in a way that actually holds water, but they can't.

all that arguing and snarking just becomes an incredibly exhausting, pointless waste of energy.....

Yeah, I hear you, I totally get where you're coming from. When you're busy validating everyone else who thinks exactly like you and preaches exactly like you, suddenly you're overflowing with infinite love, gratitude, and a deep connection to the universe.

But the moment you have to go toe-to-toe with someone who doesn't see eye-to-eye with you, suddenly talking becomes a "pointless drain on your energy," and anyone with a different opinion gets labeled as an agitator, a negative person, or just someone being a jerk.

Because when you're backing up your own tribe, words carry weight and meaning, but when you're dealing with dissenters, words apparently lose all their power to describe reality.

No biggie. Just toss my opinions aside, and once you decide I'm too far gone, you can go right back to feeling that "infinite love and oneness" with everything—except, of course, with anyone who disagrees.

I'm an atheist who hasn't touched a spiritual book in 30 years; I used to be able to explain everything through brain chemistry and biology, but when the shift happened, I knew exactly what was going on... I wasn't confused, I didn't need explanations... everything was clear and everything was already inside me.

This is just a variation of the appeal to authority fallacy. It doesn't matter that you were an atheist before or how many years it's been.

Sure, you could explain everything via neurons and chemicals, but you can't answer two basic questions without getting all muddy and poetic about it. It's not even a question. Why on earth would you trade clarity for total ambiguity just because you had an emotional binge?

But see, that's where you're tripping yourself up! You're incorrectly grouping other types of experiences into this "emotional" category as if emotion is the only source of experience. The truth is, those other experiences directly influence our emotions, the quality of our thoughts, and pretty much everything else—but we aren't talking about emotional rushes or similar whims as the primary experience here. What you're describing is actually a secondary consequence. I think maybe some people confuse various emotional sensations with things that exist entirely outside of emotion and imagination, and that leads them totally astray, but that's just not the case!

If, say, there really was a shift in consciousness—whether brief or long-lasting—then emotions and thoughts start to feel more like objects being observed—just something secondary in the "order" of things.

Anthony Cook8 said:I’ve started this thread because I’d love to hear about your own experiences with waking up. It’s such a personal part of the day, isn't it?
Nobody asked for your opinion, your lectures, or your negativity. Honestly, nobody requested your take on a situation you haven't even lived through personally, so I have to wonder—why do you feel such a desperate need to meddle?

Nobody here is asking for help or expressing any doubt. It honestly makes me wonder why you’re even hanging around this thread. You clearly don't belong in this circle, yet you're still here despite having nothing to contribute.

Star, just listen to that P. S. advice, it's solid. Don't waste too much of your endless light on things that don't matter...

Peter Phillips32 said:That’s how you can justify basically any belief system out there: Catholics, Muslims, Hare Krishnas, Sai Baba followers, Eckhart Tolle fans, Osho disciples, astrology buffs, or even those convinced they were abducted by aliens.

And honestly, I really don't get why I should stick with something just because I felt some sort of "peak experience" that seemed like the best thing ever at the time. Since when did an emotional high or being chemically intoxicated by a feeling become proof that some baseless idea is actually true? Because if these ideas actually made sense, they could answer two simple questions in a way that actually holds water, but they can't.

all that arguing and snarking just becomes an incredibly exhausting, pointless waste of energy.....

Yeah, I hear you, I totally get where you're coming from. When you're busy validating everyone else who thinks exactly like you and preaches exactly like you, suddenly you're overflowing with infinite love, gratitude, and a deep connection to the universe.

But the moment you have to go toe-to-toe with someone who doesn't see eye-to-eye with you, suddenly talking becomes a "pointless drain on your energy," and anyone with a different opinion gets labeled as an agitator, a negative person, or just someone being a jerk.

Because when you're backing up your own tribe, words carry weight and meaning, but when you're dealing with dissenters, words apparently lose all their power to describe reality.

No biggie. Just toss my opinions aside, and once you decide I'm too far gone, you can go right back to feeling that "infinite love and oneness" with everything—except, of course, with anyone who disagrees.

I'm an atheist who hasn't touched a spiritual book in 30 years; I used to be able to explain everything through brain chemistry and biology, but when the shift happened, I knew exactly what was going on... I wasn't confused, I didn't need explanations... everything was clear and everything was already inside me.

This is just a variation of the appeal to authority fallacy. It doesn't matter that you were an atheist before or how many years it's been.

Sure, you could explain everything via neurons and chemicals, but you can't answer two basic questions without getting all muddy and poetic about it. It's not even a question. Why on earth would you trade clarity for total ambiguity just because you had an emotional binge?

😢 I totally get where you're coming from! Those mental battles are brutal, exhausting, and just plain frustrating, and they usually just end up making everything feel even heavier. It’s because you're focusing right on them. Honestly, the thoughts themselves aren't even that big of a deal.

I really feel for you because I've been exactly where you are. Just take a breather, put on some Enigma, and let your thoughts flow "without thinking about them"—just let them drift wherever they want, or let them leave on their own accord... they always eventually wander off by themselves....... just let go without trying to let go...........

Anthony Cook8 said:I’ve started this thread because I’d love to hear about your own experiences with waking up. It’s such a personal part of the day, isn't it?
Nobody asked for your opinion, your lectures, or your negativity. Honestly, nobody requested your take on a situation you haven't even lived through personally, so I have to wonder—why do you feel such a desperate need to meddle?

Nobody here is asking for help or expressing any doubt. It honestly makes me wonder why you’re even hanging around this thread. You clearly don't belong in this circle, yet you're still here despite having nothing to contribute.

That’s exactly why I jumped into this thread in the first place. ☕

Look, nobody actually asked for your two cents, your unsolicited lectures, or all this negativity you're spewing. Nobody requested your little deep dive into stuff you haven't even lived through yourself, so I've gotta wonder—what's with this desperate need to meddle in everything?

And why on earth doesn't anyone ever bother asking the real question—like, where did all that supposed infinite love and deep connection with the universe go the second you actually had to deal with me?

Look, nobody here is out here begging for help or acting all uncertain about anything, so I’ve gotta ask—what on earth are you even doing here? Seriously, you're hanging out in a thread where you clearly don't belong, adding absolutely zero value to the conversation, yet somehow you're still lurking around like you've got something to say... why?

Man, you just showered me with such an endless amount of love. Honestly, I’m already starting to feel this deep connection you have with everything out there—including, apparently, with me.

Come on, just keep loving me, please.

I honestly don't even know where to start with this one because everything feels like such a massive, tangled mess, but here we go. I was sitting there thinking about how much energy people waste on trivialities when the whole damn structure of our reality is basically a house of cards waiting for a breeze, you know? It’s like everyone is running around in circles, completely oblivious to the fact that the floor isn't even solid under their feet. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm probably just overthinking things—classic me, right?—but there's this pervasive sense that we're all just sleepwalking through this giant, simulated existence without even realizing the script has already been written. It’s exhausting just watching it happen, honestly. Anyway, I'm rambling, I know, but sometimes you just have to say the damn thing out loud before it drives you absolutely insane. says:
Look, you're totally tripping here—you’re making this massive mistake by trying to shove every other kind of experience into that "emotional" bucket like it's the only source of truth out there. Don't get me wrong, those other experiences definitely bleed into how we feel and they absolutely mess with the quality of our thoughts and pretty much everything else, but we aren't talking about some fleeting emotional high or whatever similar nonsense being the primary way we perceive reality. What you're describing is just a secondary reaction, a byproduct, if you will. I don't know, maybe some people just can't help but blur the line between actual emotional sensations and things that exist entirely outside of feelings and imagination, and they end up completely deluded about the whole thing, but honestly? That's just not how it works at all.

Why am I even bothering to explain myself if you just completely misread that part anyway? Seriously, it’s like talking to a brick wall sometimes. Anyway, here’s a dead simple question for you—pretty much identical to the one I asked before that you managed to totally butcher.

So, what exactly gives you the right to be so damn sure that your little theories about the supernatural are some kind of indisputable Truth, you know, with a capital T?
And just what exactly makes you think your core beliefs are any better or more "correct" than someone else's fundamental convictions when they’re spinning a completely different story about the supernatural?

So, if we’re actually talking about a genuine shift in paradigm consciousness—I mean, if that thing really happens—then suddenly all those fleeting emotions and random thoughts just kind of lose their grip on you. They stop being this overwhelming storm and start feeling more like objects you're just observing from the sidelines, you know? Like they’re just secondary little things passing through the actual order of things.

So, what even is consciousness? Honestly, it’s one of those questions that makes you want to stare at a wall for three hours straight because once you start pulling on that thread, the whole sweater just unravels in your hands. It’s not just about being awake or staring blankly at a screen while scrolling through endless feeds; it’s that deeper, weirder thing—that internal flicker that makes you *you*. We spend our entire lives navigating this reality, bumping into things, making choices, and yet we can't quite pin down the essence of the thing itself. Is it just some biological byproduct of neurons firing off like crazy in your brain, or is there something more profound happening, something closer to a total paradigm consciousness? I don't know, man. I'm probably overthinking it, but sometimes you feel like you're on the edge of a massive awakening, only to realize you were just hungry and needed a burger. It's a trip.
What exactly is this thing in our paradigm consciousness that's supposedly capable of shifting around, and where exactly is it supposed to be moving to?
Why is it that some people can shift their paradigm consciousness just a little bit, while others can push it way further?
I mean, if someone can't even trigger that initial shift on their own, what exactly is the catalyst that finally makes that first movement happen?
And what does it actually look like when thoughts and emotions suddenly start appearing as things you're just observing from the outside?
What kind of cosmic order are we looking at if our own thoughts can just become secondary to us?
Where does this whole hierarchy of existence even take place?

Look, let's dive into this stuff so I can actually wrap my head around what you're getting at.

wearyowl29 said:I think I drifted in and out of consciousness a few times.

I couldn't even tell what time it was because the blackout curtains were pulled shut...

either you reached "awakening" and then "fell asleep" while still being "awake." 🙂

Seriously, tell us more about that, even just a little bit 🙂
...

nimblewolf11 said:And honestly, it goes even deeper than that! Even the same person, just by shifting their perspective, can view the exact same phenomenon through completely different lenses. This means that one single occurrence could leave an observer feeling anything from a faint impression to something mid-range, or even incredibly intense...

But see, that's where you're tripping yourself up! You're incorrectly grouping other types of experiences into this "emotional" category as if emotion is the only source of experience. The truth is, those other experiences directly influence our emotions, the quality of our thoughts, and pretty much everything else—but we aren't talking about emotional rushes or similar whims as the primary experience here. What you're describing is actually a secondary consequence. I think maybe some people confuse various emotional sensations with things that exist entirely outside of emotion and imagination, and that leads them totally astray, but that's just not the case!

If, say, there really was a shift in consciousness—whether brief or long-lasting—then emotions and thoughts start to feel more like objects being observed—just something secondary in the "order" of things.

🙂 That’s actually what's pushing me to try describing my vision through multiple angles or paradigms, metaphors, sides... though I'm definitely no pro at writing or storytelling. 🤷
I really want to explain these visions as simply as possible, but I'm still struggling to find the right way to put it all out there. I just can't find the right words; they don't exist. Language feels so limiting sometimes, and honestly, words are prone to being misinterpreted, which can accidentally offend someone. Or it's just frustrating because the mind wants to grasp something that the "mind" just isn't built to understand.

But I feel like when I write from the paradigm consciousness angle, I'm mostly talking to the "intellect," the "masculine," the "logic," because people tend to lean toward that more "intellectual" vibe and get hooked on paradigm consciousness.
The life paradigm is more about the "heart," the "feminine," the "soul." Life is just this wild dance of being yourself.
I'm also trying to describe my view through the "awakening" paradigm, where you "become" the awareness of your own dream and start living lucidly.
Then there's the illusion paradigm... you see how much people struggle because of illusions, and while trapped in one, they just create an even bigger one! It makes me feel so much compassion, but also kind of baffled as to why people do this to themselves over something so illusory. Just endless delusions...
Sometimes, those "simple" lines from various "sages, writers, spiritualists, free spirits, anonymous sources, or holy books" can be a massive window into infinity. For some people, just a few words is all it takes.

Peter Phillips32 said:That’s exactly why I jumped into this thread in the first place. ☕

Look, nobody actually asked for your two cents, your unsolicited lectures, or all this negativity you're spewing. Nobody requested your little deep dive into stuff you haven't even lived through yourself, so I've gotta wonder—what's with this desperate need to meddle in everything?

And why on earth doesn't anyone ever bother asking the real question—like, where did all that supposed infinite love and deep connection with the universe go the second you actually had to deal with me?

Look, nobody here is out here begging for help or acting all uncertain about anything, so I’ve gotta ask—what on earth are you even doing here? Seriously, you're hanging out in a thread where you clearly don't belong, adding absolutely zero value to the conversation, yet somehow you're still lurking around like you've got something to say... why?

Man, you just showered me with such an endless amount of love. Honestly, I’m already starting to feel this deep connection you have with everything out there—including, apparently, with me.

Come on, just keep loving me, please.

I honestly don't even know where to start with this one because everything feels like such a massive, tangled mess, but here we go. I was sitting there thinking about how much energy people waste on trivialities when the whole damn structure of our reality is basically a house of cards waiting for a breeze, you know? It’s like everyone is running around in circles, completely oblivious to the fact that the floor isn't even solid under their feet. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm probably just overthinking things—classic me, right?—but there's this pervasive sense that we're all just sleepwalking through this giant, simulated existence without even realizing the script has already been written. It’s exhausting just watching it happen, honestly. Anyway, I'm rambling, I know, but sometimes you just have to say the damn thing out loud before it drives you absolutely insane. says:
Look, you're totally tripping here—you’re making this massive mistake by trying to shove every other kind of experience into that "emotional" bucket like it's the only source of truth out there. Don't get me wrong, those other experiences definitely bleed into how we feel and they absolutely mess with the quality of our thoughts and pretty much everything else, but we aren't talking about some fleeting emotional high or whatever similar nonsense being the primary way we perceive reality. What you're describing is just a secondary reaction, a byproduct, if you will. I don't know, maybe some people just can't help but blur the line between actual emotional sensations and things that exist entirely outside of feelings and imagination, and they end up completely deluded about the whole thing, but honestly? That's just not how it works at all.

Why am I even bothering to explain myself if you just completely misread that part anyway? Seriously, it’s like talking to a brick wall sometimes. Anyway, here’s a dead simple question for you—pretty much identical to the one I asked before that you managed to totally butcher.

So, what exactly gives you the right to be so damn sure that your little theories about the supernatural are some kind of indisputable Truth, you know, with a capital T?
And just what exactly makes you think your core beliefs are any better or more "correct" than someone else's fundamental convictions when they’re spinning a completely different story about the supernatural?

So, if we’re actually talking about a genuine shift in paradigm consciousness—I mean, if that thing really happens—then suddenly all those fleeting emotions and random thoughts just kind of lose their grip on you. They stop being this overwhelming storm and start feeling more like objects you're just observing from the sidelines, you know? Like they’re just secondary little things passing through the actual order of things.

So, what even is consciousness? Honestly, it’s one of those questions that makes you want to stare at a wall for three hours straight because once you start pulling on that thread, the whole sweater just unravels in your hands. It’s not just about being awake or staring blankly at a screen while scrolling through endless feeds; it’s that deeper, weirder thing—that internal flicker that makes you *you*. We spend our entire lives navigating this reality, bumping into things, making choices, and yet we can't quite pin down the essence of the thing itself. Is it just some biological byproduct of neurons firing off like crazy in your brain, or is there something more profound happening, something closer to a total paradigm consciousness? I don't know, man. I'm probably overthinking it, but sometimes you feel like you're on the edge of a massive awakening, only to realize you were just hungry and needed a burger. It's a trip.
What exactly is this thing in our paradigm consciousness that's supposedly capable of shifting around, and where exactly is it supposed to be moving to?
Why is it that some people can shift their paradigm consciousness just a little bit, while others can push it way further?
I mean, if someone can't even trigger that initial shift on their own, what exactly is the catalyst that finally makes that first movement happen?
And what does it actually look like when thoughts and emotions suddenly start appearing as things you're just observing from the outside?
What kind of cosmic order are we looking at if our own thoughts can just become secondary to us?
Where does this whole hierarchy of existence even take place?

Look, let's dive into this stuff so I can actually wrap my head around what you're getting at.

The bottom line is that you can't force understanding through endless mental gymnastics and over-explaining...
We all understand what it means for emotions to become objects of observation; that sense of distance is simply a facet of ourselves—it’s a part of our consciousness.........
If you really want to grasp this, start with yourself. Look at your own actions, ask the hard questions about how you live, and let go of organized religion, abstract concepts of consciousness, and everyone else's "misconceptions."

William Roberts3 said:either you reached "awakening" and then "fell asleep" while still being "awake." 🙂

Seriously, tell us more about that, even just a little bit 🙂
...

I haven't become anything at all—I just hardened up and drifted off into the deep Atlantic.
I’m still sleeping through most of it; sometimes I’m just half-dreaming, and other times I slip into a total coma. I’m only truly awake for those brief moments when I have to get up to use the restroom so I don't walk into a wall.

Those flashes of awakening really get under my skin because it feels like everything is looping. A cantaloupe dreams it's moss, moss dreams it's a pig, and the pig dreams it's pure paradigm consciousness trapped inside a pork chop just so it doesn't end up on a backyard BBQ.

As for my own awakening... there is absolutely zero hope left.

Anthony Cook8 said:The bottom line is that you can't force understanding through endless mental gymnastics and over-explaining...
We all understand what it means for emotions to become objects of observation; that sense of distance is simply a facet of ourselves—it’s a part of our consciousness.........
If you really want to grasp this, start with yourself. Look at your own actions, ask the hard questions about how you live, and let go of organized religion, abstract concepts of consciousness, and everyone else's "misconceptions."

So, how on earth did you land on that conclusion? Like, why wouldn't it be possible to explain absolutely anything if you really wanted to?

I mean, look at all those famous gurus out there—they’ve written entire libraries of books specifically dedicated to breaking things down and explaining them clearly. If they managed to pull off those deep dives and explanations, why couldn't we?

we all know here what it means for emotions to be objects of observation... because that distance is part of us, part of our awareness.........

Honestly, I suspect most of you don't actually get what you're claiming to understand, and it would be pretty easy to check if we actually sat down and had a real conversation about it. We've seen this happen in several threads now where people just nod along at a superficial level, basically high-fiving each other for saying the same thing, but the second you start asking actual questions and scratching beneath the surface, it turns out everyone has these fundamentally different interpretations and ideas anyway.

If you're claiming to know everything you just mentioned, then you should, theoretically, be able to explain it. Because if you truly know something, you can articulate it. But in these kinds of discussions, people aren't just claiming knowledge; they're claiming Knowledge, with a capital K, yet when I ask for an explanation, all I get are these poetic, nonsensical little stories. So yeah, it's fair to wonder what it is you actually know, isn't it?

if you truly want to understand, start with yourself, ask questions about your own behavior, and drop the religion and the awareness and the "delusions of others"

And what's the issue with wanting to learn something from others or wanting to understand how other people personally experience their own beliefs?

There's something else I don't quite follow: is it really that hard to admit that if someone follows every single action exactly the way you do regarding some legendary Truth, they could still totally disagree with you? And what would that disagreement even mean for your own convictions if you're both doing the exact same things?

It always fascinates me how spirituality is considered this "free-style" thing as long as everyone agrees with each other, but the moment a dissenter shows up, suddenly it's not okay anymore.
Yeah, typical. Always is.

nimblewolf11 said:And honestly, it goes even deeper than that! Even the same person, just by shifting their perspective, can view the exact same phenomenon through completely different lenses. This means that one single occurrence could leave an observer feeling anything from a faint impression to something mid-range, or even incredibly intense...

But see, that's where you're tripping yourself up! You're incorrectly grouping other types of experiences into this "emotional" category as if emotion is the only source of experience. The truth is, those other experiences directly influence our emotions, the quality of our thoughts, and pretty much everything else—but we aren't talking about emotional rushes or similar whims as the primary experience here. What you're describing is actually a secondary consequence. I think maybe some people confuse various emotional sensations with things that exist entirely outside of emotion and imagination, and that leads them totally astray, but that's just not the case!

If, say, there really was a shift in consciousness—whether brief or long-lasting—then emotions and thoughts start to feel more like objects being observed—just something secondary in the "order" of things.

See, that’s exactly what I had to finally wrap my head around and accept—that everything is happening within me, that nothing exists outside of myself.
The circumstances stay exactly the same, yet my emotions toss me around from pure euphoria to deep, heavy depression in such a short window, sometimes even within the span of a single day. How is that even possible? Nothing in the external world changed, yet I’m cycling through this entire spectrum of states and I have no clue what the hell is going on!?! So then today I react violently to something, when yesterday I wouldn't have even blinked at it! 🤷
And the absolute worst part about it all is that, whether you mean to or not, your moods end up having a totally devastating impact on the people around you, and then you turn around and try to pin the blame on them for how you're feeling! It's awful! 😳

The perceived realities of this material world carry such weight, but they also possess this seductive pull toward taking the path of least resistance, which means a person really needs to, constantly, at every single moment, consciously observe themselves and the way they respond to the circumstances and situations in their life—at least until things balance out, or until the heart becomes the primary driver instead of the mind, and then everything starts sliding along smoothly like a cold drink down a parched throat. 😍

Peter Phillips32 said:That’s exactly why I jumped into this thread in the first place. ☕

Look, nobody actually asked for your two cents, your unsolicited lectures, or all this negativity you're spewing. Nobody requested your little deep dive into stuff you haven't even lived through yourself, so I've gotta wonder—what's with this desperate need to meddle in everything?

And why on earth doesn't anyone ever bother asking the real question—like, where did all that supposed infinite love and deep connection with the universe go the second you actually had to deal with me?

Look, nobody here is out here begging for help or acting all uncertain about anything, so I’ve gotta ask—what on earth are you even doing here? Seriously, you're hanging out in a thread where you clearly don't belong, adding absolutely zero value to the conversation, yet somehow you're still lurking around like you've got something to say... why?

Man, you just showered me with such an endless amount of love. Honestly, I’m already starting to feel this deep connection you have with everything out there—including, apparently, with me.

Come on, just keep loving me, please.

I honestly don't even know where to start with this one because everything feels like such a massive, tangled mess, but here we go. I was sitting there thinking about how much energy people waste on trivialities when the whole damn structure of our reality is basically a house of cards waiting for a breeze, you know? It’s like everyone is running around in circles, completely oblivious to the fact that the floor isn't even solid under their feet. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm probably just overthinking things—classic me, right?—but there's this pervasive sense that we're all just sleepwalking through this giant, simulated existence without even realizing the script has already been written. It’s exhausting just watching it happen, honestly. Anyway, I'm rambling, I know, but sometimes you just have to say the damn thing out loud before it drives you absolutely insane. says:
Look, you're totally tripping here—you’re making this massive mistake by trying to shove every other kind of experience into that "emotional" bucket like it's the only source of truth out there. Don't get me wrong, those other experiences definitely bleed into how we feel and they absolutely mess with the quality of our thoughts and pretty much everything else, but we aren't talking about some fleeting emotional high or whatever similar nonsense being the primary way we perceive reality. What you're describing is just a secondary reaction, a byproduct, if you will. I don't know, maybe some people just can't help but blur the line between actual emotional sensations and things that exist entirely outside of feelings and imagination, and they end up completely deluded about the whole thing, but honestly? That's just not how it works at all.

Why am I even bothering to explain myself if you just completely misread that part anyway? Seriously, it’s like talking to a brick wall sometimes. Anyway, here’s a dead simple question for you—pretty much identical to the one I asked before that you managed to totally butcher.

So, what exactly gives you the right to be so damn sure that your little theories about the supernatural are some kind of indisputable Truth, you know, with a capital T?
And just what exactly makes you think your core beliefs are any better or more "correct" than someone else's fundamental convictions when they’re spinning a completely different story about the supernatural?

So, if we’re actually talking about a genuine shift in paradigm consciousness—I mean, if that thing really happens—then suddenly all those fleeting emotions and random thoughts just kind of lose their grip on you. They stop being this overwhelming storm and start feeling more like objects you're just observing from the sidelines, you know? Like they’re just secondary little things passing through the actual order of things.

So, what even is consciousness? Honestly, it’s one of those questions that makes you want to stare at a wall for three hours straight because once you start pulling on that thread, the whole sweater just unravels in your hands. It’s not just about being awake or staring blankly at a screen while scrolling through endless feeds; it’s that deeper, weirder thing—that internal flicker that makes you *you*. We spend our entire lives navigating this reality, bumping into things, making choices, and yet we can't quite pin down the essence of the thing itself. Is it just some biological byproduct of neurons firing off like crazy in your brain, or is there something more profound happening, something closer to a total paradigm consciousness? I don't know, man. I'm probably overthinking it, but sometimes you feel like you're on the edge of a massive awakening, only to realize you were just hungry and needed a burger. It's a trip.
What exactly is this thing in our paradigm consciousness that's supposedly capable of shifting around, and where exactly is it supposed to be moving to?
Why is it that some people can shift their paradigm consciousness just a little bit, while others can push it way further?
I mean, if someone can't even trigger that initial shift on their own, what exactly is the catalyst that finally makes that first movement happen?
And what does it actually look like when thoughts and emotions suddenly start appearing as things you're just observing from the outside?
What kind of cosmic order are we looking at if our own thoughts can just become secondary to us?
Where does this whole hierarchy of existence even take place?

Look, let's dive into this stuff so I can actually wrap my head around what you're getting at.

Well then, Peter, feel free to share your own experiences... and there's no need to label them as spiritual or call it an "awakening" if those terms don't sit right with you. 🥳

Words are such a flimsy tool for expressing what someone discovers deep inside themselves, for those sudden flashes of wisdom that emerge from the core and present a person with a finished fact—it just is! regardless of what we thought about it before. But we don't have any other tools, especially not here on the internet. 🤷

wearyowl29 said:I haven't become anything at all—I just hardened up and drifted off into the deep Atlantic.
I’m still sleeping through most of it; sometimes I’m just half-dreaming, and other times I slip into a total coma. I’m only truly awake for those brief moments when I have to get up to use the restroom so I don't walk into a wall.

Those flashes of awakening really get under my skin because it feels like everything is looping. A cantaloupe dreams it's moss, moss dreams it's a pig, and the pig dreams it's pure paradigm consciousness trapped inside a pork chop just so it doesn't end up on a backyard BBQ.

As for my own awakening... there is absolutely zero hope left.

Come on, come on, Nemruth Dag, it’s really not all as bleak as it might seem right now! 🙂

You know how it goes: expecting anything from someone else is just a form of slavery, while expecting things from yourself is true freedom. 😉

Besides, after the rain comes the sun, sooner or later, and even the darkest night is always at its worst right before the dawn breaks. 😁

Man, oh man...🤔 we are an American people, after all, and we've always been full of spirit!

rustymaker5 said:See, that’s exactly what I had to finally wrap my head around and accept—that everything is happening within me, that nothing exists outside of myself.
The circumstances stay exactly the same, yet my emotions toss me around from pure euphoria to deep, heavy depression in such a short window, sometimes even within the span of a single day. How is that even possible? Nothing in the external world changed, yet I’m cycling through this entire spectrum of states and I have no clue what the hell is going on!?! So then today I react violently to something, when yesterday I wouldn't have even blinked at it! 🤷
And the absolute worst part about it all is that, whether you mean to or not, your moods end up having a totally devastating impact on the people around you, and then you turn around and try to pin the blame on them for how you're feeling! It's awful! 😳

The perceived realities of this material world carry such weight, but they also possess this seductive pull toward taking the path of least resistance, which means a person really needs to, constantly, at every single moment, consciously observe themselves and the way they respond to the circumstances and situations in their life—at least until things balance out, or until the heart becomes the primary driver instead of the mind, and then everything starts sliding along smoothly like a cold drink down a parched throat. 😍

Well then, Peter, feel free to share your own experiences... and there's no need to label them as spiritual or call it an "awakening" if those terms don't sit right with you. 🥳

Words are such a flimsy tool for expressing what someone discovers deep inside themselves, for those sudden flashes of wisdom that emerge from the core and present a person with a finished fact—it just is! regardless of what we thought about it before. But we don't have any other tools, especially not here on the internet. 🤷

Come on, come on, Nemruth Dag, it’s really not all as bleak as it might seem right now! 🙂

You know how it goes: expecting anything from someone else is just a form of slavery, while expecting things from yourself is true freedom. 😉

Besides, after the rain comes the sun, sooner or later, and even the darkest night is always at its worst right before the dawn breaks. 😁

Man, oh man...🤔 we are an American people, after all, and we've always been full of spirit!

Honestly, all this talk about rain versus sunshine, black versus white, or awakening versus dreaming... it just doesn't sit right with me.

It's just exhausting....🙂

wearyowl29 said:Honestly, all this talk about rain versus sunshine, black versus white, or awakening versus dreaming... it just doesn't sit right with me.

It's just exhausting....🙂

And that’s exactly why they say everyone will ultimately get exactly what they believed in... if you think about it, it all comes down to that... whether it's karma or just the way the universe settles its debts... 😉
And everyone knows that true character isn't revealed over a fancy Thanksgiving dinner... you only really find out what a person is made of when things actually start hitting the fan... 😁

Jokes aside, it’s pretty much the same story for all of us... because once you've actually finished school and dealt with the real world, you rarely ever find your way back up to this level again, and even if someone manages to claw their way back... people just don't give them the benefit of the doubt anymore anyway...
So, what’s actually left at the end of the day? You tell yourself you can handle it all on your own, that you’re your own boss and don't need the hand, and then you just let things run their course... how long it takes, well, it takes as long as it takes... but eventually, we’re all going to find our way back home, because there's no avoiding it, I suppose... it seems like it was just designed to be that simple, in the end... 🤷