Cost of living vs. salaries in the European Union?

I’ve noticed that prices for clothes and food are basically the same everywhere. I picked up some pants in Washington, D.C., then hit up Budapest just to see the difference, and the price was identical. After that, I headed over to Germany and saw the exact same thing. So now I'm wondering, what's the deal? Why are prices more or less the same when, say, Germany has way more space? Thanks.

darkbison14 said:I’ve noticed that prices for clothes and food are basically the same everywhere. I picked up some pants in Washington, D.C., then hit up Budapest just to see the difference, and the price was identical. After that, I headed over to Germany and saw the exact same thing. So now I'm wondering, what's the deal? Why are prices more or less the same when, say, Germany has way more space? Thanks.

Well... I wouldn't say prices in the EU and here are the same... especially not for food.
I shop for food in Italy quite often. Some things are similar to what we have, but most items there are cheaper by up to 50%.
What I want to know is why food is so cheap in Italy while it's painfully expensive here?!🤷
With their salaries, it's no wonder they're always vacationing in America, while Americans can never afford to go anywhere with our wages.🙄

Peter Brooks5 said:Well... I wouldn't say prices in the EU and here are the same... especially not for food.
I shop for food in Italy quite often. Some things are similar to what we have, but most items there are cheaper by up to 50%.
What I want to know is why food is so cheap in Italy while it's painfully expensive here?!🤷
With their salaries, it's no wonder they're always vacationing in America, while Americans can never afford to go anywhere with our wages.🙄

Look, the answer is staring us right in the face, and honestly, it’s pretty damn obvious. This whole country is being run by special interest lobbies. The biggest player? It's the retail lobby, and Ivica Todorić is basically the king of that mountain. He’s sitting there pulling all the strings, raking in government subsidies like it's his job—because it is! He’s got his own people planted deep inside the Department of Agriculture and the Department of Commerce. They aren't there by accident; they're there to make sure those handouts keep flowing straight into his pockets. It's a total setup, 101%.

Look, I don’t drink. I don’t smoke. I don’t gamble, and I definitely don't bet on anything. But coffee? Coffee is my one true vice. Honestly, it’s probably the only thing I'm actually an expert in. I’ve got a high-end Century espresso machine sitting right in my kitchen at home, and I usually stock up on Starbucks beans. If you want to understand the absolute mess that is our retail landscape right now, just look at the coffee market—it’s the perfect example.

In America, you see Starbucks products everywhere, especially in big spots like Target and massive Walmarts. If you head over to a Metro, you can grab their whole bean coffee—they usually carry about three different varieties—and the prices per pound range from $1.29 up to... $53And then you’ve got Walmart just tacking that on top like it's nothing! Seriously! $6.75 They’re just hiking their own margins, plain and simple. That’s why you see prices jumping all over the place, anywhere from $149 up to... $60That’s the number one issue right there—it’s absolutely massive. $6.75 Can you believe these margins on just one kilo of coffee?! It’s absolute robbery. I did some digging to see how much Walmart was actually ripping people off before this—check out the numbers below!

Metro is supposed to be this massive international retail chain with the same big bosses everywhere, but we’ve been dealt a bad hand here in America. Our market got completely swallowed up by Canadian interests, so the local Metros actually fall under some shady Canadian management that calls all the shots. Because of that, the shelves are constantly packed with low-quality junk specifically imported for Canadians, Poles, or us—basically just whatever they consider "Eastern Bloc" grade stuff. It's frustrating as hell.

Honestly, you look at one of those Metro stores in a place like Austin, and it’s basically run by Austrians. It’s constantly packed with nothing but Austrian, German, and other Western imports. Half the time, you walk in and feel like you’ve stepped into a completely different shop altogether, rather than a store that’s supposedly part of the same corporate family.

Ugh, I have to go back to Starbucks: over at the Austrian Metro—wait, let's call it the local Target—they aren't just stocking three types of Starbucks, they actually have nine different kinds on the shelves. That’s basically their entire lineup! The prices are sitting somewhere between $7.50 and about $11.50. It's honestly ridiculous. $29 Look, let’s talk about the price of coffee beans per kilo. When you factor in—and unfortunately, this is only a temporary thing—the ability to opt out of that 7% sales tax on food products in Austria, the price for a kilo of the EXACT same coffee you'd find at an American Walmart or Metro drops down to somewhere between $51 and... $27It’s simple math, really—I buy three pounds of coffee and the whole trip from Washington, D.C. to Graz pays for itself before I even hit the highway!

Look, it’s simple math. Both the American Metro and the one over in Austria are buying their Starbucks beans from the exact same supplier in Italy. This means there isn't some massive gap in what they pay upfront to get the product. Sure, you might have tiny differences due to EU tax stuff or customs, but we’re talking peanuts. Then you look at the Sales Tax. In Austria, food tax is sitting at 7%, while here in the States, we're dealing with a much higher rate. Once you factor in that huge gap—nearly 18% right there—plus whatever small duties exist, the logic is pretty obvious. If the starting costs are basically the same, the price difference here should be at least 20% to 40% higher than what you'd pay in Austria. It just makes sense!

Look, when you crunch the numbers, the retail price gap is insane. We’re talking a massive 227% markup on the cheap stuff and over 203% on the premium blends. Basically, that arrogant Canadian guy just fleeced everyone buying the expensive coffee, while Ivica Todorić made sure his profits were locked in tight. It makes you want to scream. Honestly, it leaves us with nothing but a few burning questions—questions that pretty much explain exactly why American shoppers are struggling so hard to make ends meet.

Where does the greed end? Seriously, where is the limit to this absolute arrogance? You see companies out here in America just ripping people off, selling garbage to the public with zero consequences, hiding behind their legal loopholes and "following the rules" while they bleed everyone dry. It’s blatant. They are stripping Americans of their hard-earned money without a shred of decency, empathy, or basic human morality. It makes my blood boil!

Where the hell are the laws meant to protect the average citizen? We need regulations that cap profit margins! Look at banking—there are actual legal limits on how much they can charge you in interest. Why isn't there anything like that for everything else? It’s a joke.

Look, you can go ahead and ask yourselves this: we’re pretty sure both of those Metro locations are pulling in solid profits. They’ve definitely baked a decent margin into the price per pound of that coffee. I mean, come on—you think an Austrian businessman is out there selling goods at a loss or just giving away premium coffee for free? Not a chance! Seriously, how long are we going to be slaves to the bottomless greed of these arrogant, self-serving corporate thugs (like that Canadian guy acting in America like he wouldn't dare back home, or those bankers...)?

Corrupt politicians peddle nothing but hollow fairy tales, always playing one side—their own side—to justify their moves. They basically give a free pass to these massive corporations to act completely unhinged and reckless under the guise of "free market competition," all while blaming the European Union for dictating terms!

The whole "the EU is forcing us" excuse is total garbage. In the countries supposedly "forcing" these rules, they actually have order, real interests, and protections for their people. They don't let anyone talk nonsense to them. Meanwhile, our "capable" politicians run to Brussels for permission before they even think about changing a single law (that’s "independence and democracy" the American way, right?)...

It’s a lie, at least in the sense that they could stop this mess themselves if they wanted to. But why would they? It suits them perfectly. They’re getting fat envelopes under the table to dismantle their own country and sell it off without following any laws (which explains why the leadership doesn't give a damn about referendums, public opinion, or constitutional lawsuits).

American politicians were paid to turn this country into a banana republic ruled by foreigners. These political elites—who, according to EU MEP Farage, took 310 million euros in bribes to make sure America entered the EU without any resistance—will just pack up and live somewhere else with their families. Meanwhile, the average American will be left as a slave and a pauper in their own damn land.

No one in Europe would say a word if the Government actually stepped up. If they set maximum profit margins, enforced quality controls, and set up an agency to dictate which goods are even allowed to be imported (just like almost every other country does!), we wouldn't be in this mess. Instead, the American market is flooded with rotten meat, toxic toys, expired goods, and suspicious, untested junk... we’re part of the EU, so we get to be the world's dumping ground for a few greedy vultures collecting kickbacks to keep America a landfill.

And the stuff that *is* decent? The arrogant bastards hit you with 200% markups, bleeding people dry. I know from experience that my job and salary, worth about $850, would pay $3,000 in Austria for the exact same work. That’s roughly 3.5 times more than what we get here.

At the same time, many items of much higher quality cost way less over there. For instance, 800 grams of top-tier, fragrant pâté in Graz is $6.00, whereas here 400 grams costs us $25; high-end deli meats are cheap there, maybe $8 a pound $4.75, but here they’re $18, and that’s "on sale"... and so on. Start with that coffee from the beginning of this post, which is 200% cheaper there... take that 200% discount, add the 350% higher salary, and then ask yourselves—if it hasn't clicked yet—where exactly is "America"? Sure, the ratios shift sometimes, but for anyone making less than I do, the gap is even more soul-crushing...

Canadians might have lower incomes than us (which lets politicians brag about our "standard of living"), but they won't tell you that the same deli meat is three times cheaper there (high-class ham like Gavrilovic costs about $14 a pound there $13, compared to $35 here $50). When you look at the big picture, Canadian purchasing power is actually much higher than ours. Maybe that's because they don't have guys like Ivica Todorić living there, extorting the entire agricultural sector or running the Ministry of Agriculture or Trade... Todorić is just my go-to example since he’s the most obvious conductor of this orchestra, followed by all the other retailers. That’s why the people stay poor... Everything American is being destroyed—especially our farming—just to line the pockets of the trade-political elites through import kickbacks...

Once the country is left empty because it’s no longer profitable to grow anything, they'll sell it off cheap to foreigners "because it serves us no purpose anyway, and the EU says fertile land shouldn't go to waste"... (I can already see some limp-wristed Prime Minister trying to explain it to us).

Look, this is just a tiny glimpse into why Americans—despite all the supposed wealth—are still struggling to put food on the table. Why are we importing everything from bees and eggs to rotten meat that’s been sitting in a freezer for two years, not to mention grain, milk, and god knows what else? Does this list ever end??

Go ahead, pick between the Democrats or the Republicans again. It’s the exact same story, just different colors and different names (not to mention their little coalition satellites who were busy carving up thick European Union commissions before the last big vote). Then, feel free to be certain that the end is near—and I mean a total, bankrupting, starving, weeping disaster kind of end. Because as long as the government refuses to put America first, refusing to compromise on anything unless it benefits their own interests over the nation, we aren't going to survive. We won't even make it. We'll just spend more and more time arguing about why things are getting so bad, and they keep getting worse...

You have no way of knowing what the margins look like at Walmart versus Metro. Metro is a massive operation pulling in $32 billion annually. Walmart is doing about $1.5 billion.

Can you see the difference in bargaining power there?

Besides, Walmart's profit margin isn't some 20% windfall—it's measured in fractions of a percent. You can easily verify that in the financial statements. You can also read that Ivica Todorić isn't raking in astronomical sums considering the size of the company he runs, and honestly, he’s probably hovering right on the edge of survival.

But looking at the rest of your post—your ideas about the government setting margins and your apparent lack of awareness that we already have quality control agencies—I'm not sure how much opening up the financial statements would actually help you.

James Rogers53 said:You have no way of knowing what the margins look like at Walmart versus Metro. Metro is a massive operation pulling in $32 billion annually. Walmart is doing about $1.5 billion.

Can you see the difference in bargaining power there?

Besides, Walmart's profit margin isn't some 20% windfall—it's measured in fractions of a percent. You can easily verify that in the financial statements. You can also read that Ivica Todorić isn't raking in astronomical sums considering the size of the company he runs, and honestly, he’s probably hovering right on the edge of survival.

But looking at the rest of your post—your ideas about the government setting margins and your apparent lack of awareness that we already have quality control agencies—I'm not sure how much opening up the financial statements would actually help you.

Bargaining power has nothing to do with it. It comes down to the willpower of whoever is selling to set margins that are actually reasonable—or just whatever they feel like, regardless of who it hurts.

Because setting your own margin isn't about leverage (Ivica Todorić isn't out there negotiating with anyone anyway, and honestly, what would he even be "negotiating"??... he just adjusts and cranks it up as high as he can get away with given how the American market works, and he CAN)... are you trying to tell me Todorić doesn't make enough money to keep margins low?? Maybe he's too busy burning cash on expansions into Mexico and Canada, and he needs the domestic consumers to foot the bill??

James Rogers53 said:You have no way of knowing what the margins look like at Walmart versus Metro. Metro is a massive operation pulling in $32 billion annually. Walmart is doing about $1.5 billion.

Can you see the difference in bargaining power there?

Besides, Walmart's profit margin isn't some 20% windfall—it's measured in fractions of a percent. You can easily verify that in the financial statements. You can also read that Ivica Todorić isn't raking in astronomical sums considering the size of the company he runs, and honestly, he’s probably hovering right on the edge of survival.

But looking at the rest of your post—your ideas about the government setting margins and your apparent lack of awareness that we already have quality control agencies—I'm not sure how much opening up the financial statements would actually help you.

Verify it with who?? The reports he writes himself and his hand-picked buddies in the government confirm for him??

Are you an employee of Hlebin?? Because if you aren't from Hlebin, then you're clearly from Walmart, playing the loyal little boss and protecting your employer...

If he were truly living "on the edge," he wouldn't be spending money buying stuff in neighboring countries (because you buy with surplus cash, not by taking on massive risks and uncertainty when you don't even have the funds... who in their right mind would take on guarantees like that??)

James Rogers53 said:You have no way of knowing what the margins look like at Walmart versus Metro. Metro is a massive operation pulling in $32 billion annually. Walmart is doing about $1.5 billion.

Can you see the difference in bargaining power there?

Besides, Walmart's profit margin isn't some 20% windfall—it's measured in fractions of a percent. You can easily verify that in the financial statements. You can also read that Ivica Todorić isn't raking in astronomical sums considering the size of the company he runs, and honestly, he’s probably hovering right on the edge of survival.

But looking at the rest of your post—your ideas about the government setting margins and your apparent lack of awareness that we already have quality control agencies—I'm not sure how much opening up the financial statements would actually help you.

I didn't say we don't have an agency; I said the agency isn't doing its damn job because the whole country is held hostage by private interests and kickbacks. So it's not my ignorance (I know exactly what America has—on paper), it's the fact that these official services basically exist only in name and refuse to work.

Are you suggesting Todorić has to slap on a 200% margin, or that Americans are idiots for being satisfied with much lower margins? BTW, if they were losing money on selling that coffee, they'd raise the price (because you don't cover unprofitable products with profits from profitable ones; you either hike the price until it makes sense or you pull it from the shelves! — there's no "socialism" here), but that's not what happens. They live very well off thousands of cafe owners, citizens, and customers in Styria, and they are perfectly happy with the price of Starbucks!! — which means, Americans don't operate the way Walmart does—which means,Anything is possible if you actually want it to happen... but they just won't. That's the whole damn problem.

Look, unless you can somehow debunk the actual FACTS I laid out above—like the price difference between a kilo of Starbucks in Austria versus what you pay at Walmart here in America... where on earth does that massive 200% price gap come from? You think it’s just a "tiny fraction" of Walmart's margin??

BTW, even if he were somehow buying Starbucks from Metro at RETAIL prices (which isn't even theoretically possible!!), would a higher per-kilo price really only be a "tiny fraction"?$6.75 From what I gather about math, that's basically a 30% markup on someone else's retail price, and when you look at the wholesale cost and volume margins, the difference is freaking astronomical...

You honestly believe everyone is an idiot, right? Like Ivica Todorić and his little crew are going to sit us down and explain economic principles to us... the only "principle" here is that the appetite of this flower shop owner is huge, like, MASSIVELY huge. It’s obvious to anyone living in this country, and probably to people outside of it too.

To make sure Ivica Todorić can sell two-year-old frozen pork from Poland—stuff the Poles aren't even allowed to sell to themselves anymore (but can dump at Europe's landfill, aka AMERICA!!)—he’s got guys in the government departments handling everything. They lobby for law changes and pull whatever strings are necessary so he can buy a kilo for one euro and sell it "on sale" for four euros (yeah, I have some seriously solid insider sources from Walmart!)...

BTW, his biggest investment is paying off and donating to both major political parties right before elections. He couldn't care less who wins the vote—he’s already bought himself some post-election "peace and quiet," so he just does whatever he wants. In any normal country, this kind of political and market crime gets your assets seized and lands you in prison. Around here, it's hailed as a "shining example of successful business."

Do you actually have proof that he's donating money to those two political parties? If you do, please just lay it out.

Negotiating power matters—it really does. That’s a huge reason why Walmart ended up in the mess it's in today.
When you walk into a store as an individual just trying to pick up an iPhone, here’s what it’s going to cost you— $1667If some local electronics shop rolls up to a Congressman’s office to buy 100 iPhones—maybe they get them at a price of 3... $0.00If a distributor rolls up to a major wholesaler to pick up 10,000 iPhones—maybe they're looking at a massive bulk deal—they’d probably walk away with a price point around $2... or something like that. I guess. $0.00If AT&T rolled up to an Apple factory and demanded 5 million iPhones—they'd probably get them for a buck. $0.00Look, if you actually own a factory and need over 100 million iPhones—then yeah, that device is going to cost you. $133 I guess it’s just because the raw materials alone for a device like that are so expensive—not even counting what they spent on R&D.

So, compare that to someone like me—someone just trying to pick up a single iPhone without getting ripped off by the price tag. $1667Look, just compare that to a giant like AT&T—they’re dropping millions on hardware every single month. You still think bargaining power doesn't matter? I guess. The prices I mentioned are just rough estimates, but that's how the game works—something you probably already know from dealing with things in your own daily life.
It all boils down to economies of scale.

The financial statements for Walmart and its parent company, Walmart, aren't being verified by some government department—they're audited by the Big 4. These firms audit massive global corporations, way bigger than Walmart, and they certainly have zero interest in tanking their reputation over a local player like this. Besides, I don't see any reason why Ivica Todorić would intentionally report worse numbers. His entire credit rating depends on those results—which directly dictates the interest rates he pays on his debt. Good results mean lower interest—more cash in his pocket. Bad results mean lost trust—credit dries up—growth stalls—total collapse. I just don't see why Walmart would want to show poor performance. Honestly, I think guys like Sarah Ruiz42 and whatever opinion they hold are a pretty low priority compared to the banks and investors funding all these expansions and acquisitions.

Look, I didn't say Ivica Todorić was living on the edge—I just meant that his company's success is pretty questionable at best. It all depends on a lot of moving parts—especially the stability of the region where they actually operate.

Your Starbucks coffee example covers just one product out of thousands. Maybe he’ll slap a 20% markup on it—he probably just wants people buying Starbucks because he can snag better terms, bigger rebates, and constant promos there. It's just his business strategy—at the end of the day, if you want your Starbucks, go buy it somewhere else.

Alright, but what I really want to know is why Germans and Austrians have such massive economies compared to ours. What’s the actual reason? Is it because they produce more goods or something else?

If they keep up this pace—especially after how they handled truffles, LCD screens, and those tiny Fiats—honestly, I think they might actually be catching up to them pretty soon...🤷
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darkbison14 said:Alright, but what I really want to know is why Germans and Austrians have such massive economies compared to ours. What’s the actual reason? Is it because they produce more goods or something else?

There are three main factors that drive higher margins:
- The skill level and education of the workforce
- The sheer volume and quality of available capital
- More advanced manufacturing techniques

The raw quantity of goods produced doesn't mean a thing. You can produce less volume and still walk away with much higher profits.

silvertiger11 said:There are three main factors that drive higher margins:
- The skill level and education of the workforce
- The sheer volume and quality of available capital
- More advanced manufacturing techniques

The raw quantity of goods produced doesn't mean a thing. You can produce less volume and still walk away with much higher profits.

There's a whole lot more to it than that, and what he listed isn't some set-in-stone rulebook.

James Rogers53 said:Do you actually have proof that he's donating money to those two political parties? If you do, please just lay it out.

Negotiating power matters—it really does. That’s a huge reason why Walmart ended up in the mess it's in today.
When you walk into a store as an individual just trying to pick up an iPhone, here’s what it’s going to cost you— $1667If some local electronics shop rolls up to a Congressman’s office to buy 100 iPhones—maybe they get them at a price of 3... $0.00If a distributor rolls up to a major wholesaler to pick up 10,000 iPhones—maybe they're looking at a massive bulk deal—they’d probably walk away with a price point around $2... or something like that. I guess. $0.00If AT&T rolled up to an Apple factory and demanded 5 million iPhones—they'd probably get them for a buck. $0.00Look, if you actually own a factory and need over 100 million iPhones—then yeah, that device is going to cost you. $133 I guess it’s just because the raw materials alone for a device like that are so expensive—not even counting what they spent on R&D.

So, compare that to someone like me—someone just trying to pick up a single iPhone without getting ripped off by the price tag. $1667Look, just compare that to a giant like AT&T—they’re dropping millions on hardware every single month. You still think bargaining power doesn't matter? I guess. The prices I mentioned are just rough estimates, but that's how the game works—something you probably already know from dealing with things in your own daily life.
It all boils down to economies of scale.

The financial statements for Walmart and its parent company, Walmart, aren't being verified by some government department—they're audited by the Big 4. These firms audit massive global corporations, way bigger than Walmart, and they certainly have zero interest in tanking their reputation over a local player like this. Besides, I don't see any reason why Ivica Todorić would intentionally report worse numbers. His entire credit rating depends on those results—which directly dictates the interest rates he pays on his debt. Good results mean lower interest—more cash in his pocket. Bad results mean lost trust—credit dries up—growth stalls—total collapse. I just don't see why Walmart would want to show poor performance. Honestly, I think guys like Sarah Ruiz42 and whatever opinion they hold are a pretty low priority compared to the banks and investors funding all these expansions and acquisitions.

Look, I didn't say Ivica Todorić was living on the edge—I just meant that his company's success is pretty questionable at best. It all depends on a lot of moving parts—especially the stability of the region where they actually operate.

Your Starbucks coffee example covers just one product out of thousands. Maybe he’ll slap a 20% markup on it—he probably just wants people buying Starbucks because he can snag better terms, bigger rebates, and constant promos there. It's just his business strategy—at the end of the day, if you want your Starbucks, go buy it somewhere else.

Thanks for selling me on your boss's arrogance, while completely dodging every single important question I actually asked. You keep babbling about economies of scale, which is totally irrelevant here because you didn't even mention who Ivica Todorić is buying this Starbucks from in the first place—it's just a transparent way to pad margins by passing costs through a hundred different hands, with everyone grabbing their cut while the taxpayers foot the bill. And why on earth isn't he buying directly from the distributor??

And of course, you didn't explain why there's such a massive price gap within the exact same company (never mind Walmart, but this Starbucks has a 230% price difference internally, so if you're such an economic expert, please, enlighten me...)??

Ivica Todorić doesn't get to act this entitled when he's sucking up so much taxpayer money and riding on so many subsidies that regular Americans pay for just so he can feed us these arrogant fairy tales. He’s obligated to provide quality at a fair price. He operates under special privileges, so we can't just treat this like some "fair market competition"!

There was enough media coverage regarding donations and sponsorships after the elections that I shouldn't even have to prove it, but honestly, it would be about time if the FBI finally cleaned out that mafia mess once and for all...

Credit ratings and the agencies that issue them are supposedly so honest and reliable that the US government—which deals with them more than anyone—is actually filing lawsuits against them because they were being bribed and used fake reports to trigger poverty and debt crises (and they're still doing it today).

BTW, one agency claims Walmart is overleveraged and won't let them expand into Kroger or take on more debt, yet at the exact same time—get this!—they claim he's more capable than Bill Gates elsewhere! Who is playing who here? I won't even go there.

If Ivica Todorić actually gave a damn about Starbucks or any other domestic producer (other than the ones he owns or makes via K-Plus), he wouldn't be doing this. It's all talk. By leaning so hard on imports, he's directly draining and destroying the American economy, basically settling scores with anyone who refused to sell themselves out to his company... but hey, that's not revenge, that's just "expansionary business policy," right?

Sarah Ruiz42 said:Thanks for selling me on your boss's arrogance, while completely dodging every single important question I actually asked. You keep babbling about economies of scale, which is totally irrelevant here because you didn't even mention who Ivica Todorić is buying this Starbucks from in the first place—it's just a transparent way to pad margins by passing costs through a hundred different hands, with everyone grabbing their cut while the taxpayers foot the bill. And why on earth isn't he buying directly from the distributor??

And of course, you didn't explain why there's such a massive price gap within the exact same company (never mind Walmart, but this Starbucks has a 230% price difference internally, so if you're such an economic expert, please, enlighten me...)??

Ivica Todorić doesn't get to act this entitled when he's sucking up so much taxpayer money and riding on so many subsidies that regular Americans pay for just so he can feed us these arrogant fairy tales. He’s obligated to provide quality at a fair price. He operates under special privileges, so we can't just treat this like some "fair market competition"!

There was enough media coverage regarding donations and sponsorships after the elections that I shouldn't even have to prove it, but honestly, it would be about time if the FBI finally cleaned out that mafia mess once and for all...

Credit ratings and the agencies that issue them are supposedly so honest and reliable that the US government—which deals with them more than anyone—is actually filing lawsuits against them because they were being bribed and used fake reports to trigger poverty and debt crises (and they're still doing it today).

BTW, one agency claims Walmart is overleveraged and won't let them expand into Kroger or take on more debt, yet at the exact same time—get this!—they claim he's more capable than Bill Gates elsewhere! Who is playing who here? I won't even go there.

If Ivica Todorić actually gave a damn about Starbucks or any other domestic producer (other than the ones he owns or makes via K-Plus), he wouldn't be doing this. It's all talk. By leaning so hard on imports, he's directly draining and destroying the American economy, basically settling scores with anyone who refused to sell themselves out to his company... but hey, that's not revenge, that's just "expansionary business policy," right?

...coming from the guy buying Starbucks. 🤣

Patrick Moore3 said:...coming from the guy buying Starbucks. 🤣

Yeah, and what's the big deal??

First off, Franck doesn't even grow the beans; they just import them, roast them, and bag them up—so I don't even consider their coffee an American product (even if, sure, American workers are getting paid to handle that part of it). Second, coffee isn't some monolith; there are endless varieties and roasting styles, and frankly, Franck just doesn't hit the spot for me. It’s like buying Italian leather shoes because you hate the ones made by Borov; sure, those Borov shoes are a totally American product, but Franck's coffee? It's NOT. It's nothing like the coffee from all those small, private roasters like Annmarie or Gloria...

Franck only has one specific type meant for espresso machines (since espresso roasting is its own whole process), and that stuff costs way more per pound than that Starbucks crap. Seriously, walk into a Walmart—they have both right there—and you won't even be able to tell which one is actually "cheaper." Even though Franck brags about their "tradition" and "state-of-the-art" facilities, it's obvious they're running the same old greedy, negative, margin-padding bullshit. I mean, how does Franck's coffee end up costing twice as much as a coffee of the exact same grade from overseas??

And honestly, the answer is pretty damn simple...

First off, I'm not female. Second, I don't work for Ivica Todorić (luckily or unluckily, depending on how you look at it)—I work in finance. My job requires me to know as much as possible about the current and future operations of companies like Walmart to protect my employer's interests, which, by extension, protects my own paycheck.

Furthermore, just like I thought, you haven't provided any concrete proof that Walmart is funneling donations to the two major political parties in America. Personally, I don't see any reason why they would bother, unless their goal is to win a contract for supplying the Congressional cafeteria.
On another note, Walmart definitely exploits every incentive available to them, so I'll give you that one.
Is it illegal? No. Is it unethical? Not really. If Mercedes-Benz wanted to build a factory in the States, wouldn't they expect tax breaks to attract that investment? If so, why wouldn't we offer the same to a domestic investor?

As for Starbucks, I have no idea who they source from or why they're—according to your info—130% more expensive here than in Austria (and notice you can't even calculate the percentage correctly). I offered one logical explanation that doesn't mention Todorić's charity at all as a reason for preferring Franck over Starbucks; it was strictly about Todorić's bottom line. You just don't want to accept that, which is your right.

What I don't get is why you're bringing up credit rating agencies. I'm talking about the auditing firms that review financial statements and issue opinions on whether they comply with IFRS. As far as I know, Walmart and its subsidiaries have never received a negative audit opinion.
It seems to me you're confusing auditing firms with credit rating agencies.

Mass-market coffee brands like Starbucks or Franck are just blends of Robusta and Arabica.

Right now, Robusta is sitting at about $2 per kg.
Arabica is hovering around $3.20 per kg.

The way Starbucks does their espresso is pretty straightforward: they just roast the beans longer at lower temperatures.
We're talking between 188 and 282 °C, lasting anywhere from 12 to 30 minutes.
Normally, if you roast at 188°C, it takes 25-30 minutes, whereas at 282°C, you're looking at 12-15 minutes.

High-end selections are significantly more expensive, especially when you get into the world-class stuff.

A bag of Tanzania Peaberry can run you $5 to $6 per kg.
And Yirgacheffe—which is arguably the best Arabica out there—goes for $4 to $5 per kg.
These two are basically the gold standard globally; everything is grown by hand without any pesticides. We're talking beans carried up mountains on people's backs, hand-picked, and sun-dried on stone. That's the level of effort involved.
When you look at the retail price, the government is taking a massive cut—about 40-50% of the total.

Take Canada, for example.
They don't have a specific coffee tax, and their sales tax is only 8.5%. This means the tax burden on coffee here in America is actually 30% higher than what they deal with in Canada.

Look, people need to realize that we and the Canadians deal with some of the highest taxes in the world. Our prices stay high because the tax burden is absolutely massive while our overall market volume is relatively small.
Berlin has a population of 4.5 million. If they had to carry the same number of bureaucrats, firefighters, and police officers on their backs that we do, they wouldn't even be able to afford bread.

silvertiger11 said:There are three main factors that drive higher margins:
- The skill level and education of the workforce
- The sheer volume and quality of available capital
- More advanced manufacturing techniques

The raw quantity of goods produced doesn't mean a thing. You can produce less volume and still walk away with much higher profits.

Can you break that down? I'm really curious. Like, look at Germany and Austria—neighboring countries, same people basically, yet people in Germany earn more.

darkbison14 said:Can you break that down? I'm really curious. Like, look at Germany and Austria—neighboring countries, same people basically, yet people in Germany earn more.

Man, just wait until the Germans or Austrians hear you say that. By your logic, we'd be the exact same people as the Mexicans too.

Here’s how I see it:

Most advanced nations don't even have a minimum wage. Look at Germany or Austria—how on earth do they manage to have higher salaries than we do? It’s wild. For instance, about 40 years ago, you could hire a German worker for $3.25, which was actually pretty cheap. Back then, employers kept flocking here to grab that inexpensive labor. But eventually, things flipped. Suddenly, there were more bosses hunting for cheap workers than there were actual workers available! So, one employer would offer $5.00, and when another wouldn't back down, they'd offer $6.75. For the worker, that pay just keeps climbing until it hits a certain ceiling,
. But here's the kicker: employers aren't interested in moving their factories elsewhere. Instead, they try to convince the government to import cheap labor from our part of the world. Since there's no minimum wage here, an American worker will end up getting
.
And it isn't just about the minimum wage; you've got taxes, surcharges, contributions, and all that bureaucracy
.
Plus, over there, the big goal is to be an entrepreneur, whereas here, everyone just wants to be a politician
. In their system, politicians don't play the lead role in deciding who gets to be a monopoly (like Ivica Todorić) because the market decides everything
.

Noah Gray2 said:Here’s how I see it:

Most advanced nations don't even have a minimum wage. Look at Germany or Austria—how on earth do they manage to have higher salaries than we do? It’s wild. For instance, about 40 years ago, you could hire a German worker for $3.25, which was actually pretty cheap. Back then, employers kept flocking here to grab that inexpensive labor. But eventually, things flipped. Suddenly, there were more bosses hunting for cheap workers than there were actual workers available! So, one employer would offer $5.00, and when another wouldn't back down, they'd offer $6.75. For the worker, that pay just keeps climbing until it hits a certain ceiling,
. But here's the kicker: employers aren't interested in moving their factories elsewhere. Instead, they try to convince the government to import cheap labor from our part of the world. Since there's no minimum wage here, an American worker will end up getting
.
And it isn't just about the minimum wage; you've got taxes, surcharges, contributions, and all that bureaucracy
.
Plus, over there, the big goal is to be an entrepreneur, whereas here, everyone just wants to be a politician
. In their system, politicians don't play the lead role in deciding who gets to be a monopoly (like Ivica Todorić) because the market decides everything
.

In Australia, the minimum hourly rate is 13 USD, yet food prices are basically the same as they are here in the States.

Check out this photo from my trip to an Austin Walmart (Austria) last week.

A massive 5kg bag of Uncle Ben's rice was just $2.80 total, which means $7.00 per bag, or basically $1.50 per kilo. Back home, we pay $4.75 for a single kilo. That’s 335% more expensive where I'm from!

Then there's frozen veggies—like for making potato salad—2.5kg for only $1.48 gross, which is $3.75, or about 4.44 cents a kilo. At home, a small 400g bag of Kellogg's stuff at a place like Kroger is $3.75, meaning we're paying $9.25 per kilo... that is roughly 620% more expensive than here.

I can't live without my Starbucks coffee. Back home, one kilo is $53, but in Austin (on sale!), it was only $9. Even when things get rough or I need a gift for guests, I could find brands like Alvoradi or other beans for under $5 a kilo. And yeah, I'm talking whole bean because I make my own espresso.

To top it all off, the average salary in Austria is easily 3 to 3.5 times higher than what we make for the exact same job in government service.