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Child pedophilia and sexual development

Started by mistymason1 · · 👁 4 views · 6 replies

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Participants mistymason1jadewolf16bluemason3Eric Gray2analogbison21Paul Vaughn93northernpilot7
mistymason1 mistymason1 MemberOP
26 messages
joined Jan 2012
#1 ·
Watching this latest culture war between liberal permissivists and conservative submissivists over sex education in schools, I find it interesting how both sides view these two phenomena.

For conservatives, only pedophiles would dare put the words "sexuality" and "children" in the same sentence. This stems from the religious dogma that children—being "innocent"—are essentially asexual and therefore sinless, devoid of any sexual thoughts. A huge chunk of the criticism against introducing sex ed (specifically in 5th grade) is built on this premise. I guess that’s why Kinsey remains such a thorn in the side of American Christian radicals; he had the audacity to actually study childhood sexuality, effectively profaning what Christians believe should remain sacred.

But what I actually find most interesting is that both conservatives and liberals hold almost identical views regarding pedophilia.

The modern image of a pedophile usually depicts a psychopathic rapist, complete with all the cinematic tropes: the van with tinted windows, the basement with heavy metal doors and chains.

I remember those early media appearances by Gordana Buljan Flander where she described the personality traits of pedophiles. According to her, it might be someone who is mostly nonviolent and gets along well with kids—someone who knows how to "get down on their level"—but possesses one socially unacceptable trait: they are sexually aroused by prepubescent children. To achieve contact and satisfy that urge, they typically resort to various manipulations through play ("this is our little secret you can't tell anyone").

I’m curious about people who have studied this phenomenon, whether through literature or clinical practice: what are these individuals actually like? Are they the psychopathic aggressors portrayed in the media, or should we strictly distinguish between sadists—who use children merely as objects for humiliation and torment because they are weaker than adults—and, so to speak, actual pedophiles, who may love children, but perhaps a bit too much, expressing that love through socially unacceptable sexual means.

Another question that crossed my mind while thinking about this: how do we handle rehabilitation for children who were sexualized by adults "before their time"? In many interviews, child psychologists have mentioned that children who went through this show clear signs of excessive sexual permissiveness—a lack of shame, leading them to expose themselves in public or touch themselves and other children in intimate areas. Therefore, the therapist's "task" is to make the child realize that such behavior is a consequence of sexual abuse by an adult who had no right to act that way.

The problem and the paradox is that the trauma—the shame and embarrassment—often only surfaces at that point. An amoral cynic might argue that the actual abuse occurs during therapy itself, just to satisfy the imperatives of the superego and maintain socially acceptable behavior.

I have to admit, I wouldn't know how to answer an amoral cynic like that.

How do you see this paradox?
jadewolf16 jadewolf16 Active Member
80 messages
joined Oct 2014
#2 ·
As for that other guy—honestly, speaking from my own experience—people who were "sexualized" early on actually tend to have way better sex lives, more stable families, and just a generally higher quality of life compared to us folks who were a bit behind the curve. So, I really don't see any reason why we should be trying to "rehabilitate" them or anything like that!
bluemason3 bluemason3 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Jun 2016
#3 ·
I won't speculate on the profiles, motives, or specific differences between pedophiles, so I’ll skip that part. However, there is an aspect of this conversation that I find quite fascinating when viewed through a broader "😬 socio-behavioral" lens.

A rather interesting phenomenon emerges regarding how society views pedophilia: it is incredibly difficult to maintain the rational, relativistic, individualistic morality that our modern legal and social systems are theoretically built upon.

In theory, we are working with two distinct ethical frameworks:
- A prescriptive one, which advocates for certain fixed moral values as inherent goods—or, if you prefer, taboos.
- An individualistic one, which follows the principle that anything goes as long as no one else gets hurt.

Under the first framework, homosexuality might be considered inherently wrong (depending on the system) because it is seen as "principally immoral." Under the second, however, it is essentially irrelevant; if no one is being harmed, it’s nobody's business.

Now, under that second framework, pedophilia is prohibited for a simple reason: children are deemed incapable of making autonomous, responsible decisions regarding sexual involvement. They are easily manipulated, so regardless of "consent," it is classified as assault (I assume this logic applies to other categories of "non-autonomous" individuals, such as those with severe cognitive disabilities?). It’s similar to why sex between professionals and clients is banned in certain industries—it isn't necessarily about the act itself being unacceptable, but rather the context, which is the only thing individualistic morality truly recognizes.

In practice, though, individualistic morality is much more fragile than we like to admit. Prescriptive morality feels more natural. Organizing a human society requires shared norms; every culture has its taboos, and our socialization mechanisms aren't inherently rational. We haven't moved past them yet.
Take incest, for example. Why do we have an issue with it? Fine, the rational argument is genetic abnormalities. But do we have an issue with incest between children who have no chance of producing offspring? Say, if one is sterile? Or if they are gay brothers? If we strictly adhered to individualistic morality, this shouldn't matter or trigger any sense of wrongness. But as a rule, we internalize societal norms, turning them into independent mental constructs and inevitably forming emotional reactions toward them.

The same applies to pedophilia. What began as a sensible law intended for protection has evolved into a deep-seated social taboo. In a way, it has stepped into the role once held by homosexuality as the primary sexual taboo of modern society—a shift that seems relatively recent if you look at cinema, literature, legal precedents, and public discourse.
Eric Gray2 Eric Gray2 Regular
254 messages
joined Jul 2014
#4 ·
jadewolf16 said:As for that other guy—honestly, speaking from my own experience—people who were "sexualized" early on actually tend to have way better sex lives, more stable families, and just a generally higher quality of life compared to us folks who were a bit behind the curve. So, I really don't see any reason why we should be trying to "rehabilitate" them or anything like that!

Look, you can speak for yourself based on what you've lived through, but personal experience doesn't justify making broad generalizations about entire groups of people like "those who..."🙂
analogbison21 analogbison21 Newcomer
1 message
joined Jan 2013
#5 ·

mistymason1 said:Watching this latest culture war between liberal permissivists and conservative submissivists over sex education in schools, I find it interesting how both sides view these two phenomena.

For conservatives, only pedophiles would dare put the words "sexuality" and "children" in the same sentence. This stems from the religious dogma that children—being "innocent"—are essentially asexual and therefore sinless, devoid of any sexual thoughts. A huge chunk of the criticism against introducing sex ed (specifically in 5th grade) is built on this premise. I guess that’s why Kinsey remains such a thorn in the side of American Christian radicals; he had the audacity to actually study childhood sexuality, effectively profaning what Christians believe should remain sacred.

But what I actually find most interesting is that both conservatives and liberals hold almost identical views regarding pedophilia.

The modern image of a pedophile usually depicts a psychopathic rapist, complete with all the cinematic tropes: the van with tinted windows, the basement with heavy metal doors and chains.

I remember those early media appearances by Gordana Buljan Flander where she described the personality traits of pedophiles. According to her, it might be someone who is mostly nonviolent and gets along well with kids—someone who knows how to "get down on their level"—but possesses one socially unacceptable trait: they are sexually aroused by prepubescent children. To achieve contact and satisfy that urge, they typically resort to various manipulations through play ("this is our little secret you can't tell anyone").

I’m curious about people who have studied this phenomenon, whether through literature or clinical practice: what are these individuals actually like? Are they the psychopathic aggressors portrayed in the media, or should we strictly distinguish between sadists—who use children merely as objects for humiliation and torment because they are weaker than adults—and, so to speak, actual pedophiles, who may love children, but perhaps a bit too much, expressing that love through socially unacceptable sexual means.

Another question that crossed my mind while thinking about this: how do we handle rehabilitation for children who were sexualized by adults "before their time"? In many interviews, child psychologists have mentioned that children who went through this show clear signs of excessive sexual permissiveness—a lack of shame, leading them to expose themselves in public or touch themselves and other children in intimate areas. Therefore, the therapist's "task" is to make the child realize that such behavior is a consequence of sexual abuse by an adult who had no right to act that way.

The problem and the paradox is that the trauma—the shame and embarrassment—often only surfaces at that point. An amoral cynic might argue that the actual abuse occurs during therapy itself, just to satisfy the imperatives of the superego and maintain socially acceptable behavior.

I have to admit, I wouldn't know how to answer an amoral cynic like that.

How do you see this paradox?

It’s a bit of a paradox, really. Humans—especially kids—are actually wired to soak up new information, even when that knowledge completely dismantles everything they thought they knew before. But there's a catch. That sudden realization often triggers this intense sense of shame or embarrassment. I guess people just hate the idea of anyone finding out they were walking around being wrong.

When you look at psychopaths and sadists, I guess you could argue they’re essentially just children with zero intellectual tools and a pretty questionable capacity for actually learning anything new. Their behavior seems driven by that sheer lack of insight. Personally, I suspect a huge number of these individuals wouldn't be the monsters they are if they had been raised in a household centered around actual knowledge and emotional intelligence. Maybe—and this is a big maybe—if they were exposed to that kind of upbringing from birth, we might see a shift. It's probably possible to change things in older subjects, too, though I'd wager it would only account for a tiny fraction of the population.
Paul Vaughn93 Paul Vaughn93 Newcomer
1 message
joined Feb 2013
#6 ·
Distracting people from the actual weapon being used? That’s a weapon in its own right.
northernpilot7 northernpilot7 Newcomer
1 message
joined Feb 2013
#7 ·
I suppose one could argue that children possess an innate sexual curiosity, showing interest in sexuality from a very early age, though
personally, I find the reality that they lack the emotional maturity for actual sexual activity—or the psychological and physical fallout that comes with it—to be the defining issue. They are unprepared and immature, yet occasionally they might engage in certain play with peers who are equally immature; but that is a separate matter entirely.

To my mind, pedophilia represents a far more severe perversion. A pedophile is essentially a psychopath—someone who possesses zero regard for a child’s psychological well-being. An adult ought to be mature and responsible, which this individual clearly is not; instead, they willfully exploit those who are unprepared in the most disgraceful way imaginable, destroying them emotionally. It seems to me that a victim of such actions can never truly escape the sense of having been exploited. The consequences are profound and psychologically devastating😲.

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