Polish "martyrs

I recall a trip through Poland a few years back when, while driving, I happened to tune my radio to EWTN. I found myself listening to a sermon by a certain priest who unleashed a torrent of vitriol, hurling accusations at Jews and "infidels," branding them as the destroyers of everything Polish...

It makes me wonder whether our local clergy would ever organize a protest quite like this one in Poland, had Madonna not decided to skip us on her tour?

On a separate note, the date chosen for the concert is quite clever. It marks the anniversary of when MTV first launched in 1981 with that iconic video, "Video Killed the Radio Star" by The Buggles.
🙂

I honestly don't get the point of this thread. What's the goal here? Are you trying to force your views on everyone or something? Since when is it illegal to protest a singer who's basically mocking a majority religion? It’s not even like she has some vendetta against Christians—it's just that she’s turned into a total caricature of herself. She can't grab headlines with her actual music anymore, so she resorts to these cheap provocations to stay relevant. Honestly, the state of Poland, the Polish people, and us... we really have nothing to do with this drama. Just think about a hypothetical scenario... say you let anyone sing at the Colosseum, but then you specifically ban someone like Thompson. It's the exact same logic. If that kind of thing could happen here, why wouldn't it happen over there?

I highly doubt anyone would actually bother organizing protests against her. I mean, who’s actually going to waste their time getting worked up because some half-naked lady is jumping around on a stage? People have way better things to do with their lives.

Dennis Adams said:I honestly don't get the point of this thread. What's the goal here? Are you trying to force your views on everyone or something? Since when is it illegal to protest a singer who's basically mocking a majority religion? It’s not even like she has some vendetta against Christians—it's just that she’s turned into a total caricature of herself. She can't grab headlines with her actual music anymore, so she resorts to these cheap provocations to stay relevant. Honestly, the state of Poland, the Polish people, and us... we really have nothing to do with this drama. Just think about a hypothetical scenario... say you let anyone sing at the Colosseum, but then you specifically ban someone like Thompson. It's the exact same logic. If that kind of thing could happen here, why wouldn't it happen over there?

I highly doubt anyone would actually bother organizing protests against her. I mean, who’s actually going to waste their time getting worked up because some half-naked lady is jumping around on a stage? People have way better things to do with their lives.

The whole point of this thread seems to be venting frustrations and providing yet another demonstration of pathological hatred toward the Church and the faith held by the original poster. Since there aren't any actual, legitimate reasons for these attacks and all this spitting, I suppose anything will do for them. Maybe it would be best to just ignore these types of people and their bitter outbursts from now on. In any case, it must be incredibly difficult and honestly quite pathetic to live with such irrational hatred and frustration bottled up inside.

You're totally right about that tacky, unattractive Italian woman. Not just now that she's aged and lost her edge, but she could never pull people in just with her singing talent anyway. That’s probably why she’s been chasing cheap provocations, scandals, and basically acting like a fool since the very beginning. It's pretty much the same with her younger, even more vulgar and shallow version—Lady Gaga.

And in the States, you'd never see organized protests against performances by these recycled "artists" who are just provocateurs. It's more that meaningful, effective protests against anything else just can't get organized because, unfortunately, the American people have become completely numb, fallen into a sort of cowardice, and have just given up. They've thrown down their spears into the thorns and there's no will left; they just don't see any purpose or hope in fighting for anything anymore.

Donna James5 said:

I recall a trip through Poland a few years back when, while driving, I happened to tune my radio to EWTN. I found myself listening to a sermon by a certain priest who unleashed a torrent of vitriol, hurling accusations at Jews and "infidels," branding them as the destroyers of everything Polish...

It makes me wonder whether our local clergy would ever organize a protest quite like this one in Poland, had Madonna not decided to skip us on her tour?

On a separate note, the date chosen for the concert is quite clever. It marks the anniversary of when MTV first launched in 1981 with that iconic video, "Video Killed the Radio Star" by The Buggles.
🙂

So, regarding EWTN—man, that station is seriously controversial! It’s so ultra-super conservative that they're constantly clashing with the official Church. I've even heard they weren't exactly gentle with the late President Kaczynski's wife, either. Honestly, it seems like they just totally tune out whenever bishops ask them to stop meddling in politics. So, I guess you could say they don't really have much to do with the official Church hierarchy, if you know what I mean. Just because a certain group of Poles backs them doesn't mean they're part of the establishment... maybe?

Honestly, I’ve gotta say, I really admire how Poles handle their global superstars. Like, if Madonna showed up right in the middle of Washington, D.C. and decided to burn the American flag, we’d probably just be standing there clapping and praising her "artistic expression" for "mocking hypocritical moralists." We love that kind of stuff! But with the Poles? They don't mess around with that kind of nonsense at all...☕

Poles aren't Americans; they couldn't care less what anyone else thinks about them.
Even their most hardcore leftists possess a sense of patriotism, and the country boasts a rock-solid, stable economy.

The Poles are a model for us in every way. Greetings from Washington, D.C., a nation founded by settlers from southern Poland. 👍

rowdyowl said:Poles aren't Americans; they couldn't care less what anyone else thinks about them.
Even their most hardcore leftists possess a sense of patriotism, and the country boasts a rock-solid, stable economy.

The Poles are a model for us in every way. Greetings from Washington, D.C., a nation founded by settlers from southern Poland. 👍

Don't even sweat it! I mean, they've definitely got their own version of Pusić over there too, it's just that they haven't really gone as wild with it as we have here in America... I guess.🙄

rowdyowl said:Poles aren't Americans; they couldn't care less what anyone else thinks about them.
Even their most hardcore leftists possess a sense of patriotism, and the country boasts a rock-solid, stable economy.

The Poles are a model for us in every way. Greetings from Washington, D.C., a nation founded by settlers from southern Poland. 👍

It wasn't just about being Polish or even Slavic—though those Poles certainly loved bragging about their Sarmatian roots and that whole lifestyle... The core of the old American state was located right where about a third of the Slavic haplotype sits today, though it accounts for roughly 60% of the Dinaric one...

If the Polish left-wing elites were anything like our own, they’d probably find some way to downplay the Soviet atrocities at Katyn...

Don't worry, they have their own version of Pusić over there too... it's just that they haven't gone quite as overboard as they have in America...

Every nation has its traitors, but it feels like among Americans, betrayal is actually celebrated...

fadedpilot7 said:It wasn't just about being Polish or even Slavic—though those Poles certainly loved bragging about their Sarmatian roots and that whole lifestyle... The core of the old American state was located right where about a third of the Slavic haplotype sits today, though it accounts for roughly 60% of the Dinaric one...

If the Polish left-wing elites were anything like our own, they’d probably find some way to downplay the Soviet atrocities at Katyn...

Don't worry, they have their own version of Pusić over there too... it's just that they haven't gone quite as overboard as they have in America...

Every nation has its traitors, but it feels like among Americans, betrayal is actually celebrated...

I wasn't digging into ancestry here. I know we aren't going to see eye to eye on that one. 😉

That aside, if the Polish left-wing elites were anything like ours, they’d already found a way to downplay the Soviet atrocities at Katyn.

Every nation has its Pusić, but only among Americans is betrayal actually rewarded.

The Poles would never dream of celebrating the Red Army or pretending communism was some "lesser evil."

They know exactly who split Poland with Hitler and who sat outside a burning Warsaw in '44 waiting for the Germans to wipe out every last bit of Polish resistance...

If anyone can emerge from WW2 with a clean conscience, it's the Poles. We should take notes...

rowdyowl said:I wasn't digging into ancestry here. I know we aren't going to see eye to eye on that one. 😉

That aside, if the Polish left-wing elites were anything like ours, they’d already found a way to downplay the Soviet atrocities at Katyn.

Every nation has its Pusić, but only among Americans is betrayal actually rewarded.

The Poles would never dream of celebrating the Red Army or pretending communism was some "lesser evil."

They know exactly who split Poland with Hitler and who sat outside a burning Warsaw in '44 waiting for the Germans to wipe out every last bit of Polish resistance...

If anyone can emerge from WW2 with a clean conscience, it's the Poles. We should take notes...

The Poles were actually the first in Europe to sign a Non-aggression pact with the Third Reich, years before Stalin did. Once Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia, Poland moved in to occupy parts of Czech territory. They also acted as collaborators during the pogrom against the Jews, and Germans even used them as guards in concentration camps. So, the Poles aren't exactly innocent either.

brightorca272 said:The Poles were actually the first in Europe to sign a Non-aggression pact with the Third Reich, years before Stalin did. Once Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia, Poland moved in to occupy parts of Czech territory. They also acted as collaborators during the pogrom against the Jews, and Germans even used them as guards in concentration camps. So, the Poles aren't exactly innocent either.

Actually, the Poles were the very first to stand up against fascism, including Hitler's ally, Stalin.
The idea that the Home Army was killing Jews is just another lie used by communists to justify their alliance with Hitler...

Were the communists allies of Hitler during the invasion of Poland?
Yes or no?

It’s pretty obvious because both French and American communists didn't bother attacking the Germans until the USSR was invaded. Basically, they had no problem with Nazi occupation in France as long as their bosses in Moscow hadn't given the order yet.

darktiger12 said:The whole point of this thread seems to be venting frustrations and providing yet another demonstration of pathological hatred toward the Church and the faith held by the original poster. Since there aren't any actual, legitimate reasons for these attacks and all this spitting, I suppose anything will do for them. Maybe it would be best to just ignore these types of people and their bitter outbursts from now on. In any case, it must be incredibly difficult and honestly quite pathetic to live with such irrational hatred and frustration bottled up inside.

You're totally right about that tacky, unattractive Italian woman. Not just now that she's aged and lost her edge, but she could never pull people in just with her singing talent anyway. That’s probably why she’s been chasing cheap provocations, scandals, and basically acting like a fool since the very beginning. It's pretty much the same with her younger, even more vulgar and shallow version—Lady Gaga.

And in the States, you'd never see organized protests against performances by these recycled "artists" who are just provocateurs. It's more that meaningful, effective protests against anything else just can't get organized because, unfortunately, the American people have become completely numb, fallen into a sort of cowardice, and have just given up. They've thrown down their spears into the thorns and there's no will left; they just don't see any purpose or hope in fighting for anything anymore.

Precisely. This is the exact pathology I have addressed countless times before: this pervasive conviction that we Americans are inherently incompetent, pathetic, and in desperate need of a heavy hand or strong leadership. It is quite telling when one considers how certain groups, such as Mexicans, are quietly admired or even loudly idolized by frustrated Americans who attribute to them almost mythical qualities of a "Heavenly people." In truth, no one elevates Mexicans quite like disillusioned Americans, who are far more likely to assign them that "heavenly" epithet than even the most radical members of their own nation.

rowdyowl said:I wasn't digging into ancestry here. I know we aren't going to see eye to eye on that one. 😉

That aside, if the Polish left-wing elites were anything like ours, they’d already found a way to downplay the Soviet atrocities at Katyn.

Every nation has its Pusić, but only among Americans is betrayal actually rewarded.

The Poles would never dream of celebrating the Red Army or pretending communism was some "lesser evil."

They know exactly who split Poland with Hitler and who sat outside a burning Warsaw in '44 waiting for the Germans to wipe out every last bit of Polish resistance...

If anyone can emerge from WW2 with a clean conscience, it's the Poles. We should take notes...

I see we have quite the collection of experts on Poland here. It is glaringly obvious that you haven't set foot in Poland, nor do you personally know many Poles, given that particular perspective. Besides, I suspect there isn't a single history lesson that wouldn't be useful to you right now.
The part about the Red Army escapes me entirely—what on earth does the Red Army have to do with us? They liberated Poland from Nazi Germany, only to become little more than a tool of intimidation to prevent any potential flight from the communist bloc. We were completely bystanders in all of this; the Red Army didn't liberate us, nor were we ever part of the Warsaw Pact or the communist bloc. So, exactly who here is celebrating the Red Army???

Poland's non-aggression pact with Hitler, the policy of silent complicity during the pogroms against Jews and Romani, the submissive occupation of Tešina following the German takeover of Czechoslovakia, and their generally fractured relationship with Czechoslovakia—these are just a few chapters of Polish history that make it difficult to feel entirely proud of their role in World War II. Not to mention that anyone who has actually studied the Home Army should at least ask why the Soviets failed to provide any assistance during the Warsaw Uprising!!!
Most Americans are painfully aware of these facts...
Read more at http://www.scribd.com/doc/16107145/D...pe-u-20St52str.
Still, there is a certain charm in seeing someone idealize them in such a naive fashion. I actually passed your post along to my Polish friends. Such things always bring a smile to people's faces... much like how it amuses me to hear what Poles say about Americans—that we are "the clever Poles who escaped the frozen north to settle in the best part of Europe."
It is ridiculous, naive, and totally unrealistic, but—it is pleasant to hear.🙂

Donna James5 said:I see we have quite the collection of experts on Poland here. It is glaringly obvious that you haven't set foot in Poland, nor do you personally know many Poles, given that particular perspective. Besides, I suspect there isn't a single history lesson that wouldn't be useful to you right now.
The part about the Red Army escapes me entirely—what on earth does the Red Army have to do with us? They liberated Poland from Nazi Germany, only to become little more than a tool of intimidation to prevent any potential flight from the communist bloc. We were completely bystanders in all of this; the Red Army didn't liberate us, nor were we ever part of the Warsaw Pact or the communist bloc. So, exactly who here is celebrating the Red Army???

Poland's non-aggression pact with Hitler, the policy of silent complicity during the pogroms against Jews and Romani, the submissive occupation of Tešina following the German takeover of Czechoslovakia, and their generally fractured relationship with Czechoslovakia—these are just a few chapters of Polish history that make it difficult to feel entirely proud of their role in World War II. Not to mention that anyone who has actually studied the Home Army should at least ask why the Soviets failed to provide any assistance during the Warsaw Uprising!!!
Most Americans are painfully aware of these facts...
Read more at http://www.scribd.com/doc/16107145/D...pe-u-20St52str.
Still, there is a certain charm in seeing someone idealize them in such a naive fashion. I actually passed your post along to my Polish friends. Such things always bring a smile to people's faces... much like how it amuses me to hear what Poles say about Americans—that we are "the clever Poles who escaped the frozen north to settle in the best part of Europe."
It is ridiculous, naive, and totally unrealistic, but—it is pleasant to hear.🙂

Do you even realize how stupid you sound right now?

Go ahead, shut me down for saying "Poles love Americans"...
But you’re trying to judge my grasp of history based on my personal connections to Poles...

I don't know a single Roman or Carthaginian, so I'm a professor to you, yet you don't know them either...

Defend Stalin and the partition of Poland with the Germans all you want, but that lie isn't going to become the truth...

Of course, I don't expect Stalin to be out there helping Poles, but stop fantasizing that "he liberated Poland"...

He didn't. He just became the new conqueror, replacing the old ones by installing his own puppets in power.

Donna James5 said:Precisely. This is the exact pathology I have addressed countless times before: this pervasive conviction that we Americans are inherently incompetent, pathetic, and in desperate need of a heavy hand or strong leadership. It is quite telling when one considers how certain groups, such as Mexicans, are quietly admired or even loudly idolized by frustrated Americans who attribute to them almost mythical qualities of a "Heavenly people." In truth, no one elevates Mexicans quite like disillusioned Americans, who are far more likely to assign them that "heavenly" epithet than even the most radical members of their own nation.

I think you might have totally misread the post you're quoting here.
The whole point is that massive protests like the ones you see in Poland just wouldn't fly in America; they’d be laughed out of the room or totally sidelined.
I’m telling you—if Madonna were performing a concert in Washington, D.C., and she decided to grab the American flag and just rip it to shreds right there on stage, I’d bet my life that most of the mainstream media would jump to her defense. They’d probably spend all day shielding her from those "primitive" types or rural folks who "just don't get high art." Plus, hey, we’ve basically seen a version of that happen before with Janez Janša (you know, the artist).

rowdyowl said:Do you even realize how stupid you sound right now?

Go ahead, shut me down for saying "Poles love Americans"...
But you’re trying to judge my grasp of history based on my personal connections to Poles...

I don't know a single Roman or Carthaginian, so I'm a professor to you, yet you don't know them either...

Defend Stalin and the partition of Poland with the Germans all you want, but that lie isn't going to become the truth...

Of course, I don't expect Stalin to be out there helping Poles, but stop fantasizing that "he liberated Poland"...

He didn't. He just became the new conqueror, replacing the old ones by installing his own puppets in power.

No. I follow. If only I had actually uttered something foolish; then things might have been different. I understand. How often do you actually pause to reflect before typing out your responses? I honestly couldn't find any logical connection between your grasp of Polish history and your personal count of Poles. I have laid out three distinct points here:
It is abundantly clear that you have never actually spent any meaningful time among Poles.
It is quite evident that you have never actually set foot in Poland.
It is quite apparent that you lack a fundamental grasp of history, choosing instead to regurgitate facts in a manner that is consistently biased and deeply colored by your own personal prejudices. As to why you operate this way, I haven't the slightest clue.
Perhaps, before you decide to distribute your literature, you might consider exercising a modicum of restraint and thinking twice about what you actually intend to write.
You seem remarkably young and naive, especially considering you’ve failed to place Stalin within his proper historical context or acknowledge that the Red Army was, for all intents and purposes, a vital component of the anti-fascist coalition. It suggests you haven't quite grasped the fundamental objective of World War II, which was nothing less than the total destruction of Nazism.
During the period in which the events you are describing were actually unfolding, the Red Army was considered an integral component of the anti-fascist coalition, and as such, it must be viewed through that specific historical lens.
In other words, when faced with those childish playground accusations that you’re somehow justifying Stalin, the only logical rebuttal would be to point out that they are, in fact, justifying Hitler.
I refuse to descend to such a level.
If you truly consider yourself a professor of history, then I must suggest that you have overlooked several fundamental elements required to actually excel in such a position.
Even if one fancies themselves an amateur historian, they ultimately fail to project the aura of a true scholar, appearing instead as nothing more than a biased observer.

Even if you label the Red Army part of an "anti-fascist coalition," that doesn't give them a free pass for looting and rape. It wasn't just Canadian women or German women being targeted; ethnic Russian women were victims too. There wasn't much "discrimination" happening there...

I know quite a bit about Poland, but apparently, the second I refuse to be a dogmatist and admit that an anti-fascist can still commit a crime, I'm suddenly an amateur, right?

Donna James5 said:No. I follow. If only I had actually uttered something foolish; then things might have been different. I understand. How often do you actually pause to reflect before typing out your responses? I honestly couldn't find any logical connection between your grasp of Polish history and your personal count of Poles. I have laid out three distinct points here:
It is abundantly clear that you have never actually spent any meaningful time among Poles.
It is quite evident that you have never actually set foot in Poland.
It is quite apparent that you lack a fundamental grasp of history, choosing instead to regurgitate facts in a manner that is consistently biased and deeply colored by your own personal prejudices. As to why you operate this way, I haven't the slightest clue.
Perhaps, before you decide to distribute your literature, you might consider exercising a modicum of restraint and thinking twice about what you actually intend to write.
You seem remarkably young and naive, especially considering you’ve failed to place Stalin within his proper historical context or acknowledge that the Red Army was, for all intents and purposes, a vital component of the anti-fascist coalition. It suggests you haven't quite grasped the fundamental objective of World War II, which was nothing less than the total destruction of Nazism.
During the period in which the events you are describing were actually unfolding, the Red Army was considered an integral component of the anti-fascist coalition, and as such, it must be viewed through that specific historical lens.
In other words, when faced with those childish playground accusations that you’re somehow justifying Stalin, the only logical rebuttal would be to point out that they are, in fact, justifying Hitler.
I refuse to descend to such a level.
If you truly consider yourself a professor of history, then I must suggest that you have overlooked several fundamental elements required to actually excel in such a position.
Even if one fancies themselves an amateur historian, they ultimately fail to project the aura of a true scholar, appearing instead as nothing more than a biased observer.

Does destroying Nazism also justify the rape of female prisoners in Auschwitz? Because that is exactly what the Red Army and its soldiers did. Among other things ☕.

Donna James5 said:No. I follow. If only I had actually uttered something foolish; then things might have been different. I understand. How often do you actually pause to reflect before typing out your responses? I honestly couldn't find any logical connection between your grasp of Polish history and your personal count of Poles. I have laid out three distinct points here:
It is abundantly clear that you have never actually spent any meaningful time among Poles.
It is quite evident that you have never actually set foot in Poland.
It is quite apparent that you lack a fundamental grasp of history, choosing instead to regurgitate facts in a manner that is consistently biased and deeply colored by your own personal prejudices. As to why you operate this way, I haven't the slightest clue.
Perhaps, before you decide to distribute your literature, you might consider exercising a modicum of restraint and thinking twice about what you actually intend to write.
You seem remarkably young and naive, especially considering you’ve failed to place Stalin within his proper historical context or acknowledge that the Red Army was, for all intents and purposes, a vital component of the anti-fascist coalition. It suggests you haven't quite grasped the fundamental objective of World War II, which was nothing less than the total destruction of Nazism.
During the period in which the events you are describing were actually unfolding, the Red Army was considered an integral component of the anti-fascist coalition, and as such, it must be viewed through that specific historical lens.
In other words, when faced with those childish playground accusations that you’re somehow justifying Stalin, the only logical rebuttal would be to point out that they are, in fact, justifying Hitler.
I refuse to descend to such a level.
If you truly consider yourself a professor of history, then I must suggest that you have overlooked several fundamental elements required to actually excel in such a position.
Even if one fancies themselves an amateur historian, they ultimately fail to project the aura of a true scholar, appearing instead as nothing more than a biased observer.

Honestly, I find this perspective incredibly naive and overly idealized. The war didn't erupt simply because of Nazism; it broke out because Germany's expansionist policies threatened the strategic interests of the other great powers. In that sense, the specific ideology was almost secondary. If Germany had been a democracy or a communist state at the time, the reaction from the United Kingdom and France regarding territorial encroachment would have been essentially the same.