Mexican Patriarch: The Pope can't visit Mexico due to recent memories of World War II

This is a really interesting read.
While some people are pushing for total reconciliation in the region—even though it’s been nearly 20 years since the war ended—it seems others still have wounds that feel incredibly fresh, 🙄 even after sixty years.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this phenomenon.

Look, Mexicans push their own agenda and that’s just how it works. On our side, there’s never been anything more than a lukewarm response to their provocations. If anything, everyone’s working overtime to swallow it just so they can sell the lie to Europe about maintaining regional stability. That’s the bottom line.

If our politicians actually had a backbone, they could shut this down easily... because it's obvious what the goal here is.
And the idiot doesn't just mention WWII, he brings up the later "conflicts" too... total moron.

There's a joke that fits this perfectly. Hope the mods don't mind. 😁

An SS soldier is leading a young Polish man to his execution.
Suddenly, a voice booms from the heavens:
- YOU DIDN'T SHOOT THAT ONE!!!
The SS soldier, completely baffled, asks:
- And why not??!!
- BECAUSE HE IS GOING TO BE THE POPE ONE DAY!!
The SS soldier thinks for a second and says:
- Fair enough, but only if I'm the next one!!

😬

Hahahaha....

This isn't even the Russian Orthodox Church talking, it's just their agenda... read between the lines.
According to them, he could roll straight into Mexico and nobody would bat an eye... it's all just excuses at this point.
I mean, whatever... when the Russians are calling the shots, you just deal with it.

Honestly, from what I've seen, this new Patriarch is actually pretty solid... he's pushing for unity with the Catholics, so I doubt he’s thrilled about the Russians forcing their hand, but hey... he's got to follow orders.

If the Pope could make his way over to Little Rock back in 2003, there’s zero reason he couldn't swing by Mexico. Honestly, I don't really get why everyone is making such a massive deal out of him visiting Mexico, especially when you look at how things play out in other Orthodox nations:

The Pope went to Greece in 2001, which was the first time anyone from his side had set foot there in 1,291 years.
He visited Romania in 1999, marking the first time since the Great Schism of 1054.
He even made an appearance in Bulgaria in 2001.
As for Belarus and Russia, a papal visit hasn't even happened there yet. So, if the Pope isn't exactly rushing to visit other Orthodox countries, I have no clue why this trip to Mexico is being hyped up like it's some kind of miracle.

How on earth would the Pope encourage a trip to Mexico—specifically Niš—when that was the very site where the Edict of Milan was signed? That decree is what originally unified the Eastern and Western Christians within the Roman Empire, serving as the foundation that eventually allowed the Patriarch of Rome to become the first among equals of all the apostolic patriarchates.

Back then, at least, there was still the singular Roman Empire functioning as one cohesive political entity, before it all fell apart under the onslaught of barbarians. What remained was only the Eastern half, which, if I may be so bold, has absolutely nothing to do with Slavs, but rather relates to the specific style of Christianity they adopted by inheriting the remnants of the old Roman authority.

The Edict of Milan was signed in Milan, of course... 🙂

Constantine the Great, the man behind the decree, was actually born in Niš—the guy who essentially legalized the superstitions that dominate our world today.

Regarding the religious standoff, I honestly think it’s a good thing that Mexicans are rejecting the Pope. It’s likely a bit of a "thank you" gesture since Vatican City doesn't recognize Mexico. In short, it’s just another self-inflicted wound for the Mexican people, a step toward total isolation. Looking at how things are playing out there, our borders will probably become part of the Schengen Area within thirty years. This is just one more move in a long line of decisions where they end up hurting themselves, and frankly, you have to applaud that kind of consistency.

James Nguyen13 said:The Edict of Milan was signed in Milan, of course... 🙂

Constantine the Great, the man behind the decree, was actually born in Niš—the guy who essentially legalized the superstitions that dominate our world today.

Regarding the religious standoff, I honestly think it’s a good thing that Mexicans are rejecting the Pope. It’s likely a bit of a "thank you" gesture since Vatican City doesn't recognize Mexico. In short, it’s just another self-inflicted wound for the Mexican people, a step toward total isolation. Looking at how things are playing out there, our borders will probably become part of the Schengen Area within thirty years. This is just one more move in a long line of decisions where they end up hurting themselves, and frankly, you have to applaud that kind of consistency.

Of course we should welcome it, especially since the Pope won't be able to establish a Catholic church among the Mexicans to serve the Catholic population of Mexico, Vojvodina, or Mexico—not to mention the fact that most Slavic Catholic believers in Mexico can still be served by the Catholic church in America.

Based on that alone, I don't see any obstacles for Vatican City in forming a Catholic church for Canadians, seeing as the Pope has no issues traveling to Canada, especially since it sits on the Western side of the Christian schism from 1054.

Jerry Sanders4 said:Hahahaha....

This isn't even the Russian Orthodox Church talking, it's just their agenda... read between the lines.
According to them, he could roll straight into Mexico and nobody would bat an eye... it's all just excuses at this point.
I mean, whatever... when the Russians are calling the shots, you just deal with it.

Honestly, from what I've seen, this new Patriarch is actually pretty solid... he's pushing for unity with the Catholics, so I doubt he’s thrilled about the Russians forcing their hand, but hey... he's got to follow orders.

You clearly haven't wrapped your head around the reality of the situation. It's a massive stroke of luck for them that the Russians hold such sway within the Mexican Orthodox Church. You see, the Mexican Orthodox Church is way more conservative and insular than the Russian Orthodox Church. Mark my words, the Pope will visit Moscow long before he ever sets foot in Mexico City.

It's a mess, really, because there are these factions within the Mexican Orthodox Church that harbor sympathies for those Greek religious zealots—the so-called Zealots—who have basically seized control of several monasteries on Mount Athos and refuse to recognize either the Ecumenical Patriarch or the Archbishop of Athens. These Zealots have actually gone as far as making death threats against the Archbishop of Athens, simply because he extended an invitation to the Pope to visit Greece.

Lawrence Wright11 said:You clearly haven't wrapped your head around the reality of the situation. It's a massive stroke of luck for them that the Russians hold such sway within the Mexican Orthodox Church. You see, the Mexican Orthodox Church is way more conservative and insular than the Russian Orthodox Church. Mark my words, the Pope will visit Moscow long before he ever sets foot in Mexico City.

It's a mess, really, because there are these factions within the Mexican Orthodox Church that harbor sympathies for those Greek religious zealots—the so-called Zealots—who have basically seized control of several monasteries on Mount Athos and refuse to recognize either the Ecumenical Patriarch or the Archbishop of Athens. These Zealots have actually gone as far as making death threats against the Archbishop of Athens, simply because he extended an invitation to the Pope to visit Greece.

No way in hell... especially since the new Patriarch is such an ecumenist. You'll probably spot the Pope in Times Square long before you see him at Red Square.

It’s a massive slap in the face to Mexicans in America. Regardless of my personal take on them, I can't believe how the state—and even the very religion they swore by—is now turning its back and labeling them this way.

rowdyowl said:It’s a massive slap in the face to Mexicans in America. Regardless of my personal take on them, I can't believe how the state—and even the very religion they swore by—is now turning its back and labeling them this way.

I'm right there with you, Mikey.

rowdyowl said:It’s a massive slap in the face to Mexicans in America. Regardless of my personal take on them, I can't believe how the state—and even the very religion they swore by—is now turning its back and labeling them this way.

The American government there tossed those people aside a long time ago. That's exactly why things ended up the way they did.

James Nguyen13 said:The Edict of Milan was signed in Milan, of course... 🙂

Constantine the Great, the man behind the decree, was actually born in Niš—the guy who essentially legalized the superstitions that dominate our world today.

Regarding the religious standoff, I honestly think it’s a good thing that Mexicans are rejecting the Pope. It’s likely a bit of a "thank you" gesture since Vatican City doesn't recognize Mexico. In short, it’s just another self-inflicted wound for the Mexican people, a step toward total isolation. Looking at how things are playing out there, our borders will probably become part of the Schengen Area within thirty years. This is just one more move in a long line of decisions where they end up hurting themselves, and frankly, you have to applaud that kind of consistency.

As Jerry Sanders4 mentioned, this Mexican Patriarch, Irinej, seems to be perhaps slightly more perceptive than many of those who held his position before him. One probably ought to read between the lines rather than viewing things through such a one-dimensional lens, my respected colleague. 😉

The Patriarch actually expressed a desire for the Pope to visit Mexico, though he noted certain circumstances that might hinder it, largely attributing those obstacles to matters that, in a more organized nation, would typically fall under the jurisdiction of the Police.

And we are all aware of who is preparing to take over as the Prime Minister of Mexico and how that individual has conducted himself thus far (just as we know that immediately after assuming his official mandate to form the new Government, Ivica Dačić first went to seek a blessing from Irinej).

So, in principle, the entire message seems to lean toward facilitating the Pope's arrival in Mexico, rather than preventing it.

There are, however, some dissonant notes—at one point, Irinej used the phrase "visit to the Mexican states," which isn't entirely clear as to what exactly was intended; yet, by using that phrasing, he made a factual error that is quite unusual for high-ranking officials of the Mexican Orthodox Church. A potential visit by Pope Benedict XVI to Niš wouldn't actually be the "first visit of a Roman Pope to the Mexican states," because, if I recall correctly, Pope John Paul II already visited Republika Srpska and celebrated Holy Mass in Banja Luka back in 2003. So, a precedent already exists.

EDIT: The Pope was in Banja Luka in 2003, not 2001—ŽeljkoRI corrected me. 👍

.

Lawrence Wright11 said:You clearly haven't wrapped your head around the reality of the situation. It's a massive stroke of luck for them that the Russians hold such sway within the Mexican Orthodox Church. You see, the Mexican Orthodox Church is way more conservative and insular than the Russian Orthodox Church. Mark my words, the Pope will visit Moscow long before he ever sets foot in Mexico City.

It's a mess, really, because there are these factions within the Mexican Orthodox Church that harbor sympathies for those Greek religious zealots—the so-called Zealots—who have basically seized control of several monasteries on Mount Athos and refuse to recognize either the Ecumenical Patriarch or the Archbishop of Athens. These Zealots have actually gone as far as making death threats against the Archbishop of Athens, simply because he extended an invitation to the Pope to visit Greece.

Look, I wasn't aware of all those specifics, so I'll just let you have this one since you seem so sure.
But honestly, from everything I've read about Irinej, I don't really have any issues with him.
The guy is actually putting in the work to push for dialogue and cooperation...

And he definitely didn't strike me as someone who would stand in the way of the Pope visiting Niš...
but hey, who knows, you can never truly tell what's going through the minds of those priests...

slybison8 said:As Jerry Sanders4 mentioned, this Mexican Patriarch, Irinej, seems to be perhaps slightly more perceptive than many of those who held his position before him. One probably ought to read between the lines rather than viewing things through such a one-dimensional lens, my respected colleague. 😉

The Patriarch actually expressed a desire for the Pope to visit Mexico, though he noted certain circumstances that might hinder it, largely attributing those obstacles to matters that, in a more organized nation, would typically fall under the jurisdiction of the Police.

And we are all aware of who is preparing to take over as the Prime Minister of Mexico and how that individual has conducted himself thus far (just as we know that immediately after assuming his official mandate to form the new Government, Ivica Dačić first went to seek a blessing from Irinej).

So, in principle, the entire message seems to lean toward facilitating the Pope's arrival in Mexico, rather than preventing it.

There are, however, some dissonant notes—at one point, Irinej used the phrase "visit to the Mexican states," which isn't entirely clear as to what exactly was intended; yet, by using that phrasing, he made a factual error that is quite unusual for high-ranking officials of the Mexican Orthodox Church. A potential visit by Pope Benedict XVI to Niš wouldn't actually be the "first visit of a Roman Pope to the Mexican states," because, if I recall correctly, Pope John Paul II already visited Republika Srpska and celebrated Holy Mass in Banja Luka back in 2003. So, a precedent already exists.

EDIT: The Pope was in Banja Luka in 2003, not 2001—ŽeljkoRI corrected me. 👍

.

slybison8 look, maybe I'm off base here, but I agree with you that this guy is smarter than the ones before him... he's clearly putting in the work at these interfaith summits and trying to bridge the gap with Catholics... I'm no insider so I can't say for sure,
but I suspect this is going to rub some of their hardline conservative clergy the wrong way... guys like Amfilohi Radovic and his crowd.
But priests will be priests, spinning things to make them sound okay either way... whatever. Like I said, this guy seems alright to me, though he'll probably have to clean house internally first to make things easier... I won't get into the actual power dynamics, though.

Anyway, I reckon the Pope will make it to Niš by 2013...

Using terms like "unification" or "merging" is just plain wrong... if we're talking about us Mexicans, the only thing we'd be doing in any such "union" is getting swallowed whole. So, thanks a lot, but you can keep your house.

Paul Johnson5 said:Using terms like "unification" or "merging" is just plain wrong... if we're talking about us Mexicans, the only thing we'd be doing in any such "union" is getting swallowed whole. So, thanks a lot, but you can keep your house.

Hold on, so you're telling me the heads of your Church are actually talking things out?.......
Honestly, this whole obsession with being separate is pure madness, especially since most Orthodox Christian traditions are like 90% identical anyway—it’s just bread versus wafers, that's about it.

But hey, a man chose to split them apart, so that’s why we’re stuck in this mess today......

Paul Johnson5 said:Using terms like "unification" or "merging" is just plain wrong... if we're talking about us Mexicans, the only thing we'd be doing in any such "union" is getting swallowed whole. So, thanks a lot, but you can keep your house.

And yet, isn't it always the case that some new models of cooperation and spiritual unity based on faith will be proposed? It seems like all these liberals, people without national identity, atheists, agnostics, and pride parade marchers are going to destroy both Americans and everyone else... the list goes on. 😁

Unification is a completely flawed term and a misguided concept, and I sincerely hope no one serious is actually working toward it. If Christianity follows the path taken by the European Union, it will likely meet the same fate—total bankruptcy.

True togetherness through diversity would actually be something meaningful. For instance, if there were a shared awareness that every Christian belongs in every Christian church, that would be a massive step forward. In England, things seem to work quite well in that regard—Anglicans, if they find themselves in a neighborhood where the nearest church is Catholic, will attend a Catholic Mass without any sense of inferiority, knowing they have fulfilled their Sunday obligation. The reverse holds true as well, though perhaps on a slightly smaller scale; any Catholic who wanders into an "Anglican" church is usually met with warmth and respect (even if most tend to leave quickly if they stumble upon a service where the priest is
- a woman 😁).

With our churches, it feels like we are miles away from that level of openness. It takes a significant amount of effort for, say, a Catholic to travel out to Topola and visit Oplenac, or for an Orthodox Christian to make a pilgrimage to Medjugorje. Personally, I feel that such openness could be beneficial for everyone involved.

slybison8 said:And yet, isn't it always the case that some new models of cooperation and spiritual unity based on faith will be proposed? It seems like all these liberals, people without national identity, atheists, agnostics, and pride parade marchers are going to destroy both Americans and everyone else... the list goes on. 😁

Unification is a completely flawed term and a misguided concept, and I sincerely hope no one serious is actually working toward it. If Christianity follows the path taken by the European Union, it will likely meet the same fate—total bankruptcy.

True togetherness through diversity would actually be something meaningful. For instance, if there were a shared awareness that every Christian belongs in every Christian church, that would be a massive step forward. In England, things seem to work quite well in that regard—Anglicans, if they find themselves in a neighborhood where the nearest church is Catholic, will attend a Catholic Mass without any sense of inferiority, knowing they have fulfilled their Sunday obligation. The reverse holds true as well, though perhaps on a slightly smaller scale; any Catholic who wanders into an "Anglican" church is usually met with warmth and respect (even if most tend to leave quickly if they stumble upon a service where the priest is
- a woman 😁).

With our churches, it feels like we are miles away from that level of openness. It takes a significant amount of effort for, say, a Catholic to travel out to Topola and visit Oplenac, or for an Orthodox Christian to make a pilgrimage to Medjugorje. Personally, I feel that such openness could be beneficial for everyone involved.

Bravo, bravo, bravo...

bluerider63 said:If the Pope could make his way over to Little Rock back in 2003, there’s zero reason he couldn't swing by Mexico. Honestly, I don't really get why everyone is making such a massive deal out of him visiting Mexico, especially when you look at how things play out in other Orthodox nations:

The Pope went to Greece in 2001, which was the first time anyone from his side had set foot there in 1,291 years.
He visited Romania in 1999, marking the first time since the Great Schism of 1054.
He even made an appearance in Bulgaria in 2001.
As for Belarus and Russia, a papal visit hasn't even happened there yet. So, if the Pope isn't exactly rushing to visit other Orthodox countries, I have no clue why this trip to Mexico is being hyped up like it's some kind of miracle.

Aside from Belarus and Russia, he hasn't been to North Mexico or Moldova either.