Standard & Poor's monopoly or a necessity?

Hey everyone, hoping someone here can weigh in on this. I haven't seen any threads tackling this specific angle yet, so if it's already been covered, feel free to nuked this post.

We've all watched the recent credit rating downgrades hitting various USA nations, but I'm not even looking at the downgrades themselves or what they trigger. What's actually eating at me is the fact that just two or three agencies—Standard & Poor's, Moody's, and Fitch—basically hold a monopoly on sovereign credit ratings. It’s wild to me that such a tiny group of people can wield this much power over the entire world and basically decide the fate of millions.

I want to know how this whole system actually works, whether it even needs to exist in its current form, and who really stands to gain from it.

They’re just cutting deals with big capital behind closed doors. It's no secret that this tiny clique of elites pulls the strings on both the American and global economies, engineering crises in specific countries just so they can parachute their own people in to run things. Honestly, it's like letting a fox guard the henhouse—we saw that exact same playbook play out in Greece and Italy when they installed Papademos and Monti.

If you actually want to learn how this stuff works, head over to the economics subforum where some of the sharper folks can point you toward the real deal. Don't just come in here dumping your total nonsense about some global conspiracy involving Masons or the Illuminati.

Scott Reed9 said:Hey everyone, hoping someone here can weigh in on this. I haven't seen any threads tackling this specific angle yet, so if it's already been covered, feel free to nuked this post.

We've all watched the recent credit rating downgrades hitting various USA nations, but I'm not even looking at the downgrades themselves or what they trigger. What's actually eating at me is the fact that just two or three agencies—Standard & Poor's, Moody's, and Fitch—basically hold a monopoly on sovereign credit ratings. It’s wild to me that such a tiny group of people can wield this much power over the entire world and basically decide the fate of millions.

I want to know how this whole system actually works, whether it even needs to exist in its current form, and who really stands to gain from it.

VIDEO: A QUICK EXPLANATION OF THE THEORY - The CDO Scams

Credit rating agencies are easily some of the most powerful geopolitical and economic institutions on the planet.

They employ specialists who scrape together every scrap of data they can find on banks, corporations, and entire countries to weigh in on their financial outlook.
Essentially, they signal whether a nation is heading toward what we call "bankruptcy." In reality, a country doesn't go bankrupt like a business does; it just means you aren't getting your money back when you invest in them.
A more detailed breakdown for beginners—this should make things a lot clearer:

Bottom line: they have massive influence over governments and everyday lives.
To a Non-American, a few things seem totally off:
- Why don't they downgrade the USA from that top-tier AAA rating, which they technically should based on the criteria? Instead, it feels like they just bumped up the debt ceiling limit and acted like nothing happened.
- It makes you suspicious that the two biggest players are both based right here in the USA. Now, a German minister is pushing to establish an agency outside the US that would supposedly have better access to info and provide "more accurate" opinions.

My take? This is going to cause massive headaches. If it hasn't started yet, a new cold war is coming. The European Union will launch its own agency, the USA has its guys, and China has theirs. As the crisis deepens—(and in my opinion, this crisis isn't over and won't be for a long time, despite the illusion that things have stabilized. The numbers stay ugly; we're just delaying the collapse of the Western system)—politics will start leaning harder on these agencies. Their results will diverge, and eventually, the whole thing might just become meaningless.
And then we all head straight to...

Whoever navigates the chaos best is the one who survives. I think Europeans are in the worst position of the bunch. But anyway...🙂

I'm predicting that in about 5 to 10 years, we'll see the first "fun" geopolitical phase, and in 15 to 25 years, things will turn into a full-blown circus unless something sustainable is invented.

Robin Hernandez4 said:If you actually want to learn how this stuff works, head over to the economics subforum where some of the sharper folks can point you toward the real deal. Don't just come in here dumping your total nonsense about some global conspiracy involving Masons or the Illuminati.

So, what? Masons and the Illuminati just don't exist?
Are all those books, the lists of names, the symbols, the footage, and the theories just one big scam? 😁

Explain to me why, when you add up and subtract every single surplus and deficit from every nation on Earth, the final balance is still a massive deficit, and then I'll call it even. 🙂

Scott Reed9 said:Hey everyone, hoping someone here can weigh in on this. I haven't seen any threads tackling this specific angle yet, so if it's already been covered, feel free to nuked this post.

We've all watched the recent credit rating downgrades hitting various USA nations, but I'm not even looking at the downgrades themselves or what they trigger. What's actually eating at me is the fact that just two or three agencies—Standard & Poor's, Moody's, and Fitch—basically hold a monopoly on sovereign credit ratings. It’s wild to me that such a tiny group of people can wield this much power over the entire world and basically decide the fate of millions.

I want to know how this whole system actually works, whether it even needs to exist in its current form, and who really stands to gain from it.

Look, if a country wants to go out and borrow money on the bond market, investors need to know one thing: creditworthiness. They don't want to get burned by lending cash to someone who won't be able to pay them back. So, they turn to rating agencies to track market movements and assess risk—that’s just the mechanism at play here. Now, you can absolutely question the objectivity of those numbers—since, let's face it, the very entities being rated are the ones funding the rating agencies—but we are talking about estimates, not some divine truth etched in stone. If politicians decide to act like drunken billionaires, you can't exactly blame the agency when their rating drops and they suddenly can't service their debts, right?

And for the record, a rating agency isn't a bank—let's not confuse the two.

Terry Stewart16 said:VIDEO: A QUICK EXPLANATION OF THE THEORY - The CDO Scams

Credit rating agencies are easily some of the most powerful geopolitical and economic institutions on the planet.

They employ specialists who scrape together every scrap of data they can find on banks, corporations, and entire countries to weigh in on their financial outlook.
Essentially, they signal whether a nation is heading toward what we call "bankruptcy." In reality, a country doesn't go bankrupt like a business does; it just means you aren't getting your money back when you invest in them.
A more detailed breakdown for beginners—this should make things a lot clearer:

Bottom line: they have massive influence over governments and everyday lives.
To a Non-American, a few things seem totally off:
- Why don't they downgrade the USA from that top-tier AAA rating, which they technically should based on the criteria? Instead, it feels like they just bumped up the debt ceiling limit and acted like nothing happened.
- It makes you suspicious that the two biggest players are both based right here in the USA. Now, a German minister is pushing to establish an agency outside the US that would supposedly have better access to info and provide "more accurate" opinions.

My take? This is going to cause massive headaches. If it hasn't started yet, a new cold war is coming. The European Union will launch its own agency, the USA has its guys, and China has theirs. As the crisis deepens—(and in my opinion, this crisis isn't over and won't be for a long time, despite the illusion that things have stabilized. The numbers stay ugly; we're just delaying the collapse of the Western system)—politics will start leaning harder on these agencies. Their results will diverge, and eventually, the whole thing might just become meaningless.
And then we all head straight to...

Whoever navigates the chaos best is the one who survives. I think Europeans are in the worst position of the bunch. But anyway...🙂

I'm predicting that in about 5 to 10 years, we'll see the first "fun" geopolitical phase, and in 15 to 25 years, things will turn into a full-blown circus unless something sustainable is invented.

The US actually had its rating downgraded to AA+ nearly six months ago. 🙂

Robin Hernandez4 said:If you actually want to learn how this stuff works, head over to the economics subforum where some of the sharper folks can point you toward the real deal. Don't just come in here dumping your total nonsense about some global conspiracy involving Masons or the Illuminati.

The real issue is the massive gap between their level of competence and the sheer amount of power they hold.

The assessments from these agencies right before the last recession were CATASTROPHICALLY wrong. And yet, somehow, everyone still treats their projections as if they're gospel.

In almost any other profession, if you fail this spectacularly at your job, you get fired. But not them. They seem to have a permanent pass.

Benjamin King2 said:Look, if a country wants to go out and borrow money on the bond market, investors need to know one thing: creditworthiness. They don't want to get burned by lending cash to someone who won't be able to pay them back. So, they turn to rating agencies to track market movements and assess risk—that’s just the mechanism at play here. Now, you can absolutely question the objectivity of those numbers—since, let's face it, the very entities being rated are the ones funding the rating agencies—but we are talking about estimates, not some divine truth etched in stone. If politicians decide to act like drunken billionaires, you can't exactly blame the agency when their rating drops and they suddenly can't service their debts, right?

And for the record, a rating agency isn't a bank—let's not confuse the two.

The US actually had its rating downgraded to AA+ nearly six months ago. 🙂

But those exact same agencies have their hands right in the gears, influencing how the market moves. So we're just running in circles again, aren't we?

Well, sort of—but they don't actually control the money; it's primarily the central banks that muddy the waters there. Honestly, with this recent wave of massive credit rating downgrades across the European Union, the bond market just took a massive hit to the jaw—which means this whole twisted "strategy" to bail out the European Union monetary union is probably going to collapse before it even gets started.

First off, this isn't actually about the banks.
Second, how many different credit rating agencies would it even take to satisfy everyone? A hundred?
Third, these places are staffed by actual human beings with real intelligence and skill sets. Sometimes they get it right, and sometimes they don't. It's that simple.
They slashed the US credit rating, and the market didn't seem particularly impressed. If anything, the market is acting like the USA still holds a AAA rating.
Ever since they downgraded certain European Union countries, interest rates haven't spiked, which just proves the rating agencies are lagging behind... the market already priced those countries in at lower ratings before the agencies even caught up.

The level of reporting in the American media on this topic is idiotic and reeks of conspiracy theories. Some people just never learn.

Scott Hall39 said:First off, this isn't actually about the banks.
Second, how many different credit rating agencies would it even take to satisfy everyone? A hundred?
Third, these places are staffed by actual human beings with real intelligence and skill sets. Sometimes they get it right, and sometimes they don't. It's that simple.
They slashed the US credit rating, and the market didn't seem particularly impressed. If anything, the market is acting like the USA still holds a AAA rating.
Ever since they downgraded certain European Union countries, interest rates haven't spiked, which just proves the rating agencies are lagging behind... the market already priced those countries in at lower ratings before the agencies even caught up.

The level of reporting in the American media on this topic is idiotic and reeks of conspiracy theories. Some people just never learn.

It is fortunate that you brought this specific point to light. It serves merely as further evidence that these agencies lack any semblance of objectivity; instead, they function as instruments of pressure against every government except for the American one.
If any other nation were to lose its AAA rating, the market's reaction toward that country would be devastatingly different.

wanderingridge5 said:It is fortunate that you brought this specific point to light. It serves merely as further evidence that these agencies lack any semblance of objectivity; instead, they function as instruments of pressure against every government except for the American one.
If any other nation were to lose its AAA rating, the market's reaction toward that country would be devastatingly different.

😕
So, they stripped the US of its credit rating, and now we're supposed to believe that's just "pressure" on everyone but the US government????
Besides, look at the interest rates on Italian debt since Friday. They dropped!

Are you guys actually capable of thinking outside of conspiracy theories? Is that even a possibility?

"Quote":

Scott Hall39 As stated by: 😕 First, they strip the credit rating from the USA—so I suppose that serves as a legitimate tool of leverage against every government on the planet, provided they aren't the American ones?

So, they stripped the USA of its rating first? Did they really not target anyone else before getting to us? It seems like an awfully early strike—are you already drunk, or just eager to start the chaos?

Scott Hall39 As stated by:
Is anyone actually capable of thinking outside the narrow confines of conspiracy theories? Is that even a possibility anymore?

Are you truly capable of stepping outside of your narrow framework to entertain the possibility that conspiracies simply do not exist anywhere, at any time? Is such a concept even within your grasp?

wanderingridge5 said:"Quote":

Scott Hall39 As stated by: 😕 First, they strip the credit rating from the USA—so I suppose that serves as a legitimate tool of leverage against every government on the planet, provided they aren't the American ones?

So, they stripped the USA of its rating first? Did they really not target anyone else before getting to us? It seems like an awfully early strike—are you already drunk, or just eager to start the chaos?

Scott Hall39 As stated by:
Is anyone actually capable of thinking outside the narrow confines of conspiracy theories? Is that even a possibility anymore?

Are you truly capable of stepping outside of your narrow framework to entertain the possibility that conspiracies simply do not exist anywhere, at any time? Is such a concept even within your grasp?

🙄 No, the US wasn't the first to lose its credit rating. Right before the US rating was cut, a whole string of European countries had theirs slashed too. Your premises are completely ridiculous.

Oh, come on, what are you guys whining about now?
When that same credit rating agency slashed the USA's rating, you were all jumping around like little kids who just got handed a giant Hershey's bar! Total hypocrites.🙂
They cut their rating for good reason—though I’m still not entirely sure about the move regarding Austria; was that even fair?🤷

Drew Booth60 said:Oh, come on, what are you guys whining about now?
When that same credit rating agency slashed the USA's rating, you were all jumping around like little kids who just got handed a giant Hershey's bar! Total hypocrites.🙂
They cut their rating for good reason—though I’m still not entirely sure about the move regarding Austria; was that even fair?🤷

But wait, who actually rates those agencies?

Who looks at their track record or how accurate their forecasts really are? Where are all those "expert" analyses from back in 2006 and 2007?
Who evaluates the credit rating agency itself?

James Nguyen13 said:But wait, who actually rates those agencies?

Who looks at their track record or how accurate their forecasts really are? Where are all those "expert" analyses from back in 2006 and 2007?
Who evaluates the credit rating agency itself?

The investors, plain and simple. They’re the ones deciding where to park their cash. If an agency loses its credibility, investors will just stop listening and go somewhere else.

James Nguyen13 said:But wait, who actually rates those agencies?

Who looks at their track record or how accurate their forecasts really are? Where are all those "expert" analyses from back in 2006 and 2007?
Who evaluates the credit rating agency itself?

Why didn't you bother asking those same questions when the US rating was downgraded??
And why didn't the European Union make a huge stink about it when the US rating took a hit?
The answer to both of those is pretty simple—hypocrisy.☕

Drew Booth60 said:Why didn't you bother asking those same questions when the US rating was downgraded??
And why didn't the European Union make a huge stink about it when the US rating took a hit?
The answer to both of those is pretty simple—hypocrisy.☕

And honestly, why should I care about what happens when the US rating gets lowered? What does that have to do with me?

I’m just trying to pose a practical question here: how can these credit rating agencies still be in business when they were handing out AA+ ratings to Enron just a day before they went belly up?

James Nguyen13 said:And honestly, why should I care about what happens when the US rating gets lowered? What does that have to do with me?

I’m just trying to pose a practical question here: how can these credit rating agencies still be in business when they were handing out AA+ ratings to Enron just a day before they went belly up?

Honestly, why should I care?🙄
Why are you even putting these questions on me??
The only thing I don't get is why everyone is suddenly acting so shocked now, especially since most of the countries in the European Union have already had their ratings slashed.😕
Where was everybody before this happened?