Gold: Past, Present, and Future

electricsurfer47 said:Is it actually worth picking up a gold bar? I’ve been thinking about moving some cash out of my bank account since they're just going to bleed me dry with those savings taxes. I was weighing up whether I should go with a CD or just buy a little gold bar and tuck it away at home. I'm a total newbie at this stuff, though, so I wanted to see what the vibe is right now? What's the current situation looking like?

Look, if you want a few reasons why jumping into gold might actually make sense, here's the breakdown:

Savings accounts—basically a slow-motion way to lose money.
Gold—the ultimate "sleep better at night" hedge?
Gold bars—the real reason people trust the Swiss Franc.

Jamie Reed2 said:Is investing in gold jewelry actually worth it? It feels pretty practical—I mean, I can just wear my investment whenever I feel like it. But I’ve got another question regarding this whole thing... I’ve noticed that some pieces I bought recently don't have that classic 14k hallmark they used to have. In fact, they don't seem to have any markings at all. Is that just the new norm, or should I be getting suspicious? Everything was bought from the same jeweler over the years.

The spread—the gap between the buy and sell price—is massive for gold jewelry. Investing in jewelry isn't recommended, at least not through your local mall jeweler. For example, a gram of 14K gold might cost you over $35 at a shop, but when you try to sell it back to that same jeweler, you might only get $20. You're looking at a loss of nearly 40%. The spread is over 40%...

The smallest spread is found in 1 oz gold coins. If you buy a 1 oz coin today, you might pay $2,100, but you could sell it for $2,050. That spread is less than 3%...

http://smh.net/at/anlegen/preisliste.html

Regarding the hallmarks, if you bought it at a legitimate jeweler, it shouldn't be an issue. A stamp isn't a guarantee; you can buy stuff online today and stamp anything that shines. If you ever go to sell the gold, they will likely test it using a specific acid solution that changes color if it truly is 14K gold...

You're going to see the tightest spreads if you stick to the 1kg bars.

@Jamie Reed2...buying gold jewelry is hands down the worst way to actually invest in the metal.

One-kilogram bars aren't exactly practical unless you happen to be a millionaire. If someone needs to liquidate a bit of gold for a few thousand dollars, they aren't going to be out there hacking a massive bar into fifty-gram chunks.

For smaller purchases, my recommendation would be single gold coins. The current spread on them is slightly north of 3%, and they go for under $130 apiece. They are highly sought after both domestically and abroad, making them incredibly fast and easy to liquidate.

You're spot on there.
But if we're talking about a smaller spread on a 1kg bar—well, that's just 😁

Taylor Robinson51 said:One-kilogram bars aren't exactly practical unless you happen to be a millionaire. If someone needs to liquidate a bit of gold for a few thousand dollars, they aren't going to be out there hacking a massive bar into fifty-gram chunks.

For smaller purchases, my recommendation would be single gold coins. The current spread on them is slightly north of 3%, and they go for under $130 apiece. They are highly sought after both domestically and abroad, making them incredibly fast and easy to liquidate.

What are those coins actually called? And how many grams are we talking about?

By the way, the gap between the buy and sell price—the spread—at that "Goldman Sachs" place being mentioned is way, way higher than 3%.

Thomas Patel6 said:What are those coins actually called? And how many grams are we talking about?

By the way, the gap between the buy and sell price—the spread—at that "Goldman Sachs" place being mentioned is way, way higher than 3%.

Here’s the rundown on all the gold coins: https://www.bankazlata.com/kategorij...-franjo-josip/

The spread on those coins really shouldn't be pushing past 3%. Did you actually give them a ring and have them quote you a specific percentage?

I picked up a few from them myself once, though I've never been one to turn around and sell 'em back.

Thomas Patel6 said:What are those coins actually called? And how many grams are we talking about?

By the way, the gap between the buy and sell price—the spread—at that "Goldman Sachs" place being mentioned is way, way higher than 3%.

They’re usually referred to as Franz Joseph coins or single ducats. They weigh in at about 3.49 grams, though they aren't quite as pure as the New York Philharmonic ones (986/999).

Over at http://smh.net/, the difference is 4.40 EUR.
And over at https://www.goldundco.at/en/precious-metal-prices.html, it's 6.95 EUR, though you have to account for the fact that the spread on the New York Philharmonic pieces is tighter compared to the ounce.

Joseph Ward2 said:Here’s the rundown on all the gold coins: https://www.bankazlata.com/kategorij...-franjo-josip/

The spread on those coins really shouldn't be pushing past 3%. Did you actually give them a ring and have them quote you a specific percentage?

I picked up a few from them myself once, though I've never been one to turn around and sell 'em back.

But if you look at their site, they list both the buy and sell prices. And honestly, the gap is way bigger than 3%.

Michael Morgan5 said:They’re usually referred to as Franz Joseph coins or single ducats. They weigh in at about 3.49 grams, though they aren't quite as pure as the New York Philharmonic ones (986/999).

Over at http://smh.net/, the difference is 4.40 EUR.
And over at https://www.goldundco.at/en/precious-metal-prices.html, it's 6.95 EUR, though you have to account for the fact that the spread on the New York Philharmonic pieces is tighter compared to the ounce.

I swung by Home Depot today because I wanted to see those 3.5g coins in person. I checked out that American Eagle Outfitters one or whatever it's called, also 3.5g.

Man, I was floored. First off, it's tiny—like, seriously small, like a damn nickel!!!
And second, the price tag was $367!!!

Home Depot is basically just a chain of gold buyback stations at this point. Honestly, I don't get the appeal—why would anyone bother buying or selling investment-grade gold through them?

They’ve got this special edition featuring Franz Joseph aimed at the little collectors, but even then, they seem to be charging more than Goldman Sachs if my math is right.
If you actually decide to pull the trigger and buy from them, just a heads-up: their buyback rates for coins purchased elsewhere are totally different, so make sure you hang onto that 'certificate' they hand you.
I put 'certificate' in quotes because, let's be real, the coins themselves don't actually have serial numbers.

Michael Morgan5 said:Home Depot is basically just a chain of gold buyback stations at this point. Honestly, I don't get the appeal—why would anyone bother buying or selling investment-grade gold through them?

They’ve got this special edition featuring Franz Joseph aimed at the little collectors, but even then, they seem to be charging more than Goldman Sachs if my math is right.
If you actually decide to pull the trigger and buy from them, just a heads-up: their buyback rates for coins purchased elsewhere are totally different, so make sure you hang onto that 'certificate' they hand you.
I put 'certificate' in quotes because, let's be real, the coins themselves don't actually have serial numbers.

Not trying to act like a know-it-all here... but I just went to measure that old 5-cent nickel we used to have. It's about 18 millimeters across.

Meanwhile, that New York Philharmonic coin weighing 3-ish grams, which costs roughly $333, is only 16 millimeters wide.

Look, I'm definitely no expert when it comes to gold investing... But paying around $333 for a coin that's literally smaller than a nickel?! Isn't gold a little overrated?

Thomas Patel6 said:Not trying to act like a know-it-all here... but I just went to measure that old 5-cent nickel we used to have. It's about 18 millimeters across.

Meanwhile, that New York Philharmonic coin weighing 3-ish grams, which costs roughly $333, is only 16 millimeters wide.

Look, I'm definitely no expert when it comes to gold investing... But paying around $333 for a coin that's literally smaller than a nickel?! Isn't gold a little overrated?

😁 I felt the exact same way when I held a 1 kg gold bar for the first time. It's basically the size of an iPhone, yet it's worth like $90. Here’s the link to the pic.

But honestly, if you actually stop to think about it, size and weight don't mean squat. Look at it this way: if you toss a coin and a $100 bill on a scale, the coin is gonna weigh more, but the cash is obviously worth way more (for now). Seems totally backwards, right? But why should something tiny or light be less valuable than something big and heavy? Back in the day, with cell phones, the rule was always the same—the smaller the thing, the higher the price tag.

These guys made some solid points about why gold is priced the way it is: https://www.goldcorp.com/gold-value/

Thomas Patel6 said:Not trying to act like a know-it-all here... but I just went to measure that old 5-cent nickel we used to have. It's about 18 millimeters across.

Meanwhile, that New York Philharmonic coin weighing 3-ish grams, which costs roughly $333, is only 16 millimeters wide.

Look, I'm definitely no expert when it comes to gold investing... But paying around $333 for a coin that's literally smaller than a nickel?! Isn't gold a little overrated?

Spot on.
And don't even get me started on the color, good grief. 🙄
If it were blue, I might find a way to justify $333, but this shade of yellow? It’s nothing. The whole thing is just pure hype. 👎

So, I’ve been chewing on this for a bit—is there actually any meaningful distinction between getting gold bars from Brink's (Goldman Sachs) versus picking up some from Rockefeller? Like, does one brand carry more weight or prestige than the other, or am I just overthinking it? Basically, are these bars functionally identical in value, or is there some kind of hierarchy I should be worried about...

Thomas Patel6 said:Not trying to act like a know-it-all here... but I just went to measure that old 5-cent nickel we used to have. It's about 18 millimeters across.

Meanwhile, that New York Philharmonic coin weighing 3-ish grams, which costs roughly $333, is only 16 millimeters wide.

Look, I'm definitely no expert when it comes to gold investing... But paying around $333 for a coin that's literally smaller than a nickel?! Isn't gold a little overrated?

Gold has maintained its massive value throughout history. Back during the Renaissance, a single ducat could serve as a weekly wage for a skilled craftsman, covering all expenses for a large family. Though, they didn't have to worry about gas prices back then...

Nowadays, gold trades at around $2,300 an ounce, while the actual cost of mining it sits near $1,500 per ounce. So, it isn't quite as simple as someone finding shiny yellow pebbles in the dirt and selling them to gullible investors...

http://www.mining.com/gold-miners-su...rice-bottomed/

Silver took another hit today, dropping over 60 cents to slide comfortably below $17. The gold-to-silver ratio is hovering near 80 again. Once this thing finally pivots, the returns are going to be massive—it’ll be a beautiful sight. One needs to adopt that mindset. As I've mentioned before, things are playing out without much drama. Personally, I'm not seeing any major red flags. Well, maybe some, but certainly nothing involving gold... Anyone picking up a pallet of copper right now might actually be a genius. Prices are swinging wildly based on inflation rates, and for now, everyone is distracted by crypto. That's the order of operations being followed.

"The window for buying is almost closed"

Mark Sullivan62 said:So, I’ve been chewing on this for a bit—is there actually any meaningful distinction between getting gold bars from Brink's (Goldman Sachs) versus picking up some from Rockefeller? Like, does one brand carry more weight or prestige than the other, or am I just overthinking it? Basically, are these bars functionally identical in value, or is there some kind of hierarchy I should be worried about...

Honestly, I don't see much of a distinction other than the fact that you see Brink's being moved way more often in Canada and around here, which is probably why I personally feel a bit more comfortable with their stuff.
I did some digging into the pricing, and from what I can tell, Brink's (Goldman Sachs) is actually a better deal than the other guys. Sure, those other places run promotions now and then, but they still end up costing more than Goldman Sachs.

I also ran the numbers on bar prices comparing the Vienna Philharmonic (Federal Reserve instead of Associated Press) in Austria and Germany against Goldman Sachs, and I honestly don't get why anyone would bother buying abroad when the price gap is only a few bucks. Shipping a single ounce from Austria costs $45! In my opinion, unless you're planning to go pick up two kilograms of gold in person, you might as well just buy it locally.

1150 Federal Reserve compared to an 1131 Federal Reserve ask at the Vienna Philharmonic for an ounce—you really think a few bucks difference doesn't matter?

Michael Morgan5 said:1150 Federal Reserve compared to an 1131 Federal Reserve ask at the Vienna Philharmonic for an ounce—you really think a few bucks difference doesn't matter?

I’m looking at the numbers again and right now there's a 13 dollar gap—it's 1130 over in Austria versus 1143 at Goldman Sachs. And when I compare those prices against Germany, the spread is only about 2 or 3 dollars, depending on which shop you're checking in Germany.

I just want to point out that chasing a 13 dollar saving by ordering from abroad isn't worth it because the shipping costs will absolutely wreck you. Of course, if you happen to be driving through Austria for other business anyway, then sure, why not swing by and pick up a couple of musician pieces while you're at it.

Honestly, we’ve all spent way too much time arguing about the New York Philharmonic, but if you ask me, the new Maple Leaf is easily the best one out there. Yeah, it carries a higher premium, but since the buyback price is also better, you end up breaking even in the end.

Yeah, they just lowered the ask at Goldman Sachs to 5 EUR. When I was typing my post last night, it was sitting at 1150.30, but that’s probably just because the Austrians refresh their pricing on a 24-hour cycle.

From where I’m standing, making the trip over to Austria to pick up the goods is an absolute no-brainer.
Between gas, tolls, and grabbing a decent lunch, I’m looking at about 100 USD if I head out solo.
But here’s the kicker... you don't have to deal with any annoying currency conversion losses or middleman bank fees. You just walk in with cash and walk out with gold.