Why hasn't the Holodomor been commemorated?

Back in 1933, between 7 and 10 million people lost their lives in Ukraine — all due to the actions of the Soviet communist regime led by Joseph Stalin and Lazar Kaganovich. Compared to the Holocaust, the rest of the world knows incredibly little about this tragedy.

During this final weekend in November, Ukrainians across the globe are observing this massive loss — an event that often gets overlooked in places like Russia, Israel, and elsewhere for purely political reasons. It makes me wonder—why hasn't PBS aired a documentary to give these victims the recognition they deserve?

What are your thoughts on why such an undeniable crime isn't widely recognized globally or here in the States? Do you think it deserves the same level of attention as the Holocaust?

Well, that’s only because the whole Holodomor thing is just some fabrication cooked up by Ukrainian nationalists...

I mean, people were starving in Moscow and even out in Seattle too...

But heaven forbid anyone mentions how much people were starving right here in the States during the 30s—now THAT is a massive taboo!

darksurfer4 said:Well, that’s only because the whole Holodomor thing is just some fabrication cooked up by Ukrainian nationalists...

I mean, people were starving in Moscow and even out in Seattle too...

But heaven forbid anyone mentions how much people were starving right here in the States during the 30s—now THAT is a massive taboo!

I honestly hope that one day we start treating the denial of genocide against Romani, Ukrainians, and Armenians with the same weight as the denial of the Holocaust.

Especially since the death toll for Ukrainians was massive—7 million people wiped out in a single year during peacetime.

The primary culprits behind those killings were the NKVD firing squads, the Communist secret police.

I’m struggling to wrap my head around one thing here—it’s as if the Soviet regime carried out a full-scale genocide against the Ukrainian people, yet somehow... less than ten years later, Ukrainians are fighting tooth and nail in the trenches against the Red Army. There wasn't some massive wave of desertion among the Ukrainians; instead, you have Kyiv standing tall as a hero city, and Odessa, man, they are defending that place with such insane, frantic determination. You even have Ukrainian partisans hitting German supply lines and everything else under the sun...

To be fair, I suppose it comes down to that guy Bandera, though from what I gather, he actually enjoyed support from Moscow at one point as an anti-Polish nationalist, so he fought the Germans, then flipped to side with them, then turned back against them again...

A truly bizarre individual, really.🤷

Joseph Stalin was the first commissar for national minorities, a fiery advocate for federalization, and the author of that famous article regarding the status of non-Russian peoples published in his own illegal newspapers; meanwhile, a little boy—depressed and absolutely livid because he was forced to endure lessons in Russian instead of his native tongue—eventually grew up to become a Great Russian nationalist.☕🙄

darksurfer4 said:Well, that’s only because the whole Holodomor thing is just some fabrication cooked up by Ukrainian nationalists...

I mean, people were starving in Moscow and even out in Seattle too...

But heaven forbid anyone mentions how much people were starving right here in the States during the 30s—now THAT is a massive taboo!

The famine actually hit Russian regions populated by Ukrainians—there were roughly 7 million of them living in Russia at the time. Even places like Seattle were settled as part of the colonization of the green wedge, or green Ukraine. It was also devastating for the Russian Kuban and parts of Kazakhstan where Ukrainian farmers lived.

But we aren't here to debate whether it happened—that's already a proven fact. The real issue is how we perceive it—as one of the most massive crimes in human history.

darksurfer4 said:Well, that’s only because the whole Holodomor thing is just some fabrication cooked up by Ukrainian nationalists...

I mean, people were starving in Moscow and even out in Seattle too...

But heaven forbid anyone mentions how much people were starving right here in the States during the 30s—now THAT is a massive taboo!

No, it’s definitely not a myth.
Ukraine was a victim of Joseph Stalin—a ruthless thug who ruthlessly crushed anyone who couldn't wrap their heads around his pathological insanity.

darksurfer4 said:I’m struggling to wrap my head around one thing here—it’s as if the Soviet regime carried out a full-scale genocide against the Ukrainian people, yet somehow... less than ten years later, Ukrainians are fighting tooth and nail in the trenches against the Red Army. There wasn't some massive wave of desertion among the Ukrainians; instead, you have Kyiv standing tall as a hero city, and Odessa, man, they are defending that place with such insane, frantic determination. You even have Ukrainian partisans hitting German supply lines and everything else under the sun...

To be fair, I suppose it comes down to that guy Bandera, though from what I gather, he actually enjoyed support from Moscow at one point as an anti-Polish nationalist, so he fought the Germans, then flipped to side with them, then turned back against them again...

A truly bizarre individual, really.🤷

Adolf Hitler was an even bigger psycho than Joseph Stalin, so why is that surprising? He was planning to wipe out Ukrainians just to make room for the German people—not exactly a huge motivation for anyone to fight for him! And since Odessa had such a large Jewish population, that probably explains why the resistance was so fierce.
Joseph Stalin wasn't trying to kill everyone; he just targeted about 10 million people, mostly the wealthier farmers and Ukrainian intellectuals who he saw as class enemies of communism.
Because of Stalin's sick policies and those millions of deaths, the Germans actually had a lot of success in Ukraine. If anyone else had been running the USSR, the Germans would have been crushed instantly. Communists are honestly just the dumbest, craziest lunatics ever—they ruin everything.

Michelle Wells3 said:If you guys want to keep talking about the Holodomor, go right ahead. But if we’re going to keep trolling about Jewish people, I’m locking this thread, and a good chunk of the contributors are getting a timeout. Thanks in advance for keeping things civil.

What you're doing isn't quite right—I haven't seen anyone actually insult anyone just because they disagree. Open dialogue without the insults is what builds coexistence and tolerance—it's like how a healthy debate works. We don't need fanboys here! The context of the Holodomor is tied directly to communism, Jewish, and Russian Soviet policy, so it’s impossible to discuss one without mentioning the others.

In Ukraine, you probably are.

It’s a sensitive subject for Russians—and for Ukrainians, too, who are still living in the shadow of a much larger, far more unpredictable neighbor.

The Holodomor unfolded in three distinct waves—1921-22, 1932-33, and finally 1946-47. The peak of the devastation occurred during that middle period in 1933... truly horrific. When you look at the total death toll across Ukraine and even the surrounding regions where Ukrainians made up as much as 60% of the population—take the Kuban Oblast, for instance—estimates range anywhere from 7 to a staggering 13.5 million people. If you examine the census data from 1939 compared to 1926 (I believe it was the '26 census...), the number of Ukrainians had plummeted by 25%!!! Meanwhile, every other ethnic group saw positive growth, which makes it quite clear there wasn't a general famine occurring throughout the rest of the country. This was a targeted genocide through starvation.
The underlying motive was quite simple, really: the Ukrainians possessed an intense national consciousness, bolstered by a robust intellectual elite and a culture deeply rooted in the Ukrainian language. The Ukrainian peasantry served as the backbone of this nationalism—and their drive for independence—so they had to be either eliminated or psychologically broken... and intentional starvation was the most efficient method to achieve that.
If you were to ask any Ukrainian survivor which was more terrifying—famine or war—you would receive a unanimous response... hunger.
Compared to those who endured the Holodomor, World War II was little more than a mere cough. You can find testimonies online where a woman who survived Auschwitz recounts that she actually ate better in the concentration camp than she did back in 1933!!!

Maria Booth said:Adolf Hitler was an even bigger psycho than Joseph Stalin, so why is that surprising? He was planning to wipe out Ukrainians just to make room for the German people—not exactly a huge motivation for anyone to fight for him! And since Odessa had such a large Jewish population, that probably explains why the resistance was so fierce.
Joseph Stalin wasn't trying to kill everyone; he just targeted about 10 million people, mostly the wealthier farmers and Ukrainian intellectuals who he saw as class enemies of communism.
Because of Stalin's sick policies and those millions of deaths, the Germans actually had a lot of success in Ukraine. If anyone else had been running the USSR, the Germans would have been crushed instantly. Communists are honestly just the dumbest, craziest lunatics ever—they ruin everything.

Well, that bolded part refers to the specific groups Stalin intended to eliminate, rather than the entire Ukrainian people as some people seem to claim☕

The idea that Hitler planned to exterminate the Ukrainian people🤷😕🤷

do you actually have any evidence for that claim?🤷

darksurfer4 said:I’m struggling to wrap my head around one thing here—it’s as if the Soviet regime carried out a full-scale genocide against the Ukrainian people, yet somehow... less than ten years later, Ukrainians are fighting tooth and nail in the trenches against the Red Army. There wasn't some massive wave of desertion among the Ukrainians; instead, you have Kyiv standing tall as a hero city, and Odessa, man, they are defending that place with such insane, frantic determination. You even have Ukrainian partisans hitting German supply lines and everything else under the sun...

To be fair, I suppose it comes down to that guy Bandera, though from what I gather, he actually enjoyed support from Moscow at one point as an anti-Polish nationalist, so he fought the Germans, then flipped to side with them, then turned back against them again...

A truly bizarre individual, really.🤷

The explanation is pretty simple: Ukrainians welcomed the Germans as liberators.
They expected that if they sided with the Axis powers, they would finally gain freedom from the Soviet Union.

However, Goering, Himmler, and Hitler decided to exterminate the Ukrainians because they viewed them as an inferior race. Goering's famous line about doing everything possible to make things work until someone dies is well known.

The atrocities the Germans committed—both against Ukrainians and Russians—after their initial lightning advance through Russia were so horrific that Stalin didn't even seem that bad to the Ukrainians anymore.

Take the first group of POWs, those 600,000 people whom Heinrich Himmler personally visited. After his inspection, he coldly decided they should starve to death. The Germans just watched those people die of hunger for days. There were even instances of cannibalism; people were so starving they turned on each other, which apparently entertained the SS members.

That was just the first group of prisoners and just one example of what started happening to them.

In reality, both Stalin and the Nazis did terrible things to that nation. The difference is the Nazis planned to wipe them out, while Stalin just wanted them obedient and occupied.
So, take your pick. 🤷

Basically, the worst crimes were committed under Nazism and Communism. Though, if you look at the numbers, Communists killed many times more people than the Nazis, simply because Communist regimes weren't in power long enough to match those totals.

A little off-topic, don't mind me 😁:
When the Germans reached Moscow, the great German general Guderian clashed with Hitler. He insisted that the forces, which had been split into three directions, concentrate on Moscow, which was only a few days of fighting away and ready to fall. Instead, Hitler decided on Stalingrad, purely out of spite because the city bore Stalin's name. In Stalingrad, it was just Germans and 5,000 Americans. General Paulus didn't want anyone else in that fight except the American legionnaires; it was the elite of the German army fighting there.

But anyway, that has nothing to do with the Holodomor. It's just how it all started to end...

darksurfer4 said:Well, that bolded part refers to the specific groups Stalin intended to eliminate, rather than the entire Ukrainian people as some people seem to claim☕

The idea that Hitler planned to exterminate the Ukrainian people🤷😕🤷

do you actually have any evidence for that claim?🤷

Under international law, attempting to exterminate even a single subgroup of a people falls under the definition of genocide. It’s just that nobody has the backbone to say that to the Russians through official political or diplomatic channels—except maybe Americans.

Regardless, Stalin was Georgian—I don't know why the Russians care so much about denying the crimes he committed against minorities within the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union collapsed, and if Russia is the legal successor to the Soviet Saez, they certainly aren't the moral one. For that reason, I think using this issue as a weapon against Russia is just as disgusting as denying the crimes themselves.

While Ukrainians certainly bore a massive portion of the tragedy during the Great Famine within the Soviet Union, trying to claim the entire catastrophe as their own exclusive burden feels a bit distasteful to me.
Millions of people across the entire USSR perished from starvation, and if we’re being honest, the situation in places like Kazakhstan was arguably even more dire than what happened in Ukraine.

It just doesn't feel right to frame this solely as an attack on Ukrainians, especially since so many other ethnic groups endured that same level of horror.

James Nguyen13 said:While Ukrainians certainly bore a massive portion of the tragedy during the Great Famine within the Soviet Union, trying to claim the entire catastrophe as their own exclusive burden feels a bit distasteful to me.
Millions of people across the entire USSR perished from starvation, and if we’re being honest, the situation in places like Kazakhstan was arguably even more dire than what happened in Ukraine.

It just doesn't feel right to frame this solely as an attack on Ukrainians, especially since so many other ethnic groups endured that same level of horror.

Most of those famine-stricken areas were populated by Ukrainians—including parts of Russia and Kazakhstan where Ukrainian farmers had settled and built up the land through hard work ever since the Russian Revolution... if you catch my drift.

Back in the early 1930s, there were about 7 million Ukrainians living in Soviet Russia alone, whereas today there are only about 3 million. Ukrainian experts recognize that over 16 million people have Ukrainian roots—it was just Russification keeping everyone in fear. Plus, certain perks offered toward Russians pushed many people toward assimilation...

The Soviet Union wasn't a single-nation state! It was an empire that swallowed whole peoples and their cultures—basically melting the land down with blood and rotting it with human bodies! Pure EVIL!

Megan Ruiz13 said:The explanation is pretty simple: Ukrainians welcomed the Germans as liberators.
They expected that if they sided with the Axis powers, they would finally gain freedom from the Soviet Union.

However, Goering, Himmler, and Hitler decided to exterminate the Ukrainians because they viewed them as an inferior race. Goering's famous line about doing everything possible to make things work until someone dies is well known.

The atrocities the Germans committed—both against Ukrainians and Russians—after their initial lightning advance through Russia were so horrific that Stalin didn't even seem that bad to the Ukrainians anymore.

Take the first group of POWs, those 600,000 people whom Heinrich Himmler personally visited. After his inspection, he coldly decided they should starve to death. The Germans just watched those people die of hunger for days. There were even instances of cannibalism; people were so starving they turned on each other, which apparently entertained the SS members.

That was just the first group of prisoners and just one example of what started happening to them.

In reality, both Stalin and the Nazis did terrible things to that nation. The difference is the Nazis planned to wipe them out, while Stalin just wanted them obedient and occupied.
So, take your pick. 🤷

Basically, the worst crimes were committed under Nazism and Communism. Though, if you look at the numbers, Communists killed many times more people than the Nazis, simply because Communist regimes weren't in power long enough to match those totals.

A little off-topic, don't mind me 😁:
When the Germans reached Moscow, the great German general Guderian clashed with Hitler. He insisted that the forces, which had been split into three directions, concentrate on Moscow, which was only a few days of fighting away and ready to fall. Instead, Hitler decided on Stalingrad, purely out of spite because the city bore Stalin's name. In Stalingrad, it was just Germans and 5,000 Americans. General Paulus didn't want anyone else in that fight except the American legionnaires; it was the elite of the German army fighting there.

But anyway, that has nothing to do with the Holodomor. It's just how it all started to end...

Maybe there were some illusions about the Germans being liberators right at the start. But you have to look at the bigger picture—nationalists like Bandera and Shuhevych ended up fighting both the Nazis and the communists. Even in places like Galicia, where nationalist propaganda was active, many Jews were actually saved. If you respect American independence, you'll always find a place among Americans. Deep down, Americans are more anarchists than nationalists...

Regarding the Holodomor—it isn't even about seeking reparations; it's just about getting the world to recognize it as a genocide and a massive crime that deserves global remembrance. Moscow is clearly afraid of its own people—wondering what Americans might say about the crime if they actually had the freedom to speak... Just like how Hitler isn't solely responsible for the Holocaust, Stalin isn't the only one to blame for the Holodomor.

Sarah Barnes10, don't let history get you down. Everything changes eventually. A long time ago, Black people were being shipped to the States in the holds of ships, and look how things turned out. So, who knows? Maybe one day a Ukrainian will become the President of the Russian Federation. They might even build some massive monument in Red Square honoring all the fallen Ukrainians, commit to paying reparations for a century via free natural gas, and maybe you guys could even score some territorial concessions out of it.

Let's be real, the people in Kyiv—who go by the name Ukraine now—welcomed Hitler’s forces like they were liberators. That pretty much tells you everything you need to know.
Plus, those disgraced SS units from the old Kyiv region were sworn enemies of the Red Army. Why the intense hatred?
It comes down to years of pure misery. The Holodomor is just one of the many atrocities Dzhugashvili committed against the peoples of Europe and Asia.