Wage garnishments and collections

Well, I'm fairly certain those kinds of contracts can actually be voided in court—though I could be wrong—and if I had to guess, there might even be some elements of criminal activity involved here, too.

mellowheron17 said:Now, what happens if we’re looking at a situation where the "debtor" decides to shuffle their assets over to a family member, and then actually manages to prove they did it specifically to dodge an attachment or a garnishment order?

You should read the law, but if the debtor transferred property before any legal action started, you're probably stuck. Proving someone moved assets just to evade a judgment is a tough hill to climb...
Especially if they transfer stuff to, say, their kid. Not only will no judge void that kind of contract, but you'll end up dealing with Social Services and the Children's Ombudsman if they decide to get aggressive about the child's rights...
Let me explain. I've heard plenty of stories where parents, lured by high interest rates, dipped into their kids' savings. When they tried to withdraw it for what they planned to buy, the Bank of America response was basically: "That's the kid's money; you can't touch it without clearance from the social services agency." And then comes the shocker—you'll only get that clearance if you pull a gun on them... or if you have "connections"... 😉
Regardless, read the law. Read it a few times. You could screw up badly here. You could lose a lawsuit like that easily, and then you're stuck because the debtor can turn around and sue *you* for court costs and legal fees...
So, before you start an enforcement action, weigh your options carefully based on what you're targeting... (usually, people go after liquid cash)...

Since I'm already here...
Question for the smart people since I'm clearly not one of them 🙂.
Enforcement for unpaid child support. Does that skip the line ahead of other judgments, and what percentage of income does it take (assuming there's already an existing garnishment taking a third)? Can someone drop links to the specific part of the law regarding child support enforcement... or just copy-paste it? Everything I find is either outdated or advice from back when Marshall was still around...
Also, what's the statute of limitations for collecting child support? (I found five years, but I need confirmation 😉)

Once I get an answer, I have another question depending on what you tell me.. 😉

Peter Price9 said:So, I’ve got an enforcement order and my account is currently frozen, though I managed to set up a protected account through the FIN, which is a relief. Now I’m just wondering about the logistics of how my employer handles this—can they just dump my entire paycheck straight into that protected account, or does the law require them to split it up, like sending a third to the blocked account and the rest to the protected one? Any insight would be appreciated.

If the garnishment is specifically against cash, your boss could technically pay you in cash (that's legal enough)... but... the collector can expand the garnishment to your wages, so you might only get some peace for a few months...
Advice: Banks issue loans to cover garnishments at the total amount owed... it's smarter to take a loan with 8% interest and pay it off slowly rather than having a frozen account and getting crushed by 14.5% interest...

So, I just got hit with an enforcement order from a notary dated March 26, 2008, all because of some old debt with AT&T from back in 2007. The letter is demanding payment, but get this—they don't mention a deadline to pay, nor do they give me a window to file an appeal. It’s 2013 now... am I allowed to fight this based on the statute of limitations for the debt itself, or maybe even the statute of limitations for the enforcement order?
EDIT: Turns out the letter is actually from a law firm that just slapped a notary's heading under their own logo.

hiddendriver34 said:So, I just got hit with an enforcement order from a notary dated March 26, 2008, all because of some old debt with AT&T from back in 2007. The letter is demanding payment, but get this—they don't mention a deadline to pay, nor do they give me a window to file an appeal. It’s 2013 now... am I allowed to fight this based on the statute of limitations for the debt itself, or maybe even the statute of limitations for the enforcement order?
EDIT: Turns out the letter is actually from a law firm that just slapped a notary's heading under their own logo.

Well, if they haven't taken any action at all during those five years, then it should be past the statute of limitations.

Actually, I don't think so—JB received it back on March 26, 2008, which means that ten-year statute of limitations period has likely been extended

They haven't actually done anything—I mean, I haven't received a single notice or anything like that. But looking at the details in this letter, it seems like PBS started the enforcement process right on schedule back in 2008. From what I can dig up online, once they kick off that kind of legal action, the statute of limitations doesn't apply. Now we're sitting here in 2013, so I'm honestly just scratching my head.

Wait, shouldn't a formal affidavit actually come from a Notary Public instead of some random law firm? And honestly, how is anyone expecting me to just have receipts or bank statements sitting around from six years ago?

hiddendriver34 said:Wait, shouldn't a formal affidavit actually come from a Notary Public instead of some random law firm? And honestly, how is anyone expecting me to just have receipts or bank statements sitting around from six years ago?

I’m dealing with the exact same thing. Only difference is I never even got the ruling. By the time I realized what was happening, the seizure was already done because the ruling became final. Once it’s final, you lose your right to appeal. They just snatch the money straight from your checking account and leave you sitting there crying about it.

Once they finished the seizure, I went to the Federal Reserve to grab a copy of the ruling just to see what the hell was going on. Basically, the law firm representing the creditor sends the notice, and it's supposed to include the actual notary's seizure order. That document is meant to tell you to either pay up or appeal within eight days...
Those papers are supposed to list the specific account numbers being claimed. But an account number alone is useless. You can't actually access any data from that account based on just a number to figure out if the bill is legitimate or if they messed up. When I reached out to my cell provider regarding a bill from January 2012, they told me they had nothing. Apparently, they wipe everything older than a year. They couldn't even explain how they'd prove anything if I sued them to get my seized funds back—how are they supposed to show the usage on my line that triggered that disputed bill?

Bottom line: you aren't getting a single shred of info about the debt from the service provider because, according to them, it doesn't exist in their system anymore. Their lawyers will give you information in tiny, pathetic droplets, but they won't help you at all since you're their target, not their client. Your best bet is asking the Federal Reserve for a ledger, which will cost you about $6.25/page. You might get a few more details, but even then, you won't really know if you have a leg to stand on or not...

Basically, you're screwed unless the notary made a massive procedural error...

I’d love to be wrong here. Someone please correct me...

Daniel Martinez9 said:If the garnishment is specifically against cash, your boss could technically pay you in cash (that's legal enough)... but... the collector can expand the garnishment to your wages, so you might only get some peace for a few months...
Advice: Banks issue loans to cover garnishments at the total amount owed... it's smarter to take a loan with 8% interest and pay it off slowly rather than having a frozen account and getting crushed by 14.5% interest...

do banks actually give out loans equal to the garnishment amount to workers who aren't full-time employees and are just working on contract

Peter Price9 said:do banks actually give out loans equal to the garnishment amount to workers who aren't full-time employees and are just working on contract

Look, Bank of America will throw money at you if they think they can actually get paid back... theoretically, you could have a one-year contract and pull a six-month loan out of it... but honestly, getting anything longer than the actual contract term is a massive uphill battle... easiest thing to do is just walk into a branch and ask...

Daniel Martinez9 said:You should read the law, but if the debtor transferred property before any legal action started, you're probably stuck. Proving someone moved assets just to evade a judgment is a tough hill to climb...
Especially if they transfer stuff to, say, their kid. Not only will no judge void that kind of contract, but you'll end up dealing with Social Services and the Children's Ombudsman if they decide to get aggressive about the child's rights...
Let me explain. I've heard plenty of stories where parents, lured by high interest rates, dipped into their kids' savings. When they tried to withdraw it for what they planned to buy, the Bank of America response was basically: "That's the kid's money; you can't touch it without clearance from the social services agency." And then comes the shocker—you'll only get that clearance if you pull a gun on them... or if you have "connections"... 😉
Regardless, read the law. Read it a few times. You could screw up badly here. You could lose a lawsuit like that easily, and then you're stuck because the debtor can turn around and sue *you* for court costs and legal fees...
So, before you start an enforcement action, weigh your options carefully based on what you're targeting... (usually, people go after liquid cash)...

Since I'm already here...
Question for the smart people since I'm clearly not one of them 🙂.
Enforcement for unpaid child support. Does that skip the line ahead of other judgments, and what percentage of income does it take (assuming there's already an existing garnishment taking a third)? Can someone drop links to the specific part of the law regarding child support enforcement... or just copy-paste it? Everything I find is either outdated or advice from back when Marshall was still around...
Also, what's the statute of limitations for collecting child support? (I found five years, but I need confirmation 😉)

Once I get an answer, I have another question depending on what you tell me.. 😉

Family Law section 232a basically states that support payments take priority over all other types of garnishments...
And then under the Enforcement Act, article 173, it covers which portion of your income can be seized through that process...

As for the Child Support Agency statute of limitations... I'm not entirely sure... but if they've already started formal collection proceedings for it, then the standard ten-year limit kicks in...

Daniel Martinez9 said:If the garnishment is specifically against cash, your boss could technically pay you in cash (that's legal enough)... but... the collector can expand the garnishment to your wages, so you might only get some peace for a few months...
Advice: Banks issue loans to cover garnishments at the total amount owed... it's smarter to take a loan with 8% interest and pay it off slowly rather than having a frozen account and getting crushed by 14.5% interest...

That "cash in hand" thing? It’s over. New income tax regulations kicked in back on July 5th.
Your salary has to hit your checking account now. The only things they might still hand you in cash are non-taxable stuff, like per diems or travel reimbursements. But that net pay? It has to go straight to the bank. No exceptions.

Jesse Mendoza60 said:Look, Bank of America will throw money at you if they think they can actually get paid back... theoretically, you could have a one-year contract and pull a six-month loan out of it... but honestly, getting anything longer than the actual contract term is a massive uphill battle... easiest thing to do is just walk into a branch and ask...

Family Law section 232a basically states that support payments take priority over all other types of garnishments...
And then under the Enforcement Act, article 173, it covers which portion of your income can be seized through that process...

As for the Child Support Agency statute of limitations... I'm not entirely sure... but if they've already started formal collection proceedings for it, then the standard ten-year limit kicks in...

There is no statute of limitations once enforcement starts... it keeps going until everything is paid off... 😉
Thanks for quoting those laws, but I found them myself and honestly, I had to dig through a mountain of paperwork just to track them down...

Whatever... let's expand this a bit. We're talking about enforcing unpaid child support from before the child reached adulthood. Let's assume the child is now an adult and the claims have technically hit the statute of limitations (meaning 10 years have passed since the last unpaid payment). Now, assume this "adult child" wants to initiate enforcement for those past-due payments. And let's say this "adult child" wants to enforce a final court judgment that became effective, say, 20 years ago...

Logic dictates the kid was only 9 when the District Court issued that FINAL judgment and when the payments were supposed to start. Common sense says that "kid" isn't a kid anymore—they're a 29-year-old adult.

Furthermore, obviously, if someone raises the statute of limitations defense, the enforcement fails. I don't CARE about that part—I hope I was clear, because it’s the first answer I’ve gotten from any lawyer, and frankly, I DON'T CARE...

What I want to know is: does that enforcement (now by an adult) for unpaid support fall under those high-priority claims that jump to the front of the line and skip all existing garnishments?

It's a simple question, yet NOBODY seems to have a clue how to answer it... 😉

One more thing that blew my mind regarding lawyers (specifically their ignorance): a judge only looks at the statute of limitations if a party actually invokes it. I've seen countless cases involving mobile carrier debts that were 100% expired, but unless someone points it out, the judge only rules on what's currently "on the table."

Daniel Martinez9, I think we’ve gone over this at least sixteen times now—but let me say it again clearly: child support claims take absolute precedence, and in your specific situation, they definitely come first! Furthermore, people often misunderstand how statutes of limitations work regarding mobile carrier debts—it’s rarely as simple as you think. Usually, the clock isn't just about when the customer was billed, but rather when the notary officially received the documents. So, even if there's a one-year limit, it could potentially stretch to five years if the notary processed it back in 2007... it's still valid. Most laypeople, myself included sometimes, tend to overlook those nuances. Anyway, here is another bit of free advice for you... though, honestly, maybe you should just head to a lawyer? You'll quickly realize they actually charge a set fee for legal consultations!

hiddendriver34 said:Wait, shouldn't a formal affidavit actually come from a Notary Public instead of some random law firm? And honestly, how is anyone expecting me to just have receipts or bank statements sitting around from six years ago?

I keep mine for 10 years. Bad experiences, what can I say.

First off, you need to figure out what you actually received—a formal notice or an enforcement order. There is a massive difference between the two.

Bottom line: get a decent lawyer.
Make sure to bring a tax clearance certificate (not older than 6 months) if you aren't already registered as a taxpayer. That way, your lawyer can waive the court costs for any potential objection.

Also, the deadline for an appeal should be written on the back where the enforcement order was stamped (if there's no stamp, it's not an enforcement order). It’s usually 7 or 8 days from receipt. It's all right there in the fine print.

Since you got the order on the 26th, 4 days have already passed. Hurry!!!.

And the order has to be sent by a notary or the court. If it lists a law firm, it just means they drafted the proposal for the enforcement.

And if the order was filed when you said it was, then there is no statute of limitations issue. The clock starts ticking the moment the law firm submits the enforcement proposal, which gets recorded in the official court registry with a date stamp on the first page. That is the date that matters for the statute of limitations.
However, there might be a violation regarding the reasonable timeframe for serving you the order. In my opinion, someone is in a bit of trouble there.

In any case, talk to a lawyer. 😉

John Clark6 said:Daniel Martinez9, I think we’ve gone over this at least sixteen times now—but let me say it again clearly: child support claims take absolute precedence, and in your specific situation, they definitely come first! Furthermore, people often misunderstand how statutes of limitations work regarding mobile carrier debts—it’s rarely as simple as you think. Usually, the clock isn't just about when the customer was billed, but rather when the notary officially received the documents. So, even if there's a one-year limit, it could potentially stretch to five years if the notary processed it back in 2007... it's still valid. Most laypeople, myself included sometimes, tend to overlook those nuances. Anyway, here is another bit of free advice for you... though, honestly, maybe you should just head to a lawyer? You'll quickly realize they actually charge a set fee for legal consultations!

Look, here's how it is...
There's really no need for insults.

First off, thanks for the info. Why did I post on this forum? Because those lawyers of yours who charge by the book for advice have wildly different opinions on this matter, and I've already cited one of them.
Actually, to those who tell me the exact same thing you do, I have a suggestion. They can stay the enforcement, and I won't have an issue paying their standard fee (if $3.25 whatever, no biggie boss), provided we draft a valid contract stating that the lawyer won't object to me collecting the debt from them in whatever way I find most advantageous if they screw up the enforcement, or if what they claim (like the part about enforcement taking priority) turns out to be false.
Basically, I pay my share, but I demand a guarantee for the work performed.
After I lay out my terms, the lawyers just stare at me like I'm crazy... one even asked if I thought he was stupid... and when he explained himself, the guy was so polite you'd think he was your best friend...
It seems fair to me. Nowadays, manufacturers provide a warranty for every product, and every contractor gives a guarantee for labor or services rendered, right?

So, are you still sticking to that opinion you gave?

Regarding the statute of limitations, the legal provision is perfectly clear: the timeline is measured until the date the claim is requested via enforcement, not when the decision is issued. In fact, plenty of people don't understand how things work regarding those one-year statutes. It’s mostly companies that issue invoices where the service provider notifies the client of the debt via a line item like "Debt as of XX.XX.XXXX." That entry is considered credible, and the one-year statute should restart from there. But companies don't gamble with that; they file for enforcement right on time.
And yeah, there is a massive pile of court rulings that overturned enforcements due to the statute of limitations.

Daniel Martinez9 said:I keep mine for 10 years. Bad experiences, what can I say.

First off, you need to figure out what you actually received—a formal notice or an enforcement order. There is a massive difference between the two.

Bottom line: get a decent lawyer.
Make sure to bring a tax clearance certificate (not older than 6 months) if you aren't already registered as a taxpayer. That way, your lawyer can waive the court costs for any potential objection.

Also, the deadline for an appeal should be written on the back where the enforcement order was stamped (if there's no stamp, it's not an enforcement order). It’s usually 7 or 8 days from receipt. It's all right there in the fine print.

Since you got the order on the 26th, 4 days have already passed. Hurry!!!.

And the order has to be sent by a notary or the court. If it lists a law firm, it just means they drafted the proposal for the enforcement.

And if the order was filed when you said it was, then there is no statute of limitations issue. The clock starts ticking the moment the law firm submits the enforcement proposal, which gets recorded in the official court registry with a date stamp on the first page. That is the date that matters for the statute of limitations.
However, there might be a violation regarding the reasonable timeframe for serving you the order. In my opinion, someone is in a bit of trouble there.

In any case, talk to a lawyer. 😉

Thanks for the info. I'm just not sure if hiring a lawyer is worth it, especially if it ends up driving up the total amount I owe (it's sitting around $500 altogether) once you factor in their fees. I am absolutely livid 😠 because I've been backed into this corner without any way to prove my side of the story on my own.

hiddendriver34 said:Thanks for the info. I'm just not sure if hiring a lawyer is worth it, especially if it ends up driving up the total amount I owe (it's sitting around $500 altogether) once you factor in their fees. I am absolutely livid 😠 because I've been backed into this corner without any way to prove my side of the story on my own.

Anyway, Google this a bit:

It’s recommended to contest attorney and notary fees, because in many cases they are excessive and unjustified!

Also, since 5.5 years passed between the filing of the seizure and when you were served the decision, contact the Consumer Union and the Notary Association. Cite a reasonable timeframe for issuing a seizure decision and ask them for advice on how to proceed.

In any case, I suggest paying the amount (assuming you actually owe it) before Friday, minus the portion of the notary costs (finality clauses and such). You can get the exact breakdown from the Consumer Union.
Do I need to do all this for you? (Hope you caught the sarcasm)
If you don't care about being ripped off, that's on you, but don't come crying later claiming everyone else is at fault but yourself.

I could really use some help here.
We dealt with a garnishment from $2167 (it was regarding unpaid PBS subscription fees followed by an enforcement process), which we fully settled back on June 4, 2013. Just two days ago, we requested a full transaction history for our checking account covering the last two years. According to those statements, the total amount listed under 'forced collection via order' comes to $3300, which means they've taken $1133 more than what the actual garnishment required.
Does anyone have any idea where this discrepancy might be coming from? I'm wondering if it's just accumulated interest or something else entirely. Thanks in advance for any insight you can share.

The Federal Reserve keeps all the records on how those garnishments actually went down. You should go ahead and request an official confirmation from the Federal Reserve.
Once you get that, you’ll see the exact breakdown—exactly how much was principal, how much was interest, and all that other junk.
They do charge a fee for that paperwork, though I can't tell you the exact price off the top of my head.