Top or loser?

Since we're heading toward the end of the season, the inevitable debates about who’s a loser and who’s actually a top manager are going to kick off, so let's just get ahead of it...
Given how many wild opinions float around this forum, maybe we should actually settle on some basic criteria for judging managers.

Is Klopp a loser if he gets knocked out by Los Angeles with Liverpool and fails to grab the league title? Or is he a top manager because, over two seasons with Liverpool, he made it to the LP final and the LP semifinals, all while battling teams twice their size for the championship this season with only one loss... Or, say he wins the Premier League but chokes in the LP final, does he immediately become a loser for failing in finals?

Is Guardiola a top manager because he won the Premier League with Man City, even if they fell in the LP quarterfinals?

Who's the superior coach: Valverde winning a Treble with Los Angeles, or someone like Pochettino keeping Tottenham at the top of the Premier League and potentially making an LP final?

Basically, is Pep better for grabbing a title with Man City, or is Poch better for leading Tottenham to an LP final?

So, who is currently a top manager and who is a loser in your eyes, and more importantly, what are your actual metrics?

I think they're all pretty talented coaches. I guess Klopp will never be a loser, because he really took Liverpool to a whole new level compared to whoever came before him.

Look, I'm not calling Pep or Klopp losers just because things aren't going their way right now—that's ridiculous. We're talking about managers whose teams play the most elite football out there. These guys actually develop players and stick to a clear vision for how they want to play...

When I look at Liverpool over the last 10 years versus where we are right now, the progress is massive. We’re back on the map in America, and honestly, I believe no top club wants to see us coming on their schedule.
With a little bit of luck (not that we aren't getting some love, but fortune favors the bold!), we could walk away with both trophies. On the flip side, one bad break and we’re empty-handed. It really comes down to the tiny details.
I'm just stoked that Klopp raised the entire vibe inside and around the club to a whole new positive level. He’s exactly the kind of guy we need, so even if we miss out on a trophy, there is no way I'm calling him a loser.

As for what anyone else thinks? I couldn't care less.

If you hire a coach to steady the ship and get things back on track, and he actually pulls it off—even if the trophy cabinet doesn't get much fuller—he clearly isn't a loser.

But if you bring someone in specifically to win everything (especially when the LP is the main goal), and instead of delivering, they just keep embarrassing themselves more with every passing season? That’s a total loser.

Over the last decade, the bar for managers has gone absolutely insane. Nowadays, if you aren't lifting the LP trophy, people basically write you off as a total loser. It’s ridiculous, considering there's only one winner per year anyway.

Even when someone actually pulls off an LP win, people love to claim it was just pure luck or some fluke.

Luis Enrique has bagged an LP title and a bunch of other trophies, but let’s be real: nobody considers him a great manager, and they never will. Everyone is just going to claim he was riding the coattails of Messi and Iniesta.

Everyone keeps making fun of Valverde—calling him the "ant" and all that—but honestly, this guy might actually pull off the Treble.

Pochettino is a total loser, yet he managed to drag Tottenham up the ladder despite working with a shoestring budget.

Klopp is a total loser, but he actually managed to drag Liverpool back to a level where they aren't just praying for an LP spot, but are legit fighting for the title.

Guardiola is basically a one-trick pony who won't stop forcing that Tiki-taka style, but you can't deny he actually leveled up Man City.

Simeone is just a limited loser who can't actually win anything, even if he did turn Atletico into a top club.

About a decade ago, managers actually meant something. You had guys like Pochettino or Simeone coming in and genuinely elevating their clubs to a whole new level. Now? It feels different.

Look, my old man set the bar incredibly high.

analogorca6 said:Over the last decade, the bar for managers has gone absolutely insane. Nowadays, if you aren't lifting the LP trophy, people basically write you off as a total loser. It’s ridiculous, considering there's only one winner per year anyway.

Even when someone actually pulls off an LP win, people love to claim it was just pure luck or some fluke.

Luis Enrique has bagged an LP title and a bunch of other trophies, but let’s be real: nobody considers him a great manager, and they never will. Everyone is just going to claim he was riding the coattails of Messi and Iniesta.

Everyone keeps making fun of Valverde—calling him the "ant" and all that—but honestly, this guy might actually pull off the Treble.

Pochettino is a total loser, yet he managed to drag Tottenham up the ladder despite working with a shoestring budget.

Klopp is a total loser, but he actually managed to drag Liverpool back to a level where they aren't just praying for an LP spot, but are legit fighting for the title.

Guardiola is basically a one-trick pony who won't stop forcing that Tiki-taka style, but you can't deny he actually leveled up Man City.

Simeone is just a limited loser who can't actually win anything, even if he did turn Atletico into a top club.

About a decade ago, managers actually meant something. You had guys like Pochettino or Simeone coming in and genuinely elevating their clubs to a whole new level. Now? It feels different.

I can't say anything else besides I agree.

It’s easy to joke about it, but most people on this forum seem dead serious when they belittle these top managers.

Everyone is a fraud sooner or later.

when we’re talking about losers, you can't ignore Marcel Bielsa... he’s basically spent his whole career failing, yet somehow everyone still acts like he’s some kind of genius

Ashley Bailey6 said:I can't say anything else besides I agree.

It’s easy to joke about it, but most people on this forum seem dead serious when they belittle these top managers.

Everyone is a fraud sooner or later.

Just saying, this whole nonsense isn't even specific to the soccer threads—it's happening all over this entire board.

If we're talking about the ultimate Flopp in modern soccer, it’s definitely Niko Kovač. It’s almost funny how he barely avoids relegation, then somehow manages to win a cup with Eintracht, uses his connection to Brazzo to land a gig at Bayern, and now might even pull off a double with them (yeah, right—he won't touch that kind of glory, Jupp snatched that up last year without breaking a sweat). 🤦 And don't even get me started on how people push these total washouts like Rebić. Or digging up some random nobody like that Luka Jović kid from the Benfica bench. It's pathetic.