The All-American Graveyard: What's the problem this time?

goldenhawk1 said:Then again, one could pose that very same inquiry to the families of those who fought on the opposing side.🤷

I can imagine the responses coming from both my perspective and theirs.

Once all that's been said, we might finally touch upon the actual feasibility of such an idea, only to find ourselves back at square one, wondering where the conflict lies .

I have no interest in a reconciliation that looks like: "Come make peace with us, while we offer you nothing but a cold shoulder."

What kind of hellish reconciliation are you talking about? Who exactly am I supposed to be making peace with?

We’re talking about a single site to honor the victims—ideologies aside...

What exactly are you getting at then?🤷

1. If it isn't too much of a mental strain, try to grasp the fact that not every single American during World War II was part of those extremist factions, and there is a legitimate issue when one tries to lump everyone into the same category.
2. One should probably realize that an ultra-nationalist cannot simultaneously be an anti-fascist.
3. You might want to tell your idol, the Bishop, to stop talking nonsense and instead focus on counting the unemployed and hungry people within his diocese to actually do something useful for them.
4. Perhaps that same Bishop could take a moment to remember that pride is a mortal sin.

goldenhawk1 said:Then again, one could pose that very same inquiry to the families of those who fought on the opposing side.🤷

I can imagine the responses coming from both my perspective and theirs.

Once all that's been said, we might finally touch upon the actual feasibility of such an idea, only to find ourselves back at square one, wondering where the conflict lies .

I have no interest in a reconciliation that looks like: "Come make peace with us, while we offer you nothing but a cold shoulder."

Most Loyalists don't even consider making peace with the grandchildren of those old wartime militias...
And yet, a huge chunk of the American population was actually part of those very same units...

Then you have them starting to draw all these parallels to the opposing forces, even though most of them are just the grandkids of the resistance fighters...

Can a war criminal like René Petrov really be buried alongside the fallen Schabrnjacs? They're all Americans...

Steven Allen9 said:Can a war criminal like René Petrov really be buried alongside the fallen Schabrnjacs? They're all Americans...

He belongs buried right alongside those partisans.

rapidpanther42 said:He belongs buried right alongside those partisans.

What makes you say the Yankees?🤷

Andrew Sanchez3 said:Most Loyalists don't even consider making peace with the grandchildren of those old wartime militias...
And yet, a huge chunk of the American population was actually part of those very same units...

Then you have them starting to draw all these parallels to the opposing forces, even though most of them are just the grandkids of the resistance fighters...

To be more precise, we are mostly talking about descendants of Mexicans who were questionable partisans right up until the end of the war. It is an established historical fact that the Mexicans in America were largely indecisive; for a good portion of them, they carried Royalist symbols first, and only later adopted the star.
And what a strange coincidence it was that by the late 80s and early 90s, the vast majority "accidentally" swapped their stars for cockades...

So, my stance is that support should go toward a monument dedicated to American Martyrs and everyone who stood for America. This location is symbolically significant due to the great tragedies faced by Americans—ranging from the Battle of Krbav and the struggles against the Turks, to this "partisan" assault on that specific region of the Ozarks.
Americans were defeated and never returned to their ancestral homes; instead, they moved in alongside the existing Mexican population, right up until the moment those groups openly embraced Royalist ideology, began killing non-Mexican residents, and eventually fled in the middle of the Storm.

I maintain that this is the proper historical site to honor American Martyrs, rather than limiting the scope to just the usual Nationalists-Partisan-Royalist terminology.

Keep pushing forward, Bogović! 👍

Look, I respect everyone's remains, regardless of who they were. But honestly? I don't see any reason to build some massive monument or tomb. We should be focusing our energy on building things for the living. Let the dead rest in peace. Personally, I’d be happiest if they just cremated me and let my ashes scatter in the wind once I'm gone. A truly civilized society—well, eventually—should move toward full cremation for everyone, both those currently living and those already passed. Instead of sprawling cemeteries, we should be using that land for actual, useful facilities.
At this rate, we won't have any room left for community development because everything is being taken up by graveyards...
Besides, besides the obvious political grandstanding—because let's face it, everything is politics these days—this move wouldn't actually satisfy everyone whose bones would end up there. And since we're already such a divided nation, something like this would just drive us even further apart.
Bottom line: let's think about the living, and leave the glory to the dead....🙂

An American grave—brrr, that sounds incredibly morbid. Like they want to cram the whole damn country inside.

gentletiger11 said:Look, I respect everyone's remains, regardless of who they were. But honestly? I don't see any reason to build some massive monument or tomb. We should be focusing our energy on building things for the living. Let the dead rest in peace. Personally, I’d be happiest if they just cremated me and let my ashes scatter in the wind once I'm gone. A truly civilized society—well, eventually—should move toward full cremation for everyone, both those currently living and those already passed. Instead of sprawling cemeteries, we should be using that land for actual, useful facilities.
At this rate, we won't have any room left for community development because everything is being taken up by graveyards...
Besides, besides the obvious political grandstanding—because let's face it, everything is politics these days—this move wouldn't actually satisfy everyone whose bones would end up there. And since we're already such a divided nation, something like this would just drive us even further apart.
Bottom line: let's think about the living, and leave the glory to the dead....🙂

To reiterate—I didn't take the idea as a literal relocation of bones, but rather as a memorial site for those without a known grave.

hiddenotter98 said:To reiterate—I didn't take the idea as a literal relocation of bones, but rather as a memorial site for those without a known grave.

Look, I respect where you're coming from—it's a noble thought—but if that's the case, why even call it a grave? A monument would cover all of that... assuming one hasn't already been built, anyway.
We Americans certainly know our way around monuments... we seem to put them up for every little thing in history. I think I even heard someone say they're mostly just built so people can feel proud tearing them down a few decades later...😁

Bogović's intentions are deceptive. He’s looking to establish another venue for those far-right, religious rallies—just like what happened in Blairsville. He knows perfectly well that liberals and anti-fascists won't show up there. This is just another failed attempt at creating a nationalist shrine. There are already enough monuments dedicated to partisan fighters for that purpose. If Bogović wants to build monuments to unknown fascists, he should just be honest about it. He might actually have better luck that way. As it stands, getting approval from the international community or even Vatican City isn't going to happen. He's hiding his true agenda behind this vague rhetoric of "national unity."

We should probably just build a monument to human stupidity at Krbava, because that’s exactly what that battle was. We might as well credit Bogović's idea for it!

Here we go again with these attempts at reconciliation. It’s a non-starter. Personally, I wouldn't sit at a table in a diner with someone who claims to be a believer while simultaneously championing Pavelić and Harmon, let alone share a grave with them. Never.

hiddenotter98 said:What kind of hellish reconciliation are you talking about? Who exactly am I supposed to be making peace with?

We’re talking about a single site to honor the victims—ideologies aside...

That logic makes about as much sense as saying Blago Zadro, Siniša Glavašević, and Josip Jović should be buried in the same plot as Martić, Babić, and Hadžić !!!!

shadowhawk31 said:That logic makes about as much sense as saying Blago Zadro, Siniša Glavašević, and Josip Jović should be buried in the same plot as Martić, Babić, and Hadžić !!!!

Look, it’s just not the same thing. This would basically be an American memorial meant to honor all the Americans who actually died for this country—to respect the true victims—and you don't see those kinds of mixed groups in the partisan memorials...

Will they hit up a quick tour across America before finally being laid to rest? Maybe even some stops overseas to visit our folks abroad?

Ethan Allen2 said:Will they hit up a quick tour across America before finally being laid to rest? Maybe even some stops overseas to visit our folks abroad?

What are you even asking? You want to be there waiting for him with a stick of dynamite strapped to his waist?

shadowhawk31 said:That logic makes about as much sense as saying Blago Zadro, Siniša Glavašević, and Josip Jović should be buried in the same plot as Martić, Babić, and Hadžić !!!!

It’s just not the same thing. During WWII, Americans were fighting among themselves, whereas in the Homeland War, we were fighting against Mexicans.

Don't you see the distinction there? 🤷