Why do some people need so much money?

I’m posting this here in the spirituality section, too, since I’m not really sure where it fits best... 😉

"Every single day, you open the papers and see more scandals involving millions of dollars in fraud. It seems people will go to any lengths to get rich—stealing, killing, cheating, just committing any kind of crime imaginable...

What's interesting is that almost all these dishonest schemes are pulled off by people who don't actually need the money to survive. We aren't talking about someone on the brink of starvation or someone who can't afford basic clothes and is struggling to stay alive. It's usually the middle class or the wealthy elite—people who have plenty, but simply never have enough. So much for that idea that greed is driven by necessity...

Sometimes these folks have so much wealth that three generations of their descendants couldn't spend it all, yet they still pull dirty stunts just to stack up even more.

There's something deeply tragic about money, isn't there? How it manages to ruin so many lives..."

The more capital you pile up, the more power you wield. It’s far more potent than just having a little bit of expertise on the level of 🙄
And those wealthy types—not that I’d go so far as to call them scumbags—they don't really have a sense of moderation... once that obsession takes hold, it doesn't just stop easily...

Andrew Sullivan8 said:I’m posting this here in the spirituality section, too, since I’m not really sure where it fits best... 😉

"Every single day, you open the papers and see more scandals involving millions of dollars in fraud. It seems people will go to any lengths to get rich—stealing, killing, cheating, just committing any kind of crime imaginable...

What's interesting is that almost all these dishonest schemes are pulled off by people who don't actually need the money to survive. We aren't talking about someone on the brink of starvation or someone who can't afford basic clothes and is struggling to stay alive. It's usually the middle class or the wealthy elite—people who have plenty, but simply never have enough. So much for that idea that greed is driven by necessity...

Sometimes these folks have so much wealth that three generations of their descendants couldn't spend it all, yet they still pull dirty stunts just to stack up even more.

There's something deeply tragic about money, isn't there? How it manages to ruin so many lives..."

Honestly, that question feels a little naive. We all know money buys basically everything—or at least most things—and everyone wants to live a comfortable life. 🤷 Let's face it: pretty much everything we do is driven by the almighty dollar. We grind through school just to land a better paycheck, we work ourselves to the bone for a salary... the whole world basically revolves around cash.

Andrew Sullivan8, you actually got any cash on you?

Andrew Sullivan8 said:I’m posting this here in the spirituality section, too, since I’m not really sure where it fits best... 😉

"Every single day, you open the papers and see more scandals involving millions of dollars in fraud. It seems people will go to any lengths to get rich—stealing, killing, cheating, just committing any kind of crime imaginable...

What's interesting is that almost all these dishonest schemes are pulled off by people who don't actually need the money to survive. We aren't talking about someone on the brink of starvation or someone who can't afford basic clothes and is struggling to stay alive. It's usually the middle class or the wealthy elite—people who have plenty, but simply never have enough. So much for that idea that greed is driven by necessity...

Sometimes these folks have so much wealth that three generations of their descendants couldn't spend it all, yet they still pull dirty stunts just to stack up even more.

There's something deeply tragic about money, isn't there? How it manages to ruin so many lives..."

So what’s the move for people who’ve already made it? Are you saying they should just retire from making money altogether and focus entirely on spending it?🤷
I think it's just human nature to always want to push forward, to aim for more, to find that better opportunity or land a bigger paycheck... I don't see anything strange about that at all.
Money isn't the tragedy here, it's just a necessity of life...😉

Wait, are we seriously doing this twice?

Edward Murphy4 said:Honestly, that question feels a little naive. We all know money buys basically everything—or at least most things—and everyone wants to live a comfortable life. 🤷 Let's face it: pretty much everything we do is driven by the almighty dollar. We grind through school just to land a better paycheck, we work ourselves to the bone for a salary... the whole world basically revolves around cash.

It’s not a dumb question.

What can you actually buy with $100 million that you couldn't with $20 million? What's driving someone to keep cheating, stealing, and exploiting others just to chase that extra $80 million?

If you read people's posts with a bit more empathy, you won't think they're stupid...

Paul Campbell3 said:Andrew Sullivan8, you actually got any cash on you?

I do. A little more than I really need. Though, "enough" is a subjective thing. To some people, it wouldn't be enough, and to others, it'd be way too much... ☕

Looks like most people missed the whole point of this thread...

The topic is about how people who already have massive wealth—money they could never actually spend (just look at those political scandals in the papers I mentioned earlier)—are willing to sacrifice moral values just to pile up even more money they'll never touch.

Andrew Sullivan8 said:I’m posting this here in the spirituality section, too, since I’m not really sure where it fits best... 😉

"Every single day, you open the papers and see more scandals involving millions of dollars in fraud. It seems people will go to any lengths to get rich—stealing, killing, cheating, just committing any kind of crime imaginable...

What's interesting is that almost all these dishonest schemes are pulled off by people who don't actually need the money to survive. We aren't talking about someone on the brink of starvation or someone who can't afford basic clothes and is struggling to stay alive. It's usually the middle class or the wealthy elite—people who have plenty, but simply never have enough. So much for that idea that greed is driven by necessity...

Sometimes these folks have so much wealth that three generations of their descendants couldn't spend it all, yet they still pull dirty stunts just to stack up even more.

There's something deeply tragic about money, isn't there? How it manages to ruin so many lives..."

Human stupidity coupled with pathological greed. It is essentially a psychological disorder, yet our capitalist society chooses to celebrate it as if it were a virtue...

Andrew Sullivan8 said:I’m posting this here in the spirituality section, too, since I’m not really sure where it fits best... 😉

"Every single day, you open the papers and see more scandals involving millions of dollars in fraud. It seems people will go to any lengths to get rich—stealing, killing, cheating, just committing any kind of crime imaginable...

What's interesting is that almost all these dishonest schemes are pulled off by people who don't actually need the money to survive. We aren't talking about someone on the brink of starvation or someone who can't afford basic clothes and is struggling to stay alive. It's usually the middle class or the wealthy elite—people who have plenty, but simply never have enough. So much for that idea that greed is driven by necessity...

Sometimes these folks have so much wealth that three generations of their descendants couldn't spend it all, yet they still pull dirty stunts just to stack up even more.

There's something deeply tragic about money, isn't there? How it manages to ruin so many lives..."

opportunity makes the thief

The wealthy steal simply because they have the means. And honestly, it's pure greed, just like our colleague above pointed out. (I suppose it would be a bit of a stretch to generalize and say the poor are more honest than the rich or vice versa, so I'll leave that alone—just lying somewhere else, I guess.)

I think the real point is that being poor often means being deprived of more than just cash; it's social and systemic too. Poverty is essentially a lack of opportunity.

Maybe if they actually had the same opportunities, they’d steal just as much as the wealthy figures you mentioned.
But the reality is that it's quite difficult to even get into a position where you could steal on that kind of scale.
(Perhaps they might swipe something small within their own social circles, maybe.

What seems much more tragic to me, though, is that poor people and their children are deprived of much better kinds of "opportunities" than the ones involving theft: there's just too little access to quality education, culture, sports, healthcare, or any real chance for personal growth and development...

Having an opportunity doesn't turn someone into a thief. I mean, let's be real—we all have the chance to cheat or cut corners, but most people just don't. They choose not to.
...What is it, though? What actually drives people to spend their entire lives chasing a paycheck while stepping over everyone else to get it?
...It isn't even really about the cash itself; it’s this weird obsession with the race. It’s like those people who collect cheap napkins or old postage stamps, just for the sake of having them.
...They collect just to possess everything. Then they want to have more than the next guy. And then comes the paranoia—that nagging fear that someone might overtake you, leaving you no longer the one sitting on the biggest pile of stuff.
...Eventually, you stop being *you*. You just become a reflection of what you own and how much you've accumulated. The goal becomes having the absolute most. The most in your neighborhood, the most in your city, the most in the whole country, or even the whole world.
...You end up defining yourself as "the person who has" rather than "the person who doesn't." You basically strip away your soul and reduce your entire existence to a simple binary: have or have-not. Nothing else matters. That's all you are.
...Everything else in my life just ends up being a byproduct of that endless cycle of having and not having.

Andrew Barrett4 said:opportunity makes the thief

The wealthy steal simply because they have the means. And honestly, it's pure greed, just like our colleague above pointed out. (I suppose it would be a bit of a stretch to generalize and say the poor are more honest than the rich or vice versa, so I'll leave that alone—just lying somewhere else, I guess.)

I think the real point is that being poor often means being deprived of more than just cash; it's social and systemic too. Poverty is essentially a lack of opportunity.

Maybe if they actually had the same opportunities, they’d steal just as much as the wealthy figures you mentioned.
But the reality is that it's quite difficult to even get into a position where you could steal on that kind of scale.
(Perhaps they might swipe something small within their own social circles, maybe.

What seems much more tragic to me, though, is that poor people and their children are deprived of much better kinds of "opportunities" than the ones involving theft: there's just too little access to quality education, culture, sports, healthcare, or any real chance for personal growth and development...

In my estimation, vast material wealth is most often amassed through pathological greed, which makes finding an honest person among the elite an exceedingly rare occurrence. As for those living in poverty, well, you certainly find every conceivable variety of character there...

Andrew Sullivan8 said:I’m posting this here in the spirituality section, too, since I’m not really sure where it fits best... 😉

"Every single day, you open the papers and see more scandals involving millions of dollars in fraud. It seems people will go to any lengths to get rich—stealing, killing, cheating, just committing any kind of crime imaginable...

What's interesting is that almost all these dishonest schemes are pulled off by people who don't actually need the money to survive. We aren't talking about someone on the brink of starvation or someone who can't afford basic clothes and is struggling to stay alive. It's usually the middle class or the wealthy elite—people who have plenty, but simply never have enough. So much for that idea that greed is driven by necessity...

Sometimes these folks have so much wealth that three generations of their descendants couldn't spend it all, yet they still pull dirty stunts just to stack up even more.

There's something deeply tragic about money, isn't there? How it manages to ruin so many lives..."

The answer to what you're asking is just one word: FEAR.

People are terrified of starving. You wouldn't believe it.

Rebecca Scott3 said:Having an opportunity doesn't turn someone into a thief. I mean, let's be real—we all have the chance to cheat or cut corners, but most people just don't. They choose not to.
...What is it, though? What actually drives people to spend their entire lives chasing a paycheck while stepping over everyone else to get it?
...It isn't even really about the cash itself; it’s this weird obsession with the race. It’s like those people who collect cheap napkins or old postage stamps, just for the sake of having them.
...They collect just to possess everything. Then they want to have more than the next guy. And then comes the paranoia—that nagging fear that someone might overtake you, leaving you no longer the one sitting on the biggest pile of stuff.
...Eventually, you stop being *you*. You just become a reflection of what you own and how much you've accumulated. The goal becomes having the absolute most. The most in your neighborhood, the most in your city, the most in the whole country, or even the whole world.
...You end up defining yourself as "the person who has" rather than "the person who doesn't." You basically strip away your soul and reduce your entire existence to a simple binary: have or have-not. Nothing else matters. That's all you are.
...Everything else in my life just ends up being a byproduct of that endless cycle of having and not having.

Well, I find that premise rather questionable. The average American citizen isn't exactly presented with a golden opportunity to embezzle anything worth mentioning without facing immediate, crushing legal consequences. That hardly qualifies as an "opportunity." Real opportunity is what the corporate executives and career politicians enjoy—the chance to walk away with millions while facing little to no accountability whatsoever.

feralranger said:Well, I find that premise rather questionable. The average American citizen isn't exactly presented with a golden opportunity to embezzle anything worth mentioning without facing immediate, crushing legal consequences. That hardly qualifies as an "opportunity." Real opportunity is what the corporate executives and career politicians enjoy—the chance to walk away with millions while facing little to no accountability whatsoever.

For them, it isn't even about finding an opportunity. It's just how the system runs. They don't even have to make a choice to steal. Everything around them is rigged, and those shady "contracts" just land on their desks automatically. It's pure routine. If they actually make a decision, it's usually trying to find a way out of the racket. Most of them are too hooked to leave.

In other words, it’s not like you’re walking past a JP Morgan Chase branch where someone left the vault wide open and you just decide to grab a handful of cash.
It's more like stumbling upon a crew that's been skimming for years. They have the keys. You grab a beer with them, and as you're walking past the bank, you just swing by to snatch a few million. They know every drawer and every corner of that vault like it's their own living room. And you? It feels stupid to say "no" to them now.

Look at this latest mess with Vinko cetinski. That's just how the elite lives. You're either in the circle playing the game, or you're out.

Joseph Myers64 said:For them, it isn't even about finding an opportunity. It's just how the system runs. They don't even have to make a choice to steal. Everything around them is rigged, and those shady "contracts" just land on their desks automatically. It's pure routine. If they actually make a decision, it's usually trying to find a way out of the racket. Most of them are too hooked to leave.

In other words, it’s not like you’re walking past a JP Morgan Chase branch where someone left the vault wide open and you just decide to grab a handful of cash.
It's more like stumbling upon a crew that's been skimming for years. They have the keys. You grab a beer with them, and as you're walking past the bank, you just swing by to snatch a few million. They know every drawer and every corner of that vault like it's their own living room. And you? It feels stupid to say "no" to them now.

Look at this latest mess with Vinko cetinski. That's just how the elite lives. You're either in the circle playing the game, or you're out.

I agree. That is precisely the situation. However, in my view, there is a fundamental lack of decency when a President makes 20 $0.00 while someone like Mudrinić pulls in 80,000. That is exactly why I am not surprised to see certain politicians—nearly all of them, really—shoving their friends or relatives into positions through various "competitive" hiring processes. Honestly, most people would jump at such opportunities if given the chance, but their true corruption doesn't manifest in those appointments themselves; rather, it shows up in the sheer audacity of overcharging—like painting a damn tunnel seven times instead of two, or billing 10 million dollars for a bathroom in a million-dollar facility. That is plain old brazen theft, and it’s what needs to be crushed. These "competitions" for jobs are nothing more than smoke and mirrors; everyone knows who is getting the position before the process even begins. But the real issue is that once they have the job, the work isn't done properly, deadlines are missed, and the invoices are absurdly inflated. If they actually respected the work, we might achieve a standard of living comparable to Switzerland (though, let's be honest, Switzerland has its own ways of doing things too).

dustytinker56 said:I agree. That is precisely the situation. However, in my view, there is a fundamental lack of decency when a President makes 20 $0.00 while someone like Mudrinić pulls in 80,000. That is exactly why I am not surprised to see certain politicians—nearly all of them, really—shoving their friends or relatives into positions through various "competitive" hiring processes. Honestly, most people would jump at such opportunities if given the chance, but their true corruption doesn't manifest in those appointments themselves; rather, it shows up in the sheer audacity of overcharging—like painting a damn tunnel seven times instead of two, or billing 10 million dollars for a bathroom in a million-dollar facility. That is plain old brazen theft, and it’s what needs to be crushed. These "competitions" for jobs are nothing more than smoke and mirrors; everyone knows who is getting the position before the process even begins. But the real issue is that once they have the job, the work isn't done properly, deadlines are missed, and the invoices are absurdly inflated. If they actually respected the work, we might achieve a standard of living comparable to Switzerland (though, let's be honest, Switzerland has its own ways of doing things too).

Well, look at it this way, the President gets paid out of the federal budget, whereas Mudrinić is getting his from a private corporation, so he wouldn't even have that kind of money if his company wasn't turning such a massive profit...😉

dustytinker56 said:I agree. That is precisely the situation. However, in my view, there is a fundamental lack of decency when a President makes 20 $0.00 while someone like Mudrinić pulls in 80,000. That is exactly why I am not surprised to see certain politicians—nearly all of them, really—shoving their friends or relatives into positions through various "competitive" hiring processes. Honestly, most people would jump at such opportunities if given the chance, but their true corruption doesn't manifest in those appointments themselves; rather, it shows up in the sheer audacity of overcharging—like painting a damn tunnel seven times instead of two, or billing 10 million dollars for a bathroom in a million-dollar facility. That is plain old brazen theft, and it’s what needs to be crushed. These "competitions" for jobs are nothing more than smoke and mirrors; everyone knows who is getting the position before the process even begins. But the real issue is that once they have the job, the work isn't done properly, deadlines are missed, and the invoices are absurdly inflated. If they actually respected the work, we might achieve a standard of living comparable to Switzerland (though, let's be honest, Switzerland has its own ways of doing things too).

So how do you explain a place like Chaos Studios? Their manager, Katić, walks out of JP Morgan Chase with two duffel bags full of cash, yet they're charging a measly grand for a commercial.

The answer isn't rocket science: the whole operation is just a front for money laundering.

Andrew Sullivan8 said:I do. A little more than I really need. Though, "enough" is a subjective thing. To some people, it wouldn't be enough, and to others, it'd be way too much... ☕

Looks like most people missed the whole point of this thread...

The topic is about how people who already have massive wealth—money they could never actually spend (just look at those political scandals in the papers I mentioned earlier)—are willing to sacrifice moral values just to pile up even more money they'll never touch.

Well, who’s to say they won't spend it? I suppose the idea is to build an enormous safety net and live in total luxury, or perhaps to gain social influence—money buys power, or at least the illusion of it, and sometimes it truly provides a massive edge over everyone else. Even in primitive societies, it seems people feel a need to hoard certain resources for themselves when they live in environments where sharing is the norm.

Any system built on separating those with more from those with less tends to create a feeling of unfairness. There will always be people who feel cheated, and usually, it’s the same group of people pushing for a fairer distribution—or, more likely, trying to grab those same advantages for themselves. Relatively few people actually want to acquire advantages strictly through honest work or their own merits. Some people just naturally look for the path of least resistance (which, I guess, is just being smart), but when that inclination aligns with conforming to corrupt practices or broken value systems, you end up with outright greed. Most people have ways of adapting to dishonest systems, though I suspect most also have certain lines they simply won't cross.

It’s primarily a question of morality, but I think it’s also a matter of perspective—which, of course, is deeply tied to one's values and education. For instance, you could compare the owner of Deutsche Bank—looking at his pricing policies, how he treats employees, and how much of his stake he leaves to charitable foundations versus what he passes to his kids—against the blatant looting, or more specifically the theft, seen in certain examples from America. Why do people steal or lie? I guess it happens when what they carry in their heads happens to align perfectly with the circumstances they find themselves in. They haven't developed the need to self-reflect, or maybe they just don't have the opportunity. Back when Sanders was leaving office, there were quite a few analyses regarding his psychology—narcissism and such—if you Google it, you'll see how easily those interpretations connect back to your topic.

Andrew Sullivan8 said:I’m posting this here in the spirituality section, too, since I’m not really sure where it fits best... 😉

"Every single day, you open the papers and see more scandals involving millions of dollars in fraud. It seems people will go to any lengths to get rich—stealing, killing, cheating, just committing any kind of crime imaginable...

What's interesting is that almost all these dishonest schemes are pulled off by people who don't actually need the money to survive. We aren't talking about someone on the brink of starvation or someone who can't afford basic clothes and is struggling to stay alive. It's usually the middle class or the wealthy elite—people who have plenty, but simply never have enough. So much for that idea that greed is driven by necessity...

Sometimes these folks have so much wealth that three generations of their descendants couldn't spend it all, yet they still pull dirty stunts just to stack up even more.

There's something deeply tragic about money, isn't there? How it manages to ruin so many lives..."

Most of them probably just have deep-seated issues or complexes. Personally, I don't see the point in owning three yachts... or ten cars, five vacation homes, etc.

Though, if I actually had $100 billion, I know exactly how I'd spend it. 🙂 I certainly wouldn't waste it on cars, motorcycles, boats, or houses I don't need.