Minimalism and moderation!

What are your thoughts on asceticism and living a more moderate life?
Do you feel like these two values have just slipped through our fingers in today's world?
In your opinion, what kind of fallout are we seeing because we aren't practicing them anymore?
And on a practical level, what could we actually do as individuals to lean more into that sense of restraint and simplicity?
It kind of brings up the whole idea of virtues, too—things like innocence, moderation, compassion, diligence, patience, kindness, and humility.
I’m curious to hear what you all think about those qualities as well.
Thanks.😉

Trust me, you won't find a bigger ascetic than me.😉

To me, being an ascetic is all about mastering those cravings—you know, every single kind of lustful impulse—and just cutting out all that trivial, mindless junk that doesn't actually help a person grow morally.

People these days are seriously lacking any sense of self-discipline, and if they actually knew how to rein in those shallow desires, they wouldn't spend their lives stepping on everyone else just to get what they want.😢

Nice one! Seriously great topic, I was actually
thinking along much the same lines. It’s funny how Kierkegaard nailed it—most people just drift through life stuck in that aesthetic stage. They chase those quick hits of dopamine and fleeting thrills like it's their only source of joy, which is honestly just a massive delusion. But, I wouldn't be surprised if most of them eventually wake up and realize they were just spinning their wheels. Some figure it out early, others... well, they figure it out way too late.

What steps could we actually take as individuals to become more ascetic and moderate?

Nothing, quite frankly. It is an impossible goal because one cannot simultaneously pursue asceticism and moderation; asceticism is, by its very definition, a form of excess.

Asceticism is essentially "hardcore" self-discipline—think of an ascetic as someone seeking a cure through rigor. Moderation, on the other hand, is more of a "gentle" discipline—it functions primarily as a preventative measure.
Since both paths fall under the umbrella of self-discipline, it really comes down to sheer mental fortitude—and that’s a muscle you have to train, "build up," which makes it incredibly difficult for those who haven't practiced... To build on the question regarding "utility" versus "harmfulness"—self-discipline is actually a form of intentional harm used specifically to achieve a beneficial outcome.
In today's world, it's hard to see the tangible benefits of such discipline—unless we're talking about extreme circumstances—especially in high-consumption American societies where everything is handed to you on a silver platter, which is why these kinds of "measures" often face such pushback.

Honestly, being an extreme ascetic makes you just as inhuman as being a total hedonist. It’s all about excess, right? That’s why we even have specific labels for them. An ascetic basically spits on any kind of normal human joy, while a hedonist just goes wild without giving a single thought to anyone else. At the end of the day, both types end up hating people and only caring about themselves. Like, look at John—he's always chasing this idea of spiritual superiority, while the other guy just looks down on everyone from his throne of mindless indulgence, acting like other people's suffering is just a fair price to pay for his next thrill. Now, don't get me wrong, some people are just naturally low-maintenance, but I wouldn't call them ascetics in that arrogant, man-hating way I'm talking about here.

Ashley Thompson9 said:Honestly, being an extreme ascetic makes you just as inhuman as being a total hedonist. It’s all about excess, right? That’s why we even have specific labels for them. An ascetic basically spits on any kind of normal human joy, while a hedonist just goes wild without giving a single thought to anyone else. At the end of the day, both types end up hating people and only caring about themselves. Like, look at John—he's always chasing this idea of spiritual superiority, while the other guy just looks down on everyone from his throne of mindless indulgence, acting like other people's suffering is just a fair price to pay for his next thrill. Now, don't get me wrong, some people are just naturally low-maintenance, but I wouldn't call them ascetics in that arrogant, man-hating way I'm talking about here.

I honestly don't see how you can link being on some "higher spiritual plane" with causing pain to other people. 😕

Besides, how is an ascetic even capable of making someone else suffer?

Asceticism is basically just disrespecting the body to worship the spirit.
Hedonism is doing the exact opposite—ignoring the soul just to indulge the flesh.
Moderation sounds like the logical middle ground.
The real problem is that everyone’s "middle ground" is in a completely different place.

I’ve been really chewing on what Patrick Wright2 wrote earlier about how Asceticism is essentially just the act of curbing your desires, and it got me wondering if we have to view it as this constant struggle of restraint, or if it could actually be more about finding true liberation through a complete shift in our values and how we see the world—which would mean that "restraint" isn't even really happening anymore because the desire itself has changed. It made me think of Saint Francis of Assisi; though honestly, maybe I'm only making that connection because I only recently started reading up on him, so I'm curious if it's okay to make that association here and whether you all think he could truly be considered an ascetic?

steelridge58 said:I’ve been really chewing on what Patrick Wright2 wrote earlier about how Asceticism is essentially just the act of curbing your desires, and it got me wondering if we have to view it as this constant struggle of restraint, or if it could actually be more about finding true liberation through a complete shift in our values and how we see the world—which would mean that "restraint" isn't even really happening anymore because the desire itself has changed. It made me think of Saint Francis of Assisi; though honestly, maybe I'm only making that connection because I only recently started reading up on him, so I'm curious if it's okay to make that association here and whether you all think he could truly be considered an ascetic?

It’s totally possible that it is a way of curbing desires—mostly the material stuff and physical cravings—with the ultimate goal being to break free from them entirely, and once you actually hit that goal, it isn't really restraint anymore, so it's not even Asceticism anymore.😉

steelridge58 said:I’ve been really chewing on what Patrick Wright2 wrote earlier about how Asceticism is essentially just the act of curbing your desires, and it got me wondering if we have to view it as this constant struggle of restraint, or if it could actually be more about finding true liberation through a complete shift in our values and how we see the world—which would mean that "restraint" isn't even really happening anymore because the desire itself has changed. It made me think of Saint Francis of Assisi; though honestly, maybe I'm only making that connection because I only recently started reading up on him, so I'm curious if it's okay to make that association here and whether you all think he could truly be considered an ascetic?

"Do not take gold, silver, or copper coins in your belts; no travel bag, no extra tunic, no shoes, nor a staff, for the worker is worthy of his food!" (Matthew 10:9-10)

It is often said that these specific passages from the Gospel of Matthew served as the blueprint for Saint Francis's entire way of life—leading him to preach while wearing nothing but a simple robe tied with a rope. He walked away from his family's wealth entirely to take a vow of poverty... which, by any definition, is certainly a path of Asceticism...

Look, both Asceticism and pure hedonism are just total extremes, right? Neither one is actually good for you if you're looking at the big picture.
Sometimes you gotta dive headfirst into those wild ends just to see what happens, but honestly, finding that sweet spot of moderation in everything is the only way to go.

Patrick Wright2 said:It’s totally possible that it is a way of curbing desires—mostly the material stuff and physical cravings—with the ultimate goal being to break free from them entirely, and once you actually hit that goal, it isn't really restraint anymore, so it's not even Asceticism anymore.😉

Then it becomes a fundamental part of who you are, a core element that shapes how you relate to the entire world, stemming from within yourself, where your relationship with yourself defines everything else...

Anyway, like Jonathan Brooks8 was mentioning in another thread regarding the nature of good, I really think this is an internal calling. Honestly, I don't believe there’s any kind of perfect model out there for anyone if it isn't completely authentic to who they truly are.

Jonathan Brooks8 said:"Do not take gold, silver, or copper coins in your belts; no travel bag, no extra tunic, no shoes, nor a staff, for the worker is worthy of his food!" (Matthew 10:9-10)

It is often said that these specific passages from the Gospel of Matthew served as the blueprint for Saint Francis's entire way of life—leading him to preach while wearing nothing but a simple robe tied with a rope. He walked away from his family's wealth entirely to take a vow of poverty... which, by any definition, is certainly a path of Asceticism...

You hit the nail on the head—the path of Asceticism... because you really have to persevere on any journey, and his was definitely one defined by intense self-discipline as an essential part of the trek. This thought from the Gospel is just beautiful, a true Philosophy... yet it remains deeply symbolic, much like the ancient wisdoms we study.

Francis of Assisi founded the Franciscan order, and while my knowledge of their actual work here is pretty limited—really just enough to know that when you hear the name of that order, you know they are people you can truly lean on and trust... I didn't know much at all. But then I found myself wanting to dig deeper into the life of Saint Francis after someone asked me: "Do you honestly believe truly holy people exist...?" and they followed up with the answer: "Well, I think Francis of Assisi is one."

Ashley Thompson9 said:Honestly, being an extreme ascetic makes you just as inhuman as being a total hedonist. It’s all about excess, right? That’s why we even have specific labels for them. An ascetic basically spits on any kind of normal human joy, while a hedonist just goes wild without giving a single thought to anyone else. At the end of the day, both types end up hating people and only caring about themselves. Like, look at John—he's always chasing this idea of spiritual superiority, while the other guy just looks down on everyone from his throne of mindless indulgence, acting like other people's suffering is just a fair price to pay for his next thrill. Now, don't get me wrong, some people are just naturally low-maintenance, but I wouldn't call them ascetics in that arrogant, man-hating way I'm talking about here.

To me, Asceticism is a way to Survive. At least, that's how it works for me. Honestly? I want to enjoy life. I want to be a hedonist. A Hermit would just take and take, giving absolutely nothing back. 👍

But I can't afford that kind of luxury. If I went full hedonist, I wouldn't last long. So, out of pure selfishness—or maybe necessity—I chose Asceticism. It was 26 years ago when I embraced my Karma. Looking back, I didn't really have a choice; Asceticism basically forced itself on me, purely so I could satisfy my own needs.

Do I hate people? No. I carry my cross quietly and let everyone else be who they are (and let's face it, 99.999% of people are hedonists, even those who lie to themselves thinking they're ascetics). 🙄

Every choice has its weight, but Hedonism carries the most because the body and soul burn out so fast that way.

Asceticism is trendy nowadays... just for show. But if you look at the Essence of it... not everyone is built to Survive this Philosophy. 😬

Ronald Rogers27

Patrick Wright2 said:I honestly don't see how you can link being on some "higher spiritual plane" with causing pain to other people. 😕

Besides, how is an ascetic even capable of making someone else suffer?

See, I was talking about the suffering caused by the hedonist, whereas when I mentioned the ascetic, I meant they look down on people because, in their eyes, everyone else is way too obsessed with material stuff. If true spirituality leads to a certain way of living, then someone who becomes naturally humble through that process isn't really an "ascetic"—they aren't actually giving anything up, they just don't feel the urge for all those over-the-top physical pleasures anymore. But an ascetic? They're performing. It's a pose. They want to show off their "spiritual strength" to impress everyone while judging other people's lifestyles as sinful or inferior. And hey, maybe they don't even realize they're doing it! They claim they aren't judging anyone, but let's be real—just by choosing to renounce things, they're basically triggering envy in everyone else. Truth is, they might not even have that inner strength; maybe they just lost the race in competing with others, so they turn to Asceticism out of pure spite.

Now, I don't want to be unfair to folks who live life to the fullest and enjoy themselves without being selfish or immoral about it. For them, everything I said about naturally humble people applies. Plus, letting go of things that we can rationally see are just extra baggage or unnecessary... well, that's not fake asceticism either. That’s just genuine inner strength.

Ashley Thompson9 said:See, I was talking about the suffering caused by the hedonist, whereas when I mentioned the ascetic, I meant they look down on people because, in their eyes, everyone else is way too obsessed with material stuff. If true spirituality leads to a certain way of living, then someone who becomes naturally humble through that process isn't really an "ascetic"—they aren't actually giving anything up, they just don't feel the urge for all those over-the-top physical pleasures anymore. But an ascetic? They're performing. It's a pose. They want to show off their "spiritual strength" to impress everyone while judging other people's lifestyles as sinful or inferior. And hey, maybe they don't even realize they're doing it! They claim they aren't judging anyone, but let's be real—just by choosing to renounce things, they're basically triggering envy in everyone else. Truth is, they might not even have that inner strength; maybe they just lost the race in competing with others, so they turn to Asceticism out of pure spite.

Now, I don't want to be unfair to folks who live life to the fullest and enjoy themselves without being selfish or immoral about it. For them, everything I said about naturally humble people applies. Plus, letting go of things that we can rationally see are just extra baggage or unnecessary... well, that's not fake asceticism either. That’s just genuine inner strength.

I can't get behind everything written here. To me, Asceticism is a Life Philosophy. It’s about using sacrifice and intense discipline to carve out a better position for yourself—specifically, a position of multi-layered freedom. 😬

Someone who truly understands their own struggles knows exactly what they're trying to achieve through them. And yeah, that definitely builds strength in both the body and the spirit. No doubt about it. 👍

Ronald Rogers27

So, you look at guys like Siddhartha Gautama and Martin Luther, right? Both of them really dove headfirst into Asceticism, only to realize pretty quickly that it was a total dead end. It just doesn't get you anywhere. Instead, they pivoted toward actual spiritual growth, figuring out that true moderation comes from gaining wisdom. Honestly, if you want to actually think or dig deep into your own soul, having a stomach that's either stuffed to the brim or completely empty is just a recipe for disaster.

Ashley Thompson9 said:See, I was talking about the suffering caused by the hedonist, whereas when I mentioned the ascetic, I meant they look down on people because, in their eyes, everyone else is way too obsessed with material stuff. If true spirituality leads to a certain way of living, then someone who becomes naturally humble through that process isn't really an "ascetic"—they aren't actually giving anything up, they just don't feel the urge for all those over-the-top physical pleasures anymore. But an ascetic? They're performing. It's a pose. They want to show off their "spiritual strength" to impress everyone while judging other people's lifestyles as sinful or inferior. And hey, maybe they don't even realize they're doing it! They claim they aren't judging anyone, but let's be real—just by choosing to renounce things, they're basically triggering envy in everyone else. Truth is, they might not even have that inner strength; maybe they just lost the race in competing with others, so they turn to Asceticism out of pure spite.

Now, I don't want to be unfair to folks who live life to the fullest and enjoy themselves without being selfish or immoral about it. For them, everything I said about naturally humble people applies. Plus, letting go of things that we can rationally see are just extra baggage or unnecessary... well, that's not fake asceticism either. That’s just genuine inner strength.

Isn't asceticism inherently tied to inner strength?

Inner strength drives asceticism. It provides the purpose.

Ascetic practices themselves actually fuel the exact kind of spiritual egoism you just described.

... it’s like when women—just to feel closer to God, I guess—follow all those rigid rules... only to end up staring at those tiny little suburban houses later on... someone once told me... they’re practically starving for that kind of devotion from the big cities
...this guy traveled all over the country... staying with all sorts of different mother figures... while hiding this deep inability within himself to actually change his ways—to fix his manners or truly shine... damn it
...good grief... my god... who on earth gave you a name like that? (..it's so postmodern..)