When health leaves you with no options: Is assisted suicide justifiable?

@samting: without getting into any "major surgeries," you might get maybe a year or so out of it, depending on how things play out and just how effective those temporary fixes end up being.
If you go the route of "serious operations," the goal is obviously a longer lifespan—aiming for those double digits. But don't let this seemingly obvious or "simple" choice fool you; the reality is way more complicated, and there's a massive chance you just end up spending years bouncing between hospitals and operating rooms only to face an inevitable ending that’s much harder to deal with.

@armagedon: I've realized firsthand just how much of a mental game this all is. And look, I'm not disputing that; you have to be strong and determined and constantly push yourself forward, otherwise nothing really matters. But where I disagree is with this whole "coward vs. warrior" narrative. Personally, I don't think there's anything honorable about a guy trying to fight a wildfire with a handheld fan when he's got a tank of rocket fuel sitting right next to him to burn through it in a second.😁 Okay, it's a bit of a goofy analogy, but it captures exactly what I'm getting at.

I mean, if you actually know how much time you have left while you’re still feeling okay, you might as well go out and do everything you’ve ever wanted—travel, party, just live life to the fullest, and who knows what happens next?
There are even stories about people beating the heaviest diagnoses simply because they stopped obsessing over being "cured" at any cost. Like, they just let go and went out to enjoy themselves—I once read about someone who supposedly beat cancer just by binge-watching comedies all day long.
Bottom line: if you end up getting better, awesome. If not, at least you had a blast.
If death is inevitable anyway, I’d much rather spend my final days enjoying life—assuming you can even stay sane enough to do that—than stuck in a hospital bed with tubes shoved up your nose.

But since you didn't specify exactly what you're dealing with, take this as a random thought rather than actual advice.

Raymond Price4 said:I mean, if you actually know how much time you have left while you’re still feeling okay, you might as well go out and do everything you’ve ever wanted—travel, party, just live life to the fullest, and who knows what happens next?
There are even stories about people beating the heaviest diagnoses simply because they stopped obsessing over being "cured" at any cost. Like, they just let go and went out to enjoy themselves—I once read about someone who supposedly beat cancer just by binge-watching comedies all day long.
Bottom line: if you end up getting better, awesome. If not, at least you had a blast.
If death is inevitable anyway, I’d much rather spend my final days enjoying life—assuming you can even stay sane enough to do that—than stuck in a hospital bed with tubes shoved up your nose.

But since you didn't specify exactly what you're dealing with, take this as a random thought rather than actual advice.

That’s pretty much all I was looking for; thanks.

Laura Hayes74 said:@samting: without getting into any "major surgeries," you might get maybe a year or so out of it, depending on how things play out and just how effective those temporary fixes end up being.
If you go the route of "serious operations," the goal is obviously a longer lifespan—aiming for those double digits. But don't let this seemingly obvious or "simple" choice fool you; the reality is way more complicated, and there's a massive chance you just end up spending years bouncing between hospitals and operating rooms only to face an inevitable ending that’s much harder to deal with.

@armagedon: I've realized firsthand just how much of a mental game this all is. And look, I'm not disputing that; you have to be strong and determined and constantly push yourself forward, otherwise nothing really matters. But where I disagree is with this whole "coward vs. warrior" narrative. Personally, I don't think there's anything honorable about a guy trying to fight a wildfire with a handheld fan when he's got a tank of rocket fuel sitting right next to him to burn through it in a second.😁 Okay, it's a bit of a goofy analogy, but it captures exactly what I'm getting at.

There’s always hope, no matter how much of a mess things get! Your example is spot on, but even then, you still hold onto hope for life regardless of how brutal it becomes... using the rocket fuel is just a faster, more straightforward way to get there.

I think you’re looking at this all wrong. You aren't entering a battle where you're meant to "slowly burn out"—you’re fighting for your very existence. That means you fight the fire head-on!

If we're being real, sure, losing is a possibility. Dying a painful death is always on the table. But if your will to live is stronger than that fear or the prospect of death itself, then no matter what happens, you're the one who wins.

I’ve been scrolling through some of your posts just now, and I honestly feel—look, I really think—that all these recent threads about suicide over on the psychology subforum are totally out of line. It’s just dragging anyone who happens to stumble onto Reddit into this dark headspace.

I mean, seriously, what has the internet even become today?!

I’m not one for long-winded debates—unless it’s actually part of my job, of course—but imagine this: you’re just sitting there in a room, and someone walks in and says, "I want to kill myself," or "I'm going to end it tomorrow,"

or maybe

you're dealing with someone who was just saved from a suicide attempt.

And they look you right in the eye and say;

"Screw you guys, I'm still going to do it anyway. You didn't save me, you just delayed the inevitable..." blah, blah, blah...

For most people, stuff like that feels abstract—it's just something you read about.

But what if you think these things are just happening to you at least once a month? And YOU are the one the person who actually has to step up, save them, and then—before a psychiatrist even shows up—you have to be the one to calm them down, comfort them, and deal with the fallout...

I honestly think you just have to keep fighting as long as there’s actually some sense in doing so—you know, as long as there's even a tiny glimmer of hope that things might turn around. If you had, say, end-stage cancer where nothing is operable, you’ve already done the chemo and the radiation, and the doctors are basically telling you there's nothing left to do because the pain is just getting worse... in that case, I get it. I could totally see why someone would want to just call it quits. But from what I gathered, there actually *is* a solution for your specific issue that could lead to surviving for decades if everything goes right. So, if I'm reading this correctly, you have an incredibly strong reason to stop thinking about giving up and start fighting for your life instead. I mean, you can always quit later, right? Also, I really feel like everyone should learn how to just live one day at a time without constantly spiraling about the future—especially people dealing with massive health crises or huge life struggles. It helps. And hey, maybe it would be a good idea to reach out to a professional in psychology, especially since you mentioned they gave you a six-month window without surgery, but way more time if you go through with it. Please, take that chance. There are so many people who get told there's absolutely nothing left to do and they're just given six months to live. Come on, man, fight for it.

crimsonhound80 said:I’ve been scrolling through some of your posts just now, and I honestly feel—look, I really think—that all these recent threads about suicide over on the psychology subforum are totally out of line. It’s just dragging anyone who happens to stumble onto Reddit into this dark headspace.

I mean, seriously, what has the internet even become today?!

I’m not one for long-winded debates—unless it’s actually part of my job, of course—but imagine this: you’re just sitting there in a room, and someone walks in and says, "I want to kill myself," or "I'm going to end it tomorrow,"

or maybe

you're dealing with someone who was just saved from a suicide attempt.

And they look you right in the eye and say;

"Screw you guys, I'm still going to do it anyway. You didn't save me, you just delayed the inevitable..." blah, blah, blah...

For most people, stuff like that feels abstract—it's just something you read about.

But what if you think these things are just happening to you at least once a month? And YOU are the one the person who actually has to step up, save them, and then—before a psychiatrist even shows up—you have to be the one to calm them down, comfort them, and deal with the fallout...

... are you speaking from personal experience here? Like, do you work somewhere similar to an ER or a crisis intervention center? (just curious)

crimsonhound80 said:I’ve been scrolling through some of your posts just now, and I honestly feel—look, I really think—that all these recent threads about suicide over on the psychology subforum are totally out of line. It’s just dragging anyone who happens to stumble onto Reddit into this dark headspace.

I mean, seriously, what has the internet even become today?!

I’m not one for long-winded debates—unless it’s actually part of my job, of course—but imagine this: you’re just sitting there in a room, and someone walks in and says, "I want to kill myself," or "I'm going to end it tomorrow,"

or maybe

you're dealing with someone who was just saved from a suicide attempt.

And they look you right in the eye and say;

"Screw you guys, I'm still going to do it anyway. You didn't save me, you just delayed the inevitable..." blah, blah, blah...

For most people, stuff like that feels abstract—it's just something you read about.

But what if you think these things are just happening to you at least once a month? And YOU are the one the person who actually has to step up, save them, and then—before a psychiatrist even shows up—you have to be the one to calm them down, comfort them, and deal with the fallout...

I don't quite agree with your general point here. I suppose I don't see why discussing suicide—in a theoretical sense, or even looking at it as a broader phenomenon—would be problematic. It’s similar to how we might discuss other self-destructive behaviors in general. In fact, I think the whole point of having these discussions is to: a) debunk certain myths, b) stay grounded and rational, and c) offer whatever support we can to one another. That doesn't mean we're encouraging anyone to engage in harmful acts; rather, it allows us to talk about these issues as human beings. The person who started this thread is simply interested in hearing different perspectives on a specific issue. So far, the responses—whether they are more analytical or motivational in nature—seem to be heading toward stripping away that overly tragic lens through which people often view mental illness and life's hardships.

Death doesn't scare me, and honestly, religion isn't an issue either. What actually keeps me up at night is the thought of my actions hurting my family. I've put a lot of thought into this. I think they have a pretty outdated and flawed way of looking at death; at the end of the day, it’s really just a seesaw between doing what’s best for me or what’s best for them. Personally, I don't think it's worth going through all that misery... I'd rather just make the most of the time I have left and go out on my own terms, in peace...

I don't really buy that you'll be "at peace" by choosing to leave.

If you truly didn't want to live, I don't believe you would have even posted this. In fact, you're proving you want to live—you even admitted it in one of your previous posts.

Life is just what it is. Sometimes it's bad genetics, sometimes it's our own screw-ups, and sometimes it's just some higher power pulling the strings...
That's how it is for you, too. Whatever it is, there's a cause. I think your real struggle is just refusing to accept what life is throwing at you. At least, not accepting it in the way it's being handed to you. I wouldn't even say you can't handle it, because the way you're thinking shows a certain level of grit and courage. Then again, some judgmental religious types would probably call you weak.

The seesaw you're sitting on hasn't tipped yet. Are you looking for someone here to give you a push in one direction or the other?

Look, your views on death are totally valid. But isn't it also a reality that death brings pain? It's a seriously messed up situation.

But I'm missing something. I realized you have a choice that offers you a life in your double digits, after a period of surgery, recovery...

You know what seems most logical to me? Taking those double digits.
Why? Because your life matters to you, but it also matters to the people who love you. It doesn't sit right with me that you're making decisions for them. You'd be robbing them of the chance to show you all that love and attention, to care for you, and to help you get to those double digits we talked about.

Why would you walk away from their love and support?

You're kidding yourself if you think it'll be easier for them. It won't. You aren't protecting them; if anything, you're leaving them a permanent inheritance of pain. A pain that will haunt them with the word "why." That question is a curse; it stays forever. It hides in a corner of your brain and then comes screaming back, louder every single time. I get it—I've carried that question in my head for years. Even though I've accepted it, even though I've "forgiven" it, that damn "why" is still right here.

But whatever, that's irrelevant. That's just a question someone else will have to carry.

In your story, the main thing is that life will bring what it brings, and you have choices:

a) end it now
b) try to survive, knowing everything that's ahead
c) end it if attempt "b" fails
d) die a natural death one day in your double digits

The decision is entirely yours.

If you pick "a": be fair enough to ensure it doesn't end as just an attempt.

If you pick "b": hats off to you.

If you pick "c": don't let it stay a failed attempt.

If you pick "d": then you've realized you are unique in this world, and that what you want to cut short for whatever reason is YOUR LIFE, no matter what it looks like or what it brings you.

And if you're asking me (which you aren't), I'm voting for the last option.

I’m also terminally ill. There are still years of agony ahead of me, provided I don't succumb to some sudden accident first. I’ve been thinking about suicide—specifically, how I might actually enjoy life and experience it a little before I depart this world. I have some savings sitting in my bank account. It’s possible I’ll try using heroin for a few months until my funds run dry, and then simply overdose. 😍

Laura Hayes74 said:I'll try to keep this brief,

I can say for certain that I'm staring down a brutal, long, and totally unpredictable stretch of surgeries, setbacks, and constant pain, all just for the POTENTIAL chance to get back to some semblance of a normal life—which honestly doesn't even feel like much of a win when you consider I'll likely be a burden on everyone else for a long time with a really uncertain future ahead of me.

Right now, I can get through my days without too much trouble, but that won't last forever, especially if I go through with these operations. What I'm seriously weighing is whether it makes more sense to just take the time and the opportunity I have right now to live out this one (shorter) chapter as best as I can, and then... when the time comes... just handle things on my own terms and end it.

Death doesn't scare me, and religion isn't something that weighs on my mind either. The only thing that actually worries me is the idea that my choice might hurt my family, and I've spent a lot of time chewing on that. To be honest, I think they have an outdated and pretty flawed way of looking at death, and at the end of the day, it really just comes down to a balancing act between pleasing myself or pleasing them. Personally, I just don't see the point in enduring all that misery... I'd much rather make the most of the time I have left and leave on my own terms, in peace...

It wouldn't be right for me to come here and ask for specific advice on how to end my life, but if anyone has some actual wisdom to share or advice to give, I'm all ears. Would you guys support someone making this call if they were facing what I'm facing? How would you handle it? I mean, what the heck, what would you even do or where would you go if you knew your life was going to be over a year from today?

PS. Don't go trying to send me to a shrink, I'm pretty level-headed :)
PPS. The specifics of my illness don't matter for this, I already know everything I need to know, so please don't even go there.

I think your line of thinking is completely misguided. I don't understand people who would end things because of upcoming suffering or illness that hasn't even arrived yet; that illness will eventually claim you regardless. Death is inevitable, and any sane person wants to live. To me, suicide or an efficient euthanasia process seems acceptable only if a person is in the final stages of cancer, just to spare themselves and their loved ones the constant agony and prolonged struggle.
If I thought my life was coming to an end, I would research the illness and treatment options as much as possible, prepare myself for the fight, study how others handled it, and be ready for a total internal transformation and a complete change in lifestyle. I wouldn't change everything just to fight the disease, but to actually *live*... and I'd try to find joy by doing constructive things I never had the courage or will to do before.
A few years ago, I met a man who took his own life because he ended up in a wheelchair; he drove his wheelchair into the ocean while intoxicated. It’s interesting that before his accident, he lived quite recklessly, causing trouble for everyone at home and always driving fast cars.
His inability to stop being SELF-INDULGENT (living by the philosophy of "everything must always be easy and comfortable for me") was probably the peak of his suffering. On the other hand, you have people who accept their illness as an opportunity for personal growth, learning, and ultimate change.
The ones I love most are those who play basketball in wheelchairs and find joy in the game like children.😁
Ultimately, it all depends on what you define as SUFFERING.
Personally, if I could give every shallow and impulsive person the chance to face a serious illness with an uncertain outcome, I would, just so they could learn the true values of life.

Laura Hayes74 said:Thanks for all the input, everyone.

To those of you saying you’d fight to the bitter end regardless of the circumstances, I’ve got one question for you. Do you honestly believe you could actually keep that promise when the moment truly hits? Is that something you say because you genuinely feel you have that kind of grit, or did you see someone else pull off something similar that inspired you? (And I’m not talking about Susan Lewis2, if you catch my drift.) Are you actually prepared to just go to bed and spend every single minute staring at a blank white wall for, say, the next year? I know I’m probably being a bit intense with this question, but I just want to push you guys to think a little deeper about what you're saying. It’s easy to talk a big game and convince yourself you’re made of steel, but that illusion tends to shatter right when you need it most.

Also, a quick question for the whole group:
How would you even begin to share a thought like this with your family? I think my parents are pretty level-headed and they’d eventually get it, but I can't see any way to bring it up without causing a massive scene. The initial shock would just wreck them and they wouldn't be able to think straight; I'd be doing more harm than good just by opening my mouth, and since everything is still so theoretical right now, I’m not sure if it's even worth the fallout.

If I believed it would lead to a positive outcome, then absolutely... just look up the concept of visualization in professional sports...

Laura Hayes74 said:@samting: without getting into any "major surgeries," you might get maybe a year or so out of it, depending on how things play out and just how effective those temporary fixes end up being.
If you go the route of "serious operations," the goal is obviously a longer lifespan—aiming for those double digits. But don't let this seemingly obvious or "simple" choice fool you; the reality is way more complicated, and there's a massive chance you just end up spending years bouncing between hospitals and operating rooms only to face an inevitable ending that’s much harder to deal with.

@armagedon: I've realized firsthand just how much of a mental game this all is. And look, I'm not disputing that; you have to be strong and determined and constantly push yourself forward, otherwise nothing really matters. But where I disagree is with this whole "coward vs. warrior" narrative. Personally, I don't think there's anything honorable about a guy trying to fight a wildfire with a handheld fan when he's got a tank of rocket fuel sitting right next to him to burn through it in a second.😁 Okay, it's a bit of a goofy analogy, but it captures exactly what I'm getting at.

Our entire perception of life is psychological. Perhaps psychotherapy could serve as the first step toward true self-healing...

Suicide can never be justified.
I get it—things are incredibly tough right now, and I know you’re staring down a mountain of massive changes and likely a whole lot of disappointment—but taking your own life? Especially when there are so many people out there who never even got a fair shot at starting a life in the first place? It just doesn't sit right with me.
My take is that you should try to find a way to live as well as possible with whatever you've been given, regardless of what kind of health struggles you're dealing with...
It’s actually precisely in those kinds of moments where you finally start to appreciate what you actually have...
Good luck.🙂

Laura Hayes74 said:@samting: without getting into any "major surgeries," you might get maybe a year or so out of it, depending on how things play out and just how effective those temporary fixes end up being.
If you go the route of "serious operations," the goal is obviously a longer lifespan—aiming for those double digits. But don't let this seemingly obvious or "simple" choice fool you; the reality is way more complicated, and there's a massive chance you just end up spending years bouncing between hospitals and operating rooms only to face an inevitable ending that’s much harder to deal with.

@armagedon: I've realized firsthand just how much of a mental game this all is. And look, I'm not disputing that; you have to be strong and determined and constantly push yourself forward, otherwise nothing really matters. But where I disagree is with this whole "coward vs. warrior" narrative. Personally, I don't think there's anything honorable about a guy trying to fight a wildfire with a handheld fan when he's got a tank of rocket fuel sitting right next to him to burn through it in a second.😁 Okay, it's a bit of a goofy analogy, but it captures exactly what I'm getting at.

So what are we actually talking about here, carpet?

If we're debating whether it's worth the pain and the absolute mess just to stay alive—knowing full well that our sense of satisfaction comes from how we perceive things—then I see someone looking for an excuse to run away from changing their perspective on life.

There’s actually tons of scientific literature and research on this, involving long-term studies on people who dealt with major accidents or loss (like permanent disabilities and stuff). Basically, these studies found that the level of life satisfaction for "affected" individuals eventually returned to their baseline levels from before the tragedy after some time had passed. The longest "readjustment" period was about a year, though for many, it happened even faster. I don't have the specific source on hand, but I know it's mentioned in M.'s book on intelligence, which cites the original study.

Regardless of me citing research, isn't it just obvious? It’s the only real truth in a world defined by this insane divide between the hungry and the wealthy, the sick and the healthy.

"Happy is he who knows how to love." As I got older, the little trifles that used to satisfy me mattered less and less, and I realized more clearly where to find true joy and purpose. I learned that being loved means nothing if you don't know how to love everything; the ability to feel is what gives our existence beauty and value. Wherever happiness shows up on this earth, it's woven from emotions. Money is nothing, power is nothing. Plenty of people have both and are still miserable. Beauty is nothing either; I've seen gorgeous men and women who were utterly unhappy despite their looks. Even health isn't everything; everyone is healthy if they feel healthy. There have been the sick who were bursting with a will to live and nurtured it until the very end, and there have been the healthy who withered away because they were paralyzed by the fear of suffering.
But happiness was always right there for anyone who knew how to love and lived through their feelings; if they nurtured them instead of crushing or suppressing them, those feelings brought satisfaction. Beauty doesn't bring joy to the one who possesses it, but to the one who knows how to love it and admire it."

Hermann Hesse

The point is, your only true reality is your inner world, and you shape that world through your perception. Things you can no longer "reach" like you used to won't ruin you in the long run; they’ll actually force you to shift your perspective.

Only a fool suffers over things they can't have and lets all the other beauties pass them by. And trust me, there is never as much crap in the world as there is beauty.

If you ask me, it's totally possible that you're actually heading into the best period of your life, because you're finally going to turn your attention to things that actually matter..

Turning toward suicide isn't freedom. In this case, turning toward suicide is an escape, while embracing the Struggle is true freedom.

Very few people ever learn how to truly accept things, but that's the only way to live a life worth having.