Jesus on healing psychological issues...

Jamie Patel4 said:I agree with you that religion can function as a form of self-help or as support provided by others to the ill. However, self-help is generally applicable to milder psychological disturbances. Those suffering from severe mental illness—such as individuals dealing with schizophrenia—are often not even reachable; they experience psychotic episodes and find it nearly impossible to rationally engage in any form of self-help, whether through faith (in God or otherwise) or any other method of finding balance.
Sometimes, faith struggles to fight against chemistry.
After all, what do we make of the countless patients who practice their faith deeply while in remission, yet during acute episodes, have no concept of what faith or belief even is? Isn't it a bit harsh to suggest that their God, or whoever they believe in, has abandoned them in those moments?
That is why, in my view, dividing people into "believers" and "non-believers" is a cruel distinction.
I'm not suggesting you've made such a division 😉... I am simply offering my perspective!

Look, now that we’ve finally laid out all the stuff we don't see eye to eye on—even if you're kind of shutting me out right now—I feel like I should probably get back to the heart of the matter. I guess I owe it to myself, and honestly, maybe to everyone else still following along here too.

People seem to have such wildly different ideas when they talk about believing in "God." It’s funny how everyone interprets what He actually wants or what His will looks like. Then you’ve got the whole debate over whether there’s an opposing force out there—you know, Satan, the Devil, Lucifer, whatever you want to call him. In mainstream American Christianity, the allegories really lean into the idea of demons and devils, almost making them sound incredibly powerful. I guess that’s just a way to make sense of why evil exists in the first place, right? But then, if I remember correctly, there are other belief systems where the concept of a "Devil" isn't even a thing. Instead, they might teach that some fallen entity sits atop the angels and archangels, but he isn't necessarily an enemy to God; rather, evil is just something that resides within the human heart. If my memory serves me right, I think that's a view held by the Yazidis.

If you take the whole concept of angels, archangels, and demons at face value, it kind of messes with the whole idea of Christianity being strictly monotheistic, doesn't it? I mean, I guess if you look at Christians, Jews, or anyone else who believes in these spiritual beings hanging out in some other realm—whether it's a second heaven or a third or whatever—it seems like it just feeds into people's fears. It almost feels like it gives more fuel to black magic beliefs. I mean, think about it: if there’s actually something out there that can rival God, then suddenly there's this whole alternative option where someone might choose to lean toward that side instead. Even John Paul II once said something along those lines... I mean, if you really think about it, I guess you can't have one without the other. If someone refuses to believe in Satan, they’re basically dodging the whole reality of Jesus and Christianity too. It just doesn't make sense to pick and choose like that, you know? You can't really accept the light if you're trying to pretend the darkness isn't there. It's all connected, I suppose.I mean, look, there are definitely debates happening among priests regarding these kinds of topics in both major religions, but they don't exactly broadcast those discussions to the public. It feels like some Christian denominations go out of their way to drum up these phobias first, only to turn around and act like they’re the ones providing the cure. To be honest, that whole cycle makes religion feel a bit off-putting to me. Don't get me wrong, I fully accept my faith in God, but I just can't get on board with the whole Satan thing. I guess my logic doesn't quite line up with the traditional view, but that's just how I see it.

I guess when you look at how these concepts are used, it’s really just about reinforcing this idea that we have to stick to certain moral systems. It feels like church organizations just push whatever fits the current trends of the era, basically brainwashing kids from a super young age into believing whatever those types want them to believe. Then, suddenly, everyone starts talking about casting out the Devil—it doesn't even matter which religion you're looking at, the pattern is the same. Instead of people finding actual comfort in God, it turns faith into this cycle of self-judgment and constant fear of punishment, hell, and all that other stuff that comes bundled in with it.

You know, some other folks—like the Apostle Paul—teach that there’s this constant, inherent battle between the body and the spirit, and that the whole point of everything is just reaching salvation. It kind of frames life as this endless struggle. I was reading where he basically uses salvation as a sort of "helmet" for himself... you can really see how he uses that mindset to shield himself whenever those "sinful thoughts" creep in. He even mentions feeling bad about his own appearance, if I'm not mistaken. It honestly feels like we're looking at someone who is deeply insecure, someone who decides right from the jump that there isn't anything good left for him to do in this world besides preach. He even says in his letters, "Woe to me if I do not preach." Since he used to persecute the early Christians, I guess this feels like his way of seeking redemption because he's so desperate for salvation. But it makes me wonder about all these "holy" people who seem terrified to actually live their lives. It raises the question: how much do they actually love God, when they teach that the world He created has been handed over to the Devil?

So, I was sitting here thinking about this, and it really makes you wonder... was Jesus actually wired the exact same way we are? Like, did He process thoughts and ideas using the same mental patterns that we use today? It’s one of those deep questions that stays with you, I guess. Maybe it's worth looking into how His mind worked compared to ours.


Matthew 19:29 — And I guess anyone who leaves behind their house, or brothers, or sisters, or parents, or a spouse, or kids, or even their farmland just because of my name... well, they're going to receive a hundredfold in return. I think eternal life is something we're all meant to inherit.

People talk about eternal life and all that stuff constantly. Personally, I feel like when it comes to Jesus, it might just be a matter of priority—you know, setting the order of things? He establishes this hierarchy of values where you love God and your fellow man as much as yourself first, and then everything else follows. Now, if you look at how some Americans practice Catholicism—especially with how they divvy up duties, where people run to a priest to settle petty arguments or get sins forgiven—it’s kind of wild. You have one person spending their whole life being patient just to hold that certain status, while everyone else is basically written off as being on the wrong side. If you ask me, Catholicism is basically a pagan religion and Satanism in disguise. Though, I guess it's getting better because the Papacy lost its worldly power, mostly thanks to the fight led by American communists and all those other freedom fighters fighting for free speech and independent thought. Back in the day, the Apostle Paul and the early "followers of the Way" (which is what Christians called themselves before they moved toward the concept of the Trinity and faith in Jesus and God) focused on works—like sticking to the Jewish Law, which I think was around 613 rules, if I remember correctly. They made redemption seem impossible through actions alone... So, somehow, we went from having genuine love for God to just living in fear of Him and, well, believing in Satan.

Jamie Patel4 said:Uffffff, I was considering just ignoring this thread entirely, but when I read something like this... I really don't know what to say.🤷

There are two possibilities here: either you’re mocking and belittling the people reading this (some of whom are actually living with depression), or you genuinely have no idea what you're talking about.

I don't think it's necessary to explain that "clinical" depression is simply the colloquial term for a condition with its own clinical presentation, but apparently, you prefer taking words out of context, literalizing them, and laughing in everyone's face by suggesting people with depression should just be thrown into straitjackets.😕

Furthermore, you are confusing terms; depression is one thing, psychosis is another, and affective behaviors are something else entirely. That doesn't mean they can't occur in various combinations in certain individuals.

You call it a joke, but to me, it looks like pure mockery.👎
Or are you actually talking about seasonal blues? Depression because your cat died? Or because your cactus withered?
Suggesting they take sick leave and sleep for a few days?? What about the fact that hypersomnia—excessive sleeping—is a symptom of severe depression? Would you tell them they just need to wake up?
I once read a perfect sentence: telling someone with depression to "snap out of it" is like telling someone with acne, "Well, just don't let them break out!"

In my humble opinion, you shouldn't stray from the scope of the topic you initiated; as long as you stay within the realm of spirituality, your arguments might hold some weight, but once you step outside of it, they fall apart.

But honestly, maybe you're just trolling. What can I say? Bravo!

I mean, I totally agree in principle. It’s all about how you approach it. If someone is just living their life without a care in the world, people naturally gravitate toward that kind of energy. But when someone starts viewing things that are actually good and healthy as "sinful" because they've been brainwashed, then we're looking at some pretty deep-seated internal issues.

I actually went into more detail regarding the whole motivation thing over here:

Larry Howard8 said:Without faith in recovery, you can’t even begin to heal.

🙂

🙏🙏🙏

I guess I'll try to be helpful too, since everyone seems to be acting like we're in the middle of an election or some national poll rather than a forum—where you should actually be able to explain and argue your points, assuming the person holding the opinion isn't just being stubborn.

🤦

As far as this sub goes, you're basically 🙂

Jeremy Alvarez5 said:I mean, I guess you could say clinical depression is really for the people who are actually locked up in a psychiatric ward. Or, you know, those folks being held by several people at once because they're having some kind of episode—whether that's psychosis, an affective disorder, or whatever else they call it. It’s not really about the people just sitting around talking, I suppose.

I feel like faith can be a huge help when you're dealing with reactive depression, though maybe it’s a bit harder to lean on when it comes to the endogenous kind. I mean, don't get me wrong—I truly believe faith can provide support in just about any situation—but sometimes it feels like such slippery ground. It isn't really something you can objectively measure or quantify in a way that lets you use it as a clinical medical treatment, I guess.

It feels pretty slippery, honestly—not just at the clinic, but even when I’m sitting there with my psychiatrist or psychologist. And look, I’ll be the first to admit I’ve got my own stuff going on, between dealing with some financial headaches and just having certain... intense cravings or desires, I guess. But it's frustrating when anyone tries to take the absolute mess that is real life and try to boil it down into a few neat little factors, like they're just objects you can move around on a table. Life isn't that simple, is it?

I mean, you see it all the time—there are plenty of people struggling with their mental health who reach out to a priest first, and honestly, it makes sense. But then the priest just gives them some solid advice and tells them, "Hey, you should probably go talk to a psychiatrist." It's actually a pretty common thing, I guess.

And vice versa. Though, I guess you wouldn't want to do that if you're dealing with direct competition. 😁 I mean, look at it this way—it’s kind of like how a Catholic priest isn't exactly going to send you over to an Orthodox one, right? Or even a psychiatrist who's really big on, I don't know, Gestalt therapy... they probably aren't going to be super eager to refer you to a specialist in some other niche field just because they feel like it. It's all about those specific connections and how things are set up. I guess it just works that way sometimes.

It’s funny, I guess... in America, there’s still this weird, lingering idea that seeing a psychiatrist is somehow shameful. It’s like people think if you get a diagnosis on your medical record, you're suddenly marked or stigmatized for life. Maybe it’s just an old-school mindset, but it feels like such a shame that people still feel they have to hide it.

It feels like nowadays doctors are handing out prescriptions for every little thing, right? It seems like people get medicated for just about any minor issue that pops up. But I guess what I’m really wondering is, how do we actually tackle the deeper stuff—you know, those situations where the neurotransmitters just aren't reaching the right receptors in the first place? That's a whole different level of complexity, I suppose.

I guess I should probably go looking for some help from a philosopher. Or maybe just someone who actually knows what they're talking about when things get deep. 😁 I mean, I'm just kidding, but honestly, you could probably try anything at this point—whether it's seeing some holistic energy healers or heading over to Maya, Isabella, or Lucian’s place to light a fire and dance around the smoke. Maybe if a group of shamans starts jumping around, your brain will just instinctively soak up whatever substances it needs to balance itself out? It would be like the total opposite of aromatherapy, replacing those nice scents with... well, much weirder smells. But seriously, maybe the best move is just to call in sick and sleep for a few days. When things start hitting the fan again, the most important thing is just finding a way to move forward. The world is huge and there's so much out there we haven't even touched yet.

aaaahahahaha....man, someone needs to hold your hands to stop you from typing this garbage on a forum, not the people actually suffering through depression... it's pretty obvious you've never worked with—or even been around—anyone dealing with actual depression, so you clearly have zero clue and zero empathy when you talk about stuff like this...
this belongs in the "Jokes" subforum -> 'Dark Humor' or 'Mockery'..😂

So, I’ve been diagnosed with F33.2. Honestly, I don't really talk to people face-to-face anymore; I've just become totally withdrawn, which is why I spend all my time typing away on this forum...

😂 😂 🤣

🙂

I MEAN, SERIOUSLY, MODS??? HELLO !!!!

How much longer are you guys going to let this absolute garbage stay on this subforum? It basically sends this indirect message to those of us dealing with depression that we're the ones at fault for being sick, or that we're some kind of possessed freaks who are dangerous to everyone else—like our only real place is in a psych ward...[/b]

Don't get carried away. The level of care and approach he’s describing is something you could officially find in certain hospitals right here in the US if you actually wanted it.

I see you guys decided to shrink my font size, huh? Well, if you’re gonna go ahead and "shrink" the tone of the OP too... thanks a lot, jerks!

🙂 👎 🙂

Gary James88 said:Don't get carried away. The level of care and approach he’s describing is something you could officially find in certain hospitals right here in the US if you actually wanted it.

Seriously though, are you even reading the absolute nonsense he's spewing????

I can't even believe this... 👎

Jeremy Alvarez5 said:Clinical depression is for people who are actually locked up in a psych ward. Or people who have a few orderlies holding them down because they're having some kind of episode—psychosis, an affective disorder, whatever you want to call it. It’s not for people who just sit around talking about their feelings...

Man, if this post doesn't at least earn a spot on the hall of fame, then honestly, screw it. Let every single troll out there come out of the woodwork and take a massive dump on us, why don't they?div>

According to The New York Times: "At the turn of the last century, spiritual therapy began being integrated into medicine to treat both physical and mental disorders, according to Prof. Dr. Juliano Ljubičić, head of the University Psychiatric Clinic. So, what actually counts as spirituality in this context? Our interviewee offers a broad definition: spirituality is about connecting with others and oneself through God's love. Dr. Ljubičić was a pioneer in introducing spirituality into psychiatric training at the University of Rijeka School of Medicine. He developed three specific courses based on his textbooks: Spirituality and Psychiatry, Spirituality and Suicide, and Spirituality and Depression. He is also currently working on a global first-of-its-kind project titled PTSD and Spirituality, a collaboration between the University Psychiatric Clinic and the University of Freiburg Faculty of Theology. Plans are already underway to open a spiritual psychiatry outpatient clinic at the University Psychiatric Clinic, supported by a solid scientific foundation established through university textbooks and curriculum at the University of Rijeka School of Medicine."

You can read the full article here.

On another note, I wouldn't call that guy's posts trolling. Either he doesn't quite grasp the reality of depression, or he just holds a different perspective based on his own logic. Trolling is inherently malicious; it isn't just someone being stubborn about their opinion.

Gary James88 said:That would be too much, honestly. Every single group would start demanding their own little corner, which makes no sense—especially since those views don't hold much weight in psychology as a science anyway.

They don't, they absolutely don't. It’s just that over on the Psychology subforum, things are a total free-for-all. Any half-witted idiot can wander in there and spout whatever nonsense they want without any consequences. They can insult you, stigmatize people, launch attacks, or label anyone they disagree with as some kind of possessed lunatic—yeah, it all happens. If you don't believe me, go ahead and ask the moderators... ☕

Gary James88, I’m telling you right now, this self-proclaimed "expert" is straight-up insulting us. This guy doesn't know the first thing about psychiatry or what it actually feels like to live with depression as a real disease. And don't even start with me about different schools of thought—don't try to pull some quotes out of thin air to justify yourself, because that crap doesn't fly with me. I’m asking you point-blank: are you actually going to step in and sanction the spreading of these prejudices against people struggling with depression, and this constant bashing of pharmacotherapy and psychotherapy, or are you just going to sit there?

Has this kind of rhetoric seriously become the new normal on this subforum???

... sure, easy enough to talk about Jesus, but did anyone actually go see Dr. Anthony?

Man, just do us all a favor and lock this absolute garbage "thread" already...

☕ 🙂

Robert Collins2, chill out, seriously. It’s pretty obvious this place is a free-for-all where anyone suffering from a chronic lack of brains or basic education can just spout nonsense, and if you dare to call them out, you're told you're being too harsh because these geniuses have a right to "their opinion" and we shouldn't bruise their delicate little egos.

Which hospitals are actually using the methods the OP is pushing here? Just let me know so I can make sure to stay far away from them, obviously.
Besides, there's a huge difference between an actual hospital and some "medical facility," or between a real doctor and someone playing dress-up; just because something is being peddled in American hospitals doesn't mean it's gospel or even makes any sense.

In some places, they even let priests perform exorcisms—can we just check that off as a legitimate psychological treatment for depression or whatever else, since certain "doctors" are apparently okay with it?
All in the name of patient care, right? Or maybe just to feed the delusions of people who actually believe this stuff!

And hey, mods, stop picking on Robert Collins2 for once and maybe try actually addressing the people you constantly ignore who spend all their time terrorizing everyone else! I don't even need to name names, you guys know exactly who I'm talking about, yet you just sit there and do nothing.

I don't see anyone being personally attacked here. On this forum, people have always been free to critique pharmacotherapy and psychotherapy just like any other approach or model—including theories on the causes of mental health issues, whether they're scientific or otherwise—as long as the arguments hold up.

Gary James88 said:I don't see anyone being personally attacked here. On this forum, people have always been free to critique pharmacotherapy and psychotherapy just like any other approach or model—including theories on the causes of mental health issues, whether they're scientific or otherwise—as long as the arguments hold up.

🙄

Look, did you even read what they wrote about those of us struggling with depression???

I'm sorry, but I feel like I'm being personally targeted here. When you frame my diagnosis within the context of being locked up in institutions, being handled like a child, or being unable to communicate with people, it feels like you're saying what am I supposed to be because of my diagnosis??? A caged animal? Give me a break, man!

Quote : Cocaine Nights, this spirituality you're rambling about has absolutely nothing to do with what pavaogc is actually talking about.
The guy doesn't have a clue what he's saying, and honestly, that article you dropped as an example? It doesn't even touch the surface of pavaogc's "philosophy."

For crying out loud, this guy can't even tell the difference between a heated moment and actual psychosis. I mean, what are we even doing here? Shut this garbage thread down already! ☕

I seriously can't stand people using religion to meddle in medical issues.

Let's put it this way: if your kid has leukemia, instead of taking them to a doctor to get actual treatment, you just leave them sitting in a dark room because you're too embarrassed by how sick they are.

Does that sound sane to you? And since when did it become okay to attack someone who is dealing with a health crisis?? Is the person even at fault?? AM I THE ONE AT FAULT HERE????

I’d usually worry about being rude, but honestly... I don't care. You guys are just narrow-minded.🙂

👋 👋

edit:
If I get banned for saying this, then this whole PDF can go straight to hell.