Seeking forgiveness

People, do you actually know how... or even if it's possible... to just forgive yourselves first?

hollowtinker18 said:People, do you actually know how... or even if it's possible... to just forgive yourselves first?

*sighs deeply*😁😁

And "forgive, but don't forget"—honestly, I think that might be one of the most nonsensical things anyone has ever said. Maybe I’m just missing something, but it doesn't click for me.

If I still remember what happened and it still hurts, then how on earth can it be considered forgiven? If I remember it and it carries zero weight, then it clearly never mattered to begin with. And if it truly didn't matter, I probably wouldn't even be thinking about it.

I struggle to wrap my head around what forgiveness is even supposed to look like. Is it just saying, "You screwed me over, but whatever, I'm not going to let it get to me because I'm a bigger person"?

I don't know. Some people just don't deserve forgiveness. For me, instead of feeling forgiving, I just feel pure disgust. Usually, I just walk away, and if I'm lucky, those feelings eventually fade with time.

Zachary Mendoza2 said:Spiritual peace isn't granted for free; it comes from the realization that you did what was necessary.

Regarding my own view on forgiveness, someone who has committed a serious offense must:

1. Acknowledge their mistake.
2. Offer a sincere apology for the harm caused.
3. Make restitution to those affected.
4. Provide an assurance that it won't happen again.

Steps 3 and 4 aren't always feasible, but steps 1 and 2 are within reach. Once a person fulfills these—doing everything they possibly can—they may receive genuine forgiveness. Otherwise, forgiveness is merely amnesty, which is just giving someone permission to repeat their wrongdoing.

As for the original poster, I don't quite follow the logic regarding forgiving oneself when someone else has wronged us. 🤷

I meant it more indirectly.
Forgiving yourself for not being stronger in that moment—for letting the harassment happen or for how you carried yourself, simply because you didn't have any other choice at the time.
It’s less about "forgiveness" and more about deciding that next time, I'll show myself a little more grace.

Paul Morales3 said:I meant it more indirectly.
Forgiving yourself for not being stronger in that moment—for letting the harassment happen or for how you carried yourself, simply because you didn't have any other choice at the time.
It’s less about "forgiveness" and more about deciding that next time, I'll show myself a little more grace.

I see. That makes sense in the context of a child. It is natural for children to believe they are at fault when someone close to them treats them poorly. A mature adult should have a much clearer understanding of where the blame actually lies.
Furthermore, an adult's conclusion after enduring such treatment wouldn't be "I'll love myself more next time," but rather, "I'll be smarter next time."

Zachary Mendoza2 said:I see. That makes sense in the context of a child. It is natural for children to believe they are at fault when someone close to them treats them poorly. A mature adult should have a much clearer understanding of where the blame actually lies.
Furthermore, an adult's conclusion after enduring such treatment wouldn't be "I'll love myself more next time," but rather, "I'll be smarter next time."

I was actually talking about stuff that happens once you're an adult. 🙈

But I hear you, next time I'll be smarter... and I won't let anyone use me as a punching bag for their own insecurities. 🙂

Personally, I don't hold much against others—I don't really have anyone to blame or forgive, at least not regarding the things that happened back when I was a bit more... immature. I’ve simply reached the conclusion that people are just animals, much like myself, and we shouldn't expect anything different from the collective whole. In the end, we are just what we are.

There are a few things from my distant past that I can't quite let go of, but that was a lifetime ago; I barely even recall them now. It isn't really about forgiveness at that point—it's more a matter of pure resentment, though there isn't much left to actually forgive anyway.

It's only myself that I find impossible to forgive. A day can be perfectly fine—truly decent—and then I'll stumble upon some memory of something I said or did, and suddenly there's this eruption of shame and self-loathing so intense it leaves me miserable for hours... sometimes an entire day, or even until tomorrow, depending on how many years have passed since the incident—five years, ten years, longer...

I don't understand what there would be to forgive in others; I know I am the one responsible for everything. There is no metric for forgiveness when you are fully aware of every single step and every passing thought—knowing exactly where I could have consciously corrected my course or simply chosen a different path—yet, I didn't.
I have no excuses, and I cannot change any of it.

It creates this sensation... almost as if you want to tear your own bones out with your bare hands.

I was initially drawn to this thread by the title, but it’s actually the polar opposite of my own struggle. My problem isn't about finding peace—it's about how you ever earn forgiveness from others? How do you secure genuine absolution from the people you've hurt? And here's the kicker: even if you manage to pull that off, what then? How do you ever forgive yourself for putting them through it in the first place, whether those moments are long buried or still fresh? They might find relief in an apology and move on, but me? I don't think I'll ever be able to.

Zachary Mendoza2 said:If someone offers an apology, it means they feel remorse for their actions. It shows that admitting a mistake isn't just empty words. If they simply admit they were wrong without apologizing, it might imply, "I'm sorry I got caught." A lack of apology also suggests a lack of concern for those hurt. As for a "guarantee," one could consider a person's word, assuming they value their own honor.
In short, when I hold a grudge, I don't forgive without the full package—everything listed above. Otherwise, what is the purpose of the grievance?

Are you actually being serious right now?
You aren't being critical because you have some grand agenda; you're just reacting because your gut is telling you something feels off.

Then again... you just sort of sense when you're ready to push forward. At least that's how it works for me. I don't really bother checking off a list of requirements to decide if I'm done. 🤷
What does an apology even mean anymore? You see people handing them out like candy every five seconds, almost like they're just filler words to smooth things over, but where’s the actual credibility? It’s all about what happens after the words are spoken. Words carry weight, sure, but on their own? They don't amount to much of anything.

placidwolf27 said:Personally, I don't hold much against others—I don't really have anyone to blame or forgive, at least not regarding the things that happened back when I was a bit more... immature. I’ve simply reached the conclusion that people are just animals, much like myself, and we shouldn't expect anything different from the collective whole. In the end, we are just what we are.

There are a few things from my distant past that I can't quite let go of, but that was a lifetime ago; I barely even recall them now. It isn't really about forgiveness at that point—it's more a matter of pure resentment, though there isn't much left to actually forgive anyway.

It's only myself that I find impossible to forgive. A day can be perfectly fine—truly decent—and then I'll stumble upon some memory of something I said or did, and suddenly there's this eruption of shame and self-loathing so intense it leaves me miserable for hours... sometimes an entire day, or even until tomorrow, depending on how many years have passed since the incident—five years, ten years, longer...

I don't understand what there would be to forgive in others; I know I am the one responsible for everything. There is no metric for forgiveness when you are fully aware of every single step and every passing thought—knowing exactly where I could have consciously corrected my course or simply chosen a different path—yet, I didn't.
I have no excuses, and I cannot change any of it.

It creates this sensation... almost as if you want to tear your own bones out with your bare hands.

Guilt? Not really.

Quincy:

I know exactly what I’m doing and exactly how I could fix it, but I just can't bring myself to actually change anything. It's frustratingly predictable. I've got no excuses, and there isn't a damn thing I can do to change it.

You just can't.
The only thing you can actually do is just admit that you messed up.
It’s tough, but there isn't any other way to play it.

Sarah Wood8 said:Are you seriously such a massive advocate for the idea that people are so helpless and clueless that they have to rely on pills and therapy just to handle every little thing that happens to them in life?

Not at all—I spent my whole life being belittled, which basically nuked my self-esteem. There were other factors involved too, like having the right temperament for mental health struggles. It really comes down to how you process things, especially if those experiences drag on for years and wear you down—leaving you feeling either too fragile or, as you might say, too dim to figure out how to help yourself. It isn't some black-and-white issue.

Paul Morales3 said:I'm with you on all counts. Reaching that point of peace is damn near impossible when you're still stuck in the thick of regret, grief, and pure, unadulterated fury. Once you actually face those feelings head-on, that's when the gears start turning and you can finally move past that standstill.🙂

I forgot to mention one thing earlier. I think there's real value in making sure the person who crossed the line knows exactly what they did.
Tell them how much it sucked and lay out everything that matters to you. It won't change the facts of what happened, but it might provide some relief for your own sake.
And who knows? Maybe it'll actually hit them that they acted like a jerk and they'll feel some genuine remorse. Not that we need them begging for forgiveness—we don't owe them anything—but it's about them finally seeing themselves clearly for who they really were.

Look, I've been stuck in this exact same mess, so I figured I'd chime in...
I'm dealing with this whole thing with my parents right now. It's a total disaster.
Not to drag this out too much... but my childhood was absolutely wrecked. We're talking daily beatings—at best a slap or something, but usually way more brutal than that. And actual conversation? Never happened. Never. Just non-stop screaming 24/7. You spill a glass of water and you get chewed out for an hour straight before getting smacked so hard you're basically shaking in your boots. The physical stuff lasted until I was 15, and the "communication" part? Yeah, that's still going strong (and hey, I'm pushing 40 now).
All you ever hear is how useless you are and all that crap. If things aren't done exactly their way, then nothing is okay... of course, they're always right and they know everything (even though they clearly don't know jack). Everything boils down to the most primitive insults and stuff like that... and my mom just sits there watching from the sidelines, occasionally chiming in to tell me I'm trash, a brat, or a piece of garbage... basically every horrible thing a kid could ever wish they didn't hear. 😢
So, how am I supposed to just walk up to them now and say, "Hey, you guys messed up and you weren't okay"? How?
Truthfully... it would feel better, sure, but at what cost? Or would I just be piling another weight onto my own head?
And it's never gonna click for them. Never. Because they just don't get it. And they don't even try to understand...
I tried once to let my mom know that I'm fully aware of everything that went down. 😂 Mission: Impossible... Obviously, she didn't buy it. Said I was imagining things. Said I deserved the beatings I got. Like, seriously!! What am I even supposed to talk to her about? And don't even get me started on him. ☕
Once, I told him how little emotional support he's given me in my life (and by "support," I mean through yelling and crying... this was about a year and a half ago)... and the guy just looks at me and goes: "What emotions? What are you even talking about?" (while screaming, naturally).
So yeah, that's where I'm at... I really don't think there's any point in going any further. 😢

Sandra Parker3 said:Are you actually being serious right now?
You aren't being critical because you have some grand agenda; you're just reacting because your gut is telling you something feels off.

Then again... you just sort of sense when you're ready to push forward. At least that's how it works for me. I don't really bother checking off a list of requirements to decide if I'm done. 🤷
What does an apology even mean anymore? You see people handing them out like candy every five seconds, almost like they're just filler words to smooth things over, but where’s the actual credibility? It’s all about what happens after the words are spoken. Words carry weight, sure, but on their own? They don't amount to much of anything.

Guilt? Not really.

Quincy:

I know exactly what I’m doing and exactly how I could fix it, but I just can't bring myself to actually change anything. It's frustratingly predictable. I've got no excuses, and there isn't a damn thing I can do to change it.

You just can't.
The only thing you can actually do is just admit that you messed up.
It’s tough, but there isn't any other way to play it.

No, it is just that I rarely take things that deeply to heart. I understand your perspective when your intuition tells you something is off, and I respect that, but I operate differently. I approach these matters very rationally and do not allow anger or any other negative emotion to dictate my actions. I pause, I cool down, and if necessary, I distance myself from the person until I can review the situation with a clear head. If my logic aligns with my anger, then I act "angrily," as I previously described. That only happens when I conclude that the person acted out of malice or total disregard for others. Otherwise, if I am merely upset, I wait for the feeling to pass and do not make a scene.
I agree with everything you said regarding credibility, but I still insist on following certain social formalities. It is easier for me to navigate life that way, and it means something to me when someone makes the effort to follow those norms. There doesn't necessarily have to be deep sincerity behind it, but following that form teaches us politeness, which is essentially caring for others. For instance, if I hurt someone through carelessness, I say "I'm sorry." Even if it is just an empty phrase, if you repeat it a million times, you learn to be careful—and you learn that you have to ask for forgiveness every time you slip up, so it becomes more efficient to just be careful. Eventually, it becomes second nature. You start feeling good when you are mindful, and ultimately, whether it is sincere or not, you develop a sense of care for others.

I’m no saint who’s going to hand out forgiveness to every person on the street. In my view, people ought to live with the consequences of their own actions. If that means you never speak to them again—fine by me.

Figure out what actually helps you move on—whether it's an apology from them or some form of restitution... then tell that person exactly what they need to do. Let them make it right. If they refuse? Cut them loose. It’s that simple.

Sandra Parker3 said:Are you actually being serious right now?
You aren't being critical because you have some grand agenda; you're just reacting because your gut is telling you something feels off.

Then again... you just sort of sense when you're ready to push forward. At least that's how it works for me. I don't really bother checking off a list of requirements to decide if I'm done. 🤷
What does an apology even mean anymore? You see people handing them out like candy every five seconds, almost like they're just filler words to smooth things over, but where’s the actual credibility? It’s all about what happens after the words are spoken. Words carry weight, sure, but on their own? They don't amount to much of anything.

Guilt? Not really.

Quincy:

I know exactly what I’m doing and exactly how I could fix it, but I just can't bring myself to actually change anything. It's frustratingly predictable. I've got no excuses, and there isn't a damn thing I can do to change it.

You just can't.
The only thing you can actually do is just admit that you messed up.
It’s tough, but there isn't any other way to play it.

No...

It's more about shame, contempt, and a deep-seated hatred for oneself...

Sandra Parker3 said:Are you actually being serious right now?
You aren't being critical because you have some grand agenda; you're just reacting because your gut is telling you something feels off.

Then again... you just sort of sense when you're ready to push forward. At least that's how it works for me. I don't really bother checking off a list of requirements to decide if I'm done. 🤷
What does an apology even mean anymore? You see people handing them out like candy every five seconds, almost like they're just filler words to smooth things over, but where’s the actual credibility? It’s all about what happens after the words are spoken. Words carry weight, sure, but on their own? They don't amount to much of anything.

Guilt? Not really.

Quincy:

I know exactly what I’m doing and exactly how I could fix it, but I just can't bring myself to actually change anything. It's frustratingly predictable. I've got no excuses, and there isn't a damn thing I can do to change it.

You just can't.
The only thing you can actually do is just admit that you messed up.
It’s tough, but there isn't any other way to play it.

But that part—the acceptance—is already understood; otherwise, I wouldn't even care. If I didn't feel like I had failed, none of this would carry any weight at all...

Paul Morales3 said:How do you actually forgive someone after they've hurt you?

I’m talking about the heavy stuff here, not just petty grievances.
We all carry some kind of deep-seated resentment—whether it's toward a spouse, a parent, a friend, or ultimately, ourselves. So, let's keep this discussion broad.

I’ll lay out a few steps that I find helpful, and then you guys can jump in with your own thoughts or corrections.

1) You have to purge the physical sensation of it—the pain, the grief, the rage. Cry, scream, break a plate if you have to... just get it out.

2) Try to internalize the fact that it wasn't your fault, and perhaps realize that you should actually feel some pity for them because of how they chose to act toward you.

3) Once you accept that, you pull yourself out of the depression, learn the lesson from the experience, promise yourself you won't let it happen again, and try to see the silver lining... theoretically, forgiveness and moving on should follow. But that’s where the real struggle starts.

Because how can you ever truly know if you’ve forgiven someone when, deep down, you’re still holding onto that grudge?

How do you live with that weight?

Personally, I tend to hold onto the idea that everything in life eventually comes back around. In that sense, I don't really go looking for revenge.😁

If you want any kind of spiritual peace, forgiving others and yourself is one of the most vital steps you can take. So, for that reason, let's hear it...

you know you've moved on when you run into that person and it actually triggers, say, pleasant feelings. Like, you're just glad you saw them because of what you shared. (Then again, it’s hard to be deeply hurt by someone you didn't care about much. It's usually the people who actually mattered.)

Forgiveness is easy to live with; resentment is heavy. You probably already know that—you know how much it weighs you down. You have to forgive just for your own sake. But there's no magic formula. You have to work through a lot of things internally before you get there. Forgiving yourself (like, how could I have been such an idiot?) and forgiving others, which means realizing you could have been the one messing up too. And let's face it, I've messed up with plenty of people who cared about me.

Paul Morales3 said:How do you actually forgive someone after they've hurt you?

I’m talking about the heavy stuff here, not just petty grievances.
We all carry some kind of deep-seated resentment—whether it's toward a spouse, a parent, a friend, or ultimately, ourselves. So, let's keep this discussion broad.

I’ll lay out a few steps that I find helpful, and then you guys can jump in with your own thoughts or corrections.

1) You have to purge the physical sensation of it—the pain, the grief, the rage. Cry, scream, break a plate if you have to... just get it out.

2) Try to internalize the fact that it wasn't your fault, and perhaps realize that you should actually feel some pity for them because of how they chose to act toward you.

3) Once you accept that, you pull yourself out of the depression, learn the lesson from the experience, promise yourself you won't let it happen again, and try to see the silver lining... theoretically, forgiveness and moving on should follow. But that’s where the real struggle starts.

Because how can you ever truly know if you’ve forgiven someone when, deep down, you’re still holding onto that grudge?

How do you live with that weight?

Personally, I tend to hold onto the idea that everything in life eventually comes back around. In that sense, I don't really go looking for revenge.😁

If you want any kind of spiritual peace, forgiving others and yourself is one of the most vital steps you can take. So, for that reason, let's hear it...

Ha, I follow that logic too. But while you're waiting for karma to strike, you haven't actually forgiven them. The reality is, a truly happy person won't screw you over; that kind of behavior always comes back to haunt you.

placidwolf27 said:No...

It's more about shame, contempt, and a deep-seated hatred for oneself...

But that part—the acceptance—is already understood; otherwise, I wouldn't even care. If I didn't feel like I had failed, none of this would carry any weight at all...

alright, though it feels a bit much—calling it hatred is probably an exaggeration, but still...

well, that’s pretty much accepted by now; otherwise, I wouldn't even care, and if I didn't think I messed up, it wouldn't mean much to me either

fair enough... I just don't think there's anything special you can actually do

some people will say: forgive yourself, but honestly, I don't think that's even possible (just my two cents), because I can't forgive myself when I can't turn back the clock, and besides, this whole idea of self-forgiveness... it doesn't mean much when it carries so little weight in how I view other people's mistakes
I just don't believe in any kind of "special" forgiveness
you just move forward... if you can...

you live with it, push it to the side, and try to "forget" (emphasis on the quotes!); time might dull the edge of the feeling, but you never truly forget...

I used to avoid this topic:

ambermason16 said:I was initially drawn to this thread by the title, but it’s actually the polar opposite of my own struggle. My problem isn't about finding peace—it's about how you ever earn forgiveness from others? How do you secure genuine absolution from the people you've hurt? And here's the kicker: even if you manage to pull that off, what then? How do you ever forgive yourself for putting them through it in the first place, whether those moments are long buried or still fresh? They might find relief in an apology and move on, but me? I don't think I'll ever be able to.

I wouldn't frame the dilemma quite that way, though the gist is basically there

but what happens when the people you "hurt along the way" aren't even around anymore? 😢 🤷

Jerry Martinez5 said:you know you've moved on when you run into that person and it actually triggers, say, pleasant feelings. Like, you're just glad you saw them because of what you shared. (Then again, it’s hard to be deeply hurt by someone you didn't care about much. It's usually the people who actually mattered.)

Forgiveness is easy to live with; resentment is heavy. You probably already know that—you know how much it weighs you down. You have to forgive just for your own sake. But there's no magic formula. You have to work through a lot of things internally before you get there. Forgiving yourself (like, how could I have been such an idiot?) and forgiving others, which means realizing you could have been the one messing up too. And let's face it, I've messed up with plenty of people who cared about me.

Ha, I follow that logic too. But while you're waiting for karma to strike, you haven't actually forgiven them. The reality is, a truly happy person won't screw you over; that kind of behavior always comes back to haunt you.

I'll let you guys know how it goes if I actually work up the nerve to grab coffee with them.

In my view, forgiveness is less about a conscious decision and more about a complex interplay of emotions. There are certain individuals who simply cannot forgive, even for the most trivial slights. Usually, these are people driven by an intense sense of pride, arrogance, or stubbornness; their very temperament prevents them from extending grace. I am not suggesting they are inherently at fault for this inability—certain transgressions are genuinely difficult to overlook—but rather that the true essence of forgiveness lies in liberating ourselves. We forgive not to release the person who hurt us, but to set our own spirits free. Then there are those who struggle to forgive out of pure fear. They worry that if they let go, they might be vulnerable to being wounded by that same person again. Consequently, they cling to resentment as a sort of internal alarm system, keeping that bitterness tucked away just to remind themselves of what happened.
On the other end of the spectrum, you have the carefree souls—those inherently kind people who move past offenses almost instantly. They get hurt, yet they brush it off with remarkable ease. My observation is that these individuals often end up being the ones most frequently wounded throughout their lives, precisely because they accept things as they come without much defense.
Ultimately, I believe we should always strive to forgive, though we must never mistake that for forgetting. By forgiving, we lighten our own souls; we approach life with more fluidity and interact with those around us without being weighed down by tension or a sour mood. However, I also maintain that even after we have forgiven someone who caused us significant harm, we ought to distance ourselves from them. Even if we manage to forgive a major betrayal, rebuilding trust is a different matter entirely and often impossible. Therefore, when facing the choice to forgive, we should focus on ourselves and our long-term well-being. This shouldn't be decided in the heat of the moment when the sting is fresh and negativity is overwhelming, but rather by considering what that act of grace will ultimately bring to our lives and how it will shape our peace of mind moving forward.