The bank is taking my entire paycheck...

silvergull45 said:In some places, there’s this rule where they can't just seize a single property from you, like your apartment or whatever. But looking at these proposals, I guess it probably won't be like that here in the USA.

I’m curious too—where exactly?
There isn't some universal rule for this. If a bankruptcy trustee decides that selling your current home right now wouldn't be as effective as waiting two years to get a better price for the creditors, they might let you stay put. But looking at the current direction of the law, I don't see any reason why a primary residence would be exempt from the bankruptcy estate. Usually, it ends up being the only asset left for creditors to claw back...

The whole point of personal bankruptcy is supposed to satisfy creditors as much as possible without stripping away your basic dignity or ability to survive, though those terms are always a bit subjective...

Jamie Newman5 said:Nobody is stripping you of anything if they're seizing an apartment that was used as collateral for the money you borrowed. Owning property isn't a basic survival requirement.
The whole point of these "don't strip them to the bone" regulations is about survival. And looking at your current finances, that apartment is a luxury—something you couldn't afford anyway...☕

It's exactly this kind of mindset that makes personal bankruptcy laws necessary in the first place.

Man, you totally missed my point—I guess I wasn't clear enough. I'm talking about my specific situation here. My plan is basically to pay off a condo loan in cash. Then, grab a second one with a mortgage, using the rent from that to cover the payments. Or, maybe it's smarter to take out an unsecured loan with a massive deposit, or a few different personal loans to buy another unit. In that scenario, my monthly paycheck would be slammed by huge payments—like, over two-thirds of my income gone—but since I'd have rental income covering the debt, I'd be fine. Basically, I'd have extra cash coming in under the table, and the goal is to avoid a mortgage if possible while keeping most of my check... Yeah, those are the moves I'm looking at.

Frank White said:Man, you totally missed my point—I guess I wasn't clear enough. I'm talking about my specific situation here. My plan is basically to pay off a condo loan in cash. Then, grab a second one with a mortgage, using the rent from that to cover the payments. Or, maybe it's smarter to take out an unsecured loan with a massive deposit, or a few different personal loans to buy another unit. In that scenario, my monthly paycheck would be slammed by huge payments—like, over two-thirds of my income gone—but since I'd have rental income covering the debt, I'd be fine. Basically, I'd have extra cash coming in under the table, and the goal is to avoid a mortgage if possible while keeping most of my check... Yeah, those are the moves I'm looking at.

If I'm following you, that second property is strictly an investment play. But those only really pay off when you're betting on real estate prices skyrocketing, and that just isn't happening right now...☕

I honestly don't see how they'd cover a mortgage payment just with rent. In a best-case scenario, maybe they'd hit half or two-thirds of the monthly payment, but that's about it.

silvergull45 said:I think I saw something about that on a forum once, though I can't quite remember which thread it was. If you end up digging into which specific countries they're talking about, let me know what you find!

Wait, so now I'm supposed to be the one doing the research for you?

I don't really follow... 😂

So, what, dragons are just flying around us too? I saw a documentary on History Channel once that claimed something similar...

account
The rent from both units could theoretically cover the mortgage on a single apartment under perfect circumstances...
but honestly, that's a massive stretch because there's always that risk where one unit—or even both—ends up sitting empty without any tenants...

and you might actually make more money just putting your cash in a high-yield savings account at Chase than you would dealing with the headache of being a landlord...

I'm really not in the mood to go digging for this. If you're so curious, just look it up yourself. Is that clear enough for you? Anyway, looks like you've got plenty of free time on your hands, "entrepreneur."

silvergull45 said:I'm really not in the mood to go digging for this. If you're so curious, just look it up yourself. Is that clear enough for you? Anyway, looks like you've got plenty of free time on your hands, "entrepreneur."

Standard practice is to cite a source when the info is even slightly questionable. Otherwise, you just look unreliable, and your points don't mean much in a real discussion.

What kind of law would actually let you keep your apartment as a basic necessity?😕 It’s just property like anything else, and in any country, it can be seized at any time...☕

silvergull45 said:I honestly don't see how they'd cover a mortgage payment just with rent. In a best-case scenario, maybe they'd hit half or two-thirds of the monthly payment, but that's about it.

Last year, I picked up a decent used studio in Quincy—about 400 sq ft—for $45,000 plus taxes.
My monthly payment through my savings association is around $350. My contract with them wraps up at the end of the year, and I’m thinking about just paying off the loan using my savings there—might need to toss in a little extra on top. Once that's done, the place is mine clear and free, and then I can grab a second place roughly the same size for about the same price. The monthly payment should be pretty much identical. I figure I could rent it out for about $667 plus utilities. That's basically the plan. Seems doable to me.
I'd probably take out four personal loans for $10,000 each over the longest term possible. Even if I'm short by $100 a month, it wouldn't kill me...
Or, I could just buy a place using both properties as collateral. The monthly hit would be smaller, but you're still stuck with a lien... and you never know what kind of curveball life throws at you...
If things get desperate, I could always rent out both places... though I wouldn't want to since I actually like my current spot, but hey, business is business...

So, look—if I take out some extra loans and my total monthly payments end up hitting more than a third of my paycheck (roughly $0.87), can the bank actually squeeze me for more? Even with those legal limits in place meant to ensure I keep two-thirds of my income under the new laws, how does that work? I'm not trying to dodge my responsibilities here, but life happens. If things go sideways and I can't cover the installments for a few months, what's the deal?

At the end of the day, I could just grab a mortgage on the place I'm buying and roll the down payment or security deposit right into it.

Frank White said:Last year, I picked up a decent used studio in Quincy—about 400 sq ft—for $45,000 plus taxes.
My monthly payment through my savings association is around $350. My contract with them wraps up at the end of the year, and I’m thinking about just paying off the loan using my savings there—might need to toss in a little extra on top. Once that's done, the place is mine clear and free, and then I can grab a second place roughly the same size for about the same price. The monthly payment should be pretty much identical. I figure I could rent it out for about $667 plus utilities. That's basically the plan. Seems doable to me.
I'd probably take out four personal loans for $10,000 each over the longest term possible. Even if I'm short by $100 a month, it wouldn't kill me...
Or, I could just buy a place using both properties as collateral. The monthly hit would be smaller, but you're still stuck with a lien... and you never know what kind of curveball life throws at you...
If things get desperate, I could always rent out both places... though I wouldn't want to since I actually like my current spot, but hey, business is business...

You haven't been following this thread, have you?

http://forum.us/showthread.php?t=206056

Your math might hold water if everything lines up perfectly, though I personally find those odds slim. Then again, no risk, no reward. I don't know what your reserves look like or how much breathing room you actually have, but you need to account for several variables: property taxes, a dip in real estate values, wage stagnation, falling rental rates, tax hikes on landlords, job loss, or just life throwing you a curveball...

Besides, mortgage rates are high enough as it is, let alone personal loans. I fail to see the logic in trying to bridge the gap with those long-term and still expecting a profit...

Frank White said:Last year, I picked up a decent used studio in Quincy—about 400 sq ft—for $45,000 plus taxes.
My monthly payment through my savings association is around $350. My contract with them wraps up at the end of the year, and I’m thinking about just paying off the loan using my savings there—might need to toss in a little extra on top. Once that's done, the place is mine clear and free, and then I can grab a second place roughly the same size for about the same price. The monthly payment should be pretty much identical. I figure I could rent it out for about $667 plus utilities. That's basically the plan. Seems doable to me.
I'd probably take out four personal loans for $10,000 each over the longest term possible. Even if I'm short by $100 a month, it wouldn't kill me...
Or, I could just buy a place using both properties as collateral. The monthly hit would be smaller, but you're still stuck with a lien... and you never know what kind of curveball life throws at you...
If things get desperate, I could always rent out both places... though I wouldn't want to since I actually like my current spot, but hey, business is business...

Honestly? I think that's a bit too sunny of an outlook for a place that small, especially since we don't even know if the location is actually good! Just look at my situation—I'm paying this much for a 600-square-foot place that's just a two-minute walk from the subway station, it's in a great neighborhood, and it comes with a dedicated garage spot. And then I have this friend who pays nearly as much for a slightly larger unit with an extra bedroom, but she doesn't even have parking! It's all about those little details, you know?

Here’s how someone ends up living on nothing while still collecting a veteran's pension:

It basically boils down to poor money management and having all the wrong priorities.

– My biggest worry right now is the dampness in the house; I'm terrified for my kids' health. We can't even cover the heating bill at the moment because the cash just isn't there. After what Timothy was getting from his pension, we were left with about $300 because the rest was swallowed up by our own bills and those loans he had co-signed for. – explains Slobodanka Purda regarding the situation her family is facing.

Go ahead and read through the (sensible) comments.

If someone handed me a mission to take even Bill Gates's fortune and turn it into absolute pocket change—I’d pull it off without breaking a sweat.

The real issue here is that it’s incredibly hard to value money you didn't actually earn yourself—it's just handed to you on a silver platter. A perfect example would be those veteran pensions. They spend, they spend, then they pile on more debt—refusing to pay what's owed just so they can squander every cent on nonsense—all while collecting their checks and still turning around to beg for handouts from the city, the county, or the federal government.

I suppose true patriotism is shown by paying your bills and taxes—not by taking a gifted pension and somehow managing to rack up over 15 $0.00 in debt—between electricity, heating, and those nasty late fees.

shadowotter91 said:Honestly? I think that's a bit too sunny of an outlook for a place that small, especially since we don't even know if the location is actually good! Just look at my situation—I'm paying this much for a 600-square-foot place that's just a two-minute walk from the subway station, it's in a great neighborhood, and it comes with a dedicated garage spot. And then I have this friend who pays nearly as much for a slightly larger unit with an extra bedroom, but she doesn't even have parking! It's all about those little details, you know?

Look, I don't know where your place is located, but I decided to test the waters. I put my current apartment on the market and easily pulled in $250 plus utilities—well, after some hassle, maybe $300. That was back in April of last year. My place is out in the suburbs, but the commuter rail makes getting downtown a breeze. And yeah, the place is fully furnished...

1 Honestly, you'd be hard-pressed to pull that kind of cash today. And even if 2 if someone actually snatched up that apartment at that price point back THEN, it’s only temporary. They’ll be packing their bags and moving out within a few months. People who are desperate will pay a premium, but they don't stick around. I see this all the time over in Middle, which is basically a college town. I can't rent an apartment for $2,250, and it's been sitting empty for over a YEAR. Let's be real: the odds of a tenant staying long-term and consistently paying on time are slim to none. Like I’ve said before, [zajeb]go ahead and buy it; you can't go wrong[[/zajeb]]
Advice from someone who has been renting properties for 15 years...

So, my neighbor—who’s had the exact same tenants for the last two years—actually had to drop their monthly rent by about $50 the other day. Apparently, they told him they were planning on moving in with some relatives because the current rate is just getting too steep for them to manage... I guess everyone is feeling the squeeze right now with how tight things are. It’s getting really tough to find buyers, and honestly, renting out property is becoming a massive headache these days.

So, my buddies over in San Diego actually managed to negotiate their rent down by a whopping 80 bucks... They basically sat the landlord down and laid it all out, telling him straight up that they simply couldn't swing the current rate and were prepared to pack up and move out... And honestly, the guy was surprisingly reasonable about it; he looked them right in the eye and said, "Look, given the market, I'm not about to risk losing good tenants, so just tell me what you can actually afford"... and he dropped the price right then and there to match it.

It’s funny how things work out, because we’re actually looking to move ourselves very soon for that exact same reason... Our landlady is being completely inflexible about lowering our monthly payment, even though we know for a fact we could find a comparable place in this city for at least 50 to 80 dollars less than what we're paying now...

Hey Andrew Barrett4, I think Nicholas Turner has a point here. Some people just live like that, borrowing money up to their eyeballs. It’s honestly pretty sad to watch people operate on the logic of "MAYBE they'll give me a raise for $333 in six months, so let me go grab a loan from $500/month RIGHT NOW." I mean, we can't say everyone is like this, but maybe they already have a loan for $67 and they're even co-signing for $1667 (just throwing out numbers), so they aren't entirely to blame for how things turned out.

Not entirely innocent? Who exactly coerced him into signing as a co-signer 🤔

Don't get me wrong—I'm not heartless when it comes to life's hardships—but the "I was just a co-signer, it's not my fault" excuse simply doesn't hold water. Every co-signer understands the weight of what they're doing when they sign a loan agreement (or at least, they ought to; I certainly don't put my name on anything until I've read every single line)
The fact that we all acted recklessly with credit—taking out loans, upgrading everything, signing away our futures—is entirely on us, not some unforeseen act of God.