A Marxist perspective...

The modern clergy has effectively regressed to the status of the Pharisees during the era of Jesus—to the point where, based on what they stand to lose... voluntarily relinquishing that position would feel less like a career change and more like suicide.

That said, such a sweeping generalization doesn't offer much of a true perspective; it’s far too superficial...

redtinker36 said:.. well .. I don't think they'd see eye to eye anymore ..
.. what I’m getting at is .. that .. now .. we can build upon the teachings of Jesus .. and continue following his path ..

But how would that actually look in practice—how does one go about "building upon" it?

Jonathan Brooks8 said:The real question here is—what exactly do you mean when you use the term suicide...

Think about it... like something drastic... just dropping everything and finally getting to work...

Brenda Cook4 said:Think about it... like something drastic... just dropping everything and finally getting to work...

Working—say, acting like those Wall Street speculators who simply buy low and sell high—does that even qualify as actual labor?

Jonathan Brooks8 said:But how would that actually look in practice—how does one go about "building upon" it?

... so he wrote it... his entire first post is basically just about that—about what needs adding...

(.. his whole opening bit covers that half of the story that gets systematically denied, hidden, and trashed.. by the neighbors.. all just to keep those neighbors happy..)

... and the question of "how"..
.. he's been chewing on it for years.. (.. even if he hasn't tied it back to Jesus yet)..
.. and it runs through pretty much everything he writes..

.. just try picking ten random posts from different threads.. and you'll see he's always circling back to the "how"..

(.. I remember my high school sociology teacher--absolute genius.. I remember him because he'd say: "if you have five solid arguments, don't reach for a sixth one that doesn't hold water."
.. among other things..
.. hardly anyone listened to him.. barely anyone even remembered what he said.. there was a class reunion a few years back, and based on that, it seems like maybe only a couple of us actually paid attention..

.. and this was his style.. he'd walk into class and we'd just start talking..
.. then the next class, he'd ask: "what did we cover last time?" and most kids would just start yelling: "we didn't learn anything last time!"
.. "what do you mean nothing?" he'd ask..
.. and the crowd would go: "nothing.. we just talked.."

.. but for me.. he's where I learned the most interesting stuff..)

Jonathan Brooks8 said:Working—say, acting like those Wall Street speculators who simply buy low and sell high—does that even qualify as actual labor?

Oh boy... honestly, does anyone out there have a better deal than them? I mean, come on, they aren't paying a dime for anything yet, but they're selling it at top dollar and walking away clean. Where else in the galaxy can you find a business model like that? It's unreal...

Joshua Hernandez9 said:... so he wrote it... his entire first post is basically just about that—about what needs adding...

(.. his whole opening bit covers that half of the story that gets systematically denied, hidden, and trashed.. by the neighbors.. all just to keep those neighbors happy..)

... and the question of "how"..
.. he's been chewing on it for years.. (.. even if he hasn't tied it back to Jesus yet)..
.. and it runs through pretty much everything he writes..

.. just try picking ten random posts from different threads.. and you'll see he's always circling back to the "how"..

(.. I remember my high school sociology teacher--absolute genius.. I remember him because he'd say: "if you have five solid arguments, don't reach for a sixth one that doesn't hold water."
.. among other things..
.. hardly anyone listened to him.. barely anyone even remembered what he said.. there was a class reunion a few years back, and based on that, it seems like maybe only a couple of us actually paid attention..

.. and this was his style.. he'd walk into class and we'd just start talking..
.. then the next class, he'd ask: "what did we cover last time?" and most kids would just start yelling: "we didn't learn anything last time!"
.. "what do you mean nothing?" he'd ask..
.. and the crowd would go: "nothing.. we just talked.."

.. but for me.. he's where I learned the most interesting stuff..)

To be labeled an anarchist—is that really what we're calling him? Those who crucified him did so precisely because they viewed him as an anarchist, a threat to the established order—though they were fundamentally mistaken—it wasn't that he wanted to tear the system down; it was simply that the system held no interest for him... he never identified as an anarchist, nor did he seek to operate within those structures at all...

Brenda Cook4 said:Oh boy... honestly, does anyone out there have a better deal than them? I mean, come on, they aren't paying a dime for anything yet, but they're selling it at top dollar and walking away clean. Where else in the galaxy can you find a business model like that? It's unreal...

But you dodged the actual question; they ought to be generating value for themselves—would you truly characterize high-stakes stock manipulation as legitimate work? And tell me, do these speculators actually risk their own capital, or are they just playing with everyone else's money?

Jonathan Brooks8 said:But you dodged the actual question; they ought to be generating value for themselves—would you truly characterize high-stakes stock manipulation as legitimate work? And tell me, do these speculators actually risk their own capital, or are they just playing with everyone else's money?

It’s a job well done.🤷

Does a machinist at the plant use their own gear, or do they rely on the shop's equipment? What exactly does that imply?

You’re really going in circles here... would you honestly advise every priest out there to just quit their "day jobs" and pivot to day trading stocks—since that’s apparently what you consider actual work?

Jonathan Brooks8 said:To be labeled an anarchist—is that really what we're calling him? Those who crucified him did so precisely because they viewed him as an anarchist, a threat to the established order—though they were fundamentally mistaken—it wasn't that he wanted to tear the system down; it was simply that the system held no interest for him... he never identified as an anarchist, nor did he seek to operate within those structures at all...

.. honestly, I’m just sitting here waiting for the day you finally wrap your head around what some simpleton writes..

(.. though it's pretty funny watching you try so hard to respond to something that's clearly gibberish..)

.. the guy *is* an anarchist..
.. his whole existence was a systematic teardown of the machine..

.. just being someone who functions outside the rules—that's the threat..
.. even the mere idea that a person can live without that structure is a threat to the establishment—if people actually believed it..

.. that's the point.. the fact that he didn't give a damn about the system is exactly what broke it..
.. for crying out loud.. you totally missed the entire premise.. (.. again.. for the millionth time..)

Jonathan Brooks8 said:You’re really going in circles here... would you honestly advise every priest out there to just quit their "day jobs" and pivot to day trading stocks—since that’s apparently what you consider actual work?

Where exactly am I burning out? Look at how you framed that question—you've painted the stock market as some kind of "demonic" entity and nothing else...

Like I said before, managing investments is legitimate work... so, yeah...

.. look .. you're out here calling him an anarchist ..
.. he isn't .. his whole vibe just validates this entire system .. and people see right through it .. WiFi is basically the crown jewel of the internet era right now .. because the web uses it to jack up its own value

.. by acting this way, he’s basically saying .. "this system is essential" .. and that it’s messed up to kick someone out when their whole existence relies on it
.. so .. what you think is anarchism .. is actually the exact opposite
.. that thing you call "fighting for free speech" .. is really just fighting to stay inside a cage .. where actual freedom is impossible .. and there's zero logic that would allow it to exist anyway

.. Jesus is the polar opposite

.. why are you so set on working on the stock market? You could have gone into spreading viruses globally.. that’s a job too..
.. or maybe distributing cocaine.. that counts as work as well..
.. or.. hell.. just crucifying half of Jesus Christ across the world..

.. so.. why this obsession with the exchange?

redtinker36 said:.. Jesus wouldn't be a complete personality ..

.. I think Marxism is truly rooted in labor .. and it interprets social relations and man himself .. starting from his position within that labor ..
.. This doesn't have to be .. direct .. and it isn't .. because a capitalist can just as easily question his own standing .. as a class adversary .. and I believe the greatest ideas were born that way .. through the play of opposites .. yet labor remains the foundation for everything ..
.. Even our entire modern world .. stands upon .. the act of doing .. people are defined by their place .. in the world .. by human actions within the world .. amidst all that chaos of events .. driven by people ..

.. A Marxist Jesus has no grounding in labor .. he exists outside of that world ..

.. Let's say that isn't the issue .. .. let's look at something else instead ..

.. Philosophically .. Jesus is only half a personality ..

.. Well .. now this situation gets interesting .. because one man has had half of his humanity erased .. not for athletic .. but ideological reasons ..

.. The half that was left to him is .. the god of love .. who meets stone with bread ..

.. And the half that was deleted .. is anarchy .. or individualism .. being beyond the system .. beyond any regime ..
.. When he says give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's .. the unspoken continuation is .. screw them both ..

.. His .. socially unattached .. half .. was enough to drive him to the cross .. because he accepted neither his neighbors nor their gods .. .. and later .. once that half is totally .. erased .. he becomes .. the perfect guardian of the establishment ..

.. So .. his love .. stripped of his independence .. turned a .. great man .. into the ultimate coward ..
.. A coward tailored to fit every single coward .. across various neighborhoods over the last two thousand years ..

.. One last thing ..

.. I'm taking this opportunity .. to apologize to the real man .. because I held him in contempt as a coward and a piece of trash simply because that's how he was presented to me .. and I wasn't able to piece together the other half into .. a real human being .. .. because that .. certain .. coward .. just pissed me off so much ..

.. I'm taking this opportunity .. to damn all that paradise .. which took a man .. damn it .. who was almost God .. and managed to turn him into a coward .. just so it could survive .. on its own .. surviving in such a base and filthy way ..
.. May all that paradise be cursed .. and may its every seed be cursed ..

But where on earth did you get that from??😲
I think you've been typing so much lately that you've become a little careless—both intellectually and factually speaking.

Everything regarding Jesus, the entire Bible, and all holy texts can actually be distilled into just two sentences.
Everything hangs on them, including the powers that be!!
And it all starts with the first one:

Love God with all your heart 🙂

So where does this ugly addition about telling both sides to go to hell come from??🙄
---

Besides, Jesus showed us how to live through his actions rather than just his words.
He tells us and suggests to everyone: choose the cross (suffering, loss) over making compromises
with the world and its clever little calculations.
Better the cross than even the slightest concession to spiritual corruption. He wants us to finish the job of purging corruption (spiritual entropy) within ourselves to reach our original state—liberation. PERFECTION!!

Jaspers makes an excellent point that from a worldly perspective, Jesus looks absurd.

But he adds that this same world, which worships rocks on Mars, looks just as absurd when viewed from the perspective of Jesus—the embodiment of love.

The solution to the koan is:

come to me and follow me; otherwise, I cannot help you.

Jesus teaches that love is a force stronger than decay, even though it appears utterly powerless because it has renounced all aggression.

Modern systems of deception (primarily bureaucratic clericalism on one hand and blind materialism-naturalism combined with apathy and mental gymnastics on the other) do everything in their power to compromise love and ultimate truth.
These are perfect systems designed to hide the final truth, and Leontiev was right to call the modern schoolhouse a training ground for the spirit's infidelity.

That’s why Jesus says:

"I have come to reveal what has been hidden since the beginning of the world."🙂

and

Please, notice that the Gospel doesn't rebel, because light cannot spring from rebellion.
As Paul wisely noted, love does not rebel; instead, it waits patiently and endures all things.🙂

What is it waiting for?
It’s waiting for that same vibration of authentic love—that same SPARK —to be born in the one who meets the chance encounter between the rocks on Mars, the magical stone juice on Earth, and God. It holds the only reality that, even by sheer lucky chance, generates life and those 3 billion lines of digital code hidden in our DNA.🙄

Man, what a difficult and long process it is, striving toward the point of OMEGA as De Chardin taught us.

By the way, evolution is a holistic process involving both the objective and subjective dimensions of existence, because evolution moves purposefully—not randomly—toward greater external complexity and deeper internal consciousness.
....
And now, just a few little crumbs for Al to pick up... if he's still hungry...

...
...and blah blah blah 🙂

If anyone’s actually listening, then let them hear.

👋

----

Joshua Hernandez9 said:.. honestly, I’m just sitting here waiting for the day you finally wrap your head around what some simpleton writes..

(.. though it's pretty funny watching you try so hard to respond to something that's clearly gibberish..)

.. the guy *is* an anarchist..
.. his whole existence was a systematic teardown of the machine..

.. just being someone who functions outside the rules—that's the threat..
.. even the mere idea that a person can live without that structure is a threat to the establishment—if people actually believed it..

.. that's the point.. the fact that he didn't give a damn about the system is exactly what broke it..
.. for crying out loud.. you totally missed the entire premise.. (.. again.. for the millionth time..)

He’s only considered an anarchist by those who still cling to being part of the establishment... because to truly be an anarchist, one has to operate from within the system itself.
In other words, someone calling themselves an anarchist is actually working inside the machine—tearing it down using its own tools, rather than utilizing methods that exist entirely outside its reach.

Now, Jesus operates entirely outside of the system; he can't even call himself an anarchist, since he isn't even concerned with the status quo—to him, that whole structure is just a world of "living dead."

Consequently, following Jesus's path doesn't necessarily mean you're an anarchist. If you are walking that path, it’s simply the way... but if you aren't, then perhaps you could call it anarchic....

.. this whole thing about the hype is .. quite good .. actually, even better than I expected .. (.. mostly because everyone loves a little bit of praise, right?)..

by the way,

The Gospels aren't a religion, though they’ve certainly been turned into one!
At its core, esoteric Christianity is actually one of the deepest, most challenging ways of life to truly grasp and practice. It’s honestly no surprise that the bureaucratic, institutionalized version of Christianity has fractured into roughly 800 different denominations and sects—it feels like those structures just clutter the mind and distort the message.

According to the actual Gospels, salvation isn't about waiting for some static paradise or expecting Jesus to swoop in on a rocket ship to save you.
There’s no hiding, no waiting around, and no false sense of security; instead, you have to actually step onto the path and walk it.
That is how you achieve true liberation.
It happens right now, right here, and every single day is essentially judgment day.

How?

By giving everything you have. 🙂

Because there is no greater expression of love than giving of yourself—
not just physically, but metaphysically as well. 🙂

redtinker36 said:.. why are you so set on working on the stock market? You could have gone into spreading viruses globally.. that’s a job too..
.. or maybe distributing cocaine.. that counts as work as well..
.. or.. hell.. just crucifying half of Jesus Christ across the world..

.. so.. why this obsession with the exchange?

Because that’s exactly how it’s categorized—and therein lies the fundamental issue—given that BB has finally, albeit grudgingly, admitted it. In doing so, she has effectively branded herself an anti-Marxist; after all, these speculators are essentially manipulating the very surplus value that Marx identified—that specific portion of capital that isn't distributed to those who actually earned it.

We could go on forever listing examples of such "legitimate" labor—take the pharmaceutical industry, which relies entirely on the persistence of disease... or the banking sector, which thrives solely on the demand for credit... or even marketing agencies that exist just to manufacture artificial demand for things nobody actually needs... and so on.

Jonathan Brooks8 said:He’s only considered an anarchist by those who still cling to being part of the establishment... because to truly be an anarchist, one has to operate from within the system itself.
In other words, someone calling themselves an anarchist is actually working inside the machine—tearing it down using its own tools, rather than utilizing methods that exist entirely outside its reach.

Now, Jesus operates entirely outside of the system; he can't even call himself an anarchist, since he isn't even concerned with the status quo—to him, that whole structure is just a world of "living dead."

Consequently, following Jesus's path doesn't necessarily mean you're an anarchist. If you are walking that path, it’s simply the way... but if you aren't, then perhaps you could call it anarchic....

'Outside the system'? Honestly, He's just breaking what's already there...but He wants His truth to be the only one that lasts. In the end, He kicks so many people out of the circle with that elitism...the idea that 'many are called, but few are chosen.' What, is all we're supposed to say is, 'I believe in God and Jesus Christ,' and that's it?

, that whole structure is just a world of "living dead."

Can someone with that kind of mindset actually show compassion... to people... to the planet... to animals... to anyone or anything at all?

"Peoples earth with demons, hell with men,
And heaven with slaves."
Shelley