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Bank Secrecy Act regulations

Started by Jacob Long · · 👁 5 views · 14 replies

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Participants Jacob LongRonald Allenmistystag0goldentinker79Terry Davis40
Jacob Long Jacob Long Active MemberOP
88 messages
joined Oct 2007
#1 ·
What I really want to know is if there’s any way to stop banks from digging through everything—like, can we skip the whole process of showing them the entire ownership chain all the way down to the actual humans at the top?

I haven't actually sat down to read the Bank Secrecy Act myself, but the bank keeps waving it in my face to demand all this info.

The parent company is owned by another firm, which is owned by someone else, and so on... it's a massive conglomerate, so things get messy fast.

Is this kind of thing standard practice across the European Union too?
Ronald Allen Ronald Allen Active Member
160 messages
joined Oct 2010
#2 ·
Jacob Long said:What I really want to know is if there’s any way to stop banks from digging through everything—like, can we skip the whole process of showing them the entire ownership chain all the way down to the actual humans at the top?

I haven't actually sat down to read the Bank Secrecy Act myself, but the bank keeps waving it in my face to demand all this info.

The parent company is owned by another firm, which is owned by someone else, and so on... it's a massive conglomerate, so things get messy fast.

Is this kind of thing standard practice across the European Union too?

I mean, I don't think you can dodge this stuff. If there were huge loopholes like that in financial regulations, they wouldn't bother passing the laws in the first place, and banks wouldn't be able to hide behind the institutions operating under them.
And as for the European Union... yeah, I'm pretty sure it's the same deal there. They have to check all that stuff, you know, things like terrorism financing and whatever else.
mistystag0 mistystag0 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Oct 2009
#3 ·
This law was basically lifted straight from European Union regulations, so there isn't much way around it. If you actually feel like reading through it, the legislation includes specific indicators for determining risk levels. I guess it mentions that if a potential client refuses to provide their details, you have to report them to the Treasury Department's anti-money laundering division, which automatically flags them at the highest possible risk level.

The regulatory office seems just as clueless and incompetent as everyone else in the country, but they can still make your life pretty difficult regardless.

If you're dealing with a major international corporation, they surely have their Articles of Incorporation ready. Just hand those over to the bank and everything should be fine.
goldentinker79 goldentinker79 Member
23 messages
joined Nov 2003
#4 ·
Jacob Long said:What I really want to know is if there’s any way to stop banks from digging through everything—like, can we skip the whole process of showing them the entire ownership chain all the way down to the actual humans at the top?

I haven't actually sat down to read the Bank Secrecy Act myself, but the bank keeps waving it in my face to demand all this info.

The parent company is owned by another firm, which is owned by someone else, and so on... it's a massive conglomerate, so things get messy fast.

Is this kind of thing standard practice across the European Union too?

You're probably thinking about those "beneficial owner" inquiries. Look, the level of detail you're required to hand over usually stops at the first tier of actual owners. You don't typically have to peel back the second layer to show who owns *them*. Once you've identified that first level, you've checked the box. Starting January 1st of this year, you won't be able to wiggle out of this requirement at any bank—it's straight from the European Union regulations, just like they told you. If I recall correctly (though I can't say I'm 100% certain), you generally only need to list the people holding controlling stakes, like 25% or more.
Terry Davis40 Terry Davis40 Member
21 messages
joined Nov 2009
#5 ·
Jacob Long said:What I really want to know is if there’s any way to stop banks from digging through everything—like, can we skip the whole process of showing them the entire ownership chain all the way down to the actual humans at the top?

I haven't actually sat down to read the Bank Secrecy Act myself, but the bank keeps waving it in my face to demand all this info.

The parent company is owned by another firm, which is owned by someone else, and so on... it's a massive conglomerate, so things get messy fast.

Is this kind of thing standard practice across the European Union too?

Under that act, the bank isn't allowed to process any payments for a client until they have the ultimate beneficial owner data.

There's no avoiding it.
Jacob Long Jacob Long Active MemberOP
88 messages
joined Oct 2007
#6 ·
goldentinker79 said:You're probably thinking about those "beneficial owner" inquiries. Look, the level of detail you're required to hand over usually stops at the first tier of actual owners. You don't typically have to peel back the second layer to show who owns *them*. Once you've identified that first level, you've checked the box. Starting January 1st of this year, you won't be able to wiggle out of this requirement at any bank—it's straight from the European Union regulations, just like they told you. If I recall correctly (though I can't say I'm 100% certain), you generally only need to list the people holding controlling stakes, like 25% or more.

I didn't quite catch that—the US-based firm XY we're dealing with has an owner located overseas, which is a legal entity. That entity is clearly listed in the corporate records and at the bank. I showed them who owns that foreign legal entity, which turns out to be another legal entity from a different country. There's also one share held by an individual, who happens to be the director of the parent company here in the States.

So, we haven't actually reached a natural person yet, but the bank is insisting we identify a specific individual and provide their passport... is that actually right?
Jacob Long Jacob Long Active MemberOP
88 messages
joined Oct 2007
#7 ·
mistystag0 said:This law was basically lifted straight from European Union regulations, so there isn't much way around it. If you actually feel like reading through it, the legislation includes specific indicators for determining risk levels. I guess it mentions that if a potential client refuses to provide their details, you have to report them to the Treasury Department's anti-money laundering division, which automatically flags them at the highest possible risk level.

The regulatory office seems just as clueless and incompetent as everyone else in the country, but they can still make your life pretty difficult regardless.

If you're dealing with a major international corporation, they surely have their Articles of Incorporation ready. Just hand those over to the bank and everything should be fine.

😲 I didn't realize that—any idea where I can actually read the full text of that law?
mistystag0 mistystag0 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Oct 2009
#8 ·
Jacob Long said:😲 I didn't realize that—any idea where I can actually read the full text of that law?

All laws, amendments, regulations, and official government notices are typically published in the Federal Register.

Here is the specific section regarding the Bank Secrecy Act:
goldentinker79 goldentinker79 Member
23 messages
joined Nov 2003
#9 ·
Jacob Long said:I didn't quite catch that—the US-based firm XY we're dealing with has an owner located overseas, which is a legal entity. That entity is clearly listed in the corporate records and at the bank. I showed them who owns that foreign legal entity, which turns out to be another legal entity from a different country. There's also one share held by an individual, who happens to be the director of the parent company here in the States.

So, we haven't actually reached a natural person yet, but the bank is insisting we identify a specific individual and provide their passport... is that actually right?

Here you go—copied and ready.
When we’re talking about the actual beneficial owners of legal entities—and that includes all their subsidiaries, branch offices, and any other domestic or foreign subjects involved—we’re really getting into the nitty-gritty of who actually pulls the strings. It's about looking past the paperwork to find the real people behind the curtain.
When you're looking at who counts as a legal entity, think of it like this: they're treated exactly the same as a corporation or an LLC. It’s all about that official status under the law.
Basically, any individual who holds more than a 25% stake—whether that’s through direct ownership, indirect control, or holding over 25% of the voting rights—is considered a major player here. It's like when someone owns a massive chunk of a company like Apple or Ford; once you hit that threshold, you aren't just a casual investor anymore. You're officially in the spotlight.
I can't believe I'm even saying this, but you guys are absolutely right.
B) Any individual who holds significant sway over a legal entity's management or maintains control over its core financial and business decisions.
Decision made.
When you’re looking at beneficial owners—you know, those people who actually pull the strings behind other legal entities like foundations or money management trusts—it gets a little more complex. It’s not just about who’s on the paperwork; it’s about who really holds the power and the purse strings.
When you look at how they handle the cash and divvy up the funds, they’re basically viewed as:
Basically, any individual who holds more than a 25% stake in a legal entity's assets falls under this rule. Think of it like owning a quarter of a local franchise—once you hit that threshold, you're officially on the radar.
So, let’s talk about what happens to the workload if the future owners have already been picked out. It’s one of those things people often overlook during a transition. Think of it like this: imagine you’re training a new quarterback for a football team. If the coaching staff has already decided who’s taking the snaps next season, the vibe in the locker room changes instantly. You aren't just running drills anymore; you're basically handing over the playbook while the game is still in progress. If the buyers are already lined up, the day-to-day grind starts looking a little different. You might find yourself shifting from "running the show" to "preparing the handoff." It can feel a bit surreal—you're still putting in the hours, hitting the targets, and keeping the lights on, but you know you're essentially building someone else's empire. It’s like being the head chef at a restaurant when you know a new owner is moving in next month; you still want the service to be perfect, but your focus naturally shifts toward making sure everything is organized and ready for the new person to step in without tripping over the kitchen equipment.
Basically, we’re talking about any individual—or even a whole group of people—who stands to gain from a legal transaction. It’s that person or entity that actually benefits when a legal deal goes down, or specifically, the folks who hold the ultimate interest in a corporation that was set up for that very purpose.
It’s all about who actually stands to gain from the deal. Basically, if you're setting up a legal arrangement but haven't pinned down exactly which individuals or companies are going to reap the rewards yet, that's when things get interesting. It’s like trying to plan a massive blowout party at a venue in Chicago before you've even sent out the guest list—you know the event is happening, but you don't quite know who's actually walking through the door to enjoy the perks.
Think of it this way: if you’re an individual who calls the shots—whether you're doing it directly or pulling the strings from behind the scenes—and you control more than 25% of the assets in a specific deal, you're officially in the spotlight. Under the Bank Secrecy Act, that kind of ownership means you aren't just a bystandal; you're a key player that needs to be accounted for.

So, here’s the deal: you just need to follow what was mentioned above. Regarding what that user said about reporting when things get rejected—I don't think that's actually written into the law itself. It sounds more like those specific guidelines that all the institutions were handed to follow.
Look, it really all boils down to what kind of paperwork the bank is breathing down your neck for. You need to dive into your company's ownership structure—check those equity holdings and see exactly how things are laid out. Once you know who holds the cards, you'll be able to figure out which specific type of legal transaction actually applies to your situation.
goldentinker79 goldentinker79 Member
23 messages
joined Nov 2003
#10 ·
Jacob Long said:I didn't quite catch that—the US-based firm XY we're dealing with has an owner located overseas, which is a legal entity. That entity is clearly listed in the corporate records and at the bank. I showed them who owns that foreign legal entity, which turns out to be another legal entity from a different country. There's also one share held by an individual, who happens to be the director of the parent company here in the States.

So, we haven't actually reached a natural person yet, but the bank is insisting we identify a specific individual and provide their passport... is that actually right?

I honestly can't tell if that one lone share carries some special weight or if there's something specific tucked away in the Articles of Incorporation. If the documents explicitly state that this individual holds controlling interest or something similar, then yeah, you probably have to follow through. But if it's not mentioned anywhere, I think the lady at the bank is just talking nonsense.🙂
Jacob Long Jacob Long Active MemberOP
88 messages
joined Oct 2007
#11 ·
goldentinker79 said:I honestly can't tell if that one lone share carries some special weight or if there's something specific tucked away in the Articles of Incorporation. If the documents explicitly state that this individual holds controlling interest or something similar, then yeah, you probably have to follow through. But if it's not mentioned anywhere, I think the lady at the bank is just talking nonsense.🙂

That share doesn't seem special to me—honestly, it's probably just a formality in the founder's home country. The guy holding it is the director of the parent company, so he likely holds it as part of the job. 🤷🤷🤷

I pretty much know everything about the business side, though I'm not an expert on the ownership structure—not really. 🤷

They obviously know who the founder is (it's a corporation).... but that corporation is owned by another entity based overseas, and then there's that one share held by a local resident in the country where this xy firm's parent company is located—sorry, I'm repeating myself, but you get the idea...

Now the folks at the bank are digging for the ultimate owner—the third entity in the chain that owns our founder—and if it turns out to be another corporation again (which happens)... they'll keep going until they hit all the actual people with a major stake (25% or more), or a company listed on a major exchange.

I don't suspect anything shady, but owners aren't exactly eager to hand over this kind of info—if they could legally dodge the questions, they probably would.
goldentinker79 goldentinker79 Member
23 messages
joined Nov 2003
#12 ·
Jacob Long said:That share doesn't seem special to me—honestly, it's probably just a formality in the founder's home country. The guy holding it is the director of the parent company, so he likely holds it as part of the job. 🤷🤷🤷

I pretty much know everything about the business side, though I'm not an expert on the ownership structure—not really. 🤷

They obviously know who the founder is (it's a corporation).... but that corporation is owned by another entity based overseas, and then there's that one share held by a local resident in the country where this xy firm's parent company is located—sorry, I'm repeating myself, but you get the idea...

Now the folks at the bank are digging for the ultimate owner—the third entity in the chain that owns our founder—and if it turns out to be another corporation again (which happens)... they'll keep going until they hit all the actual people with a major stake (25% or more), or a company listed on a major exchange.

I don't suspect anything shady, but owners aren't exactly eager to hand over this kind of info—if they could legally dodge the questions, they probably would.

Hmm... maybe take another look at the incorporation papers, or have a lawyer check them, to see if that specific share actually grants any special voting rights that allow someone to steer the company's policy.
Also, I should mention—countries like Turkey, various offshore havens, Cuba, or a bunch of South American nations are flagged as high-risk zones, which might be why they're being so pushy. Where is the company registered? Is it a "politically exposed" entity? Like, are there any politicians hiding in the ownership structure?
If none of that applies, then grab the Bank Secrecy Act and politely ask the bankers to explain exactly why they need this. You have to be able to justify any extra paperwork to your own clients, right? It's a perfectly fair question. Once they explain, you'll know if some clerk is just misinterpreting the law or if they actually have a legitimate reason to dig deeper.
Jacob Long Jacob Long Active MemberOP
88 messages
joined Oct 2007
#13 ·
goldentinker79 said:Hmm... maybe take another look at the incorporation papers, or have a lawyer check them, to see if that specific share actually grants any special voting rights that allow someone to steer the company's policy.
Also, I should mention—countries like Turkey, various offshore havens, Cuba, or a bunch of South American nations are flagged as high-risk zones, which might be why they're being so pushy. Where is the company registered? Is it a "politically exposed" entity? Like, are there any politicians hiding in the ownership structure?
If none of that applies, then grab the Bank Secrecy Act and politely ask the bankers to explain exactly why they need this. You have to be able to justify any extra paperwork to your own clients, right? It's a perfectly fair question. Once they explain, you'll know if some clerk is just misinterpreting the law or if they actually have a legitimate reason to dig deeper.

The founding entity is from Malta, while the parent firm is based in the Netherlands. That one Maltese share belongs to a director who's a resident there, and I really don't think it carries any special weight—even the bank isn't making a thing out of it, they're just trying to trace the ownership of the Dutch side... hmm. 🙄

Even in their formal notice (though they've been hounding me in person too), they claim the info they're asking for is strictly required by the Bank Secrecy Act—and if we don't play ball, they're threatening to cut ties.

The woman at the bank told me it wouldn't necessarily mean a total shutdown, but...

🤷🤷

Looks like I'll have to pore over the actual law and maybe run it by an attorney at this rate.
goldentinker79 goldentinker79 Member
23 messages
joined Nov 2003
#14 ·
If I remember correctly, Malta sits right in that middle ground when it comes to money laundering risks. I honestly think that’s exactly why they’re giving you such a hard time. It’s like trying to drive through a construction zone—you're going to hit some bumps. You should really sit down with your Articles of Incorporation one more time and give them a thorough read-through.
Terry Davis40 Terry Davis40 Member
21 messages
joined Nov 2009
#15 ·

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