Getting access to the venue

I was wondering... if I’m visiting a restaurant or a cafe and I don't smoke, can the owner actually bar me from sitting on the patio? Like, can they insist that I move to the indoor seating just so they can save all those outdoor tables for the smokers instead...

Thanks for the help...

Henry Morris3 said:I was wondering... if I’m visiting a restaurant or a cafe and I don't smoke, can the owner actually bar me from sitting on the patio? Like, can they insist that I move to the indoor seating just so they can save all those outdoor tables for the smokers instead...

Thanks for the help...

HELL NO!!!! What, am I supposed to sit in a stuffy kitchen when it's 95 degrees outside just because I don't smoke??? Give me a break... nobody can tell you where to sit... except maybe us smokers.😢😢

shadowrider8 said:HELL NO!!!! What, am I supposed to sit in a stuffy kitchen when it's 95 degrees outside just because I don't smoke??? Give me a break... nobody can tell you where to sit... except maybe us smokers.😢😢

🤣🤣

Wait, are we back on the Legal Forum again??..😁

Zachary Collins2 said:🤣🤣

Wait, are we back on the Legal Forum again??..😁

It’s honestly fascinating to see just how far human hypocrisy can go..🙂

On a side note, why wouldn't they be able to ban you if there’s a sign clearly marking a "SMOKING SECTION" and you choose to sit there, just like there's a sign at the entrance saying "NO SMOKING"..
I don't see much of a distinction..🤷

At this rate, we might as well just put up a sign advertising "blonde bombshells only" and see how many people actually show up to the pub😁

So, what else is on the menu besides the blue-eyed crowd?
Look, at the end of the day, the owner has every right to call the shots in their own establishment, even if those calls end up being a total disaster for their bottom line.

hollowtrucker77 said:So, what else is on the menu besides the blue-eyed crowd?
Look, at the end of the day, the owner has every right to call the shots in their own establishment, even if those calls end up being a total disaster for their bottom line.

🤣

Following your logic, a business owner could decide that murder is perfectly fine on their premises, and you’d just walk away scot-free if you killed someone there. Not how it works. Federal and state laws still apply inside any building in the US.
By that reasoning, if an owner decides that assaulting a child is allowed in their shop, then property rights somehow make it okay. Property rights aren't some magic shield against basic human decency or the law.

Henry Morris3 said:I was wondering... if I’m visiting a restaurant or a cafe and I don't smoke, can the owner actually bar me from sitting on the patio? Like, can they insist that I move to the indoor seating just so they can save all those outdoor tables for the smokers instead...

Thanks for the help...

Maybe they can if you play along, but legally, they can't. Honestly, just print this thread out and show them, or maybe just pretend you didn't hear them. If things get physical, call the cops. Depending on how far they take it, they could face misdemeanor charges or even criminal ones, and they'd likely owe you damages for the hassle.

crimsonraven17 said:At this rate, we might as well just put up a sign advertising "blonde bombshells only" and see how many people actually show up to the pub😁

Exactly... Take NYC, for example. There’s no way you can just walk into any club you feel like. Every entrance has a couple of massive bouncers standing guard, and if you don't fit their specific "vibe," you're going to be getting very intimate with the front door. The advantage always goes to the blonde girls with the enhanced assets; everyone else is basically an afterthought.
At the end of the day, the owner picks the clientele that keeps the registers ringing; he doesn't need background extras.
☕

😁

I suspect the original poster was actually referring to this...

The debate migrated over from the news forums—it’s essentially about whether there's a legal way to ensure smokers get terrace seating (rather than non-smokers moving inside or just staying away altogether).

The core issue is that a cafe owner isn't going to kick a non-smoker off a patio just because they don't smoke—they'll do it because that specific table was reserved for someone else, regardless of who that person happens to be.

Ultimately—and I mean this sincerely—the business owner has every right to manage their space that way.

Look, I don't even smoke, but I’d be the first one heading inside. Sitting outside when it’s 90 degrees out is just masochism; I want that AC hit. So, honestly, I couldn't care less about the smoking aspect.
It’s actually pretty fascinating how people suddenly transform into legal experts overnight. They act like they have a PhD in the rulebook, and everyone starts throwing out these half-baked theories. This situation is no different.

He could easily book a table—just label it "Reserved" instead of "Smokers Only." I mean, you never see a sign specifically saying "Reserved for Wedding Party," right?

Most of these suggestions are just pipe dreams that wouldn't work in the real world anyway. But hey, if someone wants to waste their time testing them, let them. At the end of the day, he's within his rights...

Henry Morris3 said:I was wondering... if I’m visiting a restaurant or a cafe and I don't smoke, can the owner actually bar me from sitting on the patio? Like, can they insist that I move to the indoor seating just so they can save all those outdoor tables for the smokers instead...

Thanks for the help...

If we draw a parallel to how certain club owners might deny entry based on age—say, refusing anyone under 21—or dress codes, such as banning guys in tracksuits and sneakers... it’s highly probable they can do the same here...🤷
Though I haven't looked up the specific legal precedent for this exact scenario...😬

On the other hand, I am curious about the logistics of how they actually intend to enforce a "smokers only" patio policy... 🤔
What happens if a mixed group arrives together?

Or take my own situation, for instance... 😁--say I sit down on the patio, pull out a pack, and realize I don't actually feel like smoking right now, though the urge might strike later; normally, I'll have one with a beer outside, but I could just as easily abstain...😁
Or perhaps I light half a cigarette just for the sake of it, then spend the next hour or two sipping a drink without touching another one?
Will they really stand up and demand I vacate my seat for a smoker at that point? 🙂

🍿

Casey Campbell said:Maybe they can if you play along, but legally, they can't. Honestly, just print this thread out and show them, or maybe just pretend you didn't hear them. If things get physical, call the cops. Depending on how far they take it, they could face misdemeanor charges or even criminal ones, and they'd likely owe you damages for the hassle.

So, my advice? Go ahead and politely ask for the formal complaint log at the counter and make sure you write everything down clearly...
just in case they try to be difficult and refuse to give it to you—though I wouldn't go calling the Department of Labor too early!
01/6503-117
01/6503-014, and then we'll see how fast they change their tune when they realize you mean business...😁

Back in the day, I had this issue with a few local coffee shops where they'd suddenly decide they weren't serving coffee after 8 or 9 PM on weekends... but after I 😉made my presence known
, those same places were happily brewing coffee until midnight!

coastaltrucker33 said:So, my advice? Go ahead and politely ask for the formal complaint log at the counter and make sure you write everything down clearly...
just in case they try to be difficult and refuse to give it to you—though I wouldn't go calling the Department of Labor too early!
01/6503-117
01/6503-014, and then we'll see how fast they change their tune when they realize you mean business...😁

Back in the day, I had this issue with a few local coffee shops where they'd suddenly decide they weren't serving coffee after 8 or 9 PM on weekends... but after I 😉made my presence known
, those same places were happily brewing coffee until midnight!

You're full of it.
Do you even know how to properly file a complaint in that logbook?
You really think the Department of Labor hands out fines based on just one person's word?
They read through your info in the log (which, by the way, you actually have to fill out correctly—hope you know that) and then they’ll give you a call to hear both sides before any actual sanctions happen.
Otherwise, everyone would just be writing whatever garbage they wanted in those books.

And regarding this coffee thing—aren't you a little embarrassed? Or does it not gross you out to even ask for a coffee at a place like that at that hour? Who knows what kind of crap they've been putting in there since then. 😛

I honestly can’t wrap my head around how some restaurant owners are so clueless, basically driving non-smokers away from their patios with these kinds of moves.
If that ever happened to me, I wouldn't even break a sweat. They get one shot, and if they blow it? They’re dead to me.
For crying out loud, I’m not living off of you—you’re living off of me! You better start showing some respect for the cash I'm dropping in your register. If you want to act like that, just get up and find a spot at the cafe down the street; there are plenty of them popping up on every corner anyway. 🙏
But hey, once the rain starts hitting and the temperature drops, when the smoking crowd (shoutout to the crew 🤣) heads back to their own places, those "genius" owners are gonna realize they pushed away the exact customers they should've been looking after all along. 🙏

Brian Wright56 said:You're full of it.
Do you even know how to properly file a complaint in that logbook?
You really think the Department of Labor hands out fines based on just one person's word?
They read through your info in the log (which, by the way, you actually have to fill out correctly—hope you know that) and then they’ll give you a call to hear both sides before any actual sanctions happen.
Otherwise, everyone would just be writing whatever garbage they wanted in those books.

And regarding this coffee thing—aren't you a little embarrassed? Or does it not gross you out to even ask for a coffee at a place like that at that hour? Who knows what kind of crap they've been putting in there since then. 😛

Oh, I know, I definitely know how to fill one out. I've actually dealt with inspectors personally regarding that exact thing...😁 and let's just say it turned out in my favor... hehehe...😁 (I won't get into the whole saga right now...)
But please, don't act like I'm disgusted! Usually (and I'm talking about two different local spots here) I'm sitting right there at the bar, so I see exactly what they're doing...

Austin Ramirez3 said:I honestly can’t wrap my head around how some restaurant owners are so clueless, basically driving non-smokers away from their patios with these kinds of moves.
If that ever happened to me, I wouldn't even break a sweat. They get one shot, and if they blow it? They’re dead to me.
For crying out loud, I’m not living off of you—you’re living off of me! You better start showing some respect for the cash I'm dropping in your register. If you want to act like that, just get up and find a spot at the cafe down the street; there are plenty of them popping up on every corner anyway. 🙏
But hey, once the rain starts hitting and the temperature drops, when the smoking crowd (shoutout to the crew 🤣) heads back to their own places, those "genius" owners are gonna realize they pushed away the exact customers they should've been looking after all along. 🙏

Exactly. Then, in a few months, they'll be whining to anyone who will listen about how their cafe isn't seeing enough non-smokers.

silvertiger11 said:Exactly. Then, in a few months, they'll be whining to anyone who will listen about how their cafe isn't seeing enough non-smokers.

I used to work in the service industry for a bit, and honestly, non-smokers were mostly just the types who would order a plain black coffee—which is always cheaper than anything fancy—or a basic bottled water, and then they'd sit there for two hours straight. Imagine a small neighborhood bar with ten tables, and nine of them are occupied by people doing exactly that. Then, that tenth table gets filled by a group of smokers who are actually ordering rounds of beers, keeping the energy up, and making sure the server stays busy every twenty minutes. (Feel free to correct me if I'm off base here, any former restaurant managers out there?)

Don't worry, you won't see bar owners weeping over the loss of non-smokers; they aren't exactly the most profitable crowd anyway. But the outcry from the smoking community? That’s been massive, at least from what I can gather.

Plus, we all know those regulations will probably get "tweaked" again by the fall.😉