What happened to the Japanese economic miracle?

Man, when I was a kid, I remember hearing nonstop about how Japan was this unstoppable economic powerhouse. I clearly recall watching all those 80s and early 90s American movies and shows where everyone seemed terrified that Japan was gonna totally outpace the US economy. Then, just like that—poof—that whole vibe basically evaporated.
Plus, I've come across that "lost decade" thing mentioned a few times regarding Japan's economy.
Nowadays, when people talk about massive economic surges, it’s always about China or India, but nobody really mentions Japan anymore. So, if anyone actually knows what went down there, fill me in.

restlessfox5 said:Man, when I was a kid, I remember hearing nonstop about how Japan was this unstoppable economic powerhouse. I clearly recall watching all those 80s and early 90s American movies and shows where everyone seemed terrified that Japan was gonna totally outpace the US economy. Then, just like that—poof—that whole vibe basically evaporated.
Plus, I've come across that "lost decade" thing mentioned a few times regarding Japan's economy.
Nowadays, when people talk about massive economic surges, it’s always about China or India, but nobody really mentions Japan anymore. So, if anyone actually knows what went down there, fill me in.

Capitalism isn't built for the long haul. It basically just burns through human resources until it either finds a new way to grow or hits a wall. If it can't find fresh resources, it just stalls out, and that's usually when civil liberties start taking a hit.

Look, growth isn't infinite. Japan's GDP per capita is top-tier globally, but they've hit a ceiling. They just can't sustain this pace indefinitely.

Now they’re facing a different beast—an aging population. It feels like Japan is slowly turning into one massive retirement community. That’s what happens when you overwork everyone; people are so caught up in the grind that there's zero time left for anything else, let alone starting a family.

It's entirely possible that in thirty years, we'll be asking the same thing about the Chinese miracle. Everyone keeps shouting that the Chinese will take over the world, but we'll see if that actually pans out.

fadedgardener15 said:Capitalism isn't built for the long haul. It basically just burns through human resources until it either finds a new way to grow or hits a wall. If it can't find fresh resources, it just stalls out, and that's usually when civil liberties start taking a hit.

I honestly think the Japanese people had it better than the Chinese people...

Like, 90% of Japanese people live in total abundance, while a whopping 90% of Chinese people are stuck in poverty...

restlessfox5 said:Man, when I was a kid, I remember hearing nonstop about how Japan was this unstoppable economic powerhouse. I clearly recall watching all those 80s and early 90s American movies and shows where everyone seemed terrified that Japan was gonna totally outpace the US economy. Then, just like that—poof—that whole vibe basically evaporated.
Plus, I've come across that "lost decade" thing mentioned a few times regarding Japan's economy.
Nowadays, when people talk about massive economic surges, it’s always about China or India, but nobody really mentions Japan anymore. So, if anyone actually knows what went down there, fill me in.

I don't personally know much about the specifics of this matter, but your observations piqued my curiosity, so I went ahead and pulled up an article that provides a rather thorough explanation, at least concerning the concept of the lost decade.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2...30/japan.japan

Japan is really a prime example of what happens when a nation actually uses its brain. They’ve managed to take their knowledge and turn it into one of the most advanced high-tech powerhouses on the planet. But then, looking at it from another angle, it also shows you just how much it hurts to lack major natural resources. Honestly, if Japan were sitting where Russia or China is located, they wouldn't even need to try—they'd be an undisputed global superpower without breaking a sweat.

Richard Wilson4 said:I honestly think the Japanese people had it better than the Chinese people...

Like, 90% of Japanese people live in total abundance, while a whopping 90% of Chinese people are stuck in poverty...

The Japanese kicked off the Meiji restoration back in 1866, whereas the Chinese didn't even start their reforms until a hundred years later...

Zachary Watson50 said:Japan is really a prime example of what happens when a nation actually uses its brain. They’ve managed to take their knowledge and turn it into one of the most advanced high-tech powerhouses on the planet. But then, looking at it from another angle, it also shows you just how much it hurts to lack major natural resources. Honestly, if Japan were sitting where Russia or China is located, they wouldn't even need to try—they'd be an undisputed global superpower without breaking a sweat.

I don't quite follow your logic there. Isn't Japan already wealthier than Russia and already holds a massive amount of influence on the world stage? Are you seriously suggesting it all comes down to raw resources?

Richard Wilson4 said:I honestly think the Japanese people had it better than the Chinese people...

Like, 90% of Japanese people live in total abundance, while a whopping 90% of Chinese people are stuck in poverty...

It’s essentially like comparing a complete role reversal between Russia and Japan, which is what Iron wrote about... ☕

copperheron8 said:I don't quite follow your logic there. Isn't Japan already wealthier than Russia and already holds a massive amount of influence on the world stage? Are you seriously suggesting it all comes down to raw resources?

Sure, Japan’s economy is bigger than Russia's and so on... and yeah, the Japanese people have a higher standard of living. But they just don't have the resources. They lack those massive natural resources you see in China or even Russia. That was their weakness, which is honestly why they expanded across Asia in the first place. To me, Japan is this perfect example of how a nation can drive its own growth and progress primarily through human capital and sheer intelligence, even if it does come with certain limitations. If Japan actually had those natural resources, they wouldn't just be an important player... they'd be a global superpower, much like they were back before WWII.

Brenda Ross47 said:The Japanese kicked off the Meiji restoration back in 1866, whereas the Chinese didn't even start their reforms until a hundred years later...

Honestly, you really only need to look at everything from 1945 onwards, since Japan basically had to rebuild from scratch after the war.

Like I was saying earlier about movies—think about "Blade Runner"—where the main guy is walking through the streets and he's surrounded by these massive screens flashing ads in Japanese... that vibe was spot on for when Ford became a massive seller in the 80s, when Japanese companies were buying up American brands and expanding all over the USA. Back then, Japan was just crushing it with tech, from video games to robotics, so Americans definitely felt the heat in that economic showdown.
China, on the other hand, builds its economic muscle on cheap labor and low-cost—often pretty low-quality—products. It’s just not really an apples-to-apples comparison...

restlessfox5 said:Honestly, you really only need to look at everything from 1945 onwards, since Japan basically had to rebuild from scratch after the war.

Like I was saying earlier about movies—think about "Blade Runner"—where the main guy is walking through the streets and he's surrounded by these massive screens flashing ads in Japanese... that vibe was spot on for when Ford became a massive seller in the 80s, when Japanese companies were buying up American brands and expanding all over the USA. Back then, Japan was just crushing it with tech, from video games to robotics, so Americans definitely felt the heat in that economic showdown.
China, on the other hand, builds its economic muscle on cheap labor and low-cost—often pretty low-quality—products. It’s just not really an apples-to-apples comparison...

That might be true for right now, but looking twenty or thirty years down the road... I wouldn't count the Chinese out. Comparing China in 1980 to what it is today... honestly, I don't think any country has ever gone through that much development or such massive shifts in such a short amount of time.

Neoliberal capitalism is just way too slippery to ever serve as a reliable benchmark for guaranteed economic stability. It’s one of those situations where you could honestly apply that old saying about how everyone gets their five minutes of fame in life—except here, it applies to market volatility.

After watching what happened in Taiwan, Thailand, Japan, Korea, and China, I’d say it’s finally Russia's turn!

One really ought to look strictly at the timeline starting from 1945, given that Japan has been building from absolute zero ever since.

If you ask me, looking at it this way makes more sense: even though everything was leveled, back in 1945 they possessed far more than we do today. What are we talking about? It’s their work ethic, their loyalty, their sheer diligence—those intangible qualities that actually matter. That carries much more weight, because as you can see, they managed to rise from the ashes in just twenty years despite having "nothing." The Germans followed a similar trajectory, didn't they?

Yet, one has to wonder where all that drive eventually leads... (admittedly, they are leagues ahead of us...) but still...
I read recently that they are at the top of the list for suicide rates—though who could have predicted such a thing, considering their immense wealth and specific psychological makeup, since they certainly aren't lacking for resources over there—and then there is the demographic crisis, that imbalance between the elderly and the youth that someone else already touched upon... and so on and so forth...

It proves that GDP isn't everything. Not all that glitters is gold, after all.

As for China... and their flood of knockoff products... it was quite similar with Japan in the early days, as was previously mentioned. You have Korea as another example. But how do we describe it? Practice makes perfect, right? And look at them now.
China is following that exact same path.

We already have satellite receivers in the electronics sector that are better than the original models, simply because these Chinese clones run cooler and cost significantly less.
The real question is when we will see a version of Coke or Verizon that outperforms the originals while being cheaper...
But let's be realistic; those companies aren't foolish. They will lean heavily into branding.😁

And before you know it, you end up with something like today's Apple, which isn't exactly cheap junk, is it?

if Japan were in the position of Russia or China, they would undoubtedly be a global superpower.

And what kind of superpower would that be? That is precisely why efforts are made to ensure that never happens. Because if a Chinese person becomes the master of the world, we are all finished, regardless of where we stand.
They lack empathy; they are driven to dominate. That seems to be the psychological blueprint—there is a certain sadistic streak in how they treat subordinates, or perhaps that is just the culture they operate under.

granitemarlin4 said:Neoliberal capitalism is just way too slippery to ever serve as a reliable benchmark for guaranteed economic stability. It’s one of those situations where you could honestly apply that old saying about how everyone gets their five minutes of fame in life—except here, it applies to market volatility.

After watching what happened in Taiwan, Thailand, Japan, Korea, and China, I’d say it’s finally Russia's turn!

Russia missed its window, just like the rest of Eastern Europe. With so many old-timers running things, there's zero chance they'll actually evolve...

The era of Russia is just beginning to dawn!

If you were to sit down with our business leaders and ask them whether they preferred partnering with Russian firms or Western ones, what would they say?
Who actually settles their invoices on schedule, and who is constantly dragging their feet?

They possess both the raw energy and the intellect, and more importantly, they have time on their side.

Is this truly the output of a nation whose time has supposedly passed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyjxqr4O4Ug

Even the Americans attempted to replicate this, yet it seems they never quite managed to pull it off.

Edward Fisher3 said:The era of Russia is just beginning to dawn!

If you were to sit down with our business leaders and ask them whether they preferred partnering with Russian firms or Western ones, what would they say?
Who actually settles their invoices on schedule, and who is constantly dragging their feet?

They possess both the raw energy and the intellect, and more importantly, they have time on their side.

Is this truly the output of a nation whose time has supposedly passed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyjxqr4O4Ug

Even the Americans attempted to replicate this, yet it seems they never quite managed to pull it off.

Look, speaking as an economist working for a company that deals with both the West and Russia, all this talk about who people prefer is total nonsense. Western companies pay on time—period. They meet their financial obligations within 30 to 60 days of receiving an invoice, no questions asked. And now that they have the cash, the Russians pay on time too. Back in the 90s, things weren't great, so we didn't even deal with them. With the Russians, it's easier to cut a deal because of their... let's call it "personal passion" for dollars and euros, if you catch my drift. A Westerner, on the other hand, only cares about one thing: getting high-quality products for their money.

If Westerners are solely hunting for high-end quality, then what exactly is it that Russians are after... just cheap junk? 😁

Go ahead, tell me—what is it that Russians actually want?

You’ve listed what Westerners are looking for, but for what purpose? And what about the Russians? Is there even a fundamental difference to be found here?
It seems as though they're simply looking to squeeze every last dollar out of their pockets!

By the way, if anyone were to ask me whether I would opt for American or Russian citizenship... I’d choose the former without a second thought, if only to avoid any unnecessary friction. But sometimes, isn't it worth looking the truth in the eye and admitting that Russians aren't entirely "disposable" either?

restlessfox5 said:Man, when I was a kid, I remember hearing nonstop about how Japan was this unstoppable economic powerhouse. I clearly recall watching all those 80s and early 90s American movies and shows where everyone seemed terrified that Japan was gonna totally outpace the US economy. Then, just like that—poof—that whole vibe basically evaporated.
Plus, I've come across that "lost decade" thing mentioned a few times regarding Japan's economy.
Nowadays, when people talk about massive economic surges, it’s always about China or India, but nobody really mentions Japan anymore. So, if anyone actually knows what went down there, fill me in.

Back in the 80s, the central bank in Japan implemented massive monetary expansion—essentially keeping interest rates low and printing money—to prevent the yen from getting too strong against the dollar and to artificially boost their exports without much actual necessity.

As with any period of monetary expansion, this created asset bubbles. Stock prices and real estate values shot up to unrealistic levels, and companies took on way too much debt. These bubbles were bound to burst sooner or later, which is exactly what happened in the early 1990s.

Now, you might think the government would have learned its lesson and moved on, but that wasn't quite the case.
Following the classic Keynesian tradition of heavy state intervention, they decided to "fix" the economy through massive stimulus packages.
To put it simply, it resulted in a mountain of useless government spending (there's even a joke about how much of the Japanese coastline has been covered in concrete since then), enormous national debt, artificially propping up failing banks and corporations, and essentially gambling on a recovery that wouldn't come.
(It reminds me somewhat of what Obama is doing currently...)

So yes, we had the lost decade in the 90s, and things aren't looking much better now.

When you factor in a rapidly aging population on top of everything else, well, it's just tough luck. ☕

Edward Fisher3 said:The era of Russia is just beginning to dawn!

If you were to sit down with our business leaders and ask them whether they preferred partnering with Russian firms or Western ones, what would they say?
Who actually settles their invoices on schedule, and who is constantly dragging their feet?

They possess both the raw energy and the intellect, and more importantly, they have time on their side.

Is this truly the output of a nation whose time has supposedly passed?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyjxqr4O4Ug

Even the Americans attempted to replicate this, yet it seems they never quite managed to pull it off.

All that military hardware isn't some kind of metric for how well people are actually living. ☕