mistygardener59 said:If an individual genuinely believes they are the Son of God, possesses immortality, and expects to undergo reincarnation—all while maintaining that they can absorb the sins of others through crucifixion and that their personal suffering serves a greater good for all of humanity—what kind of clinical diagnosis would actually fit such a person?
I guess the answer would be to bring up "Jerusalem syndrome." I’d also probably add that saying "all of humanity" doesn't really hold up when you look at one specific detail. From one point of view, Mary's son was more about the idea that the sun shines on everyone equally—good people and bad alike—and he was really pushing for forgiveness and love toward...
to those closest to usSo, yeah, he basically declared that to be the most important law. But if you look at Jewish law, a lot of the big-time scholars seem to think that when they talk about your "neighbor," they’re really just talking about other Jews—basically, people within their own faith. To them, outsiders were more like "dogs." I mean, even Jesus said something along those lines to that woman who came to him for help, specifically regarding her little sick puppy, right? If people actually embraced the Christian dimension and opened it up to the entire world, you'd see a pattern. Neither the Jewish nor the Christian concept is really about saving every single person on Earth. It’s more about preaching a specific kind of "good news," or emphasizing the need to follow certain laws. It's all about acting according to these specific guidelines so you can save yourself from hell, or rather, avoid falling out of God's favor eventually if you choose a different path. I guess that's just how it works.
So, moving on to the other part of what we were talking about—if you really dig into the core of Jesus' teachings and the whole foundation of American Christianity, there’s this constant theme of an ultimate showdown between good and evil. It’s all about that "separating the wheat from the chaff" vibe, right? Like, the idea that it’s a narrow path and only a few people actually find it. So, it isn't even about saving every single person on Earth; it's specifically for the "righteous"—those who follow the rules exactly how they're laid out. The whole thing kind of predicts this inevitable friction and division. I mean, there are lines about how He didn't come to bring peace, but a sword, and how families would basically be torn apart. It’s like everything gets categorized into good vs. bad, and then there’s this weird hierarchy based on merit, like some "greatest and least" ranking in heaven. Even back in the day, you see Jesus' first disciples asking who would be closest to Him, and later on, people are obsessing over who prayed more, did more good deeds, stayed longer in monasteries, or—well, I guess depending on how you look at it—who was willing to take the most extreme risks. It honestly feels like everyone was just trying to figure out whatever method gave them the best chance at winning the game, or maybe just whichever version of "devotion" felt like the least amount of brainwashing to them at the time. I don't know, maybe I'm overthinking it, but it seems pretty much built into the structure.
So, I was just sitting here thinking about how you'd even frame a question like this if you wanted to get a real answer. Like, how do you properly phrase it? I mean, what kind of diagnosis would you even give someone who claims they’re going to save everyone who follows their lead—their specific teachings or their whole way of life—even if following them leads straight into misery or death? It's that whole idea where they promise a beautiful life in the hereafter, but only for those who stick to their exact path, while everyone else who doesn't fit that mold is basically doomed to perish because they aren't part of the "inner circle." I guess I'm just wondering how you'd actually put that into words without sounding totally lost.
If we go ahead and add up all those other elements they're asking for... I guess that changes things, doesn't it? Maybe.
diagnosis I mean, it’s pretty straightforward if you think about it: the whole idea is that life goes on forever, and that someone—just anyone, really—sacrifices themselves for the greater good after their body gives out. It feels like this massive, almost megalomaniacal religious concept, centered entirely around being the Son of God. There isn't any other version of it, you know? No daughters, no other sons, no virgins... just that one specific path. I guess it’s just how the whole thing is built.
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If anyone else wants to dive deeper into this—it’s actually pretty interesting when you think about that idea of saving the "righteous sinners" (you know, people who aren't truly wicked, they just don't quite get how to live perfectly right) and what Jesus was actually getting at with that. I guess there's a lot to unpack there, maybe.
Making money... man, where do you even start with that? I guess there isn't one single magic answer, right? It’s kind of all over the place depending on who you ask. Some folks swear by the old-school grind—just putting in those hours at a place like Starbucks or maybe a local firm in Chicago—while others are out here trying to figure out the whole side hustle thing. I mean, maybe it’s about investing, or maybe it's just finding that one thing you're actually good at and sticking with it. It feels like everyone has a different philosophy lately. One day it's crypto, the next it's real estate, then suddenly everyone's talking about remote freelance gigs. It's a lot to wrap your head around, honestly. I don't have it all figured out myself, but I feel like the goal is always the same: just finding a way to stay ahead of the curve without losing your mind in the process. Just food for thought, I suppose. Eternal life... I mean, does anyone actually have a clue what that’s supposed to look like? I guess you could assume it would feel a bit like being back in the Garden of Eden—you know, when everything was perfect and the first people were just working God's garden without a care in the world. But then again, maybe it won't be exactly like that, since Jesus gave us some hints about how things are going to change. He mentioned that we’ll basically be like angels, which apparently means no more marriage or getting hitched. So, if that's the case, I suppose sex is off the table too? It's almost like he's planning a second attempt at creating this flawless little vortex, filled with perfectly obedient gardeners. If that holds true, we probably won't be hooking up anymore; instead, everyone will just be playing harps and shooting nothing but arrows of love at one another. Everyone just totally vibing with everyone else, I guess. 🤷 ??
And just one more thing 🙂 (honestly, I’ll probably keep typing until my fingers give out): let's say, hypothetically, that Jesus really was God's son—meaning he actually "knew his Father"—as he claimed, whether he was losing his mind or not. It raises this question: would anyone have even dared to act differently? I mean, if you
know that after a little bit of crucifixion and some suffering, you’re guaranteed eternal life, ruling in paradise, and getting that massive reward of being "the greatest in the kingdom of heaven"... who in their right mind would choose anything else? So, either he was just a regular guy who developed a really specific way of escaping reality because he was disappointed with what life had to offer, or he didn't do anything particularly special—basically, he just did what any sane person would do given those circumstances. He chose the lesser of two evils, or rather, the greater good. So, maybe he was a madman, but a smart kind of madman, where the madness comes from the premise of being God's son, while all his actions just line up perfectly with that core idea.
Then there's that third possibility—that Jesus could have chosen a different path entirely by serving the supposed Satan. If you follow that logic, it implies this figure is powerful enough to actually stand up to God, which, I guess, is pretty much the heart of Christianity—the whole teaching about the existence of a Great Evil and other wicked forces. In that light, maybe Jesus was just trying to play his cards right with His Father to secure a spot in the next kingdom, rather than siding with Satan just because he didn't like the terms of the deal. That's the flip side of his "madness": he believes he's God's son, but he also firmly believes in Satan and all those other evil spirits that occasionally jump from people into herds of pigs, which then leap off cliffs into the sea (maybe they're trying to reincarnate into something better after being stuck in pig form?). This whole mess might have started with angels, archangels, fallen angels, spirits, and all those mythological beings Jesus believed in just as much as he believed God was his Dad—beings that apparently fight over different worlds or sectors of the Universe or whatever. It seems like the Father of them all is either super lenient or has completely lost control; then again, some people think he died 😕. Statistics show women live longer, so if humans were made in God's image, who knows... Anyway, we should probably add to this craziness the idea that God spoke with his mother, and try looking at the world through that lens. How would you behave if you were convinced your mother had somehow communicated with God? It makes believers come up with all sorts of new questions, like, does a little Mary exist now? Did she become the Queen Mother of the Universe? And did the Devil come from some illicit affair? Did God sleep with women other than Mary? Did he lose his virginity to her? Did Mary reach a climax during the act or experience multiple orgasms? Why did God knead Adam from the dirt and make Eve from a rib, but make Jesus a totally different way?
In the end, is Satan going to turn Jesus' bones into stew, or is Jesus going to whip Satan into a stew like the prophets promised? Or was it all just a clever trick to keep the masses submissive, or perhaps just satisfied with the inherited value systems they've been handed? These are systems that shift through time and space, stubbornly defending themselves until they're eventually overridden by different views, driven by the will of the crowds or some other power source. And these systems are "smart" only insofar as the crowds and power sources behind them are smart and well-intentioned toward the rest of humanity.
From a psychological standpoint, I look at Jesus as a somewhat tragic demagogue with suicidal tendencies who found his purpose in preaching exactly what he wanted to believe. It's the same thing people wanted to believe hundreds or thousands of years before him, and the same thing people will want to believe thousands of years after him—that there is something massive and joyful waiting for us beyond this life, provided we do "this" and "that." People just want a formula for happiness they can grasp right now, or at least something to hold onto during their darkest moments later on. They need hope in *something* to act as the strength to endure hard times. It’s like when a parent tells a kid, "Clean your room and I'll buy you ice cream." Religious illusion is basically ice cream for adults, supported by everyone else in a loop that keeps the belief alive—which, for some, acts as a healing force, and for others, something totally destructive.
I guess I look at Jesus as being a victim of his own apostles and followers—just one more "messiah" caught up in the whirlwind of collective religious mania. On one hand, you have this madness, but on the other, you have what’s become a pretty standard, universally accepted "cure" for life's disappointments, or maybe just a tool to level up one's existence across all sorts of societies. It’s something that certain types of priests, prophets, and similar figures have cultivated and continue to nurse, whether it benefits or exploits the people seeking help—it really just depends on what someone is looking for in those specific moments. In our neck of the woods, it feels like they even want to introduce this kind of "medicine" into preschools. People go after it because it falls under that category of free stuff available to everyone, even though the potential side effects are massive. You’ve got things like Jerusalem syndrome, where people might stop eating, drinking, or enjoying ice cream and sex altogether; then there's radical shifts in how they act or dress, wandering off into deserts or monasteries, becoming drifters, or even worse, committing suicide. You see people losing interest in everything needed to actually sustain a life, living nakedly, giving away every cent they own, killing others, or showing intense intolerance and hatred toward the very things religions claim to protect. Not to mention all the other extremes or mild behaviors religion pushes. So, looking at it from our modern American cultural perspective, Jesus was probably just as "crazy" as someone from an Aboriginal tribe or any other culture out there. If he was totally in sync with his own people, then I guess he wasn't at all. Looking at it from the angle of his own well-being, it seems like he ate well, drank okay, walked around, rambled through the hills, and made a living through healing; his preaching lifestyle wasn't necessarily bad, but he died young and in total agony, so my final verdict is pretty negative. Maybe he fell in with the wrong crowd too early, but I honestly have a feeling his mother might have been the one who messed him up the most. Either way, we just don't have enough data to be certain, especially with all the controversy and obviously flawed translations of words, thoughts, and deeds that thousands of sects and millions of individuals argue over—likely mostly because of the constant, unwanted side effects that religion brings along for the ride.
