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How much do entry-level economists actually know?

Started by Raymond Cruz42 · · 👁 10 views · 84 replies

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Participants Raymond Cruz42John Allen5rapidbison30Morgan Cruz80Maria Robinson6Jacob Wood9Charles YoungJason Jones2Adam Fox3Andrew Booth29Richard Lewis16hiddenhawk3dustymarlin10Carl Morales9slydrifter5northernmarlin2brightlynx11casuallynx8John White50shadowcrane12Harold Garcia9Jamie LeeSamuel White11Jeffrey Johnson2 …
Ashley Wilson7 Ashley Wilson7 Newcomer
1 message
joined Jan 2009
#41 ·
Maybe it’s just because I also graduated from Harvard Business School, so 🙂 I don't know, but looking through the coverage in both USA Today and Yahoo, I haven't seen anything that points toward this being anything other than a standard research study rather than actual job testing.

And honestly, I’m glad someone finally called out how unethical and unprofessional it is to leak this kind of data to the public—regardless of whether it was meant as research or part of a hiring process. I truly hope the women responsible for publishing these figures realize that they won't see another candidate apply for a role anytime soon. Let alone, say, a "bad" candidate (though I find their definition of "bad" highly questionable given the criteria they used to label them).
Not to mention, if I were one of their clients, I’d be asking some very pointed questions: just how secure is my confidential data once it's in their hands? And more importantly, how competent are they at actually doing the job they’re paid for when they either a) hire people from a talent pool labeled with "concerning knowledge," or b) fail to hire anyone because the candidates aren't "up to par," leaving them to handle an ever-growing workload entirely on their own?

Moving on—I would add that there is a fundamental difference between applicants applying to Ernst & Young or any other Big 4 firm (since we're discussing them here) versus those applying to a boutique firm like Deloitte. I’m not suggesting Deloitte isn't high quality; it’s just that as a smaller local player, they simply don't offer the same path to global advancement. Consequently, they likely attract a different subset of people from the massive pool of annual business graduates.
When you combine that with the fact that they didn't release comparable results for other professions—like medicine or agronomy, for instance—you're left with a non-representative sample that tells us absolutely nothing.

Then there’s the whole issue regarding the quality of our education system, where you practically have to teach yourself everything just to emerge as a viable candidate in the job market...
Arthur Barnes Arthur Barnes Active Member
131 messages
joined Mar 2009
#42 ·
It’s hilarious watching everyone dogpile on the education system when they were asking basic general knowledge questions in the first place.

Am I supposed to have learned about the San Francisco Boardwalk in college? Did we take courses called Broadway I and Broadway II? If this study actually proves anything, it just shows what the average business student looks like. And the average profile is someone who doesn't know a damn thing, yet still has the nerve to blame the university...
hiddenhawk3 hiddenhawk3 Active Member
160 messages
joined Oct 2007
#43 ·
Arthur Barnes said:It’s hilarious watching everyone dogpile on the education system when they were asking basic general knowledge questions in the first place.

Am I supposed to have learned about the San Francisco Boardwalk in college? Did we take courses called Broadway I and Broadway II? If this study actually proves anything, it just shows what the average business student looks like. And the average profile is someone who doesn't know a damn thing, yet still has the nerve to blame the university...

Regarding the Times Square thing, I’d probably fail too. I wouldn't miss out on a century of knowing about the USA, but maybe one year... 🙂 I think the study is stupid. I still don't get why they're testing general knowledge during an interview for an economist role. 🤷
They could have thrown in sports questions, too—I'm clueless there, and hey, that's also general knowledge.
It would be interesting to run this same study on other majors (like how much med students, biologists, or engineers actually know), especially since everything shifted to the credit system recently. 🙂
George Gray3 George Gray3 Member
13 messages
joined Oct 2005
#44 ·
Nothing much, you guys just want everything to go back to how it used to be—the old USA economy, national defense, and all that stuff? I guess maybe. TIPSS😍
Susan James42 Susan James42 Active Member
62 messages
joined Sep 2005
#45 ·
dustymarlin10 said:They don't know a thing.

It's a total joke.jot.

A perfect snapshot of what happens when you let fund managers play with other people's money without any oversight or actual consequences.

We basically watched them tank an entire year's worth of contributions in a single season.

That’s an interesting connection you've made there. It doesn't quite follow a logical path, but I have to admit, it’s certainly intriguing.
Looking at how people throw around the term "Idiot" (whether they include the underscore or not), it strikes me that their insults might actually be accurate—if only they understood even the basics of the Economy.
Honestly, people like that are just total Idiots.
And that sentiment resonates with a huge portion of the American population as well.

And when you start wondering why things are the way they are, just remember this: none of you—and I’m not even including Smotani2 in that group—actually bother to show any real respect for the people in your own circles who actually put in the work or possess genuine expertise.
The real heavy hitters around here? It’s always the same crowd: those self-proclaimed American "celebrities," the career criminals, and the politicians.
It’s all the same to me—just a endless cycle of blue-collar workers and intellectuals.

Between the skyrocketing inflation and those parents who lose their minds and go after professors just because their mediocre, lazy kid—who, let’s be honest, clearly inherited that entire worldview from them—gets a failing grade, it’s becoming quite a spectacle.
When people who lack even a shred of genuine interest walk into a university setting, they aren't just facing a curriculum—they are being handed over to American "professors" whose intellectual and scientific growth effectively peaked the moment they finished their doctoral dissertations (if they haven't plateaued much earlier than that). We’re talking about instructors who struggle to navigate basic computer software, let alone master the very subjects they are tasked with teaching. When you combine that level of academic stagnation with the current, questionable criteria used to grade students, it becomes painfully obvious why we see such mediocre individuals graduating. Honestly, if you're looking at the state of these graduates, do you really think it's surprising?

That’s really just the reality of how most universities across the US operate; it's a direct reflection of the society they exist within. You see these patterns because the culture shapes the institutions. Of course, you’ll find certain departments that deviate slightly from this norm—I’m thinking primarily of the hard sciences. In those fields, the standards are much more rigid and the metrics for success are far more concrete than in other disciplines.
Take interest rates, for instance. You could spend a lifetime debating them, and honestly, you’d probably still be arguing a millennium from now. It's such an incredibly complex phenomenon, layered with so many shifting variables and moving parts that the ultimate outcome is almost impossible to pin down with certainty. But then, look at static structural calculations. There's no room for endless debate there; you're dealing with fixed values and rigid formulas. In that world, if you mess up the math even slightly, the building doesn't just lean—it comes crashing down.
Look, man, you don't need to watch a building actually crumble to know it’s about to come down. It’s the same deal with the market—no matter what maneuvers you pull or how much you try to manipulate the situation, the exchange rate is going to follow its own inevitable path. Money has a way of finding its direction regardless of our interference.
Well, I suppose that’s just how the criteria shake out then...

Furthermore, general culture isn't something you simply pick up during your years at a university. It’s actually the byproduct of the prevailing social standards and the overall atmosphere of the society you live in. Therefore, the "knowledge" possessed by these economists is merely a reflection of what we call a "knowledge society" here in America.

When you have students like this being taught by professors of the exact same caliber, you end up with a society that is fundamentally broken. We’re seeing civil engineers designing apartment complexes where the roof access is completely non-existent. We see judges making hiring decisions based on nothing more than someone's genetic lineage—and honestly, I won't even get into the sheer vulgarity of how those backroom deals are handled. We have mayors who lack any sense of patriotism, pulling down the flag during major international competitions. Then there are the psychologists whose entire professional scope seems to be limited to getting a fifteen-minute segment on a CBS exclusive. You look at architects who design hideous eyesores just to serve as monuments to their own egos, or journalists and editors who haven't even mastered basic American grammar rules, yet they feel entitled to apply English linguistic standards to our own language. And don't even get me started on the structural engineers, whose bridges are so poorly constructed they practically collapse if someone so much as sneezes near the construction site. 1.2 milesIs this really happening? A Prime Minister actually standing there and begging banks to just walk away from their profits? It sounds absolutely surreal.

And now you’re all coming to me to talk about young economists? Seriously?
God forbid—are we really going to talk about the "knowledge society" now?

Come on, don't be shy... let's hear it!
Susan James42 Susan James42 Active Member
62 messages
joined Sep 2005
#46 ·
George Gray3 said:Nothing much, you guys just want everything to go back to how it used to be—the old USA economy, national defense, and all that stuff? I guess maybe. TIPSS😍

Honestly, looking back at those characters from the history books, I can't help but feel like they were all just a bunch of immature kids playing at being adults.
George Gray3 George Gray3 Member
13 messages
joined Oct 2005
#47 ·
Susan James42 said:Honestly, looking back at those characters from the history books, I can't help but feel like they were all just a bunch of immature kids playing at being adults.

What do you think, though? Like, where did all those professors end up who used to teach this stuff? I wonder if they're even still working, especially since it's not called Commercial Law anymore, it's Business Law and all that.
Jeffrey Johnson2 Jeffrey Johnson2 Member
14 messages
joined May 2009
#48 ·
@Susan James42

I’m with you on that point, but seriously—where do you people even find these Idiots? I’m starting to feel like I’m hanging out with some kind of intellectual elite—which, let’s be real, I am definitely not.

We need to have the conversation about our knowledge-based society on a completely different level. My take? As a nation, we're probably decent on average, but we lack top-tier experts—we just don't have enough of them. Part of the blame lies with the education system, part with society at large... but honestly, parents take the biggest hit here, though what can you do when they're just like that too? Where do you even start to fix this mess?

The media here has zero clue about their social responsibility. They should basically be taxed on all their trash content to fund the entire education system—just to offset some of the damage they do to society. I can't even watch the World Handball Championship because half the anchors over at CBS can barely pronounce basic words—it's pathetic. Instead, they spend all their time talking about the players' wives or attractive fans screaming for the goalie (who, by the way, needs a serious scrubbing first), while Dominiković is busy hawking potato chips on his jersey... not to mention how every single nightly news broadcast is just a bloodbath of "who killed who." It's disgusting. There isn't a single segment with actual informative value to be found. It's all just pure sensation. The only useful info you get all night is the weather forecast.
Jacob Wood9 Jacob Wood9 Active Member
62 messages
joined Jun 2008
#49 ·
Jeffrey Johnson2 said:@Susan James42

I’m with you on that point, but seriously—where do you people even find these Idiots? I’m starting to feel like I’m hanging out with some kind of intellectual elite—which, let’s be real, I am definitely not.

We need to have the conversation about our knowledge-based society on a completely different level. My take? As a nation, we're probably decent on average, but we lack top-tier experts—we just don't have enough of them. Part of the blame lies with the education system, part with society at large... but honestly, parents take the biggest hit here, though what can you do when they're just like that too? Where do you even start to fix this mess?

The media here has zero clue about their social responsibility. They should basically be taxed on all their trash content to fund the entire education system—just to offset some of the damage they do to society. I can't even watch the World Handball Championship because half the anchors over at CBS can barely pronounce basic words—it's pathetic. Instead, they spend all their time talking about the players' wives or attractive fans screaming for the goalie (who, by the way, needs a serious scrubbing first), while Dominiković is busy hawking potato chips on his jersey... not to mention how every single nightly news broadcast is just a bloodbath of "who killed who." It's disgusting. There isn't a single segment with actual informative value to be found. It's all just pure sensation. The only useful info you get all night is the weather forecast.

In my view, we are actually poorly educated on a broad scale, given that there are hundreds of thousands of people who haven't even finished middle school, and for a significant portion of those with college degrees—as this "unfortunate" study seems to suggest—one might feel the exact same way.

Furthermore, I don't quite agree with the notion that parents are to blame for the shortage of elite specialists. Most high-level experts tend to acquire that drive and passion for excellence during their university years, primarily because they find genuine role models among the scientists they interact with.

Unfortunately, here, certain professors (and there are quite a few) are nothing more than grumpy bureaucrats who use their positions not to advance science, but to line their own pockets—whether it's through small bribes, extra fees, royalties, or similar little side hustles. Their textbooks are often just mere compilations or translations, and then they go a step further by demanding that students purchase these books as a prerequisite just to get a signature or to sit for an exam.
Jacob Wood9 Jacob Wood9 Active Member
62 messages
joined Jun 2008
#50 ·
hiddenhawk3 said:Regarding the Times Square thing, I’d probably fail too. I wouldn't miss out on a century of knowing about the USA, but maybe one year... 🙂 I think the study is stupid. I still don't get why they're testing general knowledge during an interview for an economist role. 🤷
They could have thrown in sports questions, too—I'm clueless there, and hey, that's also general knowledge.
It would be interesting to run this same study on other majors (like how much med students, biologists, or engineers actually know), especially since everything shifted to the credit system recently. 🙂

But look... if we're being realistic, someone who is highly educated isn't necessarily required to have that certain "breadth" of knowledge—which, honestly, is the entire point of a university degree. If that's the case, what's actually the difference between a high school grad and a college grad?...

If we are being completely honest, you could probably qualify someone for a role in auditing through five or six specific exams in a single semester without them needing to know anything else; you'd end up with a qualified accountant or a qualified auditor... so why bother with universities? We could just design specialized courses. Why would anyone need to pass 30 or 40 exams just for some mediocre job? Seriously, man, just learn what you need to know and spend the rest of your time catching up on Big Brother or lounging by a pool in Malibu.

Who is the Secretary of State: Ante Gotovac... who cares... I'm just a qualified auditor... if I wanted to be a qualified politician, I would have just signed up for that specific course.
Emily White10 Emily White10 Newcomer
2 messages
joined Jan 2009
#51 ·
I can't say I'm entirely surprised by this "study"... let's be honest, for a huge chunk of business school students, their biggest concern is what they're wearing to class or which car they'll pull up in to look the part...

That said, general knowledge should really be something we pick up from the media as well, and there's a fair amount of blame to be placed on them for these kinds of results.
I'd bet my life that every single person surveyed knew exactly who Paris Hilton, Britney Spears, or Amy Winehouse were... they probably knew who won Big Brother and who Katy Holmes' husband is... because thanks to the media, that’s what passes for "general knowledge" these days.
Robin Rodriguez5 Robin Rodriguez5 Active Member
149 messages
joined Sep 2011
#52 ·
Arthur Barnes said:It’s hilarious watching everyone dogpile on the education system when they were asking basic general knowledge questions in the first place.

Am I supposed to have learned about the San Francisco Boardwalk in college? Did we take courses called Broadway I and Broadway II? If this study actually proves anything, it just shows what the average business student looks like. And the average profile is someone who doesn't know a damn thing, yet still has the nerve to blame the university...

Well, they tested their actual professional skills too, and those results are even more pathetic.😁
Jacob Wood9 Jacob Wood9 Active Member
62 messages
joined Jun 2008
#53 ·
Robin Rodriguez5 said:Well, they tested their actual professional skills too, and those results are even more pathetic.😁

Exactly... I suppose that’s why they’re acting so stunned by the lack of "general knowledge." They probably assumed people at least knew how to watch the news😁 but this? It's just pure nonsense... it's as if these people stepped out of another dimension. It reminds me of those stories about lost soldiers in the woods who somehow missed the entire end of World War II
Robin Rodriguez5 Robin Rodriguez5 Active Member
149 messages
joined Sep 2011
#54 ·
You know, I had two Deans from the MIT Business School teaching me social sciences during my junior year, and one of them is actually the current Dean. Honestly? I wouldn't trust them to watch a single sheep in a pasture. 😁No results coming out of there could ever surprise me.
Andrew Martin10 Andrew Martin10 Newcomer
1 message
joined Jan 2009
#55 ·
Honestly, I have zero patience for people who lack basic professional etiquette, and while it’s somewhat expected when someone graduates with a degree totally unrelated to their job, it’s absolutely ridiculous that they don't even understand what an account is—let alone how to handle a rebalance. You can't just wing it in the Economy like that.
I mean, what would a guy from construction know about drafting complex blueprints or calculating exact material needs for a house? It's not like they're trained for that...
And you can't blame anyone for that ignorance except for the education system itself. As for my own major, I honestly feel like I'd never figure it out on my own, but that's why books, newspapers, and the web exist. I just dive into whatever interests me. If I had relied solely on professors, industry experts, or the way they structured the modern college system, I'd end up just like the people in this article 😢
But hey, that's where we are. It's nobody's fault but our own if we keep sticking with such a stupidly designed schooling system...
Jason Jones2 Jason Jones2 Member
32 messages
joined Feb 2009
#56 ·
I just heard that the company testing those young economists offered them a four-day certification course immediately after the results came out. They promised an international certificate for just $1267, a detail they conveniently left out of their press releases...
Raymond Cruz42 Raymond Cruz42 MemberOP
20 messages
joined Jan 2009
#57 ·
Jason Jones2 said:I just heard that the company testing those young economists offered them a four-day certification course immediately after the results came out. They promised an international certificate for just $1267, a detail they conveniently left out of their press releases...

🙏 Alright, so first they play dumb to make everyone look stupid, then they try to hawk a training course just so people can actually learn something. Honestly, I’m starting to have serious doubts about their research data...
John Allen5 John Allen5 Member
26 messages
joined Nov 2007
#58 ·
Jason Jones2 said:I just heard that the company testing those young economists offered them a four-day certification course immediately after the results came out. They promised an international certificate for just $1267, a detail they conveniently left out of their press releases...

Everything you need to know about them is right here👎

They really try to cover everything under the sun... auditing, accounting, marketing, sales... you name it.

Back in the day (if I remember correctly), Cost Accounting used to be an entire semester-long college course. Now, according to these "expert" auditors, you can master "Cost Accounting" in two days flat—for the low, low price of $4,500 plus tax.

I'm sure you'll feel much, much smarter after their course... and significantly poorer. 🙂
hiddenhawk3 hiddenhawk3 Active Member
160 messages
joined Oct 2007
#59 ·
Jacob Wood9 said:But look... if we're being realistic, someone who is highly educated isn't necessarily required to have that certain "breadth" of knowledge—which, honestly, is the entire point of a university degree. If that's the case, what's actually the difference between a high school grad and a college grad?...

If we are being completely honest, you could probably qualify someone for a role in auditing through five or six specific exams in a single semester without them needing to know anything else; you'd end up with a qualified accountant or a qualified auditor... so why bother with universities? We could just design specialized courses. Why would anyone need to pass 30 or 40 exams just for some mediocre job? Seriously, man, just learn what you need to know and spend the rest of your time catching up on Big Brother or lounging by a pool in Malibu.

Who is the Secretary of State: Ante Gotovac... who cares... I'm just a qualified auditor... if I wanted to be a qualified politician, I would have just signed up for that specific course.

If they went to a prep school, they might have some basic general knowledge. If they went to a vocational school, I highly doubt it, unless they put in the work themselves. I mean, since when was it even a college's job to provide a general education? I guess you can't just say it's an issue of the Economy. A college is supposed to give you a systematic overview of a specific field, plain and simple. 😕 I guess you could say high school is just there to give you some vague, general knowledge. You see the difference now, right? 😁 I guess the whole difference between having a high school diploma versus a college degree really just comes down to how deep you go into a subject—all that specialized stuff you don't bother teaching in high school. ☕
So, matter's complexity. I guess.
Jacob Wood9 Jacob Wood9 Active Member
62 messages
joined Jun 2008
#60 ·
hiddenhawk3 said:If they went to a prep school, they might have some basic general knowledge. If they went to a vocational school, I highly doubt it, unless they put in the work themselves. I mean, since when was it even a college's job to provide a general education? I guess you can't just say it's an issue of the Economy. A college is supposed to give you a systematic overview of a specific field, plain and simple. 😕 I guess you could say high school is just there to give you some vague, general knowledge. You see the difference now, right? 😁 I guess the whole difference between having a high school diploma versus a college degree really just comes down to how deep you go into a subject—all that specialized stuff you don't bother teaching in high school. ☕
So, matter's complexity. I guess.

Fair enough... but I still can't wrap my head around the idea that it’s acceptable for someone who presents themselves as an intellectual to actually be a narrow-minded ignorant. Whether they gained that knowledge at a university or picked it up through self-study shouldn't really matter; similarly, it is entirely within the rights of an employer to care whether a candidate is truly competent or not. It isn't their job to serve as a landing pad for half-baked products... and by the way... most of the questions regarding general culture that we're debating here tend to yield the most accurate answers.😍

It might be a minor detail, but I found myself fascinated once when, during a television segment, I saw a "farewell" letter from some British financier representing about three different banks. It was written in fountain pen, with calligraphy that looked like something out of the Middle Ages... and this was in the age of email and the internet. Meanwhile, we sit here complaining because we don't know how to use Excel, simply because, well, it wasn't explicitly part of the curriculum... and if it isn't, then apparently it's not enough.🙂

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