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Zen is everywhere

Started by jademarlin26 · · 👁 10 views · 86 replies

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driftingraven122 driftingraven122 Active Member
89 messages
joined Nov 2008
#41 ·
wiredbear2 said:thanks Crazy, thanks bluemason3 🙂

Today, my mind is feeling the direct impact of this cyclone, leaving me far, far away from any sense of samadhi... 😢 😵

Under this idea where the mind becomes the object, does it mean that consciousness essentially detaches from the mind, allowing the mind to then serve as the object of observation?

Yes. Essentially, you "grasp" an object with the mind. Constantly.

I intentionally try to forget I’ve ever even heard the terms mind, body, or consciousness—I just follow the feeling. When I hit that first level, there's this subtle blend of stillness, ease, and a sort of... "sacred" sensation. It’s like walking around and just gliding—never actually touching anything. 😬
bluemason3 bluemason3 Veteran
1.1K messages
joined Jun 2016
#42 ·
driftingraven122 said:Yes. Essentially, you "grasp" an object with the mind. Constantly.

I intentionally try to forget I’ve ever even heard the terms mind, body, or consciousness—I just follow the feeling. When I hit that first level, there's this subtle blend of stillness, ease, and a sort of... "sacred" sensation. It’s like walking around and just gliding—never actually touching anything. 😬

The trick is when you step out into the mud (like heading to work) and everything feels quieter, calmer, and slower 🤷... almost like it's under a muffler 😁 until you actually get to the office. 🙂 🤣
feralheron17 feralheron17 Member
12 messages
joined Mar 2009
#43 ·
It always cracks me up when some all-encompassing type, who clearly presents themselves as a supermarket Christian or just a convenience store Christian, whatever, starts rambling about nothingness and love.
A little intuition, a bit of bullshit, a slightly stronger aura, and suddenly they're a guru.
You can tell exactly how far someone has traveled by looking at them, and naturally, by the spiritual work they’ve actually done along the way. 😉
Spirituality isn't for everyone. Neither is meditation.
Žižek should probably stick to his own lane, because the further he wanders: the more he spouts nonsense.
If his legacy ends up being even a tenth of what people say about Suzuki, he's doing alright.
Let me be clear: Suzuki isn't some self-proclaimed Western classic or a guru who descended upon the West to enlighten the masses.
He wasn't Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who loved claiming he came to the West to calm down bad energies—as if things were worse here than in the East, though some Easterners would argue he could have calmed those energies from the East just as easily...
Buddhism is a massive science, a philosophy, a way of life.
Setting aside the fact that Christianity is totally irrelevant and the Bible is basically just a pile of accumulated, hybrid-stitched junk, Buddhism possesses a deep heritage and various lineages; not to mention there are texts over a thousand years old from Tibetan Buddhism.
Don't even get me started on the divisions between Mahayana, Theravada, and all the rest.
The only person where you could actually find "meditating on nothing" was Osho: he used to force his students to meditate on nothingness.
Tibetan Buddhism has an entire pantheon of deities: saints, adepts, lamas, travelers, sadhanists (there are plenty of names for them) within Buddhism, plus rituals dedicated to them—it's so much that the three major monotheistic religions couldn't catch up with all their holidays combined.
Maybe that's why Buddhism leans toward discarding mental concepts.
On the surface, it seems simple enough, but even highly realized lamas struggle to discard mental concepts.
Not everyone is cut out for the same Buddhist practices.
Even in the East, not everyone is ready for the path of Zen, or Mahayana, or Theravada, though these paths can be blended and practiced as dominant elements of one's life research.
If we're talking about conquests, Tibetan Buddhism isn't exempt: there isn't a single nation on Earth that hasn't had an aggressive war in its history.
But that's not the point of Zen.
To practice Buddhism, you obviously need to encounter authentic people; it develops incredible willpower, self-control, and discipline, along with concentration (which is minor compared to the other stuff).
Then there's Buddhist Tantra and Buddhist Kriya: I was personally surprised to find that Buddhism inherits such a wide array of practices that are predominantly Hindu.
And don't even get me started on the philosophy: in the US, there's no need to talk about Veljačić.
Anyway, back to Zen.
Zen, Chan, Dhyana, whatever you call it—it isn't meditating on nothing. It is: a) presence here (specifically *here*, not just "now" as Westerners reinterpret it, since Eastern cultures view here as having the connotation of now) in the external world; b) dedicated internal meditation—not on nothing or anything, but staying present externally while simultaneously not withdrawing the senses, but rather maintaining presence internally despite all external distractions, because sensory withdrawal isn't the goal: Buddhists withdraw all senses, so they can feel the blood flowing through their bodies during meditation; c) various other practices that can be, or not be, combined with Zen, such as Vipassana (which might imply concentration or breath focus, though traditionally it doesn't), Anapana (focus, attention, or concentration on the breath), mantra meditation, Tantric rituals, Kriya, certain Asanas (though Buddhism keeps this part pretty simple), etc., etc.
Zen will draw you in, especially once you live it in a temple.
You can't just be some internet fraud playing guru—scouring tarot cards, obsessing over the stars, and praying to angels—and then expect to walk into a Zen temple here in the States like Leonard Cohen did. It doesn't work that way. These places maintain a serious tradition of waking up at 4 a.m. and upholding everything inherited from those Japanese or Chinese Zen temples.
😉
jademarlin26 jademarlin26 Active MemberOP
158 messages
joined Sep 2008
#44 ·
feralheron17 said:It always cracks me up when some all-encompassing type, who clearly presents themselves as a supermarket Christian or just a convenience store Christian, whatever, starts rambling about nothingness and love.
A little intuition, a bit of bullshit, a slightly stronger aura, and suddenly they're a guru.
You can tell exactly how far someone has traveled by looking at them, and naturally, by the spiritual work they’ve actually done along the way. 😉
Spirituality isn't for everyone. Neither is meditation.
Žižek should probably stick to his own lane, because the further he wanders: the more he spouts nonsense.
If his legacy ends up being even a tenth of what people say about Suzuki, he's doing alright.
Let me be clear: Suzuki isn't some self-proclaimed Western classic or a guru who descended upon the West to enlighten the masses.
He wasn't Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who loved claiming he came to the West to calm down bad energies—as if things were worse here than in the East, though some Easterners would argue he could have calmed those energies from the East just as easily...
Buddhism is a massive science, a philosophy, a way of life.
Setting aside the fact that Christianity is totally irrelevant and the Bible is basically just a pile of accumulated, hybrid-stitched junk, Buddhism possesses a deep heritage and various lineages; not to mention there are texts over a thousand years old from Tibetan Buddhism.
Don't even get me started on the divisions between Mahayana, Theravada, and all the rest.
The only person where you could actually find "meditating on nothing" was Osho: he used to force his students to meditate on nothingness.
Tibetan Buddhism has an entire pantheon of deities: saints, adepts, lamas, travelers, sadhanists (there are plenty of names for them) within Buddhism, plus rituals dedicated to them—it's so much that the three major monotheistic religions couldn't catch up with all their holidays combined.
Maybe that's why Buddhism leans toward discarding mental concepts.
On the surface, it seems simple enough, but even highly realized lamas struggle to discard mental concepts.
Not everyone is cut out for the same Buddhist practices.
Even in the East, not everyone is ready for the path of Zen, or Mahayana, or Theravada, though these paths can be blended and practiced as dominant elements of one's life research.
If we're talking about conquests, Tibetan Buddhism isn't exempt: there isn't a single nation on Earth that hasn't had an aggressive war in its history.
But that's not the point of Zen.
To practice Buddhism, you obviously need to encounter authentic people; it develops incredible willpower, self-control, and discipline, along with concentration (which is minor compared to the other stuff).
Then there's Buddhist Tantra and Buddhist Kriya: I was personally surprised to find that Buddhism inherits such a wide array of practices that are predominantly Hindu.
And don't even get me started on the philosophy: in the US, there's no need to talk about Veljačić.
Anyway, back to Zen.
Zen, Chan, Dhyana, whatever you call it—it isn't meditating on nothing. It is: a) presence here (specifically *here*, not just "now" as Westerners reinterpret it, since Eastern cultures view here as having the connotation of now) in the external world; b) dedicated internal meditation—not on nothing or anything, but staying present externally while simultaneously not withdrawing the senses, but rather maintaining presence internally despite all external distractions, because sensory withdrawal isn't the goal: Buddhists withdraw all senses, so they can feel the blood flowing through their bodies during meditation; c) various other practices that can be, or not be, combined with Zen, such as Vipassana (which might imply concentration or breath focus, though traditionally it doesn't), Anapana (focus, attention, or concentration on the breath), mantra meditation, Tantric rituals, Kriya, certain Asanas (though Buddhism keeps this part pretty simple), etc., etc.
Zen will draw you in, especially once you live it in a temple.
You can't just be some internet fraud playing guru—scouring tarot cards, obsessing over the stars, and praying to angels—and then expect to walk into a Zen temple here in the States like Leonard Cohen did. It doesn't work that way. These places maintain a serious tradition of waking up at 4 a.m. and upholding everything inherited from those Japanese or Chinese Zen temples.
😉

They amuse me sincerely as well. I am quite grateful for them, as I wouldn't be here without them. 😉

feralheron17 said:It always cracks me up when some all-encompassing type, who clearly presents themselves as a supermarket Christian or just a convenience store Christian, whatever, starts rambling about nothingness and love.
A little intuition, a bit of bullshit, a slightly stronger aura, and suddenly they're a guru.
You can tell exactly how far someone has traveled by looking at them, and naturally, by the spiritual work they’ve actually done along the way. 😉
Spirituality isn't for everyone. Neither is meditation.
Žižek should probably stick to his own lane, because the further he wanders: the more he spouts nonsense.
If his legacy ends up being even a tenth of what people say about Suzuki, he's doing alright.
Let me be clear: Suzuki isn't some self-proclaimed Western classic or a guru who descended upon the West to enlighten the masses.
He wasn't Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who loved claiming he came to the West to calm down bad energies—as if things were worse here than in the East, though some Easterners would argue he could have calmed those energies from the East just as easily...
Buddhism is a massive science, a philosophy, a way of life.
Setting aside the fact that Christianity is totally irrelevant and the Bible is basically just a pile of accumulated, hybrid-stitched junk, Buddhism possesses a deep heritage and various lineages; not to mention there are texts over a thousand years old from Tibetan Buddhism.
Don't even get me started on the divisions between Mahayana, Theravada, and all the rest.
The only person where you could actually find "meditating on nothing" was Osho: he used to force his students to meditate on nothingness.
Tibetan Buddhism has an entire pantheon of deities: saints, adepts, lamas, travelers, sadhanists (there are plenty of names for them) within Buddhism, plus rituals dedicated to them—it's so much that the three major monotheistic religions couldn't catch up with all their holidays combined.
Maybe that's why Buddhism leans toward discarding mental concepts.
On the surface, it seems simple enough, but even highly realized lamas struggle to discard mental concepts.
Not everyone is cut out for the same Buddhist practices.
Even in the East, not everyone is ready for the path of Zen, or Mahayana, or Theravada, though these paths can be blended and practiced as dominant elements of one's life research.
If we're talking about conquests, Tibetan Buddhism isn't exempt: there isn't a single nation on Earth that hasn't had an aggressive war in its history.
But that's not the point of Zen.
To practice Buddhism, you obviously need to encounter authentic people; it develops incredible willpower, self-control, and discipline, along with concentration (which is minor compared to the other stuff).
Then there's Buddhist Tantra and Buddhist Kriya: I was personally surprised to find that Buddhism inherits such a wide array of practices that are predominantly Hindu.
And don't even get me started on the philosophy: in the US, there's no need to talk about Veljačić.
Anyway, back to Zen.
Zen, Chan, Dhyana, whatever you call it—it isn't meditating on nothing. It is: a) presence here (specifically *here*, not just "now" as Westerners reinterpret it, since Eastern cultures view here as having the connotation of now) in the external world; b) dedicated internal meditation—not on nothing or anything, but staying present externally while simultaneously not withdrawing the senses, but rather maintaining presence internally despite all external distractions, because sensory withdrawal isn't the goal: Buddhists withdraw all senses, so they can feel the blood flowing through their bodies during meditation; c) various other practices that can be, or not be, combined with Zen, such as Vipassana (which might imply concentration or breath focus, though traditionally it doesn't), Anapana (focus, attention, or concentration on the breath), mantra meditation, Tantric rituals, Kriya, certain Asanas (though Buddhism keeps this part pretty simple), etc., etc.
Zen will draw you in, especially once you live it in a temple.
You can't just be some internet fraud playing guru—scouring tarot cards, obsessing over the stars, and praying to angels—and then expect to walk into a Zen temple here in the States like Leonard Cohen did. It doesn't work that way. These places maintain a serious tradition of waking up at 4 a.m. and upholding everything inherited from those Japanese or Chinese Zen temples.
😉

A dangerous mantra. One might even call it a boundary that won't be easily crossed.

feralheron17 said:It always cracks me up when some all-encompassing type, who clearly presents themselves as a supermarket Christian or just a convenience store Christian, whatever, starts rambling about nothingness and love.
A little intuition, a bit of bullshit, a slightly stronger aura, and suddenly they're a guru.
You can tell exactly how far someone has traveled by looking at them, and naturally, by the spiritual work they’ve actually done along the way. 😉
Spirituality isn't for everyone. Neither is meditation.
Žižek should probably stick to his own lane, because the further he wanders: the more he spouts nonsense.
If his legacy ends up being even a tenth of what people say about Suzuki, he's doing alright.
Let me be clear: Suzuki isn't some self-proclaimed Western classic or a guru who descended upon the West to enlighten the masses.
He wasn't Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who loved claiming he came to the West to calm down bad energies—as if things were worse here than in the East, though some Easterners would argue he could have calmed those energies from the East just as easily...
Buddhism is a massive science, a philosophy, a way of life.
Setting aside the fact that Christianity is totally irrelevant and the Bible is basically just a pile of accumulated, hybrid-stitched junk, Buddhism possesses a deep heritage and various lineages; not to mention there are texts over a thousand years old from Tibetan Buddhism.
Don't even get me started on the divisions between Mahayana, Theravada, and all the rest.
The only person where you could actually find "meditating on nothing" was Osho: he used to force his students to meditate on nothingness.
Tibetan Buddhism has an entire pantheon of deities: saints, adepts, lamas, travelers, sadhanists (there are plenty of names for them) within Buddhism, plus rituals dedicated to them—it's so much that the three major monotheistic religions couldn't catch up with all their holidays combined.
Maybe that's why Buddhism leans toward discarding mental concepts.
On the surface, it seems simple enough, but even highly realized lamas struggle to discard mental concepts.
Not everyone is cut out for the same Buddhist practices.
Even in the East, not everyone is ready for the path of Zen, or Mahayana, or Theravada, though these paths can be blended and practiced as dominant elements of one's life research.
If we're talking about conquests, Tibetan Buddhism isn't exempt: there isn't a single nation on Earth that hasn't had an aggressive war in its history.
But that's not the point of Zen.
To practice Buddhism, you obviously need to encounter authentic people; it develops incredible willpower, self-control, and discipline, along with concentration (which is minor compared to the other stuff).
Then there's Buddhist Tantra and Buddhist Kriya: I was personally surprised to find that Buddhism inherits such a wide array of practices that are predominantly Hindu.
And don't even get me started on the philosophy: in the US, there's no need to talk about Veljačić.
Anyway, back to Zen.
Zen, Chan, Dhyana, whatever you call it—it isn't meditating on nothing. It is: a) presence here (specifically *here*, not just "now" as Westerners reinterpret it, since Eastern cultures view here as having the connotation of now) in the external world; b) dedicated internal meditation—not on nothing or anything, but staying present externally while simultaneously not withdrawing the senses, but rather maintaining presence internally despite all external distractions, because sensory withdrawal isn't the goal: Buddhists withdraw all senses, so they can feel the blood flowing through their bodies during meditation; c) various other practices that can be, or not be, combined with Zen, such as Vipassana (which might imply concentration or breath focus, though traditionally it doesn't), Anapana (focus, attention, or concentration on the breath), mantra meditation, Tantric rituals, Kriya, certain Asanas (though Buddhism keeps this part pretty simple), etc., etc.
Zen will draw you in, especially once you live it in a temple.
You can't just be some internet fraud playing guru—scouring tarot cards, obsessing over the stars, and praying to angels—and then expect to walk into a Zen temple here in the States like Leonard Cohen did. It doesn't work that way. These places maintain a serious tradition of waking up at 4 a.m. and upholding everything inherited from those Japanese or Chinese Zen temples.
😉

Žižek stuck strictly to his field when referencing the overt support for aggression where Chinese children were literally thrown into the air to meet Japanese bayonets, all while receiving the blessing of those wonderful people whose only arguments for existence are universal love and interpersonal tolerance—people for whom Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, or any other religious or spiritual path is merely a JOB. God save me from such people.

feralheron17 said:It always cracks me up when some all-encompassing type, who clearly presents themselves as a supermarket Christian or just a convenience store Christian, whatever, starts rambling about nothingness and love.
A little intuition, a bit of bullshit, a slightly stronger aura, and suddenly they're a guru.
You can tell exactly how far someone has traveled by looking at them, and naturally, by the spiritual work they’ve actually done along the way. 😉
Spirituality isn't for everyone. Neither is meditation.
Žižek should probably stick to his own lane, because the further he wanders: the more he spouts nonsense.
If his legacy ends up being even a tenth of what people say about Suzuki, he's doing alright.
Let me be clear: Suzuki isn't some self-proclaimed Western classic or a guru who descended upon the West to enlighten the masses.
He wasn't Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who loved claiming he came to the West to calm down bad energies—as if things were worse here than in the East, though some Easterners would argue he could have calmed those energies from the East just as easily...
Buddhism is a massive science, a philosophy, a way of life.
Setting aside the fact that Christianity is totally irrelevant and the Bible is basically just a pile of accumulated, hybrid-stitched junk, Buddhism possesses a deep heritage and various lineages; not to mention there are texts over a thousand years old from Tibetan Buddhism.
Don't even get me started on the divisions between Mahayana, Theravada, and all the rest.
The only person where you could actually find "meditating on nothing" was Osho: he used to force his students to meditate on nothingness.
Tibetan Buddhism has an entire pantheon of deities: saints, adepts, lamas, travelers, sadhanists (there are plenty of names for them) within Buddhism, plus rituals dedicated to them—it's so much that the three major monotheistic religions couldn't catch up with all their holidays combined.
Maybe that's why Buddhism leans toward discarding mental concepts.
On the surface, it seems simple enough, but even highly realized lamas struggle to discard mental concepts.
Not everyone is cut out for the same Buddhist practices.
Even in the East, not everyone is ready for the path of Zen, or Mahayana, or Theravada, though these paths can be blended and practiced as dominant elements of one's life research.
If we're talking about conquests, Tibetan Buddhism isn't exempt: there isn't a single nation on Earth that hasn't had an aggressive war in its history.
But that's not the point of Zen.
To practice Buddhism, you obviously need to encounter authentic people; it develops incredible willpower, self-control, and discipline, along with concentration (which is minor compared to the other stuff).
Then there's Buddhist Tantra and Buddhist Kriya: I was personally surprised to find that Buddhism inherits such a wide array of practices that are predominantly Hindu.
And don't even get me started on the philosophy: in the US, there's no need to talk about Veljačić.
Anyway, back to Zen.
Zen, Chan, Dhyana, whatever you call it—it isn't meditating on nothing. It is: a) presence here (specifically *here*, not just "now" as Westerners reinterpret it, since Eastern cultures view here as having the connotation of now) in the external world; b) dedicated internal meditation—not on nothing or anything, but staying present externally while simultaneously not withdrawing the senses, but rather maintaining presence internally despite all external distractions, because sensory withdrawal isn't the goal: Buddhists withdraw all senses, so they can feel the blood flowing through their bodies during meditation; c) various other practices that can be, or not be, combined with Zen, such as Vipassana (which might imply concentration or breath focus, though traditionally it doesn't), Anapana (focus, attention, or concentration on the breath), mantra meditation, Tantric rituals, Kriya, certain Asanas (though Buddhism keeps this part pretty simple), etc., etc.
Zen will draw you in, especially once you live it in a temple.
You can't just be some internet fraud playing guru—scouring tarot cards, obsessing over the stars, and praying to angels—and then expect to walk into a Zen temple here in the States like Leonard Cohen did. It doesn't work that way. These places maintain a serious tradition of waking up at 4 a.m. and upholding everything inherited from those Japanese or Chinese Zen temples.
😉

Defending D. T. Suzuki's work so vigorously is unnecessary; his influence on spreading Zen among women in the West is indisputable and obvious to anyone who has read his work.

feralheron17 said:It always cracks me up when some all-encompassing type, who clearly presents themselves as a supermarket Christian or just a convenience store Christian, whatever, starts rambling about nothingness and love.
A little intuition, a bit of bullshit, a slightly stronger aura, and suddenly they're a guru.
You can tell exactly how far someone has traveled by looking at them, and naturally, by the spiritual work they’ve actually done along the way. 😉
Spirituality isn't for everyone. Neither is meditation.
Žižek should probably stick to his own lane, because the further he wanders: the more he spouts nonsense.
If his legacy ends up being even a tenth of what people say about Suzuki, he's doing alright.
Let me be clear: Suzuki isn't some self-proclaimed Western classic or a guru who descended upon the West to enlighten the masses.
He wasn't Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who loved claiming he came to the West to calm down bad energies—as if things were worse here than in the East, though some Easterners would argue he could have calmed those energies from the East just as easily...
Buddhism is a massive science, a philosophy, a way of life.
Setting aside the fact that Christianity is totally irrelevant and the Bible is basically just a pile of accumulated, hybrid-stitched junk, Buddhism possesses a deep heritage and various lineages; not to mention there are texts over a thousand years old from Tibetan Buddhism.
Don't even get me started on the divisions between Mahayana, Theravada, and all the rest.
The only person where you could actually find "meditating on nothing" was Osho: he used to force his students to meditate on nothingness.
Tibetan Buddhism has an entire pantheon of deities: saints, adepts, lamas, travelers, sadhanists (there are plenty of names for them) within Buddhism, plus rituals dedicated to them—it's so much that the three major monotheistic religions couldn't catch up with all their holidays combined.
Maybe that's why Buddhism leans toward discarding mental concepts.
On the surface, it seems simple enough, but even highly realized lamas struggle to discard mental concepts.
Not everyone is cut out for the same Buddhist practices.
Even in the East, not everyone is ready for the path of Zen, or Mahayana, or Theravada, though these paths can be blended and practiced as dominant elements of one's life research.
If we're talking about conquests, Tibetan Buddhism isn't exempt: there isn't a single nation on Earth that hasn't had an aggressive war in its history.
But that's not the point of Zen.
To practice Buddhism, you obviously need to encounter authentic people; it develops incredible willpower, self-control, and discipline, along with concentration (which is minor compared to the other stuff).
Then there's Buddhist Tantra and Buddhist Kriya: I was personally surprised to find that Buddhism inherits such a wide array of practices that are predominantly Hindu.
And don't even get me started on the philosophy: in the US, there's no need to talk about Veljačić.
Anyway, back to Zen.
Zen, Chan, Dhyana, whatever you call it—it isn't meditating on nothing. It is: a) presence here (specifically *here*, not just "now" as Westerners reinterpret it, since Eastern cultures view here as having the connotation of now) in the external world; b) dedicated internal meditation—not on nothing or anything, but staying present externally while simultaneously not withdrawing the senses, but rather maintaining presence internally despite all external distractions, because sensory withdrawal isn't the goal: Buddhists withdraw all senses, so they can feel the blood flowing through their bodies during meditation; c) various other practices that can be, or not be, combined with Zen, such as Vipassana (which might imply concentration or breath focus, though traditionally it doesn't), Anapana (focus, attention, or concentration on the breath), mantra meditation, Tantric rituals, Kriya, certain Asanas (though Buddhism keeps this part pretty simple), etc., etc.
Zen will draw you in, especially once you live it in a temple.
You can't just be some internet fraud playing guru—scouring tarot cards, obsessing over the stars, and praying to angels—and then expect to walk into a Zen temple here in the States like Leonard Cohen did. It doesn't work that way. These places maintain a serious tradition of waking up at 4 a.m. and upholding everything inherited from those Japanese or Chinese Zen temples.
😉

Now, just ask yourself: what is the point of all this? If you can actually provide a sincere answer to that question, then your place is definitely in the temple.
jademarlin26 jademarlin26 Active MemberOP
158 messages
joined Sep 2008
#45 ·
wiredbear2 said:Are you referring to Pauline Christianity?

It all points to the fact that a single idea can spawn countless different interpretations... and that any concept, no matter how pure or sublime it may be, can be corrupted depending on who wields it and what their ultimate goals might be.

We shouldn't crucify the idea itself because of its misuse.
I mean, back in the early days of Christianity, who could have possibly imagined that a few hundred years later, there would be Crusades fought in the name of Christ?

I felt that same sense of shock when I realized how Zen was used to calm the minds of warriors just so they could kill more effectively later on... or, more modernly, as an exercise for Western corporate managers to help them make cold decisions about laying off employees...
It is living proof of how even the most noble tool becomes a lethal weapon when placed in the wrong hands.

Indeed.

wiredbear2 said:Are you referring to Pauline Christianity?

It all points to the fact that a single idea can spawn countless different interpretations... and that any concept, no matter how pure or sublime it may be, can be corrupted depending on who wields it and what their ultimate goals might be.

We shouldn't crucify the idea itself because of its misuse.
I mean, back in the early days of Christianity, who could have possibly imagined that a few hundred years later, there would be Crusades fought in the name of Christ?

I felt that same sense of shock when I realized how Zen was used to calm the minds of warriors just so they could kill more effectively later on... or, more modernly, as an exercise for Western corporate managers to help them make cold decisions about laying off employees...
It is living proof of how even the most noble tool becomes a lethal weapon when placed in the wrong hands.

It sometimes feels as though the stories themselves forget the very people who interpret and embody such ideas. In my view, Buddhism was an excellent concept that humanity simply turned into a circus.
wiredbear2 wiredbear2 Active Member
93 messages
joined Nov 2008
#46 ·
feralheron17 said:It always cracks me up when some all-encompassing type, who clearly presents themselves as a supermarket Christian or just a convenience store Christian, whatever, starts rambling about nothingness and love.
A little intuition, a bit of bullshit, a slightly stronger aura, and suddenly they're a guru.
You can tell exactly how far someone has traveled by looking at them, and naturally, by the spiritual work they’ve actually done along the way. 😉
Spirituality isn't for everyone. Neither is meditation.
Žižek should probably stick to his own lane, because the further he wanders: the more he spouts nonsense.
If his legacy ends up being even a tenth of what people say about Suzuki, he's doing alright.
Let me be clear: Suzuki isn't some self-proclaimed Western classic or a guru who descended upon the West to enlighten the masses.
He wasn't Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who loved claiming he came to the West to calm down bad energies—as if things were worse here than in the East, though some Easterners would argue he could have calmed those energies from the East just as easily...
Buddhism is a massive science, a philosophy, a way of life.
Setting aside the fact that Christianity is totally irrelevant and the Bible is basically just a pile of accumulated, hybrid-stitched junk, Buddhism possesses a deep heritage and various lineages; not to mention there are texts over a thousand years old from Tibetan Buddhism.
Don't even get me started on the divisions between Mahayana, Theravada, and all the rest.
The only person where you could actually find "meditating on nothing" was Osho: he used to force his students to meditate on nothingness.
Tibetan Buddhism has an entire pantheon of deities: saints, adepts, lamas, travelers, sadhanists (there are plenty of names for them) within Buddhism, plus rituals dedicated to them—it's so much that the three major monotheistic religions couldn't catch up with all their holidays combined.
Maybe that's why Buddhism leans toward discarding mental concepts.
On the surface, it seems simple enough, but even highly realized lamas struggle to discard mental concepts.
Not everyone is cut out for the same Buddhist practices.
Even in the East, not everyone is ready for the path of Zen, or Mahayana, or Theravada, though these paths can be blended and practiced as dominant elements of one's life research.
If we're talking about conquests, Tibetan Buddhism isn't exempt: there isn't a single nation on Earth that hasn't had an aggressive war in its history.
But that's not the point of Zen.
To practice Buddhism, you obviously need to encounter authentic people; it develops incredible willpower, self-control, and discipline, along with concentration (which is minor compared to the other stuff).
Then there's Buddhist Tantra and Buddhist Kriya: I was personally surprised to find that Buddhism inherits such a wide array of practices that are predominantly Hindu.
And don't even get me started on the philosophy: in the US, there's no need to talk about Veljačić.
Anyway, back to Zen.
Zen, Chan, Dhyana, whatever you call it—it isn't meditating on nothing. It is: a) presence here (specifically *here*, not just "now" as Westerners reinterpret it, since Eastern cultures view here as having the connotation of now) in the external world; b) dedicated internal meditation—not on nothing or anything, but staying present externally while simultaneously not withdrawing the senses, but rather maintaining presence internally despite all external distractions, because sensory withdrawal isn't the goal: Buddhists withdraw all senses, so they can feel the blood flowing through their bodies during meditation; c) various other practices that can be, or not be, combined with Zen, such as Vipassana (which might imply concentration or breath focus, though traditionally it doesn't), Anapana (focus, attention, or concentration on the breath), mantra meditation, Tantric rituals, Kriya, certain Asanas (though Buddhism keeps this part pretty simple), etc., etc.
Zen will draw you in, especially once you live it in a temple.
You can't just be some internet fraud playing guru—scouring tarot cards, obsessing over the stars, and praying to angels—and then expect to walk into a Zen temple here in the States like Leonard Cohen did. It doesn't work that way. These places maintain a serious tradition of waking up at 4 a.m. and upholding everything inherited from those Japanese or Chinese Zen temples.
😉

Buddhism in America. Zen in America. I find myself wondering how any of this actually works when you consider that most people interested in it aren't living in monasteries or having nothing to do but contemplate all day long. Does it even make sense, or is it absolutely necessary to withdraw from society entirely to truly enter into Zen?
On one hand, you have the busy American professional, and on the other, someone living in a temple with a completely different way of structuring their life...
How does one reconcile the demands of both worlds?
Well, this isn't just an issue for Buddhism or Zen, but rather for anyone trying to commit to spirituality in general...
Everything feels wonderful while we're reading the texts—we get lost in them, we understand them, they provide a sense of validation—but how do we actually move into practice? How do you discipline yourself and truly begin to meditate when you're standing before a day packed tight with the endless obligations of this world? 🤷

I want to point out that Americans are in a very specific position here, because even though meditation and various mental techniques have become quite popular, they didn't "grow" natively in this part of the world, and there's still this lingering sense that it's all somewhat of a passing fad...
wiredbear2 wiredbear2 Active Member
93 messages
joined Nov 2008
#47 ·
feralheron17 said:It always cracks me up when some all-encompassing type, who clearly presents themselves as a supermarket Christian or just a convenience store Christian, whatever, starts rambling about nothingness and love.
A little intuition, a bit of bullshit, a slightly stronger aura, and suddenly they're a guru.
You can tell exactly how far someone has traveled by looking at them, and naturally, by the spiritual work they’ve actually done along the way. 😉
Spirituality isn't for everyone. Neither is meditation.
Žižek should probably stick to his own lane, because the further he wanders: the more he spouts nonsense.
If his legacy ends up being even a tenth of what people say about Suzuki, he's doing alright.
Let me be clear: Suzuki isn't some self-proclaimed Western classic or a guru who descended upon the West to enlighten the masses.
He wasn't Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, who loved claiming he came to the West to calm down bad energies—as if things were worse here than in the East, though some Easterners would argue he could have calmed those energies from the East just as easily...
Buddhism is a massive science, a philosophy, a way of life.
Setting aside the fact that Christianity is totally irrelevant and the Bible is basically just a pile of accumulated, hybrid-stitched junk, Buddhism possesses a deep heritage and various lineages; not to mention there are texts over a thousand years old from Tibetan Buddhism.
Don't even get me started on the divisions between Mahayana, Theravada, and all the rest.
The only person where you could actually find "meditating on nothing" was Osho: he used to force his students to meditate on nothingness.
Tibetan Buddhism has an entire pantheon of deities: saints, adepts, lamas, travelers, sadhanists (there are plenty of names for them) within Buddhism, plus rituals dedicated to them—it's so much that the three major monotheistic religions couldn't catch up with all their holidays combined.
Maybe that's why Buddhism leans toward discarding mental concepts.
On the surface, it seems simple enough, but even highly realized lamas struggle to discard mental concepts.
Not everyone is cut out for the same Buddhist practices.
Even in the East, not everyone is ready for the path of Zen, or Mahayana, or Theravada, though these paths can be blended and practiced as dominant elements of one's life research.
If we're talking about conquests, Tibetan Buddhism isn't exempt: there isn't a single nation on Earth that hasn't had an aggressive war in its history.
But that's not the point of Zen.
To practice Buddhism, you obviously need to encounter authentic people; it develops incredible willpower, self-control, and discipline, along with concentration (which is minor compared to the other stuff).
Then there's Buddhist Tantra and Buddhist Kriya: I was personally surprised to find that Buddhism inherits such a wide array of practices that are predominantly Hindu.
And don't even get me started on the philosophy: in the US, there's no need to talk about Veljačić.
Anyway, back to Zen.
Zen, Chan, Dhyana, whatever you call it—it isn't meditating on nothing. It is: a) presence here (specifically *here*, not just "now" as Westerners reinterpret it, since Eastern cultures view here as having the connotation of now) in the external world; b) dedicated internal meditation—not on nothing or anything, but staying present externally while simultaneously not withdrawing the senses, but rather maintaining presence internally despite all external distractions, because sensory withdrawal isn't the goal: Buddhists withdraw all senses, so they can feel the blood flowing through their bodies during meditation; c) various other practices that can be, or not be, combined with Zen, such as Vipassana (which might imply concentration or breath focus, though traditionally it doesn't), Anapana (focus, attention, or concentration on the breath), mantra meditation, Tantric rituals, Kriya, certain Asanas (though Buddhism keeps this part pretty simple), etc., etc.
Zen will draw you in, especially once you live it in a temple.
You can't just be some internet fraud playing guru—scouring tarot cards, obsessing over the stars, and praying to angels—and then expect to walk into a Zen temple here in the States like Leonard Cohen did. It doesn't work that way. These places maintain a serious tradition of waking up at 4 a.m. and upholding everything inherited from those Japanese or Chinese Zen temples.
😉

I personally wouldn't want to compare the two, elevating one while casting doubt on the other.
It is widely understood that Žižek is a leftist atheist who views religion as largely redundant and even responsible for fostering an atmosphere of violence within society. In that context, he has touched upon Zen Buddhism, which is often perceived in the West as this universally peaceful religion, yet people tend to overlook the fact that the cold-blooded samurai warriors actually emerged from that very same Buddhist tradition. So, nothing is ever truly black and white, despite how popular it is to present it that way...
One really shouldn't debate religion with Žižek, as he genuinely believes the world would be a better place without it. While there might be some truth to his perspective, the reality of the matter is far more nuanced than that...
wiredbear2 wiredbear2 Active Member
93 messages
joined Nov 2008
#48 ·
bluemason3 said:The trick is when you step out into the mud (like heading to work) and everything feels quieter, calmer, and slower 🤷... almost like it's under a muffler 😁 until you actually get to the office. 🙂 🤣

Oh, I know that feeling all too well 😉 Even though I'm finding it much easier lately to maintain some level of mental composure while I'm on the clock, I am still nowhere near achieving true, deep serenity.
That is exactly why I brought up the tension between the typical Western lifestyle and genuine spirituality...
Joseph Davis5 Joseph Davis5 Active Member
56 messages
joined Sep 2003
#49 ·
wiredbear2 said:Buddhism in America. Zen in America. I find myself wondering how any of this actually works when you consider that most people interested in it aren't living in monasteries or having nothing to do but contemplate all day long. Does it even make sense, or is it absolutely necessary to withdraw from society entirely to truly enter into Zen?
On one hand, you have the busy American professional, and on the other, someone living in a temple with a completely different way of structuring their life...
How does one reconcile the demands of both worlds?
Well, this isn't just an issue for Buddhism or Zen, but rather for anyone trying to commit to spirituality in general...
Everything feels wonderful while we're reading the texts—we get lost in them, we understand them, they provide a sense of validation—but how do we actually move into practice? How do you discipline yourself and truly begin to meditate when you're standing before a day packed tight with the endless obligations of this world? 🤷

I want to point out that Americans are in a very specific position here, because even though meditation and various mental techniques have become quite popular, they didn't "grow" natively in this part of the world, and there's still this lingering sense that it's all somewhat of a passing fad...

wiredbear2, you asked a good question. A vital one. How does anyone actually establish a steady practice in this modern, frantic, scattered world? It isn’t easy to answer. Still, looking back at the last century since Buddhism arrived in the West, I think we’ve started to see some potential answers emerging. It is always difficult to gain perspective on something so brief when you're dealing with a tradition that has maintained continuity for over 2,000 years. What might help us is observing how Buddhism was transmitted through time and space. If we look closely, the problems and situations Buddhism addresses—the ones it has encountered throughout the centuries—are essentially universal.
When Buddhism first arrived in China during the first and second centuries, it collided with an established social order built on Confucianism and Taoism. It’s pretty obvious that Indian idealistic Buddhism had to adapt if it wanted to survive those new circumstances. It changed, sure, but it managed to hold onto that core vitality brought by Indian mystics like Nagarjuna, Ashvaghosha, Shantideva, Paramartha, Bodhidharma, and others. By the time Bai Zhang introduced his "pure rules" to the monastic order—where a day without work meant a day without food—the old image of a monk wandering door-to-door, preaching Dharma and receiving food in a wooden bowl, was already a distant memory. You see similar shifts elsewhere, too; look at how Bon religion influenced Tibetan Buddhism, or how Shintoism shaped things in Japan.
We in the West have this habit of romanticizing and idealizing everything that comes from the East, yet it’s just as interesting to observe how the East views the West.
We tend to fall into this trap of thinking that practice requires these perfect, impossible conditions—conditions that feel unattainable here in the rugged terrain of the American West. It becomes an excuse to not even try, convinced that any effort is doomed from the start. We also harbor these highly idealized notions of how a true practitioner of Zen or Chan should look, talk, and act. So, naturally, everyone we run into seems like a total poser—someone who read two books, meditated twice, and now acts like they’re some Zen master just to feed their own ego.
That isn't always the case, though. If you look through the biographies of any master from the golden age of Chan, you'll see they all endured a grueling path of misery, ignorance, and doubt before finally passing through the "doorless gate." One master even remarked that Zen is nothing more than making mistake after mistake.
In that sense, it’s vital that we get our footing before we even start practicing. We shouldn't be judging a destination we haven't even set out for, nor should we be sitting around waiting for some specific outcome we've decided ought to happen.
Zen practice isn't just about sitting on a cushion. It actually involves informal ways of practicing that constitute what people call "living Zen." This doesn't mean stepping away from your daily routine; if anything, it’s about integrating the practice directly into it.
Even here in the States, if you’re lucky enough to live near major hubs like New York, Chicago, or Los Angeles, there are Buddhist groups you can join. A Sangha plays an incredibly vital role in sustaining practice; without one, establishing a consistent daily routine is difficult. There are also several solid practitioners and teachers available to guide us through the methods and the Dharma. If we trust ourselves, grasp the fundamental concepts underpinning Buddhist practice, have confidence in our teachers, and lean on the support of the Sangha, it is highly likely that—given enough time—we will succeed in harmonizing the mind and body. Doing so opens up an entirely new perspective. The world, which might currently feel like a series of obstacles, begins to look like a realm of possibilities. And we haven't even reached enlightenment yet.
feralheron17 feralheron17 Member
12 messages
joined Mar 2009
#50 ·
wiredbear2 said:Buddhism in America. Zen in America. I find myself wondering how any of this actually works when you consider that most people interested in it aren't living in monasteries or having nothing to do but contemplate all day long. Does it even make sense, or is it absolutely necessary to withdraw from society entirely to truly enter into Zen?
On one hand, you have the busy American professional, and on the other, someone living in a temple with a completely different way of structuring their life...
How does one reconcile the demands of both worlds?
Well, this isn't just an issue for Buddhism or Zen, but rather for anyone trying to commit to spirituality in general...
Everything feels wonderful while we're reading the texts—we get lost in them, we understand them, they provide a sense of validation—but how do we actually move into practice? How do you discipline yourself and truly begin to meditate when you're standing before a day packed tight with the endless obligations of this world? 🤷

I want to point out that Americans are in a very specific position here, because even though meditation and various mental techniques have become quite popular, they didn't "grow" natively in this part of the world, and there's still this lingering sense that it's all somewhat of a passing fad...

Thanks for taking the time to reply after jademarlin26, even if it took a bit of a break.
It seems like he shows up by default, or maybe I'm wrong...
Perhaps it's mainly because I don't even bother engaging in deeper discussions about spiritual matters.
Great people are pretty simple. They don't argue much. They give a lot, ask for very little in return, and usually don't fit the concept we expect of them.
The self-proclaimed types, though? They usually fall below my level of intuition.
So, I wouldn't know how to answer you.
I read books. I haven't met anyone in person yet, and I feel enlightened whenever I see someone online write that Zen isn't just zazen.
I think Gandhi once said, if I recall correctly, that the idea of the West sounded good to him.
This note of yours, and the other notes I stumble upon regarding Žižek online, look like apologetics to me: either someone is sending them via DM, or people are sitting in front of screens transcribing directly from an author's books, or they're just typing nonsense without knowing what they're saying.
The West is better off, as someone wisely once suggested, leaving the East alone: lest it receives something far worse than the samurai.
The samurai had an honorable code, which just fits into my earlier point that everyone was a warrior—even Tibetan Buddhists.
But we are talking about the philosophy of spirituality here, even in terms of the samurai code, let alone Zen.
☕
Andrew Booth12 Andrew Booth12 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Jan 2009
#51 ·
You don't need to retreat to some remote monastery just to practice or live
Zen. What you eat and how you eat it is Zen,
how you walk, how you speak or what you say, how you work or what you do—
it can all be Zen, but then again, it doesn't have to be.

We really need to distinguish between the historical school of Zen that has evolved through the ages
—which left its most significant mark in Japan—and this universal concept of Zen that is currently
spreading across the globe, primarily among artists and intellectuals, along with a massive
army of curious seekers. And who should we credit for this spread? Professor Suzuki,
who wasn't even a member of any specific Buddhist school, but rather a university professor.

Furthermore, Buddha isn't some mythical figure; he was a real person, much like Jesus Christ.
The difference is that Catholics hold Jesus to be the Son of God, whereas Buddhists don't necessarily think
of Buddha as God, nor do they deny God's existence. They simply don't
concern themselves with Him. Instead, they focus on themselves, following that old principle of "help yourself first..."

I recently read yet another piece of nonsense claiming that Zen is "nothing"—that Zen is nothingness. That's complete rubbish! Zen is actually
everything. People fall into this trap because both Zen and Buddha's teachings
speak of emptiness. Narrow-minded, limited Westerners mistakenly equate emptiness
with nihilism, which is fundamentally wrong. Emptiness isn't nothingness; quite the opposite, it is fullness.
It is everything, because everything arises from emptiness—all our thoughts, everything we can imagine, and even
that which we cannot. This emptiness is just like Billy's Sport bag.
Paul Campbell3 Paul Campbell3 Regular
259 messages
joined Feb 2004
#52 ·
The silence that speaks 🙂
mistybison mistybison Regular
495 messages
joined Aug 2008
#53 ·
wiredbear2 said:It seems to me that there are two distinct types of people out there. There’s the Eastern approach, which is rooted in rigorous, formal training, and then there’s the Western crowd—the ones who love to sit around philosophizing about Zen without ever actually doing the work... So, who’s actually getting it right? Is it all just performative? It feels like everything else that drifted over from the East has been stripped down, Americanized, and filled with useless fluff 😁 at least, if you ask me...

I recall Žižek offering a rather intriguing perspective on why Zen has become such a phenomenon in the West, which he touched upon in his book 'Violence.' I’ll have to dig that up again to refresh my memory on his exact argument.

My own expertise in this area is admittedly limited to having read D. T. Suzuki, and that’s really about it. From what I gathered, Zen is essentially Nothingness. Emptiness. Zero. A total void. Fuck 😁

I am currently reading Vladimir Devide's book, 'Japanese Haiku Poetry,' and the author points out that people in the West often confuse Zen Buddhism with Japanese Zen. Zen Buddhism is a specific school of Buddhism directly linked to the original teachings, whereas Japanese Zen represents a unique perspective on life and reality. While not exclusively Japanese, it found its most fertile ground within the Japanese people. This understanding has permeated all of Japanese art, culture, customs, and lifestyle, even influencing the language itself. It centers on valuing the immediate, direct experience of reality. In Japanese art and language, everything is full of suggestion, incompleteness, emptiness, and freedom of interpretation; the artist merely provides a sketch, leaving the observer to fill it in with their own colors and shapes. The artist's role is to convey a direct experience of reality as clearly as possible, which can only happen if the subject (the artist) "expands" to encompass the object (the subject of the poem, song, or painting), until both subject and object vanish and become mere instruments through which reality unfolds. 🙂 When a poet writes about a cherry blossom, they ARE the cherry blossom, choosing words that transport the reader into a direct experience of that bloom. They don't interpret, analyze, or intellectualize the experience—they simply live it. They ARE the experience. 🙂

However, in the Japanese view, Zen isn't unbridled freedom or anarchy, as we tend to interpret it in the West; it is quite the opposite. A Japanese person "cuts away" everything superfluous and excessive to reach the very essence of a thing, becoming that essence to express it through their work. This is why Japanese arts like ikebana, haiku, Noh theater, tea ceremonies, and calligraphy require years of disciplined practice. One must prune away all the "excess" until the artist is capable of becoming what they represent. There is a saying regarding haiku instruction: "Practice for ten years to be the bamboo, become the bamboo, and then forget everything you learned about bamboo." 🙂

I believe that when we talk about Zen in the West, we are actually talking about "Japanese Zen." It feels familiar to us because it is part of the human condition, even if our cultures haven't developed it to the extent seen in Japan, where it is a fundamental way of living and perceiving reality. Because we are taught to value intellect, interpretation, luxury, and abundance, we find Zen fascinating precisely because it is the opposite of all those things. Zen touches that small, somewhat stunted part of our souls. 😉
Andrew Booth12 Andrew Booth12 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Jan 2009
#54 ·
Enchantress, that is exactly what I was getting at in my previous comment
Edward Flores4 Edward Flores4 Regular
428 messages
joined Mar 2008
#55 ·
feralheron17 said:Thanks for taking the time to reply after jademarlin26, even if it took a bit of a break.
It seems like he shows up by default, or maybe I'm wrong...
Perhaps it's mainly because I don't even bother engaging in deeper discussions about spiritual matters.
Great people are pretty simple. They don't argue much. They give a lot, ask for very little in return, and usually don't fit the concept we expect of them.
The self-proclaimed types, though? They usually fall below my level of intuition.
So, I wouldn't know how to answer you.
I read books. I haven't met anyone in person yet, and I feel enlightened whenever I see someone online write that Zen isn't just zazen.
I think Gandhi once said, if I recall correctly, that the idea of the West sounded good to him.
This note of yours, and the other notes I stumble upon regarding Žižek online, look like apologetics to me: either someone is sending them via DM, or people are sitting in front of screens transcribing directly from an author's books, or they're just typing nonsense without knowing what they're saying.
The West is better off, as someone wisely once suggested, leaving the East alone: lest it receives something far worse than the samurai.
The samurai had an honorable code, which just fits into my earlier point that everyone was a warrior—even Tibetan Buddhists.
But we are talking about the philosophy of spirituality here, even in terms of the samurai code, let alone Zen.
☕

I have two questions here:

1) What exactly do you mean by "great people"—what’s the metric for their "greatness"?
2) And what does it even mean to write something "online"?

I think Gandhi said that the idea of the West sounds good to him, if I'm paraphrasing correctly.

Regarding the West's civilization, he mentioned he thought it would be a good idea.

When you paraphrase him like that without highlighting the specific question he was actually answering, it ends up sounding like a condemnation of the West, whereas it was actually a critique of Western hypocrisy rather than a critique of the West itself.

But look, Gandhi said plenty of great things, so it's really a shame you're focusing your attention on just those partial quotes that serve your argument when taken out of context. Because your "avoidance of discussion" doesn't align at all with Gandhi, who, among other things, said:

"Honest disagreement is often a good sign of progress."

"One needs to be slow to form convictions, but once formed they must be defended against the heaviest odds."

So, if honest disagreement is a sign of progress, then your drive for total consensus—in Gandhian terms—is a sign of stagnation, and your reluctance to defend your own carefully considered views is anything but commendable.

These notes of yours—and honestly, some of the other notes I read about Žižek online—look like pure apologetics to me: either someone is sending them via DM, or someone is sitting in front of a screen mindlessly copying from the author's books, or they're just typing whatever comes to mind without knowing what they're actually saying.

It’s interesting how you accuse others of exactly what you’re doing. You’re the one selectively using Gandhi's quotes, regurgitating them "online" without any real understanding, solely as a way to defend your own biases, all while acting in direct opposition to the very philosophy you're using as an excuse.

Psychologists call this "projecting" one's own flaws onto an interlocutor, but to me, it just looks like hypocrisy. It's clear you know these deceptive techniques and apologetic maneuvers inside and out, so it’s easiest for you to project them onto others—accusing everyone else of "online" writing in the hopes that no one notices the inconsistencies and contradictions in your own "online" exchanges.

Well done 😉
Andrew Booth12 Andrew Booth12 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Jan 2009
#56 ·
...an old Chinese melody that hints at everything left unsaid...

Mount Lu shrouded in a veil of rain; the Che River running wild.
Whenever I was away, the longing for that peace kept me restless!
I traveled there and I returned... But nothing was promised on those grounds:
Mount Lu shrouded in a veil of rain; the Che River running wild.

I bow my head in humility🙂
jademarlin26 jademarlin26 Active MemberOP
158 messages
joined Sep 2008
#57 ·
To Chinese song suggests to me that axis mundi is wherever you happen to be. There is nothing unspeakable about it.
Andrew Booth12 Andrew Booth12 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Jan 2009
#58 ·
Well, just say it then,
Are you confirming those 30 strikes or are you denying them? 😉
shadowpuma42 shadowpuma42 Newcomer
1 message
joined Mar 2009
#59 ·
Give me a decent cup of tea instead... for crying out loud
Arthur Grant4 Arthur Grant4 Member
34 messages
joined Sep 2005
#60 ·
A normal mind is a peaceful mind.
But if you try to force that, you're just gonna miss the mark. Break through to that state of non-doing instead, and the path will open up—wide, clear, and ready for you.

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