European Court of Human Rights: Is wearing a red star a fundamental human right?

Following an appeal from a Canadian individual who was being prosecuted for displaying a notorious symbol of communist dictatorship, the European Court of Human Rights has ruled that this constitutes a fundamental human right.

LINK

I honestly can't wrap my head around how wearing a symbol associated with some of the most horrific crimes and mass killings in global history could ever be classified as a fundamental human right... 👎

I wonder if you can get away with wearing Vermaht symbols in Europe without getting arrested. I already know the deal with the Ustas; in America, you’d be headed straight to jail for that kind of stuff.

If the European Court of Human Rights decides that far-right symbols aren't allowed—even when, in my view, they caused way less harm to humanity than the bloody star did—then it just proves how biased toward Marxism everything still is. It would basically be another violation of the right to dissent.

This decision is truly shameful.

If some Canadian guy showed up wearing a swastika, I’m pretty sure the ELJP would just shrug it off. They’d probably pull some nonsense line about how "Canada has proven itself to be a rock-solid democracy over the last two decades, so there's absolutely zero risk of any political party trying to bring back a fascist dictatorship."
Well, let's see if those idiots actually stay consistent when things get messy.
There’s already a dictatorship running rampant in Europe—one where sporting a picture of Mao, the literal definition of a mass murderer, is treated like some trendy, edgy little phase for teenagers—and that dictatorship is nothing more than the selective, gatekeeping tyranny of this hypocritical, fake version of liberalism we deal with.

It’s wild how similar things are here in the States—it’s basically anti-fascism equals communism. 🙂

velvetgardener5 said:Following an appeal from a Canadian individual who was being prosecuted for displaying a notorious symbol of communist dictatorship, the European Court of Human Rights has ruled that this constitutes a fundamental human right.

LINK

I honestly can't wrap my head around how wearing a symbol associated with some of the most horrific crimes and mass killings in global history could ever be classified as a fundamental human right... 👎

And what exactly do you propose we do about it? How would one even go about banning a symbol?
There are countless nations that feature a red star on their flag. If we were to ban the red star, it would be an affront to millions of Algerians and Tunisians who have absolutely nothing to do with the crimes that certain individuals associate with that emblem.
☕

Joshua Diaz10 said:And what exactly do you propose we do about it? How would one even go about banning a symbol?
There are countless nations that feature a red star on their flag. If we were to ban the red star, it would be an affront to millions of Algerians and Tunisians who have absolutely nothing to do with the crimes that certain individuals associate with that emblem.
☕

And wouldn't banning the swastika be considered an insult to Indians?
We have all seen what happens when someone draws any kind of swastika... nobody stops to ask which direction it's facing before they send you straight to jail...

Taking a quick glance at the current flags of various nations, I’ve noticed a whole lot of random stars, and man, there's a ridiculous amount of red everywhere. To be fair, though, I didn't spot a single swastika.

Larry Turner3 said:And wouldn't banning the swastika be considered an insult to Indians?
We have all seen what happens when someone draws any kind of swastika... nobody stops to ask which direction it's facing before they send you straight to jail...

It isn't.
Because I personally haven't heard of anyone in the States being thrown behind bars just for using religious symbols, though perhaps you have some insider knowledge I'm lacking.

The ruling: http://cmiskp.echr.coe.int////tkp197...ttachment=true
To really get what's going on here, you'll want to focus on the paragraphs from number 50 down.

goldensailor15 said:Taking a quick glance at the current flags of various nations, I’ve noticed a whole lot of random stars, and man, there's a ridiculous amount of red everywhere. To be fair, though, I didn't spot a single swastika.

Oh, right, so if we just assume the flag is the one and only symbol that actually carries weight for people—even though it's used on the historical flag of Sicily too, BTW—is that just because you said so?
So, does that mean this down here is just made up?
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Swastika
Come on, people, try to grasp the fundamental principle here. If a symbol belongs to a totalitarian regime, and they use it specifically to glorify that regime (which is exactly what that Canadian guy did), then it is a symbol of totalitarianism, murder, and genocide.
If someone tries to claim it has some other meaning, they better have a solid, well-argued case for it. That wasn't the situation here. Even the ECHR ruling confirms that the specific Canadian man wasn't carrying it to honor some ancient tradition, but rather to glorify that failed, murderous regime; plus, it shows that Canada is a decent enough democracy that it can't allow the resurrection of a regime that brought so much evil and death to both Canadians and the rest of the world.
Learn how to actually debate instead of just digging yourselves into ideological trenches.
Period.

Thomas Williams59 said:Oh, right, so if we just assume the flag is the one and only symbol that actually carries weight for people—even though it's used on the historical flag of Sicily too, BTW—is that just because you said so?
So, does that mean this down here is just made up?
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Swastika
Come on, people, try to grasp the fundamental principle here. If a symbol belongs to a totalitarian regime, and they use it specifically to glorify that regime (which is exactly what that Canadian guy did), then it is a symbol of totalitarianism, murder, and genocide.
If someone tries to claim it has some other meaning, they better have a solid, well-argued case for it. That wasn't the situation here. Even the ECHR ruling confirms that the specific Canadian man wasn't carrying it to honor some ancient tradition, but rather to glorify that failed, murderous regime; plus, it shows that Canada is a decent enough democracy that it can't allow the resurrection of a regime that brought so much evil and death to both Canadians and the rest of the world.
Learn how to actually debate instead of just digging yourselves into ideological trenches.
Period.

Just read the ruling yourself. You'll see it shows the exact opposite.

Thomas Williams59 said:Oh, right, so if we just assume the flag is the one and only symbol that actually carries weight for people—even though it's used on the historical flag of Sicily too, BTW—is that just because you said so?
So, does that mean this down here is just made up?
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Swastika
Come on, people, try to grasp the fundamental principle here. If a symbol belongs to a totalitarian regime, and they use it specifically to glorify that regime (which is exactly what that Canadian guy did), then it is a symbol of totalitarianism, murder, and genocide.
If someone tries to claim it has some other meaning, they better have a solid, well-argued case for it. That wasn't the situation here. Even the ECHR ruling confirms that the specific Canadian man wasn't carrying it to honor some ancient tradition, but rather to glorify that failed, murderous regime; plus, it shows that Canada is a decent enough democracy that it can't allow the resurrection of a regime that brought so much evil and death to both Canadians and the rest of the world.
Learn how to actually debate instead of just digging yourselves into ideological trenches.
Period.

I never claimed any symbols were exclusive or held some absolute meaning for everyone. But since you want to go there, a national flag is the most vital symbol a citizen has. It’s been sung about countless times; our own flag is all over our songs. Or am I wrong? And looking at the flags of the major powers around the world, I haven't spotted a swastika anywhere.

Whether you're talking about stars or swastikas, the point remains: the swastika doesn't show up in that link I posted above, whereas you can definitely find the star (including the red one) somewhere.
And that link doesn't show flags from some ancient history; it shows the flags of nations as they exist today.

Ryan Vaughn7 said:Just read the ruling yourself. You'll see it shows the exact opposite.

I know what I'm talking about, even if you're twisting things because the ruling actually goes in Vajnai's favor regarding his right to be considered politically free (since he wasn't using it for any other purpose) when it comes to promoting the red star, and the idea that it won't drag Canada back into totalitarianism.
But look, I really hope you mean it when you tell people to read the ruling, because if you actually look at the facts, the court established that this vice president of an ultra-left political party was wearing a red star on his jacket specifically for political purposes—not anything else! He was at a public political rally, protesting right where a statue of Karl Marx, the father of communism, was standing.
Vajnai doesn't hide the fact that he was spreading communism—and in his own arguments to the court, which you can clearly read in the verdict, he claims, and I quote, "that the promotion of communism is not prohibited by international law."

What part of this aren't you guys getting, especially when it comes to these dark flags and little fairy tales?
And as far as flags and symbols go (which isn't even the point here, because Vajnai used the red star to promote communism, period), they obviously aren't the only important symbols in the lives of people on this planet, and there's nothing left to debate about this nonsense (even though, according to some folks on this forum, someone from Sicily who proudly flies their historical flag would clearly be a fascist), where someone like "goldensailor15" tries to shove his personal opinion down everyone's throats like it's some holy standard. It isn't. A cross doesn't have to be on every single flag for it to be a universally recognized symbol in Christianity... uh...

I’m genuinely curious about something: could I build a massive house here in the States and mount a huge golden swastika right on the front facade, all while claiming it's actually a Buddhist temple meant to represent peace and love? And then, just to complete the look, I'd hang flags all around the perimeter featuring the same symbol. 😕🤷

Joshua Diaz10 said:It isn't.
Because I personally haven't heard of anyone in the States being thrown behind bars just for using religious symbols, though perhaps you have some insider knowledge I'm lacking.

If you look at the thread about students in Miami, there are examples from Europe where people ended up in the dean's office for drawing a Buddhist or Hindu swastika...
By the way, a Buddhist swastika was drawn in Miami too, and it caused a massive uproar across the whole country. It didn't even have "Heil Hitler" or anything like that written next to it.🤷

Also, I recall that last year, a fashion collection from either a manga brand or maybe Topshop—I can't say for sure—released a line of handbags inspired by India. These bags featured small swastika patterns, which caused a massive uproar among Americans. Consequently, the entire line was pulled from the shelves.
Poor Indians.
Why shouldn't they be allowed to carry their own bags just because of Hitler, with whom they have absolutely no connection?

velvetgardener5 said:I’m genuinely curious about something: could I build a massive house here in the States and mount a huge golden swastika right on the front facade, all while claiming it's actually a Buddhist temple meant to represent peace and love? And then, just to complete the look, I'd hang flags all around the perimeter featuring the same symbol. 😕🤷

No, you can't ☕.

Larry Turner3 said:If you look at the thread about students in Miami, there are examples from Europe where people ended up in the dean's office for drawing a Buddhist or Hindu swastika...
By the way, a Buddhist swastika was drawn in Miami too, and it caused a massive uproar across the whole country. It didn't even have "Heil Hitler" or anything like that written next to it.🤷

My position remains unchanged: I do not support banning the swastika when it is used strictly as a religious symbol.🙂
Outside of a religious context, however, it is perfectly obvious—unless you are a blind man with a low IQ—why that symbol is utilized in Europe today. It serves as a call for violence, a tool for hate speech, or simply a crude provocation.
Thank God we aren't living in the era of the so-called Poglavnik; at least we still have institutions in place to determine who has actually broken the law and how.🙂

Stop chasing after a lost cause.

The court’s reasoning was actually quite clear: an individual has the right to display whatever symbols they choose, SUBJECT TO CERTAIN SPECIFIC EXCEPTIONS.

Nazi symbols fall under those specific exceptions. So, I guess it doesn't make much sense to compare them to any other types of symbols. Quite simply, the rules just don't apply the same way. That's all there is to it.