Getting way too soft/tolerant lately

tatyana39 said:I think the way you laid that out suggests this isn't really an issue of intolerance, but rather just basic human fallibility.

Yeah, we’re talking about that massive gap between what they claim to stand for and how they actually act in the real world. 🙂

Emily Hayes said:"Being tolerant" sounds like such a beautiful, noble concept. But honestly? It’s incredibly easy to be tolerant toward things that feel worlds away from your own life.

I don't want to paint everyone with the same brush or make sweeping generalizations about "everyone," so instead, I'll just share something deeply personal from my own life.

I always believed—truly, I did—that I was an open-minded person and that being gay was perfectly fine. That was until a close friend of mine came out to me, and it felt like a bolt of lightning had struck my brain. In that moment, I realized just how many subconscious biases I actually held. It turns out it's remarkably easy to preach "live and let live" when the reality isn't knocking on your own front door.
He is still a wonderful friend today, and honestly, we’ve both grown immensely through our respective relationships. But back then, it was something I truly had to work to accept and adjust to. I had to do some serious internal heavy lifting to dismantle my own supposed liberalism and realize that accepting difference is one thing when it's happening somewhere else, but it's a completely different beast when it hits home.

(Just to be crystal clear, I wasn't trying to pressure him to "change" or anything like that 😁 😁 😁)

As for today, all I know is that I am constantly striving to be tolerant and progressive. But I also know that I haven't quite reached that goal yet. Because if a Muslim colleague were to invite me over to his house and drop me into a world that is fundamentally different from mine, I know I wouldn't have all the answers immediately. It would take some time. I think the only real difference between people is that some will take the necessary time to process and embrace diversity, while others will simply reject it outright.

What exactly am I supposed to be spending my time on?
Is it about understanding, or just learning to accept it?
Comparing differences to me feels a lot like eye accommodation—just a standard, natural process.
You probably accepted their existence in the first place, right up until the moment you "allowed" them the chance to walk through your front door. 🙂

brightstag9 said:Interesting question. If I’m following you, you’re looking for consistency. Basically, the double standards are what’s getting under your skin. To actually have consistent views and a coherent worldview, you pretty much need two things: first, people have to actually think for themselves, and second, they have to stay objective. In my experience, 95% of people don't think for themselves at all; they just adopt whatever script their group hands them—whether it's a political party, a religious sect, or whatever. On top of that, the media manufactures public opinion, and people just swallow it whole without a second thought.
Being objective is also incredibly hard for a ton of different reasons. If you're interested, check out this article http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/conten.../320/5880/1177

You put that pretty well...

Sandra Parker3 said:Yeah, we’re talking about that massive gap between what they claim to stand for and how they actually act in the real world. 🙂

What exactly am I supposed to be spending my time on?
Is it about understanding, or just learning to accept it?
Comparing differences to me feels a lot like eye accommodation—just a standard, natural process.
You probably accepted their existence in the first place, right up until the moment you "allowed" them the chance to walk through your front door. 🙂

Honestly, both.
There is a massive difference between knowing something on paper and actually living it. When I say someone is "different," I just mean they aren't like me. In theory, I accept all five of those points without blinking.
But it’s only when you actually come face-to-face with that difference that it becomes "real."

And look, I don't mean that this difference is inherently bad, or that I have to be some saintly, big-hearted person who "tolerates" someone being different.
It’s more about the fact that we all have these internal default settings. Even if we are fully aware that other ways of living exist, and even if we say we accept them intellectually, it’s only when we hit a situation where our defaults clash with reality that we get the chance to integrate those deviations into our mental framework.

For instance, I completely accept that one of my buddies is gay. But the first time I actually see him hooking up with a guy, it’s still going to catch me off guard (much like how I felt when my gay girlfriends, who had been together for years, started kissing right in front of me 😁). It’s not that I didn't know; it’s just that I wasn't used to seeing it.

EDIT.
Here is another example.
Today on the bus, a young man and an older woman got on. He was incredibly gentle, helping her find a seat and then sitting down right next to her. I was watching them with this soft, warm feeling because I’m just not used to seeing that kind of tenderness toward a mother figure (or maybe a grandmother?) in public. And then, he reached out, put his hand on her knee, and kissed her. I was absolutely floored.
It wasn't because I think an age gap like that is wrong for a relationship. It was simply because it wasn't what I consider "normal" to witness. A few minutes later, once my brain finished processing everything and the metaphorical sirens stopped wailing in my head, that warm feeling came right back. Because at the end of the day, seeing love is beautiful. Whether it’s parental love or romantic love, it doesn't matter.

We are all unique individuals... and nobody is perfect.
Within the bounds of normalcy, it is perfectly natural to feel a sense of "fear" toward those who are different from ourselves.

Sandra Parker3 said:It’s not about believing, I know it's true.

What kind of "glance at civilization," even a casual one, 😁
isn't really just about you and your own attitudes and how you act?

The whole "live and let live" thing basically boils down to staying out of business that isn't yours
which makes things much easier.
I'm pretty sure most people instinctively know where that line is drawn.
If you’re hell-bent on making life miserable for someone or some group, there’s nothing that’ll stop you.

So, the issue isn't some failure to balance value systems or whatever—it's just that you simply want to.

The only way to truly stay out of everyone else's business is to live in the middle of the Mojave Desert with zero contact with other human beings.

A stranger's glance could easily be interpreted as an assault on one's integrity. If I were actually living by someone else's value system, I'd have to account for that too, wouldn't I?

But honestly, your conviction that this is easy—that there aren't any complications involved—is exactly why it's so difficult. If a handful of people firmly believe that different spheres of life are surgically separated, then any overlap between those domains is bound to trigger conflict. Both sides end up feeling like their boundaries were violated. And what you think won't happen because "everyone is minding their own business," you'll react even more violently to if someone actually *does* meddle in what you consider your territory. (Or, even if you personally won't—and I don't know how you operate—I'm fairly certain many others will. That brings us back to that superficial view of civilization 😬)

edit: Take a look at this list of rules, which illustrates your idea of "minding one's own business" quite well:

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm little children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

Do you really think this set of rules would lead to a harmonious society if everyone followed it to the letter?

Anthony Taylor393 said:Ever heard that phrase, "I hate Black people and racists"?

One thing I've been noticing on these forums lately. I don't want to offend anyone, but it seems pretty obvious...

I've noticed that the people who go out of their way to brag about being liberal, open-minded, or tolerant often end up being the biggest chauvinists and racists.

Like, you see women who constantly talk about fighting for gender equality, but then they turn around and defend women who commit violence against men. It's like women can never be wrong, and men are just trash who are always at fault.🙄

And what about those self-proclaimed "leftists" who make excuses for communist atrocities?

I once read an atheist saying we should basically have a holocaust for all religions. But that same person will start whining the second a church official says anything about atheists.

For example, there are tons of people who say, "No, I'm not a right-winger or a racist, I just don't like Mexicans and I don't want to see a mosque in my neighborhood."

Or someone claiming to love Jews while simultaneously backing an Iranian president who’s calling for the destruction of Israel and stuff.

What do you guys think about people like that?

In my estimation, everything hinges upon which version of the "I" is currently in the driver's seat!

Primer1: One version of the "I" is neither right-wing nor bigoted, while another version of that same "I" harbors a distaste for Mexicans and objects to the presence of a mosque.

Primer2: One version of the "I" loves walls, whereas another version of the "I" offers support to the Iranian president who vows to wipe Israel off the map.

Can one truly house two (or more) distinct identities within a single person? 🙂 🤷

Read the following post to get a clearer sense of the logic behind my argument.

Does anyone else realize we’re all operating under this massive assumption that humans are inherently rational and good—that if we just put in enough sweat and tears, truly we can become perfect😁 or at least decent.
The truth is, we can't.
I mean, why wouldn't we be intolerant? We're human, after all. 😁That's just our nature. Just look at everything we've managed to accomplish 😁
considering how little of our brain capacity we actually use.

Christian Sanchez4, you took the words right out of my mouth. 🙂 Tolerance isn't actually part of human nature. If we had the power, everyone would just reshape the world to fit their own standards and push away anyone who gets on their nerves. 😁 However, since we all have to coexist within the same American society despite our differences, we try our best to accept those variations and find ways to live alongside them. There is no such thing as a universally tolerant person. Everyone is tolerant of certain things, just not everything. I'm not even sure if total tolerance is an ideal worth striving for. Why force ourselves to tolerate something that goes against everything we stand for?

Christian Sanchez4 said:Does anyone else realize we’re all operating under this massive assumption that humans are inherently rational and good—that if we just put in enough sweat and tears, truly we can become perfect😁 or at least decent.
The truth is, we can't.
I mean, why wouldn't we be intolerant? We're human, after all. 😁That's just our nature. Just look at everything we've managed to accomplish 😁
considering how little of our brain capacity we actually use.

Very lovely. You have a point there. In fact, we've come quite far, considering who we are.
If one were to discuss some ideal version of humanity, reaching a consensus would be difficult. Everyone maintains their own specific perspective. No one has ever achieved perfection, even though we have evolved significantly since ancient times. But we're still not perfect.
Being tolerant is essentially just patiently enduring—or rather, tolerating—annoying human traits.
Does that work for people? Not really. We can try to defend ourselves against our temperamental impulses in various ways, but one thing is certain—annoying people aren't exactly desirable.

Read the Bible and attempt to live by its teachings. Stop trying to calculate how much "freedom" you can afford while still maintaining the facade of being a "good person."

Naturally, you won't succeed. But keep trying. Over and over. Put in the effort... there is no harm in it. In fact, there is more to it than that.

lonegardener said:The only way to truly stay out of everyone else's business is to live in the middle of the Mojave Desert with zero contact with other human beings.

A stranger's glance could easily be interpreted as an assault on one's integrity. If I were actually living by someone else's value system, I'd have to account for that too, wouldn't I?

But honestly, your conviction that this is easy—that there aren't any complications involved—is exactly why it's so difficult. If a handful of people firmly believe that different spheres of life are surgically separated, then any overlap between those domains is bound to trigger conflict. Both sides end up feeling like their boundaries were violated. And what you think won't happen because "everyone is minding their own business," you'll react even more violently to if someone actually *does* meddle in what you consider your territory. (Or, even if you personally won't—and I don't know how you operate—I'm fairly certain many others will. That brings us back to that superficial view of civilization 😬)

edit: Take a look at this list of rules, which illustrates your idea of "minding one's own business" quite well:

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm little children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

Do you really think this set of rules would lead to a harmonious society if everyone followed it to the letter?

you're taking it to an extreme
you'll take someone else's values into account in a reasonable way
now tell me how those values are undefined and vary from one person to the next...
that's just reality

but if you live by that principle—and honestly, I don't see any other way—you'll eventually learn where their rights end
meaning, by respecting their values, you aren't erasing your own
if you don't pick it up right away, you will, but if you refuse to learn, people will manipulate you and you'll just end up having a hard time
for now, the only one having issues is the guy who interprets a "wrong" look as an act of aggression😛

lonegardener said:The only way to truly stay out of everyone else's business is to live in the middle of the Mojave Desert with zero contact with other human beings.

A stranger's glance could easily be interpreted as an assault on one's integrity. If I were actually living by someone else's value system, I'd have to account for that too, wouldn't I?

But honestly, your conviction that this is easy—that there aren't any complications involved—is exactly why it's so difficult. If a handful of people firmly believe that different spheres of life are surgically separated, then any overlap between those domains is bound to trigger conflict. Both sides end up feeling like their boundaries were violated. And what you think won't happen because "everyone is minding their own business," you'll react even more violently to if someone actually *does* meddle in what you consider your territory. (Or, even if you personally won't—and I don't know how you operate—I'm fairly certain many others will. That brings us back to that superficial view of civilization 😬)

edit: Take a look at this list of rules, which illustrates your idea of "minding one's own business" quite well:

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm little children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

Do you really think this set of rules would lead to a harmonious society if everyone followed it to the letter?

I didn't say there were no problems, I said it wasn't "insanely difficult"
and people adapt their behavior; we aren't isolated rocks or grains of sand in your desert

by adaptation, I didn't mean submission, because then the people with the strongest convictions regarding their ideas and needs would always come out on top

though... 🤔

so, since I don't believe these domains are strictly walled off, you can't really use me as an example
and the reason I'm even bothering to explain this is

because I think we often overthink things until they become absurd, convincing ourselves that something is impossible
when it's actually not
basically, live & let live is possible, as long as you don't take it so literally that you lose the nuance

lonegardener said:The only way to truly stay out of everyone else's business is to live in the middle of the Mojave Desert with zero contact with other human beings.

A stranger's glance could easily be interpreted as an assault on one's integrity. If I were actually living by someone else's value system, I'd have to account for that too, wouldn't I?

But honestly, your conviction that this is easy—that there aren't any complications involved—is exactly why it's so difficult. If a handful of people firmly believe that different spheres of life are surgically separated, then any overlap between those domains is bound to trigger conflict. Both sides end up feeling like their boundaries were violated. And what you think won't happen because "everyone is minding their own business," you'll react even more violently to if someone actually *does* meddle in what you consider your territory. (Or, even if you personally won't—and I don't know how you operate—I'm fairly certain many others will. That brings us back to that superficial view of civilization 😬)

edit: Take a look at this list of rules, which illustrates your idea of "minding one's own business" quite well:

1. Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked.
2. Do not tell your troubles to others unless you are sure they want to hear them.
3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
4. If a guest in your lair annoys you, treat him cruelly and without mercy.
5. Do not make sexual advances unless you are given the mating signal.
6. Do not take that which does not belong to you unless it is a burden to the other person and he cries out to be relieved.
7. Acknowledge the power of magic if you have employed it successfully to obtain your desires. If you deny the power of magic after having called upon it with success, you will lose all you have obtained.
8. Do not complain about anything to which you need not subject yourself.
9. Do not harm little children.
10. Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.
11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

Do you really think this set of rules would lead to a harmonious society if everyone followed it to the letter?

Seriously, please tell me where you found this 😁
If everyone actually lived by this code, we'd all just end up as zombies

I actually like this one:

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

😁

Sandra Parker3 said:you're taking it to an extreme
you'll take someone else's values into account in a reasonable way
now tell me how those values are undefined and vary from one person to the next...
that's just reality

but if you live by that principle—and honestly, I don't see any other way—you'll eventually learn where their rights end
meaning, by respecting their values, you aren't erasing your own
if you don't pick it up right away, you will, but if you refuse to learn, people will manipulate you and you'll just end up having a hard time
for now, the only one having issues is the guy who interprets a "wrong" look as an act of aggression😛

I didn't say there were no problems, I said it wasn't "insanely difficult"
and people adapt their behavior; we aren't isolated rocks or grains of sand in your desert

by adaptation, I didn't mean submission, because then the people with the strongest convictions regarding their ideas and needs would always come out on top

though... 🤔

so, since I don't believe these domains are strictly walled off, you can't really use me as an example
and the reason I'm even bothering to explain this is

because I think we often overthink things until they become absurd, convincing ourselves that something is impossible
when it's actually not
basically, live & let live is possible, as long as you don't take it so literally that you lose the nuance

Seriously, please tell me where you found this 😁
If everyone actually lived by this code, we'd all just end up as zombies

I actually like this one:

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

😁

Yeah, I might be taking this a bit too far...

Sandra Parker3 Asks:
If you’re going to live by that principle, then honestly, I don't see any other way. To me, there isn't an alternative: you have to understand exactly where one person's rights end and another's begin.
In other words, by respecting his value system, you aren't undermining your own.
If you don't take the initiative to learn right away, you'll eventually pick it up. But if you refuse to learn at all? People will start manipulating you, and that’s when things get difficult.
Right now, the only one having an issue is the person who interprets a simple "wrong" look as an act of aggression. 😛

Do you think so? What if they respond to that phantom aggression with a counteroffensive? 😬

Sandra Parker3 As specified by:
So, "live and let live" actually works—provided you don't take the phrase too literally.

Errr... personally, I think it’s possible, but I definitely lean toward an avoidant personality. I’m just completely non-confrontational by nature. I can't even think of anyone I've ever truly gone toe-to-toe with. Honestly, if everyone could just embrace that principle, there wouldn't be nearly as many arguments, fights, or wars as we see today.

Sandra Parker3 said:you're taking it to an extreme
you'll take someone else's values into account in a reasonable way
now tell me how those values are undefined and vary from one person to the next...
that's just reality

but if you live by that principle—and honestly, I don't see any other way—you'll eventually learn where their rights end
meaning, by respecting their values, you aren't erasing your own
if you don't pick it up right away, you will, but if you refuse to learn, people will manipulate you and you'll just end up having a hard time
for now, the only one having issues is the guy who interprets a "wrong" look as an act of aggression😛

I didn't say there were no problems, I said it wasn't "insanely difficult"
and people adapt their behavior; we aren't isolated rocks or grains of sand in your desert

by adaptation, I didn't mean submission, because then the people with the strongest convictions regarding their ideas and needs would always come out on top

though... 🤔

so, since I don't believe these domains are strictly walled off, you can't really use me as an example
and the reason I'm even bothering to explain this is

because I think we often overthink things until they become absurd, convincing ourselves that something is impossible
when it's actually not
basically, live & let live is possible, as long as you don't take it so literally that you lose the nuance

Seriously, please tell me where you found this 😁
If everyone actually lived by this code, we'd all just end up as zombies

I actually like this one:

11. When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him.

😁

The history of the Churches of the Earth is a fascinating study in how spiritual movements evolve alongside the societies they inhabit. It’s a narrative that isn't just about theology, but about the shifting cultural landscapes of America over the centuries. What strikes me most is how these groups managed to maintain their core identities while navigating massive social upheavals. You see this pattern repeated throughout American religious history—groups attempting to find a balance between ancient tradition and the rapid modernization of the New World. It wasn't always a smooth transition, of course. There were periods of intense friction where institutional doctrines clashed directly with the burgeoning democratic ideals of the nation. It makes you wonder how much of our modern sense of community was shaped by these early religious structures. They weren't just places of worship; they functioned as vital social hubs during times when centralized government influence was still finding its footing. Looking back, it’s clear that these organizations played a role far more significant than many realize when discussing the foundational layers of American social fabric.

😈

mistybison said:Christian Sanchez4, you took the words right out of my mouth. 🙂 Tolerance isn't actually part of human nature. If we had the power, everyone would just reshape the world to fit their own standards and push away anyone who gets on their nerves. 😁 However, since we all have to coexist within the same American society despite our differences, we try our best to accept those variations and find ways to live alongside them. There is no such thing as a universally tolerant person. Everyone is tolerant of certain things, just not everything. I'm not even sure if total tolerance is an ideal worth striving for. Why force ourselves to tolerate something that goes against everything we stand for?

Tolerance is exactly what the word implies—it's about enduring or accepting something, not forcing yourself to actually like it.
Accepting someone or something that you don't personally agree with is simply an act of adaptation, and adaptation is fundamental to how humans evolve and move forward.
For instance, personally, I would find it unsettling to see an elderly man and a young woman being affectionate like a typical couple, or even more so an older woman and a younger man; the same applies to gay couples.
However, if I saw that, I wouldn't say a word to them, because I have no right to complain as long as they aren't hurting anyone.
Would I treat those people differently than "normal" people, perhaps when it comes to offering help? I don't think I would.
If I don't like certain things—meaning I find them distasteful—I shouldn't have to force myself to enjoy them. I should be able to feel what I feel.
Am I tolerant? Yes, I am.

lonegardener said:Yeah, I might be taking this a bit too far...

Sandra Parker3 Asks:
If you’re going to live by that principle, then honestly, I don't see any other way. To me, there isn't an alternative: you have to understand exactly where one person's rights end and another's begin.
In other words, by respecting his value system, you aren't undermining your own.
If you don't take the initiative to learn right away, you'll eventually pick it up. But if you refuse to learn at all? People will start manipulating you, and that’s when things get difficult.
Right now, the only one having an issue is the person who interprets a simple "wrong" look as an act of aggression. 😛

Do you think so? What if they respond to that phantom aggression with a counteroffensive? 😬

Sandra Parker3 As specified by:
So, "live and let live" actually works—provided you don't take the phrase too literally.

Errr... personally, I think it’s possible, but I definitely lean toward an avoidant personality. I’m just completely non-confrontational by nature. I can't even think of anyone I've ever truly gone toe-to-toe with. Honestly, if everyone could just embrace that principle, there wouldn't be nearly as many arguments, fights, or wars as we see today.

The history of the Churches of the Earth is a fascinating study in how spiritual movements evolve alongside the societies they inhabit. It’s a narrative that isn't just about theology, but about the shifting cultural landscapes of America over the centuries. What strikes me most is how these groups managed to maintain their core identities while navigating massive social upheavals. You see this pattern repeated throughout American religious history—groups attempting to find a balance between ancient tradition and the rapid modernization of the New World. It wasn't always a smooth transition, of course. There were periods of intense friction where institutional doctrines clashed directly with the burgeoning democratic ideals of the nation. It makes you wonder how much of our modern sense of community was shaped by these early religious structures. They weren't just places of worship; they functioned as vital social hubs during times when centralized government influence was still finding its footing. Looking back, it’s clear that these organizations played a role far more significant than many realize when discussing the foundational layers of American social fabric.

😈

What kind of counterattack
if he just gives you a dirty look—which is basically an attack in itself—what's the comeback 🤣

lonegardener said:Yeah, I might be taking this a bit too far...

Sandra Parker3 Asks:
If you’re going to live by that principle, then honestly, I don't see any other way. To me, there isn't an alternative: you have to understand exactly where one person's rights end and another's begin.
In other words, by respecting his value system, you aren't undermining your own.
If you don't take the initiative to learn right away, you'll eventually pick it up. But if you refuse to learn at all? People will start manipulating you, and that’s when things get difficult.
Right now, the only one having an issue is the person who interprets a simple "wrong" look as an act of aggression. 😛

Do you think so? What if they respond to that phantom aggression with a counteroffensive? 😬

Sandra Parker3 As specified by:
So, "live and let live" actually works—provided you don't take the phrase too literally.

Errr... personally, I think it’s possible, but I definitely lean toward an avoidant personality. I’m just completely non-confrontational by nature. I can't even think of anyone I've ever truly gone toe-to-toe with. Honestly, if everyone could just embrace that principle, there wouldn't be nearly as many arguments, fights, or wars as we see today.

The history of the Churches of the Earth is a fascinating study in how spiritual movements evolve alongside the societies they inhabit. It’s a narrative that isn't just about theology, but about the shifting cultural landscapes of America over the centuries. What strikes me most is how these groups managed to maintain their core identities while navigating massive social upheavals. You see this pattern repeated throughout American religious history—groups attempting to find a balance between ancient tradition and the rapid modernization of the New World. It wasn't always a smooth transition, of course. There were periods of intense friction where institutional doctrines clashed directly with the burgeoning democratic ideals of the nation. It makes you wonder how much of our modern sense of community was shaped by these early religious structures. They weren't just places of worship; they functioned as vital social hubs during times when centralized government influence was still finding its footing. Looking back, it’s clear that these organizations played a role far more significant than many realize when discussing the foundational layers of American social fabric.

😈

Yeah, I get what you're getting at
but... you love to play the intellectual, and honestly, I was just about ready to tell you to take a hike
you know, forget it 😁
besides, spite is a messy trigger

oh yeah, why didn't you go off on Tanja Oriđiđa back when they relocated you guys here because of religion? That was a while ago, but I still remember it clearly 😍

lonegardener said:Yeah, I might be taking this a bit too far...

Sandra Parker3 Asks:
If you’re going to live by that principle, then honestly, I don't see any other way. To me, there isn't an alternative: you have to understand exactly where one person's rights end and another's begin.
In other words, by respecting his value system, you aren't undermining your own.
If you don't take the initiative to learn right away, you'll eventually pick it up. But if you refuse to learn at all? People will start manipulating you, and that’s when things get difficult.
Right now, the only one having an issue is the person who interprets a simple "wrong" look as an act of aggression. 😛

Do you think so? What if they respond to that phantom aggression with a counteroffensive? 😬

Sandra Parker3 As specified by:
So, "live and let live" actually works—provided you don't take the phrase too literally.

Errr... personally, I think it’s possible, but I definitely lean toward an avoidant personality. I’m just completely non-confrontational by nature. I can't even think of anyone I've ever truly gone toe-to-toe with. Honestly, if everyone could just embrace that principle, there wouldn't be nearly as many arguments, fights, or wars as we see today.

The history of the Churches of the Earth is a fascinating study in how spiritual movements evolve alongside the societies they inhabit. It’s a narrative that isn't just about theology, but about the shifting cultural landscapes of America over the centuries. What strikes me most is how these groups managed to maintain their core identities while navigating massive social upheavals. You see this pattern repeated throughout American religious history—groups attempting to find a balance between ancient tradition and the rapid modernization of the New World. It wasn't always a smooth transition, of course. There were periods of intense friction where institutional doctrines clashed directly with the burgeoning democratic ideals of the nation. It makes you wonder how much of our modern sense of community was shaped by these early religious structures. They weren't just places of worship; they functioned as vital social hubs during times when centralized government influence was still finding its footing. Looking back, it’s clear that these organizations played a role far more significant than many realize when discussing the foundational layers of American social fabric.

😈

And you actually thought that was close to my idea? Wow... 😍

Sandra Parker3 said:What kind of counterattack
if he just gives you a dirty look—which is basically an attack in itself—what's the comeback 🤣

Yeah, I get what you're getting at
but... you love to play the intellectual, and honestly, I was just about ready to tell you to take a hike
you know, forget it 😁
besides, spite is a messy trigger

oh yeah, why didn't you go off on Tanja Oriđiđa back when they relocated you guys here because of religion? That was a while ago, but I still remember it clearly 😍

And you actually thought that was close to my idea? Wow... 😍

Hey, some people just give as good as they get, but others love to escalate things... you give him a wrong look and he slaps you across the face. At that point, whose fault is it really? 😍

Sandra Parker3 said:What kind of counterattack
if he just gives you a dirty look—which is basically an attack in itself—what's the comeback 🤣

Yeah, I get what you're getting at
but... you love to play the intellectual, and honestly, I was just about ready to tell you to take a hike
you know, forget it 😁
besides, spite is a messy trigger

oh yeah, why didn't you go off on Tanja Oriđiđa back when they relocated you guys here because of religion? That was a while ago, but I still remember it clearly 😍

And you actually thought that was close to my idea? Wow... 😍

Yes, I absolutely love lecturing 😵 — though I prefer to be upfront about it so nobody mistakenly takes me too seriously. 😬 That would be quite a burden to carry...

Sandra Parker3 said:What kind of counterattack
if he just gives you a dirty look—which is basically an attack in itself—what's the comeback 🤣

Yeah, I get what you're getting at
but... you love to play the intellectual, and honestly, I was just about ready to tell you to take a hike
you know, forget it 😁
besides, spite is a messy trigger

oh yeah, why didn't you go off on Tanja Oriđiđa back when they relocated you guys here because of religion? That was a while ago, but I still remember it clearly 😍

And you actually thought that was close to my idea? Wow... 😍

wow, you remember that? Though, your memory is a bit fuzzy. I wasn't at odds with her; she actually just muted me after I skipped Rule #3 out of those 11 guidelines a few times. 😬 Honestly, that's a perfect example of the overreactions I mentioned earlier, even if it wasn't quite that extreme...

(edit: by the way, this is a digital space; we aren't exactly the same as we are in real life. I find myself being more lenient on a forum than I would be in person, mostly because everyone here has the choice to either read my posts or just scroll past. In the real world, you can't always just ignore someone, which is why I'm much less aggressive in person. For the most part, I do follow most of those 11 rules above. 😲)

Sandra Parker3 said:What kind of counterattack
if he just gives you a dirty look—which is basically an attack in itself—what's the comeback 🤣

Yeah, I get what you're getting at
but... you love to play the intellectual, and honestly, I was just about ready to tell you to take a hike
you know, forget it 😁
besides, spite is a messy trigger

oh yeah, why didn't you go off on Tanja Oriđiđa back when they relocated you guys here because of religion? That was a while ago, but I still remember it clearly 😍

And you actually thought that was close to my idea? Wow... 😍

🤷To me, it feels pretty close to that "live and let live" philosophy. Everyone respects each other's boundaries, and nobody bothers anyone else without permission. Though, I have to say, Rule 7 is an absolute eyesore 😂 ... while everything else stays strictly social.

lonegardener said:Hey, some people just give as good as they get, but others love to escalate things... you give him a wrong look and he slaps you across the face. At that point, whose fault is it really? 😍

Yes, I absolutely love lecturing 😵 — though I prefer to be upfront about it so nobody mistakenly takes me too seriously. 😬 That would be quite a burden to carry...

wow, you remember that? Though, your memory is a bit fuzzy. I wasn't at odds with her; she actually just muted me after I skipped Rule #3 out of those 11 guidelines a few times. 😬 Honestly, that's a perfect example of the overreactions I mentioned earlier, even if it wasn't quite that extreme...

(edit: by the way, this is a digital space; we aren't exactly the same as we are in real life. I find myself being more lenient on a forum than I would be in person, mostly because everyone here has the choice to either read my posts or just scroll past. In the real world, you can't always just ignore someone, which is why I'm much less aggressive in person. For the most part, I do follow most of those 11 rules above. 😲)

🤷To me, it feels pretty close to that "live and let live" philosophy. Everyone respects each other's boundaries, and nobody bothers anyone else without permission. Though, I have to say, Rule 7 is an absolute eyesore 😂 ... while everything else stays strictly social.

probably yours
use the last part of Rule 11, DESTROY

lonegardener said:Hey, some people just give as good as they get, but others love to escalate things... you give him a wrong look and he slaps you across the face. At that point, whose fault is it really? 😍

Yes, I absolutely love lecturing 😵 — though I prefer to be upfront about it so nobody mistakenly takes me too seriously. 😬 That would be quite a burden to carry...

wow, you remember that? Though, your memory is a bit fuzzy. I wasn't at odds with her; she actually just muted me after I skipped Rule #3 out of those 11 guidelines a few times. 😬 Honestly, that's a perfect example of the overreactions I mentioned earlier, even if it wasn't quite that extreme...

(edit: by the way, this is a digital space; we aren't exactly the same as we are in real life. I find myself being more lenient on a forum than I would be in person, mostly because everyone here has the choice to either read my posts or just scroll past. In the real world, you can't always just ignore someone, which is why I'm much less aggressive in person. For the most part, I do follow most of those 11 rules above. 😲)

🤷To me, it feels pretty close to that "live and let live" philosophy. Everyone respects each other's boundaries, and nobody bothers anyone else without permission. Though, I have to say, Rule 7 is an absolute eyesore 😂 ... while everything else stays strictly social.

nah, I don't know all the specifics, I just recall you being baffled by how she still holds onto ("and pays back") stuff from way before I can even remember 😍
and personally, I find it pretty funny watching some people here act like their ignore list is some kind of miracle
seems a bit, hmm, yeah ....

lonegardener said:Hey, some people just give as good as they get, but others love to escalate things... you give him a wrong look and he slaps you across the face. At that point, whose fault is it really? 😍

Yes, I absolutely love lecturing 😵 — though I prefer to be upfront about it so nobody mistakenly takes me too seriously. 😬 That would be quite a burden to carry...

wow, you remember that? Though, your memory is a bit fuzzy. I wasn't at odds with her; she actually just muted me after I skipped Rule #3 out of those 11 guidelines a few times. 😬 Honestly, that's a perfect example of the overreactions I mentioned earlier, even if it wasn't quite that extreme...

(edit: by the way, this is a digital space; we aren't exactly the same as we are in real life. I find myself being more lenient on a forum than I would be in person, mostly because everyone here has the choice to either read my posts or just scroll past. In the real world, you can't always just ignore someone, which is why I'm much less aggressive in person. For the most part, I do follow most of those 11 rules above. 😲)

🤷To me, it feels pretty close to that "live and let live" philosophy. Everyone respects each other's boundaries, and nobody bothers anyone else without permission. Though, I have to say, Rule 7 is an absolute eyesore 😂 ... while everything else stays strictly social.

I don't see you as aggressive at all
just a little nitpicky, though
but then again, like you said, there's always that "skip" option 🙂

lonegardener said:Hey, some people just give as good as they get, but others love to escalate things... you give him a wrong look and he slaps you across the face. At that point, whose fault is it really? 😍

Yes, I absolutely love lecturing 😵 — though I prefer to be upfront about it so nobody mistakenly takes me too seriously. 😬 That would be quite a burden to carry...

wow, you remember that? Though, your memory is a bit fuzzy. I wasn't at odds with her; she actually just muted me after I skipped Rule #3 out of those 11 guidelines a few times. 😬 Honestly, that's a perfect example of the overreactions I mentioned earlier, even if it wasn't quite that extreme...

(edit: by the way, this is a digital space; we aren't exactly the same as we are in real life. I find myself being more lenient on a forum than I would be in person, mostly because everyone here has the choice to either read my posts or just scroll past. In the real world, you can't always just ignore someone, which is why I'm much less aggressive in person. For the most part, I do follow most of those 11 rules above. 😲)

🤷To me, it feels pretty close to that "live and let live" philosophy. Everyone respects each other's boundaries, and nobody bothers anyone else without permission. Though, I have to say, Rule 7 is an absolute eyesore 😂 ... while everything else stays strictly social.

I've never seen what that looks like🙄
but it must be hilarious 😁

Sandra Parker3 said:probably yours
use the last part of Rule 11, DESTROY

nah, I don't know all the specifics, I just recall you being baffled by how she still holds onto ("and pays back") stuff from way before I can even remember 😍
and personally, I find it pretty funny watching some people here act like their ignore list is some kind of miracle
seems a bit, hmm, yeah ....

I don't see you as aggressive at all
just a little nitpicky, though
but then again, like you said, there's always that "skip" option 🙂

I've never seen what that looks like🙄
but it must be hilarious 😁

That rule is pretty much useless for the average person. You can't exactly take on someone with a machine gun just because you happen to be carrying a knife. 😉
On the other hand, if you’re sitting there with a machine gun and you decide to use it on someone who only has a knife... hmm, I don't know. That feels just as wrong to me, regardless of how much of a nuisance they might be. 🙂

Sandra Parker3 said:probably yours
use the last part of Rule 11, DESTROY

nah, I don't know all the specifics, I just recall you being baffled by how she still holds onto ("and pays back") stuff from way before I can even remember 😍
and personally, I find it pretty funny watching some people here act like their ignore list is some kind of miracle
seems a bit, hmm, yeah ....

I don't see you as aggressive at all
just a little nitpicky, though
but then again, like you said, there's always that "skip" option 🙂

I've never seen what that looks like🙄
but it must be hilarious 😁

I don't have anyone. 🤷 To be honest, I dealt with two guys on another forum, but only because they were opening threads like crazy and racking up over 1,000 posts a month. 😲😲 They were literally singing the same broken record over and over again. Honestly, trying to read their stuff now would be nothing short of pure masochism.

Sandra Parker3 said:probably yours
use the last part of Rule 11, DESTROY

nah, I don't know all the specifics, I just recall you being baffled by how she still holds onto ("and pays back") stuff from way before I can even remember 😍
and personally, I find it pretty funny watching some people here act like their ignore list is some kind of miracle
seems a bit, hmm, yeah ....

I don't see you as aggressive at all
just a little nitpicky, though
but then again, like you said, there's always that "skip" option 🙂

I've never seen what that looks like🙄
but it must be hilarious 😁

That’s from some ridiculous movie I watched back when I was just a kid... honestly, I'm a little embarrassed that I even remember it. But the gag was actually pretty funny—this guy had this catchphrase about how something "sticks out like a sore thumb," and then at some party, they actually went ahead and dunked a perfect specimen right into the punch bowl. LOL

lonegardener said:That rule is pretty much useless for the average person. You can't exactly take on someone with a machine gun just because you happen to be carrying a knife. 😉
On the other hand, if you’re sitting there with a machine gun and you decide to use it on someone who only has a knife... hmm, I don't know. That feels just as wrong to me, regardless of how much of a nuisance they might be. 🙂

I don't have anyone. 🤷 To be honest, I dealt with two guys on another forum, but only because they were opening threads like crazy and racking up over 1,000 posts a month. 😲😲 They were literally singing the same broken record over and over again. Honestly, trying to read their stuff now would be nothing short of pure masochism.

That’s from some ridiculous movie I watched back when I was just a kid... honestly, I'm a little embarrassed that I even remember it. But the gag was actually pretty funny—this guy had this catchphrase about how something "sticks out like a sore thumb," and then at some party, they actually went ahead and dunked a perfect specimen right into the punch bowl. LOL

that rule basically means GO ON THE OFFENSE
which assumes one side has a knife while the other has a machine gun (or whatever comparison we're making)

assume a more level playing field
and if you actually find yourself in that situation, you'll just act on instinct 😁

btw, sign up for some martial arts classes
just in case

lonegardener said:That rule is pretty much useless for the average person. You can't exactly take on someone with a machine gun just because you happen to be carrying a knife. 😉
On the other hand, if you’re sitting there with a machine gun and you decide to use it on someone who only has a knife... hmm, I don't know. That feels just as wrong to me, regardless of how much of a nuisance they might be. 🙂

I don't have anyone. 🤷 To be honest, I dealt with two guys on another forum, but only because they were opening threads like crazy and racking up over 1,000 posts a month. 😲😲 They were literally singing the same broken record over and over again. Honestly, trying to read their stuff now would be nothing short of pure masochism.

That’s from some ridiculous movie I watched back when I was just a kid... honestly, I'm a little embarrassed that I even remember it. But the gag was actually pretty funny—this guy had this catchphrase about how something "sticks out like a sore thumb," and then at some party, they actually went ahead and dunked a perfect specimen right into the punch bowl. LOL

when you say you're embarrassed, everyone can probably guess why you remember it 😁

it's not an idiotic movie; it's just that you're embarrassed you learned your lessons from it when you were young 🤣

come on, go to bed before you write too much more 😂