One history, many histories

Linda Hughes88 said:Regarding his answer, I’m actually on board... Honestly, the world needs a global police force, and it’s definitely best if that role falls to America, because the absolute worst-case scenario for our future would be if the USA decided to retreat back into isolationism. I wouldn't go as far as saying those questions were meant to just get under his skin, though, because I know plenty of folks who genuinely believe the things they say... But anyway, that's not really what we're here to talk about.

The manual—let me be clear, I haven't even seen it, nor am I defending it. I was just reacting to the mindless politicizing and the way some of you guys on this forum are twisting the facts...
And look, this isn't the first time there's been this kind of massive uproar. Just think back to Jurčević's attack on the textbook a few years ago. Based on how he spoke, you'd think Vojislav Šešelj and Štrbac practically wrote the thing themselves... But when you actually sit down and look at what's written in there, there's really no reason for all this noise and anger...

The world doesn't need a "policeman," especially not one that hypocritically preaches one thing while acting purely unilaterally whenever it suits their own interests.
Besides, for someone so young, Jakovina seems completely weighed down by historical baggage. He's young, yet he's already lost all sense of perspective.
Does anyone happen to know anything about his family history?

He’s not even that young, he just looks totally washed up... I wonder what kind of heavy stuff he's dealing with lately...

Linda Hughes88 said:He’s not even that young, he just looks totally washed up... I wonder what kind of heavy stuff he's dealing with lately...

Basically, his main issue is that he’s an American historian who views everything through a strictly US lens.
I don't recall hearing if he ever even studied in the States? Honestly, I have no idea where he gets this kind of indoctrination—it's strange seeing a scholar who's supposed to think for himself act like this.

Brian Cox41 said:Basically, his main issue is that he’s an American historian who views everything through a strictly US lens.
I don't recall hearing if he ever even studied in the States? Honestly, I have no idea where he gets this kind of indoctrination—it's strange seeing a scholar who's supposed to think for himself act like this.

Yeah, sure, he studied there, but that doesn't prove anything at all... I mean, aren't all historians specializing in American history usually educated right here in the US? There are academic standards and scruples everywhere, both at home and abroad, especially in Western countries and definitely at those elite Ivy League universities...
but you didn't actually tell us anything useful other than just throwing out that phrase about him needing to think for himself... no shit?! And how on earth do you know he isn't thinking for himself? Just because he doesn't agree with your specific version of history? It seems like anyone who doesn't see things exactly your way is automatically "indoctrinated" in your book... real convenient logic there...

Linda Hughes88 said:Yeah, sure, he studied there, but that doesn't prove anything at all... I mean, aren't all historians specializing in American history usually educated right here in the US? There are academic standards and scruples everywhere, both at home and abroad, especially in Western countries and definitely at those elite Ivy League universities...
but you didn't actually tell us anything useful other than just throwing out that phrase about him needing to think for himself... no shit?! And how on earth do you know he isn't thinking for himself? Just because he doesn't agree with your specific version of history? It seems like anyone who doesn't see things exactly your way is automatically "indoctrinated" in your book... real convenient logic there...

I don't get why anyone would put someone like Tvrtko on such a pedestal. Unless you're Tvrtko? Or a close friend? He's been in the US several times on fellowships. Spent a year at Georgetown, a few months elsewhere, etc. If anyone cares, just check the FF website in Washington, D.C., and his CV is right there. As far as I'm concerned, he's definitely indoctrinated. I won't comment further; it starts feeling like gossip, especially since I know him personally just as well as you do. I'm not going to sit here and dissect his personality. To be clear, I have nothing against him. I'm not questioning his research, his intellect, or his knowledge. He's an engaging lecturer, articulate, and approachable. All that holds true. But in my view, he's indoctrinated by American ideology. He might not even realize it himself.

Zachary Kelly55 said:I don't get why anyone would put someone like Tvrtko on such a pedestal. Unless you're Tvrtko? Or a close friend? He's been in the US several times on fellowships. Spent a year at Georgetown, a few months elsewhere, etc. If anyone cares, just check the FF website in Washington, D.C., and his CV is right there. As far as I'm concerned, he's definitely indoctrinated. I won't comment further; it starts feeling like gossip, especially since I know him personally just as well as you do. I'm not going to sit here and dissect his personality. To be clear, I have nothing against him. I'm not questioning his research, his intellect, or his knowledge. He's an engaging lecturer, articulate, and approachable. All that holds true. But in my view, he's indoctrinated by American ideology. He might not even realize it himself.

So now I have to play the role of Jakovina just because I don't agree with you (me putting him on a pedestal? 😵 😵 )? Or am I supposed to be his best friend? That is just brilliant! Should I try to guess who you are since I'm such a thorn in your side, huh? Are you Radovan Vukadinović or some kind of associate of his? Just guessing here 🙂 I'm neither, if you're really that curious. And since you brought up his "approach," I could definitely find plenty of things to nitpick about him, but calling him indoctrinated? That's just ridiculous! I guess he should have just put an equals sign between the USSR and the USA or reduced the Vietnam War to a simple battle of good versus evil just to make you happy... Honestly, maybe the problem is you, maybe you're the one who's been indoctrinated.

Linda Hughes88 said:So now I have to play the role of Jakovina just because I don't agree with you (me putting him on a pedestal? 😵 😵 )? Or am I supposed to be his best friend? That is just brilliant! Should I try to guess who you are since I'm such a thorn in your side, huh? Are you Radovan Vukadinović or some kind of associate of his? Just guessing here 🙂 I'm neither, if you're really that curious. And since you brought up his "approach," I could definitely find plenty of things to nitpick about him, but calling him indoctrinated? That's just ridiculous! I guess he should have just put an equals sign between the USSR and the USA or reduced the Vietnam War to a simple battle of good versus evil just to make you happy... Honestly, maybe the problem is you, maybe you're the one who's been indoctrinated.

I told you nicely to just admit you're on Jakovina's side, but fine, if you want to play stubborn, go ahead. 😁

silenthawk11 said:That arrogant windbag, Tvrtko Jakovina, can attempt to romanticize Soviet Communism all he wants by digging up some sort of evidence from the Prague Spring, but he will never change the reality that Joseph Stalin was the greatest criminal our region has ever seen in modern history.

I could certainly say more regarding Ms. Teršelić, but I believe those reflections are better reserved for another time. 😁

So Marshall was a criminal and Ante Pavelic was the greatest benefactor of our region, huh? 👍

🤣

Linda Hughes88 Asks:
Yeah. So I have to become some expert analyst just because I don't agree with you? Please. 😵 😵 Is it him? Or maybe his buddy? Pure genius. I guess I'll try to figure out who you actually are when you're being such a thorn in my side. Are you Radovan Vukadinović himself or what? His associate? Just a guess. 🙂 Neither, if you really must know. And since you brought up "access," I’ve got plenty of gripes about that too, but indoctrination? That's nonsense. You probably wanted him to claim the USSR and the USA are equals, or reduce the Vietnam War to a simple battle of good versus evil just to satisfy your view. Maybe the issue is you. Maybe you're the one who's been indoctrinated.

Give me a break, it was just a joke. I don't get why you're getting so worked up over this. There’s really no need to get insulting when I haven't even insulted you. Honestly, I doubt you've actually listened to his lectures, let alone understood them. Maybe in a few years, once you've matured a bit, you'll learn how to think for yourself instead of just parroting whatever professor tells you in college. You might eventually realize that professors aren't absolute authorities—they aren't Bogomdan or some kind of deity. As for Tvrtko, he isn't a thorn in my side at all. I only decided to post this to offer a different perspective, since you were busy trying to sell nonsense to everyone else who didn't attend Georgetown.

Zachary Kelly55 said:

Linda Hughes88 Asks:
Yeah. So I have to become some expert analyst just because I don't agree with you? Please. 😵 😵 Is it him? Or maybe his buddy? Pure genius. I guess I'll try to figure out who you actually are when you're being such a thorn in my side. Are you Radovan Vukadinović himself or what? His associate? Just a guess. 🙂 Neither, if you really must know. And since you brought up "access," I’ve got plenty of gripes about that too, but indoctrination? That's nonsense. You probably wanted him to claim the USSR and the USA are equals, or reduce the Vietnam War to a simple battle of good versus evil just to satisfy your view. Maybe the issue is you. Maybe you're the one who's been indoctrinated.

Give me a break, it was just a joke. I don't get why you're getting so worked up over this. There’s really no need to get insulting when I haven't even insulted you. Honestly, I doubt you've actually listened to his lectures, let alone understood them. Maybe in a few years, once you've matured a bit, you'll learn how to think for yourself instead of just parroting whatever professor tells you in college. You might eventually realize that professors aren't absolute authorities—they aren't Bogomdan or some kind of deity. As for Tvrtko, he isn't a thorn in my side at all. I only decided to post this to offer a different perspective, since you were busy trying to sell nonsense to everyone else who didn't attend Georgetown.

Me, getting worked up? 😍 Just read your own post... It reads like it was written by some puffed-up hen with a bruised ego... "No absolute authorities," "the professor isn't Bogomdan"... Give me a break! I've never heard that one before... You clearly have such a phenomenal critical mind... Seriously people, we've got a new Nada Klaić on our hands here...
It never occurred to you, sweetie, that maybe some people don't just memorize lecture notes, that they actually care about 20th-century world history and American history too, and that they form opinions based on actual books they've read, huh? Instead of thinking the peak of critical thought is just repeating three phrases that any kid on the street knows and constantly whining about indoctrination... To even make a judgment call like that, you should probably know something about 20th-century global and American history, but from where I'm sitting, it seems like you don't know a damn thing about it...

Linda Hughes88 said:Me, getting worked up? 😍 Just read your own post... It reads like it was written by some puffed-up hen with a bruised ego... "No absolute authorities," "the professor isn't Bogomdan"... Give me a break! I've never heard that one before... You clearly have such a phenomenal critical mind... Seriously people, we've got a new Nada Klaić on our hands here...
It never occurred to you, sweetie, that maybe some people don't just memorize lecture notes, that they actually care about 20th-century world history and American history too, and that they form opinions based on actual books they've read, huh? Instead of thinking the peak of critical thought is just repeating three phrases that any kid on the street knows and constantly whining about indoctrination... To even make a judgment call like that, you should probably know something about 20th-century global and American history, but from where I'm sitting, it seems like you don't know a damn thing about it...

If you actually understood American history in the 1900s, you definitely wouldn't be posting this garbage.
☕

QUOTE=Linda Hughes88;12534728]Am I foaming at the mouth? 😍 Read your own post. It reads like it was penned by some puffed-up hen with an ego bruise. There is no absolute authority here; a professor isn't Bogomdan. Please. This is the first I've heard of it. You possess a "phenomenal" critical mind. Listen, people, this is the new Nada Klaić.
It didn't occur to you, sweetie, that some people don't just memorize textbooks? That they actually care about 20th-century world history and American history, and draw conclusions based on what they've read? Apparently, your peak level of criticism is repeating three phrases even a sparrow knows and endless whining about indoctrination. You should probably learn something about 20th-century global and American history before passing judgment, though it seems you can't say a word about it.

Slow down, kid. I know more about 20th-century American and world history than you've managed to read in your life—mostly because I'm older and have a higher degree—but arguing about it here is pointless. You're acting like you're the only historian in the country, but we have plenty to spare; more students enroll every year than there are actual jobs. You think you'll be someone when you graduate? You'll realize you're a nobody. Hundreds of people like you end up wandering into the Employment office, and you'll be lucky if you even land a job at a rural schoolhouse. Most likely, you won't work in your field at all. That’s reality. I don't have an issue with anyone from that university; I know them all quite well, personally, since I actually work in the scientific community. I've taught types like you before. The student who always has something to say, always has those "brilliant" questions, sitting in the front row hoping the professor notices them so they can be taken under their wing. It's pathetic to watch, especially knowing how slim those chances really are. My advice? If you have those ambitions, drop 20th-century history. There's almost no room left in that field. Unless, of course, you have some very strong connections—and judging by your arrogance, maybe you do. In that case, enjoy yourself.☕

Zachary Kelly55 said:QUOTE=Linda Hughes88;12534728]Am I foaming at the mouth? 😍 Read your own post. It reads like it was penned by some puffed-up hen with an ego bruise. There is no absolute authority here; a professor isn't Bogomdan. Please. This is the first I've heard of it. You possess a "phenomenal" critical mind. Listen, people, this is the new Nada Klaić.
It didn't occur to you, sweetie, that some people don't just memorize textbooks? That they actually care about 20th-century world history and American history, and draw conclusions based on what they've read? Apparently, your peak level of criticism is repeating three phrases even a sparrow knows and endless whining about indoctrination. You should probably learn something about 20th-century global and American history before passing judgment, though it seems you can't say a word about it.

Slow down, kid. I know more about 20th-century American and world history than you've managed to read in your life—mostly because I'm older and have a higher degree—but arguing about it here is pointless. You're acting like you're the only historian in the country, but we have plenty to spare; more students enroll every year than there are actual jobs. You think you'll be someone when you graduate? You'll realize you're a nobody. Hundreds of people like you end up wandering into the Employment office, and you'll be lucky if you even land a job at a rural schoolhouse. Most likely, you won't work in your field at all. That’s reality. I don't have an issue with anyone from that university; I know them all quite well, personally, since I actually work in the scientific community. I've taught types like you before. The student who always has something to say, always has those "brilliant" questions, sitting in the front row hoping the professor notices them so they can be taken under their wing. It's pathetic to watch, especially knowing how slim those chances really are. My advice? If you have those ambitions, drop 20th-century history. There's almost no room left in that field. Unless, of course, you have some very strong connections—and judging by your arrogance, maybe you do. In that case, enjoy yourself.☕

Slow down, kid. I know more about 20th-century American and world history than you've managed to read in your life—mostly because I'm older and have a higher degree—but arguing about it here is pointless. You're acting like you're the only historian in the country, but we have plenty to spare; more students enroll every year than there are actual jobs. You think you'll be someone when you graduate? You'll realize you're a nobody. Hundreds of people like you end up wandering into the Employment office, and you'll be lucky if you even land a job at a rural schoolhouse. Most likely, you won't work in your field at all. That’s reality. I don't have an issue with anyone from that university; I know them all quite well, personally, since I actually work in the scientific community. I've taught types like you before. The student who always has something to say, always has those "brilliant" questions, sitting in the front row hoping the professor notices them so they can be taken under their wing. It's pathetic to watch, especially knowing how slim those chances really are. My advice? If you have those ambitions, drop 20th-century history. There's almost no room left in that field. Unless, of course, you have some very strong connections—and judging by your arrogance, maybe you do. In that case, enjoy yourself.☕

Slow down, kid. I know more about 20th-century American and world history than you've managed to read in your life—mostly because I'm older and have a higher degree—but arguing about it here is pointless. You're acting like you're the only historian in the country, but we have plenty to spare; more students enroll every year than there are actual jobs. You think you'll be someone when you graduate? You'll realize you're a nobody. Hundreds of people like you end up wandering into the Employment office, and you'll be lucky if you even land a job at a rural schoolhouse. Most likely, you won't work in your field at all. That’s reality. I don't have an issue with anyone from that university; I know them all quite well, personally, since I actually work in the scientific community. I've taught types like you before. The student who always has something to say, always has those "brilliant" questions, sitting in the front row hoping the professor notices them so they can be taken under their wing. It's pathetic to watch, especially knowing how slim those chances really are. My advice? If you have those ambitions, drop 20th-century history. There's almost no room left in that field. Unless, of course, you have some very strong connections—and judging by your arrogance, maybe you do. In that case, enjoy yourself.☕
Sorry, girlie, but it looks like you're living in some kind of parallel universe... Where on earth did you get the idea that I'm still a student, or that I haven't graduated, or that I have a higher degree than you, or that I'm going to end up teaching at some little rural school? Seriously, thinking clearly just isn't your thing, and it makes you look ridiculous...
If anyone is acting full of themselves here, it's definitely you. All I have to do is look at your last couple of posts. The arrogance is through the roof!!! It's like communicating with someone at a dive bar. Your fragile little ego is bruised just because I didn't bow down to your "unbeatable" arguments, so now you're starting to spit venom. And if you "work in science" (maybe as a janitor at NASA), then God help the scientific community!
As for me, thanks for the concern, but you don't need to worry. I'm doing just fine with what I do, and it has nothing to do with teaching at a school or my history studies.

Linda Hughes88 said:Slow down, kid. I know more about 20th-century American and world history than you've managed to read in your life—mostly because I'm older and have a higher degree—but arguing about it here is pointless. You're acting like you're the only historian in the country, but we have plenty to spare; more students enroll every year than there are actual jobs. You think you'll be someone when you graduate? You'll realize you're a nobody. Hundreds of people like you end up wandering into the Employment office, and you'll be lucky if you even land a job at a rural schoolhouse. Most likely, you won't work in your field at all. That’s reality. I don't have an issue with anyone from that university; I know them all quite well, personally, since I actually work in the scientific community. I've taught types like you before. The student who always has something to say, always has those "brilliant" questions, sitting in the front row hoping the professor notices them so they can be taken under their wing. It's pathetic to watch, especially knowing how slim those chances really are. My advice? If you have those ambitions, drop 20th-century history. There's almost no room left in that field. Unless, of course, you have some very strong connections—and judging by your arrogance, maybe you do. In that case, enjoy yourself.☕

Slow down, kid. I know more about 20th-century American and world history than you've managed to read in your life—mostly because I'm older and have a higher degree—but arguing about it here is pointless. You're acting like you're the only historian in the country, but we have plenty to spare; more students enroll every year than there are actual jobs. You think you'll be someone when you graduate? You'll realize you're a nobody. Hundreds of people like you end up wandering into the Employment office, and you'll be lucky if you even land a job at a rural schoolhouse. Most likely, you won't work in your field at all. That’s reality. I don't have an issue with anyone from that university; I know them all quite well, personally, since I actually work in the scientific community. I've taught types like you before. The student who always has something to say, always has those "brilliant" questions, sitting in the front row hoping the professor notices them so they can be taken under their wing. It's pathetic to watch, especially knowing how slim those chances really are. My advice? If you have those ambitions, drop 20th-century history. There's almost no room left in that field. Unless, of course, you have some very strong connections—and judging by your arrogance, maybe you do. In that case, enjoy yourself.☕
Sorry, girlie, but it looks like you're living in some kind of parallel universe... Where on earth did you get the idea that I'm still a student, or that I haven't graduated, or that I have a higher degree than you, or that I'm going to end up teaching at some little rural school? Seriously, thinking clearly just isn't your thing, and it makes you look ridiculous...
If anyone is acting full of themselves here, it's definitely you. All I have to do is look at your last couple of posts. The arrogance is through the roof!!! It's like communicating with someone at a dive bar. Your fragile little ego is bruised just because I didn't bow down to your "unbeatable" arguments, so now you're starting to spit venom. And if you "work in science" (maybe as a janitor at NASA), then God help the scientific community!
As for me, thanks for the concern, but you don't need to worry. I'm doing just fine with what I do, and it has nothing to do with teaching at a school or my history studies.
Sorry, girlie, but it looks like you're living in some kind of parallel universe... Where on earth did you get the idea that I'm still a student, or that I haven't graduated, or that I have a higher degree than you, or that I'm going to end up teaching at some little rural school? Seriously, thinking clearly just isn't your thing, and it makes you look ridiculous...
If anyone is acting full of themselves here, it's definitely you. All I have to do is look at your last couple of posts. The arrogance is through the roof!!! It's like communicating with someone at a dive bar. Your fragile little ego is bruised just because I didn't bow down to your "unbeatable" arguments, so now you're starting to spit venom. And if you "work in science" (maybe as a janitor at NASA), then God help the scientific community!
As for me, thanks for the concern, but you don't need to worry. I'm doing just fine with what I do, and it has nothing to do with teaching at a school or my history studies.
z

You were the first one to start throwing insults. While I was busy discussing a specific disagreement that had absolutely nothing to do with you, you decided to take a direct shot at me. This "janitor" comment is a playground insult, something a second grader would come up with. I assumed you were a student based solely on what you wrote. And since you've apparently graduated and I might be arguing with such a profoundly important individual, please accept my deepest apologies. 🙏 I'm not usually an arrogant person, but when someone resorts to such shallow insults, I have no choice. Honestly, I feel foolish even debating you. I should have remembered the old saying: "Don't wrestle with a pig; you both get dirty, and the pig likes it." 👋

A manual on the Homeland War? 😂

Is there a pocket edition available? Just in case we end up at war with the Canadians and I need some guidelines...

Zachary Kelly55 said:Sorry, girlie, but it looks like you're living in some kind of parallel universe... Where on earth did you get the idea that I'm still a student, or that I haven't graduated, or that I have a higher degree than you, or that I'm going to end up teaching at some little rural school? Seriously, thinking clearly just isn't your thing, and it makes you look ridiculous...
If anyone is acting full of themselves here, it's definitely you. All I have to do is look at your last couple of posts. The arrogance is through the roof!!! It's like communicating with someone at a dive bar. Your fragile little ego is bruised just because I didn't bow down to your "unbeatable" arguments, so now you're starting to spit venom. And if you "work in science" (maybe as a janitor at NASA), then God help the scientific community!
As for me, thanks for the concern, but you don't need to worry. I'm doing just fine with what I do, and it has nothing to do with teaching at a school or my history studies.

z

You were the first one to start throwing insults. While I was busy discussing a specific disagreement that had absolutely nothing to do with you, you decided to take a direct shot at me. This "janitor" comment is a playground insult, something a second grader would come up with. I assumed you were a student based solely on what you wrote. And since you've apparently graduated and I might be arguing with such a profoundly important individual, please accept my deepest apologies. 🙏 I'm not usually an arrogant person, but when someone resorts to such shallow insults, I have no choice. Honestly, I feel foolish even debating you. I should have remembered the old saying: "Don't wrestle with a pig; you both get dirty, and the pig likes it." 👋
🙂
It won't happen! You're the one who started the insults in the first place... And I can say with total pride that I haven't sunk down to your pathetic level of communication.

Sophia Bishop39 said:I just realized that Vesna Teršelić actually has a hand in this—she’s one of those so-called "truth-seekers," though she's really just working under the guidance of Savo Štrbac...
It’s a pathetic attempt by some desperate people to twist the facts, cloud the truth, and just make everything feel unreal...

It isn't Teršelić, it's Teršelič. She's actually Canadian. These so-called non-profit organizations are almost entirely made up of non-Americans. This Teršelič woman, along with various others like Pusica, Puhovski, Gazivoda, Jasicke, Zelici, and Jaroslava...

Linda Hughes88 said:🙂
It won't happen! You're the one who started the insults in the first place... And I can say with total pride that I haven't sunk down to your pathetic level of communication.

Way to go.😘