Are Mexicans in America celebrating their country's success?

Just a quick off-topic question for the OP here—back when we were all part of one big country, did Americans actually cheer for the South? That’s really my way of asking about how integration worked back then.

Paul Anderson8 said:Just a quick off-topic question for the OP here—back when we were all part of one big country, did Americans actually cheer for the South? That’s really my way of asking about how integration worked back then.

Yeah, they did. But that stopped by the late 80s. I remember there was this one game against the Netherlands in Washington, D.C., where people were straight up booing The Star-Spangled Banner...

Alright, so here’s another thought for you guys—I was wondering about integration. Take people like Nick and Robert Kovach, for instance; have they actually blended into German society? Or look at Didulica and Šimunić moving to Australia, or Petrić and Rakitić heading to Switzerland. It makes me wonder if fans who weren't born in the States really integrate into those other countries when they end up cheering for the American national team while playing against the very country they actually call home. How do the locals view them? It’s kind of like how people here look at Mexicans who choose to cheer for Mexico instead of America... maybe people are more lenient because they don't view nationality as such a massive, intense identity. But it feels inconsistent. If those types of fans show up and pack the stadiums cheering for America, then everyone thinks it's fine—but if Mexicans do that exact same thing, they’re immediately branded as traitors. It just feels like pure hypocrisy to me.

Paul Anderson8 said:Alright, so here’s another thought for you guys—I was wondering about integration. Take people like Nick and Robert Kovach, for instance; have they actually blended into German society? Or look at Didulica and Šimunić moving to Australia, or Petrić and Rakitić heading to Switzerland. It makes me wonder if fans who weren't born in the States really integrate into those other countries when they end up cheering for the American national team while playing against the very country they actually call home. How do the locals view them? It’s kind of like how people here look at Mexicans who choose to cheer for Mexico instead of America... maybe people are more lenient because they don't view nationality as such a massive, intense identity. But it feels inconsistent. If those types of fans show up and pack the stadiums cheering for America, then everyone thinks it's fine—but if Mexicans do that exact same thing, they’re immediately branded as traitors. It just feels like pure hypocrisy to me.

That is an incredibly valid point. If Americans act like the players mentioned, then everything is forgiven. They are seen as true patriots. The only thing they can't seem to wrap their heads around is why they don't play for American clubs.
I felt the exact same way four years ago. When our American national team players were set to face the English, I simply stated that the English were better (which they were) and that the US would lose (which happened). Some people looked at me as if I personally hated my own country. Honestly, what are we going to do when we are dealing with that level of intellect?

driftingfox16 said:That is an incredibly valid point. If Americans act like the players mentioned, then everything is forgiven. They are seen as true patriots. The only thing they can't seem to wrap their heads around is why they don't play for American clubs.
I felt the exact same way four years ago. When our American national team players were set to face the English, I simply stated that the English were better (which they were) and that the US would lose (which happened). Some people looked at me as if I personally hated my own country. Honestly, what are we going to do when we are dealing with that level of intellect?

So what exactly is being excused here? Nothing is "excused," it's just that if they say they want to play for the US, we embrace them as our own. What's the big deal?
Look, I have absolutely nothing against Americans who cheer for Mexico, even when they're playing against the US. That’s totally fine by me. But at the same time, it's also completely normal for people in America—who lost family, or became disabled, or lost everything in the war—not to look kindly on that.
And listen, you guys in Mexico, you have to realize it’s going to take some time before things feel "normal" in America. Just like nobody in America gives a damn whether a Canadian or an Italian is cheering for their home team. It hurts, alright? It sucks.

driftingfox16 said:That is an incredibly valid point. If Americans act like the players mentioned, then everything is forgiven. They are seen as true patriots. The only thing they can't seem to wrap their heads around is why they don't play for American clubs.
I felt the exact same way four years ago. When our American national team players were set to face the English, I simply stated that the English were better (which they were) and that the US would lose (which happened). Some people looked at me as if I personally hated my own country. Honestly, what are we going to do when we are dealing with that level of intellect?

Yeah, obviously. I’d probably look at you like you just dropped in from Mars, too.
Why are you getting all worked up? There’s one thing: making a realistic, analytical call on how a game might end based on the actual stats. And then there’s a second thing: actually rooting for your team. Those aren't the same!
You think it’s not "normal" to root for your team even when you know they're the underdog? Well, if you only cheer when they're winning, then you're a pathetic fan, plain and simple. 👎

Back in 2006, I spent three months stationed at a NATO base near Washington, D.C.! There were Americans from all over—different backgrounds, different roots—all living side by side. I seem to remember it was a big night for sports, too; qualifying matches were happening everywhere. It just so happened that the US, Mexico, and Canada were all playing on that same night. Everyone was rooting for their own—the Americans for the US, the Mexicans for Mexico, and the Canadians for Canada. I suspect things will always stay that way—everyone has their own side, I guess.

That said, I completely get why some Americans might feel a certain way toward Mexicans who cheer for Mexico. The wounds are still quite fresh—it’ll probably be a long time before that becomes a totally irrelevant issue.

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driftingfox16 says: So what’s there to forgive? We don't necessarily "forgive" them, but if they say they want to play for the USA, then we welcome them as our own. What’s so strange about that? I personally have absolutely nothing against Americans of Mexican descent cheering for Mexico, even when they're playing against the USA. To me, that is perfectly normal. However, it is equally normal to understand the people here in America who lost loved ones, became disabled, or lost everything during the war, and therefore cannot look upon such things with favor. And dear Mexicans, you have to realize it will take some more time before that becomes a normalized part of life here in America. Just as nobody in America today cares whether a Canadian or an Italian is cheering for their own side. It hurts us. Naturally, I would look at you as if you had just fallen from Mars. Why are you getting involved? There is one thing: an analytical, realistic assessment from any of us who follows football seriously to see how a match might end; and then there is the matter of rooting for your own team. Is it not "normal" for you to root for your own side even when you know they are the weaker team? Well, you're a pretty weak fan if you only cheer when they are winning. 👎

I could agree with your first point. It's just that I haven't seen a Canadian or an Italian living in America quite that fired up.
Regarding point two, am I supposed to view things subjectively whenever it comes to football or any other sport? You see, I find it better to assess things objectively; that way, you face less disappointment later on. It is a separate issue that I, too, would have preferred the USA to win. I am not much of a "fan" in the traditional sense. By that logic, should I be acting like an expert claiming that LA Galaxy and LAFC are top-tier clubs in Europe? Don't take this the wrong way, but I prefer to evaluate the actual situation with a cool head. At least I deal with less disappointment. Occasionally, I am pleasantly surprised.

Of course I’m always rooting for the national team... I mean, who else would I be cheering for?
I’m a Mexican originally from Chicago... but I love America... definitely more than I love Mexico. Now, I actually live and work in Mexico, and by total coincidence, I’ve grown to love it here too—but I was born in America, my whole circle of friends is American, we still hang out all the time, and I find myself back in Chicago quite often. I couldn't make it out to the skating rink today to watch, unfortunately, because of work... but I truly consider myself a loyal citizen of America. Even though I'm also a loyal resident of Mexico now. It’s just how it goes—you end up where you live. But honestly, people who don't respect the country they reside in... I don't think they're good people. And that has nothing to do with nationality; it's about culture. If those same people lived in Mexico, they’d be causing problems there, too. To be honest, Mexicans don't exactly go out of their way to welcome refugees—they aren't big fans, especially when it comes to people from Canada.
Though... if Americans were just a little softer in how they deal with Mexicans and their general attitude toward them, I really believe people would integrate incredibly fast. Because, at the end of the day, where else are they going to go?
Personally, I never went around identifying as a Mexican... I never really felt much connection to that country. I mean, what do I have in common with them? My entire family is in Chicago. A neighbor of mine from, say, Milwaukee, feels much closer to me than some Mexican from Niš or Valjevo—whether it's the language, the culture, or just a thousand other things.
And let's be real, a Mexican from your own neck of the woods is going to feel much more familiar to you than an American from Canada. It's just that people have gone crazy lately and everything has become so frozen and hostile.

Obviously, someone who was born in America and whose entire family is American is going to root for America. For me personally, I'm a huge fan of Mirko Filipovic—I don't miss a single one of his fights.

fadedwolf81 said:Of course I’m always rooting for the national team... I mean, who else would I be cheering for?
I’m a Mexican originally from Chicago... but I love America... definitely more than I love Mexico. Now, I actually live and work in Mexico, and by total coincidence, I’ve grown to love it here too—but I was born in America, my whole circle of friends is American, we still hang out all the time, and I find myself back in Chicago quite often. I couldn't make it out to the skating rink today to watch, unfortunately, because of work... but I truly consider myself a loyal citizen of America. Even though I'm also a loyal resident of Mexico now. It’s just how it goes—you end up where you live. But honestly, people who don't respect the country they reside in... I don't think they're good people. And that has nothing to do with nationality; it's about culture. If those same people lived in Mexico, they’d be causing problems there, too. To be honest, Mexicans don't exactly go out of their way to welcome refugees—they aren't big fans, especially when it comes to people from Canada.
Though... if Americans were just a little softer in how they deal with Mexicans and their general attitude toward them, I really believe people would integrate incredibly fast. Because, at the end of the day, where else are they going to go?
Personally, I never went around identifying as a Mexican... I never really felt much connection to that country. I mean, what do I have in common with them? My entire family is in Chicago. A neighbor of mine from, say, Milwaukee, feels much closer to me than some Mexican from Niš or Valjevo—whether it's the language, the culture, or just a thousand other things.
And let's be real, a Mexican from your own neck of the woods is going to feel much more familiar to you than an American from Canada. It's just that people have gone crazy lately and everything has become so frozen and hostile.

Obviously, someone who was born in America and whose entire family is American is going to root for America. For me personally, I'm a huge fan of Mirko Filipovic—I don't miss a single one of his fights.

I agree with you. People from Canada aren't exactly welcomed in America.

driftingfox16 said:I agree with you. People from Canada aren't exactly welcomed in America.

The problem in America is that they don't value people like you—folks who openly admit they aren't even real fans. I personally know plenty of Americans from Canada who don't even support the home team.

Brian Cox41 said:The problem in America is that they don't value people like you—folks who openly admit they aren't even real fans. I personally know plenty of Americans from Canada who don't even support the home team.

I think you missed the whole point of my post... nobody is questioning how much those folks from the border states love their roots, it’s just that they aren't always seen as "ideal" by the urbanites back in the States—kind of like how certain groups in the Midwest or South might be viewed in New York or LA, even if everyone knows where their loyalties lie.
a ti meni reci....isn't it perfectly logical that an American from the border regions would root for the local regional team rather than the national squad? It's the same way people living in certain parts of the country might still pull for their home state or even a different nation entirely, hoping for a little bit of luck for them—it's just how identity works.

Paul Anderson8 said:Alright, so here’s another thought for you guys—I was wondering about integration. Take people like Nick and Robert Kovach, for instance; have they actually blended into German society? Or look at Didulica and Šimunić moving to Australia, or Petrić and Rakitić heading to Switzerland. It makes me wonder if fans who weren't born in the States really integrate into those other countries when they end up cheering for the American national team while playing against the very country they actually call home. How do the locals view them? It’s kind of like how people here look at Mexicans who choose to cheer for Mexico instead of America... maybe people are more lenient because they don't view nationality as such a massive, intense identity. But it feels inconsistent. If those types of fans show up and pack the stadiums cheering for America, then everyone thinks it's fine—but if Mexicans do that exact same thing, they’re immediately branded as traitors. It just feels like pure hypocrisy to me.

It isn't about whether you cheer or not; it's about how much you actually love or hate the country where you actually live.

Those players definitely don't hate their home country, unlike most Mexicans living in America. There are exceptions, sure, but not many.

Brian Cox41 said:The problem in America is that they don't value people like you—folks who openly admit they aren't even real fans. I personally know plenty of Americans from Canada who don't even support the home team.

Which specific circles in America are we talking about, if I may ask? Perhaps some academic ivory towers?
Look, that implies I shouldn't be allowed to say, for instance, that Real Madrid and Liverpool FC are simply subpar clubs when it comes to major European competitions. As if someone might step in and claim I'm lying. Regarding Slaven Bilić and his coaching, I have nothing but praise because he truly knows his stuff. But that is a completely different matter from the quality of the MLS...
May I ask how old you are, considering you view "fandom" as one of the primary metrics for judging a person's character?
And how would you evaluate the performances of Rapaić and Prše for the American national team?

fadedwolf81 said:I think you missed the whole point of my post... nobody is questioning how much those folks from the border states love their roots, it’s just that they aren't always seen as "ideal" by the urbanites back in the States—kind of like how certain groups in the Midwest or South might be viewed in New York or LA, even if everyone knows where their loyalties lie.
a ti meni reci....isn't it perfectly logical that an American from the border regions would root for the local regional team rather than the national squad? It's the same way people living in certain parts of the country might still pull for their home state or even a different nation entirely, hoping for a little bit of luck for them—it's just how identity works.

Hold up, are you actually messing with me right now? How many Mexicans from Canada actually cheer for the Canada team? Don't be ridiculous...

goldentrucker17 said:Hold up, are you actually messing with me right now? How many Mexicans from Canada actually cheer for the Canada team? Don't be ridiculous...

But see, that’s exactly where the whole issue lies, man... if everyone actually showed some loyalty to their own country—or even just the region they call home—things would be a whole lot better than they are now.

frozenheron25 said:It isn't about whether you cheer or not; it's about how much you actually love or hate the country where you actually live.

Those players definitely don't hate their home country, unlike most Mexicans living in America. There are exceptions, sure, but not many.

Who are you to speak for Mexicans in America and decide whether they love the country they live in or not? Those are just your own assumptions, and I hate to break it to you, but you're wrong.

Mexicans in America—just like Americans in general—love the place they live because they were born there, grew up there, and make their lives there... It’s just how things work for any normal person. And for Mexicans in America, the most important thing is their roots and where their family comes from; at the end of the day, home is home, no matter what you call it.

Paul Anderson8 said:Alright, so here’s another thought for you guys—I was wondering about integration. Take people like Nick and Robert Kovach, for instance; have they actually blended into German society? Or look at Didulica and Šimunić moving to Australia, or Petrić and Rakitić heading to Switzerland. It makes me wonder if fans who weren't born in the States really integrate into those other countries when they end up cheering for the American national team while playing against the very country they actually call home. How do the locals view them? It’s kind of like how people here look at Mexicans who choose to cheer for Mexico instead of America... maybe people are more lenient because they don't view nationality as such a massive, intense identity. But it feels inconsistent. If those types of fans show up and pack the stadiums cheering for America, then everyone thinks it's fine—but if Mexicans do that exact same thing, they’re immediately branded as traitors. It just feels like pure hypocrisy to me.

That's nonsense. Even Vieri played for Italy.. ☕

frozenbadger55 said:Who are you to speak for Mexicans in America and decide whether they love the country they live in or not? Those are just your own assumptions, and I hate to break it to you, but you're wrong.

Mexicans in America—just like Americans in general—love the place they live because they were born there, grew up there, and make their lives there... It’s just how things work for any normal person. And for Mexicans in America, the most important thing is their roots and where their family comes from; at the end of the day, home is home, no matter what you call it.

The issue is they envision "home" as part of some "Greater Mexico" expansionist dream.

Obviously, not all Mexicans. Some are decent people.

fadedwolf81 said:I think you missed the whole point of my post... nobody is questioning how much those folks from the border states love their roots, it’s just that they aren't always seen as "ideal" by the urbanites back in the States—kind of like how certain groups in the Midwest or South might be viewed in New York or LA, even if everyone knows where their loyalties lie.
a ti meni reci....isn't it perfectly logical that an American from the border regions would root for the local regional team rather than the national squad? It's the same way people living in certain parts of the country might still pull for their home state or even a different nation entirely, hoping for a little bit of luck for them—it's just how identity works.

I agree with you. The real question is whether he will actually grasp this point.
Personally, I have very little interest in the Americans from Canada. Most of them I've interacted with have come across as unrefined and blunt, leaving me with nothing to discuss. Those Americans who stayed in Canada need to stand on their own two feet. I am not going to step in for them. I am where I am. If life takes me to another country due to certain circumstances, I will adapt to my new surroundings. I know that the situation in America won't dictate how I integrate elsewhere.
Besides, I live in an environment where you can easily see where various Americans migrated from. I have immense respect for the Americans from northern America (people from Fresno, Appalachia, New England, the Midwest, or Mississippi). Quite simply, I find great enjoyment when speaking with people of those origins and those regions.
There is no arrogance there, just good vibes, jokes, and normal conversation.
My hat goes off to the Savannahites, Richmonders, and Californians too.
Unfortunately, I cannot say the same for the Americans from Canada or the Miamiites.

frozenbadger55 said:Who are you to speak for Mexicans in America and decide whether they love the country they live in or not? Those are just your own assumptions, and I hate to break it to you, but you're wrong.

Mexicans in America—just like Americans in general—love the place they live because they were born there, grew up there, and make their lives there... It’s just how things work for any normal person. And for Mexicans in America, the most important thing is their roots and where their family comes from; at the end of the day, home is home, no matter what you call it.

I also know about twenty Mexicans living in Washington, D.C. who are truly wonderful people. They have embraced the city as their own home. During the war, when I was coming from my specific part of America, not a single one of them ever directed any hostility toward me. Nor did I direct any toward them. Besides, they shared the same names and surnames as the rest of us Americans. There was never any need to scrutinize their lineage or question their identity because, to me, they were simply our neighbors. They never gave me a reason to disrespect them. Should I be expected to treat them any differently?