Spirituality

Can someone actually explain what spirituality is—and specifically, where the line is drawn between the spirit and the psyche?
Thanks!

If you get lost in the semantics, you’re going to miss the heart of the matter entirely.

Jeffrey Sanchez7 said:If you get lost in the semantics, you’re going to miss the heart of the matter entirely.

Spot on!👍

restlessseal16 said:Can someone actually explain what spirituality is—and specifically, where the line is drawn between the spirit and the psyche?
Thanks!

Just another form of ego...

On what logic does spirituality become a form of egoism? If you can even provide an answer to something like that..

Sophia Lee80 said:On what logic does spirituality become a form of egoism? If you can even provide an answer to something like that..

Any action driven by a goal is essentially a form of egoism. Think about it—whether your goal is hitting the gym to build muscle so you can look better than everyone else, or working on your "spiritual muscles" to boost your aura and health, it’s all the same thing. At the end of the day, you're still just "you," operating within a mindset of comparing yourself to others.
I'm not saying being egoistic is inherently bad, though. It's just a reality for ninety-five percent of people, at least in my book🙂...

You are absolutely correct regarding selfishness—specifically the trap of comparing oneself to others. However, you cannot label that behavior as spirituality. True spirituality is about outgrowing your former self, not surpassing your neighbor. I am not suggesting that people actually set out on a "spiritual path" with the intention of becoming better human beings; in fact, I agree with you there. People often embark on that journey with flawed motives. But the core issue remains: what spirituality actually is. Your definition is the exact opposite of what spirituality IS.

Sophia Lee80 said:You are absolutely correct regarding selfishness—specifically the trap of comparing oneself to others. However, you cannot label that behavior as spirituality. True spirituality is about outgrowing your former self, not surpassing your neighbor. I am not suggesting that people actually set out on a "spiritual path" with the intention of becoming better human beings; in fact, I agree with you there. People often embark on that journey with flawed motives. But the core issue remains: what spirituality actually is. Your definition is the exact opposite of what spirituality IS.

Don't kid yourself. Saying you want to be "better than you were before" is often just a convenient excuse. It’s a catchy phrase, but at the end of the day, the ego always wants to compare itself to someone else—it just changes how much it justifies it. Every intention carries a hint of that egoism. In that sense, spirituality is just another goal-oriented activity driven by the ego, much like anything else. That doesn't mean self-work isn't valuable or that we shouldn't do it... it's still worth doing. But it's vital to stay mindful of those underlying motives and keep questioning them honestly...

Honestly, I’m on the same page.
Humans are supposed to be free-willed—intellectually superior to anything else out there—yet it feels like we constantly need to project certain parts of ourselves outward and slap the label "spirituality" on that idealized version of who we want to be. That’s how I see spirituality, anyway... sort of.

Also, how do you actually measure a person's level of spirituality? I can guarantee the Pope and I aren't operating on the same scale, and there’s a massive spectrum of people sitting somewhere in between us.

I’m still struggling to wrap my head around the distinction between the spirit and the psyche...🤷
And please, spare me those "if you get lost in semantics, you'll never find the truth" responses—they're just tired clichés that aren't going to enlighten me or open my eyes anytime soon.

restlessseal16 said:Honestly, I’m on the same page.
Humans are supposed to be free-willed—intellectually superior to anything else out there—yet it feels like we constantly need to project certain parts of ourselves outward and slap the label "spirituality" on that idealized version of who we want to be. That’s how I see spirituality, anyway... sort of.

Also, how do you actually measure a person's level of spirituality? I can guarantee the Pope and I aren't operating on the same scale, and there’s a massive spectrum of people sitting somewhere in between us.

I’m still struggling to wrap my head around the distinction between the spirit and the psyche...🤷
And please, spare me those "if you get lost in semantics, you'll never find the truth" responses—they're just tired clichés that aren't going to enlighten me or open my eyes anytime soon.

I think you might be using the wrong comparison. It's hard to say organized religions have much to do with true spirituality, if we're even using that word. To me, things like how integrated a person is, their sense of wholeness, or how much they're driven by reactive impulses—those feel more like real metrics. Plus, just being honest with yourself... being able to see who you really are in a realistic light...

Joseph Ramos11 said:I think you might be using the wrong comparison. It's hard to say organized religions have much to do with true spirituality, if we're even using that word. To me, things like how integrated a person is, their sense of wholeness, or how much they're driven by reactive impulses—those feel more like real metrics. Plus, just being honest with yourself... being able to see who you really are in a realistic light...

I used the Pope as an example, though I could've just mentioned Quincy whom I actually consider spiritual.

Now, integration, wholeness, self-honesty, perception... those sound like psychological functions to me—you know, self-concept, core beliefs, all that stuff. I'm not sure if that's the same thing as spirituality—it probably shouldn't be. I guess I'm wondering if we're just using different vocabularies for the same thing, or if there's an actual gap between the two.

Quincy:

Sophia Lee80 As stated by: By what logic is spirituality considered a form of egoism?

The ultimate ego trip is attempting to eliminate the ego itself. People often ask how to stop identifying with the wrong "self." There is no way to do so, because the "you" that identifies with the wrong "self" doesn't actually exist. 🙂

Quincy:

Sophia Lee80 As stated by: Spirituality is about outperforming your former self, not competing with others. It’s simply the effort to be better than you were yesterday. I am certainly not suggesting that people actually embark on a "spiritual journey" just to become decent human beings.

Better than whom, exactly?

Spirituality has been run over by a cat on the interstate.

restlessseal16 said:I used the Pope as an example, though I could've just mentioned Quincy whom I actually consider spiritual.

Now, integration, wholeness, self-honesty, perception... those sound like psychological functions to me—you know, self-concept, core beliefs, all that stuff. I'm not sure if that's the same thing as spirituality—it probably shouldn't be. I guess I'm wondering if we're just using different vocabularies for the same thing, or if there's an actual gap between the two.

Well, spirituality is essentially a form of psychology, just with one major twist. Psychology usually tries to take someone who deviates from social norms and molds them into someone who fits perfectly into society. Spirituality works the opposite way. Even for someone who is perfectly adjusted to society, spirituality might view that state as "unhealthy" and strives to transcend it—aiming for that higher state of being, whether you call it becoming an enlightened sage, reaching satori, or finding oneness with the Tao... whatever you want to call it.

Joseph Ramos11 said:Well, spirituality is essentially a form of psychology, just with one major twist. Psychology usually tries to take someone who deviates from social norms and molds them into someone who fits perfectly into society. Spirituality works the opposite way. Even for someone who is perfectly adjusted to society, spirituality might view that state as "unhealthy" and strives to transcend it—aiming for that higher state of being, whether you call it becoming an enlightened sage, reaching satori, or finding oneness with the Tao... whatever you want to call it.

In my view, spirituality is really just a fancy, decorative door to dualism.

Because of that, it isn't something self-sustaining, nor is it something you can truly possess.

Only the pure essence remains.

I would like to know how the drive to destroy the ego functions as an ego trip?
A better person altogether... I don't understand how someone can fail to grasp the concept of "becoming a better person" without immediately asking, "better than whom, or what?" Your response alone proves you cannot discuss spirituality while still viewing yourself as something special—an entity separate from the environment you inhabit. This debate regarding spirituality is nothing more than semantics. The girl asked a question; ask yourselves if any of you actually answered it. Look at how many concrete answers exist in this "spiritual discussion" and reconsider whether you are truly capable of helping anyone on their spiritual path. Or better yet, ask if YOU are even on a spiritual path. Have you experienced spirituality firsthand to claim it is merely "a form of ego"? If you have, that says more about your own state than about spirituality itself. restlessseal16, my advice to you is to turn off CNN; you'll find more spirituality there than you will here. If they had the answers to your questions, the first replies wouldn't be "those lost in semantics will never realize the essence" or "a form of egoism." Spirituality is a practical skill. Our words are inadequate substitutes for our thoughts, and our thoughts are emanations of our experiences. Therefore, one who uses words too easily lacks the experience required to speak of spirituality. That is all I have seen here: throwing around big words with little meaning. If any of you were brave enough to actually experience and confront this world, rather than just criticizing it through a screen or paper, then perhaps this forum could be called spiritual, or even more.

Sophia Lee80 said:I would like to know how the drive to destroy the ego functions as an ego trip?
A better person altogether... I don't understand how someone can fail to grasp the concept of "becoming a better person" without immediately asking, "better than whom, or what?" Your response alone proves you cannot discuss spirituality while still viewing yourself as something special—an entity separate from the environment you inhabit. This debate regarding spirituality is nothing more than semantics. The girl asked a question; ask yourselves if any of you actually answered it. Look at how many concrete answers exist in this "spiritual discussion" and reconsider whether you are truly capable of helping anyone on their spiritual path. Or better yet, ask if YOU are even on a spiritual path. Have you experienced spirituality firsthand to claim it is merely "a form of ego"? If you have, that says more about your own state than about spirituality itself. restlessseal16, my advice to you is to turn off CNN; you'll find more spirituality there than you will here. If they had the answers to your questions, the first replies wouldn't be "those lost in semantics will never realize the essence" or "a form of egoism." Spirituality is a practical skill. Our words are inadequate substitutes for our thoughts, and our thoughts are emanations of our experiences. Therefore, one who uses words too easily lacks the experience required to speak of spirituality. That is all I have seen here: throwing around big words with little meaning. If any of you were brave enough to actually experience and confront this world, rather than just criticizing it through a screen or paper, then perhaps this forum could be called spiritual, or even more.

It isn't just an ego trip, it's honestly just nonsense. You *are* the ego. You are the sum of everything you've experienced and believed, so how can you be separate from it enough to destroy it? It's kind of funny... you're talking about destroying the very thing you are, lol. Everything you think defines you—all those expectations and manifestations—it's all part of it. Trying to "destroy" the ego feels pretty silly to me. Real progress is more about using spiritual alchemy to reach actual insight and understanding. Anything else is just New Age fluff...

First off, I am not a woman. Second, what you’re preaching is just New Age nonsense; the concept of ego dissolution has existed for millennia. Third, my ego and I are not one and the same. The ego is merely a manifestation of my desire to be unique, to outperform others, and to stand out. How could destroying that contribute to destroying me? If you actually applied any logic, you'd see it's quite the opposite.

Joseph Ramos11 said:It isn't just an ego trip, it's honestly just nonsense. You *are* the ego. You are the sum of everything you've experienced and believed, so how can you be separate from it enough to destroy it? It's kind of funny... you're talking about destroying the very thing you are, lol. Everything you think defines you—all those expectations and manifestations—it's all part of it. Trying to "destroy" the ego feels pretty silly to me. Real progress is more about using spiritual alchemy to reach actual insight and understanding. Anything else is just New Age fluff...

Go on, expand on that, Joseph Ramos11; what exactly triggers and drives this whole "spiritual alchemy" process?

And why on earth would you call basic human growth "alchemy"?
That sounds like just another way to dress up "spirituality" to make it sound more profound than it actually is.

Sophia Lee80 said:First off, I am not a woman. Second, what you’re preaching is just New Age nonsense; the concept of ego dissolution has existed for millennia. Third, my ego and I are not one and the same. The ego is merely a manifestation of my desire to be unique, to outperform others, and to stand out. How could destroying that contribute to destroying me? If you actually applied any logic, you'd see it's quite the opposite.

Do you even have an answer to the question "Who am I?" Because if you have an ego, you are 🙂
The ego is much more extensive than those little calculations of yours. Literally EVERYTHING—absolutely everything—you think about yourself and how you present yourself to the world is the ego.

placidharbor7 said:Go on, expand on that, Joseph Ramos11; what exactly triggers and drives this whole "spiritual alchemy" process?

And why on earth would you call basic human growth "alchemy"?
That sounds like just another way to dress up "spirituality" to make it sound more profound than it actually is.

To see the black, you have to know white. To realize there is neither black nor white, you first have to recognize that both exist...