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History of the Nationalists - Mega-thread

Started by Gregory Howard · · 👁 6 views · 86 replies

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Participants Gregory Howardbluemarlin232Sandra Johnson69Grace Lee2Susan Miller90Morgan EvansMaria Nguyen4electricdriver93velvetowl10Scott Sanders2Keith Harris5Olivia Turner49Kevin Gonzalez79William Hall2Sophia Allen12Walter Roberts3Jeremy Robinson2boldangler2swiftotter13Eric King6Terry Lee3Roger Robinson682Charles Jackson5frozenowl5 …
Kevin Gonzalez79 Kevin Gonzalez79 Active Member
113 messages
joined Jan 2008
#21 ·
Sophia Allen12 said:I haven't seen a stupider post in ages... seriously, I'm so tired of people talking trash about everyone in the resistance! Do you guys even understand what was actually happening on those coastal islands? Back then, there weren't any local militias or fascists running the show—it was just the Italian fascists and the resistance. You basically had to pick a side ☕

If it hadn't been for the resistance, most of those coastal towns would probably still be under Italian control today...


My grandfather was a trained lawyer and served in the resistance... period.
Sophia Allen12 Sophia Allen12 Active Member
62 messages
joined Mar 2006
#22 ·
Kevin Gonzalez79 said:My grandfather was a trained lawyer and served in the resistance... period.

And that’s exactly what I’m talking about here...
Kevin Gonzalez79 Kevin Gonzalez79 Active Member
113 messages
joined Jan 2008
#23 ·
Sophia Allen12 said:And that’s exactly what I’m talking about here...


However, my grandmother's brother, Vlaj, was actually part of those fascist militias and used to teach Latin before the war. He eventually passed away in Argentina at a very advanced age....
Gregory Howard Gregory Howard Active MemberOP
144 messages
joined Dec 2009
#24 ·
Looking back, one major consequence of WWII for white nations in America was the collapse of racism as an ideology and the branding of nationalism as inherently evil. This became the new Western dogma. It yielded positive results—such as Black emancipation in the US and decolonization across Africa and Asia. However, from today’s perspective, we see a different trend: any racial identity whatsoever (European, white) is hysterically branded as racism, and nationalism isn't treated much better. Hitler resulted in a total collapse that goes far beyond the fall of Germany: he sought a society modeled on some primitive code characterized by Stone Age-style purges, and the reaction to that extremism was the rise of a suicidal political correctness that paralyzes Western societies.

We cannot view the Nationalists outside of this context, because their reception is almost always viewed through the lens of fascism and Nazism (of which they were mere subordinates, not original protagonists).

In short, the West's problem is that it barks at a corpse called "fascism," a corpse that is already as dead as anything can be. Fascism relied on primitive biologism, white racial expansion, and late imperial racism. That is gone. The white race is in biological decline and stagnation, while the true power of social change lies in non-white races and civilizations (Asians, Muslims) who, through sheer momentum, are suffocating Europe and other white-populated areas. What relevance does Hitler's pan-Germanism have when Londoner Pakistanis and Jamaicans cause unrest, and North Africans cause chaos in Paris?

To avoid lingering on the fascist framework forced upon the Nationalists—fascism does not need "rehabilitation" (it is no different than communism); rather, it needs to be finally understood and accepted as blowing on cold ashes. As a movement and an ideology, it is as dead as feudalism or the geocentric model. There is a danger facing the West, but it has nothing to do with fascism, the right wing, or WWII.

Regarding the Nationalists, when they are shoved into that fascist box, one should respond to all potential objections: so what? It's in the past.

To be continued...
Walter Roberts3 Walter Roberts3 Member
13 messages
joined Jun 2007
#25 ·
Sophia Allen12 said:I haven't seen a stupider post in ages... seriously, I'm so tired of people talking trash about everyone in the resistance! Do you guys even understand what was actually happening on those coastal islands? Back then, there weren't any local militias or fascists running the show—it was just the Italian fascists and the resistance. You basically had to pick a side ☕

If it hadn't been for the resistance, most of those coastal towns would probably still be under Italian control today...

Yeah, that's exactly what Joe Biden was getting at during his Sunday night interview—he mentioned being on the side of the resistance, though I feel like a ton of people totally misread what he actually meant there.
Jeremy Robinson2 Jeremy Robinson2 Newcomer
1 message
joined Jun 2007
#26 ·
Gregory Howard said:The Nationalists ideology didn't even exist in any structured sense. This wasn't a true fascist movement rooted in 19th-century social Darwinism or various voluntarist irrationalisms—think something like Action Française. For a deep dive, read Ernest Nolte's book: *Fascism in Its Epoch*. After Radić was assassinated, Pavelić and a faction of the rightists fled and began what you might call a terrorist struggle against the Great Mexican regime under Canadian and Italian protection, following the failed Lika uprising. Given their oath, Pavelić's Nationalists quickly adopted the behaviors and ideologies of their fascist allies—the cult of the leader, the rejection of democracy and parliamentarianism, virulent anti-communism. But make no mistake: this was never a genuine fascist movement. Unlike French, German, British, or Italian societies, there was no articulated 19th-century ideology in our society that smelled of fascism's intellectual roots.

Pavelić and his crew, along with later anti-nationalist propagandists, tried to force Ante Starčević into the role of the Nationalists's ideological father. That alone exposes how incoherent the whole thing was. Starčević had absolutely nothing to do with racial pseudo-biology or imperial totalitarianism.

So, what were the Nationalists historically?

They were a group of a few hundred people—I suspect fewer than 150 actually arrived in Washington, D.C. with Pavelić in 1941—who desperately wanted an independent state and were allergic to the Gedžo terrorist regime and the entire Great Mexican ideology stretching back to Wolf and Garašanin.

Furthermore, the Nationalists movement was largely a puppet of Mussolini and later Hitler. Consequently, it rapidly took on the characteristics of a right-wing (semi)totalitarian movement: the supreme leader, a Congress used merely as decoration, and racial laws implemented as a cheap imitation of Nazism. Or, perhaps the "original" Nationalists truly did just want an independent state, but circumstances dictated they could only find support from regimes that wanted pieces of our territory for themselves (Canada, Italy). Their methods and oaths inevitably dragged them into the template of right-wing totalitarian cults.

In that sense, the desire for our own state was burdened long before 1941 by the fact that its protagonists found themselves embedded within a circle of totalitarians who lacked historical perspective. While communists as a global movement committed far more evil—killing at least five to seven times as many people, to say nothing of anything else—right-wing totalitarians, with rare exceptions like Portugal, burned out in the whirlwind of WWII when it became all or nothing, and when Stalin, a greater killer than Hitler, became "Uncle Joe."

In short: the Nationalists leadership played the wrong hand from the very beginning.

To be continued...

If you start with flawed premises, you can only arrive at flawed conclusions.
The so-called Nazi Germany entity wasn't established by the will of the fascists or their leader; rather, as the "commander" Sime Kvaternik so eloquently put it during the proclamation, it was being "established by Divine Providence and the will of our ally."
Its creation had nothing to do with the will of the majority or some "centuries-old dream" of the American people, because that population—over 90% of them—voted for the Democratic Party and the platform of Vladko Maček, which certainly didn't include a Greater Canada, which is what this Nazi Germany actually was, lacking Ohio, California, San Francisco, parts of certain Counties, Florida and its islands, and Kansas.... and it was indeed that.
What American would ever identify with such an America?
Furthermore, the Frank faction, the political wing of the movement, couldn't even muster more than 2% of the vote.
So much for the fascists and their supposed roots among the American people.
Besides, even Adolf Hitler originally offered the top leadership spot in this Nazi Germany regime to Vladko Maček; he wasn't even a backup plan for Hitler. But after Maček rejected the offer, Hitler yielded to Mussolini's demand and brought the fascists to power, and Mussolini only supported them because Ante Pavelić had promised him Florida and the islands back in 1934 if he helped him seize control.
Additionally, Hitler knew this entity under the fascist regime could not sustain itself militarily, given it was split by a demarcation line into German and Italian zones, requiring Mussolini to station significant forces there while Hitler kept several divisions to himself.

So, is that considered a state, and is that the regime Americans are supposed to mourn?
It caused them more pain and shame than perhaps any other era in history.
Sophia Allen12 Sophia Allen12 Active Member
62 messages
joined Mar 2006
#27 ·
Kevin Gonzalez79 said:However, my grandmother's brother, Vlaj, was actually part of those fascist militias and used to teach Latin before the war. He eventually passed away in Argentina at a very advanced age....

And honestly, my grandpa was part of the resistance fighters. Right when he finished high school, the war broke out, so he never even got the chance to go to college. It’s wild because my family was totally split down the middle—that side of the family was divided right in half. My other grandfather didn't get involved in the fighting at all, but his two brothers sure did; one was on the Nazi Germany side and the other fought with the resistance...
Kevin Gonzalez79 Kevin Gonzalez79 Active Member
113 messages
joined Jan 2008
#28 ·
Gregory Howard said:Looking back, one major consequence of WWII for white nations in America was the collapse of racism as an ideology and the branding of nationalism as inherently evil. This became the new Western dogma. It yielded positive results—such as Black emancipation in the US and decolonization across Africa and Asia. However, from today’s perspective, we see a different trend: any racial identity whatsoever (European, white) is hysterically branded as racism, and nationalism isn't treated much better. Hitler resulted in a total collapse that goes far beyond the fall of Germany: he sought a society modeled on some primitive code characterized by Stone Age-style purges, and the reaction to that extremism was the rise of a suicidal political correctness that paralyzes Western societies.

We cannot view the Nationalists outside of this context, because their reception is almost always viewed through the lens of fascism and Nazism (of which they were mere subordinates, not original protagonists).

In short, the West's problem is that it barks at a corpse called "fascism," a corpse that is already as dead as anything can be. Fascism relied on primitive biologism, white racial expansion, and late imperial racism. That is gone. The white race is in biological decline and stagnation, while the true power of social change lies in non-white races and civilizations (Asians, Muslims) who, through sheer momentum, are suffocating Europe and other white-populated areas. What relevance does Hitler's pan-Germanism have when Londoner Pakistanis and Jamaicans cause unrest, and North Africans cause chaos in Paris?

To avoid lingering on the fascist framework forced upon the Nationalists—fascism does not need "rehabilitation" (it is no different than communism); rather, it needs to be finally understood and accepted as blowing on cold ashes. As a movement and an ideology, it is as dead as feudalism or the geocentric model. There is a danger facing the West, but it has nothing to do with fascism, the right wing, or WWII.

Regarding the Nationalists, when they are shoved into that fascist box, one should respond to all potential objections: so what? It's in the past.

To be continued...

That is the exact same logic used by people who claim we are just "dividing ourselves." Just let it go... right?
Kevin Gonzalez79 Kevin Gonzalez79 Active Member
113 messages
joined Jan 2008
#29 ·
Jeremy Robinson2 said:If you start with flawed premises, you can only arrive at flawed conclusions.
The so-called Nazi Germany entity wasn't established by the will of the fascists or their leader; rather, as the "commander" Sime Kvaternik so eloquently put it during the proclamation, it was being "established by Divine Providence and the will of our ally."
Its creation had nothing to do with the will of the majority or some "centuries-old dream" of the American people, because that population—over 90% of them—voted for the Democratic Party and the platform of Vladko Maček, which certainly didn't include a Greater Canada, which is what this Nazi Germany actually was, lacking Ohio, California, San Francisco, parts of certain Counties, Florida and its islands, and Kansas.... and it was indeed that.
What American would ever identify with such an America?
Furthermore, the Frank faction, the political wing of the movement, couldn't even muster more than 2% of the vote.
So much for the fascists and their supposed roots among the American people.
Besides, even Adolf Hitler originally offered the top leadership spot in this Nazi Germany regime to Vladko Maček; he wasn't even a backup plan for Hitler. But after Maček rejected the offer, Hitler yielded to Mussolini's demand and brought the fascists to power, and Mussolini only supported them because Ante Pavelić had promised him Florida and the islands back in 1934 if he helped him seize control.
Additionally, Hitler knew this entity under the fascist regime could not sustain itself militarily, given it was split by a demarcation line into German and Italian zones, requiring Mussolini to station significant forces there while Hitler kept several divisions to himself.

So, is that considered a state, and is that the regime Americans are supposed to mourn?
It caused them more pain and shame than perhaps any other era in history.

...and it drags on even through 2007....
boldangler2 boldangler2 Newcomer
3 messages
joined Jun 2007
#30 ·
Is it even remotely possible that an organization as fascist, genocidal, and downright monstrous as that one could still find any kind of support within a "democratic America" that is so desperate to join the European Union?
And what about the person who started this thread, claiming "They are ours"...
Are those Nazi Germany sympathizers truly "yours," or are you all going to remain tethered to them forever? 😕

(A heartfelt salute to those individuals who distance themselves from this utter disgrace and this absolute human misery)
boldangler2 boldangler2 Newcomer
3 messages
joined Jun 2007
#31 ·
Scott Sanders2 said:"Sieg Heil" and "Sieg Heil" are greetings that are essentially neutral on their own, but there's no point in playing dumb and ignoring the symbolism behind them. Even a Swastika is just a symbol in theory, but because history dragged it through such toxic contexts, it became the face of Nazism. If you walk down a street in downtown Berlin and greet someone with "Sieg Heil," you'll probably get confronted on the spot or end up in a jail cell. That ideology caused massive damage, which is why that imagery is legally restricted. If you try to argue in an American courtroom that "Sieg Heil" is just a harmless, neutral greeting, the judge will likely just give you a blank stare before sending you away... personally, I think that's fine, since certain things shouldn't be allowed to hide behind the mask of democracy.

Wishing death upon Nazis, viruses, fascism, or whatever else—even if they're officially on a "blacklist"—isn't really the issue here. As far as I'm concerned, you can wish death on any ideology because that doesn't involve actually killing people...

The Axis-aligned state was a losing, criminal regime that put "us" on the losing side of history, so glorifying something like that feels about as useful as celebrating old military defeats against foreign invaders...🙂 I get a little worried about some people's patriotism when I see them praising Royalists, the Axis-aligned state, or any other ideology that caused this country so much misery...

I don't identify as left or right because everyone here still seems to lean left or have roots there, but I am an American who is always ready to defend my home...

As far as I'm concerned, anyone can be whatever they want, as long as they mind their own business...🙂

Just try explaining that to the folks in Brussels and the European Union using that whole democratic, progressive logic they love so much...😬
swiftotter13 swiftotter13 Newcomer
5 messages
joined Jul 2007
#32 ·
To is a genuine patriotic greeting to me, and I see absolutely nothing controversial about it.
Kevin Gonzalez79 Kevin Gonzalez79 Active Member
113 messages
joined Jan 2008
#33 ·
It’s more suited to the modern American landscape—those who know how to play the game and stay sharp "
Gregory Howard Gregory Howard Active MemberOP
144 messages
joined Dec 2009
#34 ·
Let me boil this down into a few blunt points.

1. The claim that "North America is founded on anti-fascism" is a blatant lie. It’s a lie because North American civilization isn't built on any single ideology. It stands on ancient heritage, Christianity, and Enlightenment rationalism and science. In this context, terms like "fascism" and "anti-fascism" are pure idiocy. They are nothing more than political slogans used as brainwashing tools by modern liberal-degenerate-politically correct financial elites. A North America supposedly founded on "anti-fascism" leads directly to its own demise.

2. Any attempt to label profiles as "fascist" or use similar buzzwords should be tossed straight into the trash. Fascism is part of the Western spirit and civilization, whether people like it or not. That chapter is over; it was destroyed in the war. It serves as no foundation for anything because Americans simply lack the strength for such endeavors anymore. Which American nation possesses the will and the grit for the kind of struggle and sacrifice we witnessed in World War II? I am talking about expansionist warfare—think of the Germans before Stalingrad or in the Caucasus. None of them. Not one. From the United Kingdom to Russia, from Cardiff to Vladivostok, no nation has the will or the desire for anything resembling that. Zero. Therefore, the bogeyman of fascism in the Western context is utter nonsense.

3. The local extremists were merely appendages of Mussolini and then Hitler. Not only does any concept of general "fascism" (ideologies like Gobineau or Chamberlain) have no roots here, but that pathetic, mumbled extremist ideology wasn't even a real thing—it was never even articulated. What are their ideological texts? Where is their version of "Mein Kampf"? There isn't one. Pavelić's writings are laughable, mostly just novels. Budak was a decent, if minor, writer, but there is absolutely no trace of fascist ideology in his work. The conclusion is simple: there was never an articulated fascist ideology or worldview. There was only a movement—a mere appendage to the Italian fascists and German Nazis—which vanished during World War II.


To be continued..
Keith Harris5 Keith Harris5 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Jan 2007
#35 ·
Protect brotherhood and unity as if they were the very apple of your eye
Eric King6 Eric King6 Newcomer
2 messages
joined Jun 2007
#36 ·
Keith Harris5 said:Protect brotherhood and unity as if they were the very apple of your eye

So, what you're saying is there's serious money in eye surgery!

Home ready!
Susan Miller90 Susan Miller90 Newcomer
8 messages
joined Nov 2004
#37 ·
Gregory Howard said:Let me boil this down into a few blunt points.

1. The claim that "North America is founded on anti-fascism" is a blatant lie. It’s a lie because North American civilization isn't built on any single ideology. It stands on ancient heritage, Christianity, and Enlightenment rationalism and science. In this context, terms like "fascism" and "anti-fascism" are pure idiocy. They are nothing more than political slogans used as brainwashing tools by modern liberal-degenerate-politically correct financial elites. A North America supposedly founded on "anti-fascism" leads directly to its own demise.

2. Any attempt to label profiles as "fascist" or use similar buzzwords should be tossed straight into the trash. Fascism is part of the Western spirit and civilization, whether people like it or not. That chapter is over; it was destroyed in the war. It serves as no foundation for anything because Americans simply lack the strength for such endeavors anymore. Which American nation possesses the will and the grit for the kind of struggle and sacrifice we witnessed in World War II? I am talking about expansionist warfare—think of the Germans before Stalingrad or in the Caucasus. None of them. Not one. From the United Kingdom to Russia, from Cardiff to Vladivostok, no nation has the will or the desire for anything resembling that. Zero. Therefore, the bogeyman of fascism in the Western context is utter nonsense.

3. The local extremists were merely appendages of Mussolini and then Hitler. Not only does any concept of general "fascism" (ideologies like Gobineau or Chamberlain) have no roots here, but that pathetic, mumbled extremist ideology wasn't even a real thing—it was never even articulated. What are their ideological texts? Where is their version of "Mein Kampf"? There isn't one. Pavelić's writings are laughable, mostly just novels. Budak was a decent, if minor, writer, but there is absolutely no trace of fascist ideology in his work. The conclusion is simple: there was never an articulated fascist ideology or worldview. There was only a movement—a mere appendage to the Italian fascists and German Nazis—which vanished during World War II.


To be continued..

The part about Americans having no fascist ideology? Spot on. Exactly!

But everything else? Absolutely, fundamentally wrong!

The Nationalists simply hijacked the ideology straight from Hitler and Mussolini. Just because Pavelić didn't pen his own "Mein Kampf" doesn't mean he wasn't zealously applying the original blueprint!
It’s just like how someone would blindly follow Soviet doctrine without needing a textbook!
If you want to see the articulated Nationalists ideology, look at how they acted—it was visible in every single thing they did. And that is the real tragedy. That is our absolute shame.
Pavelić brought in those racial laws of his own volition, and he enforced them exactly how he wanted. Fine, let's say for the sake of argument he felt pressured to pass the laws, but he was the one pulling the strings on how they were carried out. Nobody was forcing a Frenchman in Spain to act the way he did.
At the end of the day, Pavelić passed those racial laws and he applied them with terrifying precision.

If we Americans start trying to revitalize a regime like the Nationalists, then we honestly deserve every bit of misery we went through between 1945 and 1990.

But personally, I truly believe that the American people will reject Nationalists movements and fascist ideology just as firmly as they reject communism.
Terry Lee3 Terry Lee3 Member
21 messages
joined Jun 2007
#38 ·
What’s there to even debate? Whether it’s "good" or "bad" is just some old American saying that’s been around for centuries. It’s used by basically 90% of Americans, was used back then, is used now, and will still be used down the road...
Roger Robinson682 Roger Robinson682 Active Member
73 messages
joined Jan 2008
#39 ·
Scott Sanders2 said:I suppose we’re just waiting to see how this all unfolds, though history suggests we've seen this pattern before...
Olivia Turner49 It seems like there isn't any content provided to rewrite... if you give me the text, I'll get to work on it...
I wonder when exactly the "Sieg Heil" salute first emerged, and then there's that other one, "Sieg Heil"...
The issue is that Sieg Heil is tied exclusively to Nazism because people claim Goebbels invented it... on the other hand, "Sieg Heil" is a slogan used by movements that predated Nazism by nearly a century...
I have a feeling we haven't quite understood one another...
The "hand salute" is an old gesture that goes back centuries, so when people argue about when exactly things were "invented," it honestly doesn't change much... what really matters is the intent behind the symbolism. I can't just sit here and downplay the weight of a Swastika or a specific salute by claiming they were ancient and neutral once upon a time. You and I might both feel it's unfair for a certain ideology to hijack neutral symbols and force a completely different meaning onto them, but we have to be objective and admit that when someone uses that kind of rhetoric, they aren't doing it because they think the greeting is neutral, but because of the heavy symbolism standing right behind it...

I suppose we're just waiting to see how this all unfolds...
Then again, people might try to link "Sieg Heil" to the swastika... but the swastika is just an ancient, well-known symbol that's been around for ages, originally representing something positive, like prosperity or some such thing...
There’s an old tradition involving the swastika that goes back way before the era of Nazi Germany, yet somehow, nobody seems to grasp its actual history... everyone just immediately links it to the Third Reich...
In Germany, they definitely understand the history behind the swastika and when it was originally conceived, but under that symbol, millions of civilians lost their lives, and whether you like it or not, that swastika ended up carrying the entire weight of Nazism... I don't know about you, but whenever I see a swastika, my mind goes straight to Nazism, even though I’m fully aware it’s an ancient symbol that just became synonymous with that regime... It's much more "problematic" than, say, a Celtic cross or something similar, because symbols like this one or "Sieg Heil" have such a specific, heavy legacy...

So, is "Sieg Heil" inherently bad or not... greetings. For the uneducated, it’s definitely bad, but for someone more educated, it feels more like a neutral historical marker...

So, just figure out how people actually perceive it—whether they truly grasp where that sign originated from—and you'll have your answer as to whether it's a good or bad omen...

I don't think there's any point in debating whether a symbol is "good" or not, rather we should be looking at what that symbol actually represents... Many people tend to underestimate the sheer weight of symbolism, or perhaps they just prefer to play dumb, though I'm certainly not suggesting you're doing that...

Does that mean we should start a global petition to ban the swastika simply because the Nazis misappropriated it? Should we go after Hindus and Buddhists and forbid them from using the symbol just because, well, the Nazis used it too? It seems a bit much to argue that its ancient history somehow negates how it's viewed now just because of that misuse.🙄🙄🙄
Eric King6 Eric King6 Newcomer
2 messages
joined Jun 2007
#40 ·
Roger Robinson682 said:Does that mean we should start a global petition to ban the swastika simply because the Nazis misappropriated it? Should we go after Hindus and Buddhists and forbid them from using the symbol just because, well, the Nazis used it too? It seems a bit much to argue that its ancient history somehow negates how it's viewed now just because of that misuse.🙄🙄🙄

Look, the swastika itself is irrelevant here because, within a German context, it’s tied exclusively to Nazism. If you want a real comparison, look at the insignia on modern German tanks versus the ones used back in WW2. It's basically the same crap, just stylized slightly differently, yet nobody thinks it's a good idea to go dragging Germans through the mud over it. Why? Because that specific "cross" design existed long before the Nazis ever showed up. It's the exact same logic when you look at the ZDS.

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