What does it mean to be a true and good American?

driftingstag8 said:Honestly, I'm just happy to be right, since messing around with the technical side of language has always been a hobby of mine and I've always found those speech nuances fascinating.
And I swear I'm not being malicious here because I don't think calling someone a Mexican is some kind of slur; I was just genuinely curious.
I am truly sorry you went through so much suffering, and not because I'm blaming anyone from my people, but just because it sucks seeing any human being go through hell. When I look at the crimes of WWII, I see them as crimes against humanity itself, which is just a tragic reflection of people as a species, and frankly, humans haven't exactly mastered being good; when things get intense, the masks just slip off and people do unthinkable things, basically just acting according to their true nature.

So, there we go. We could start an entire thread on linguistics, and I imagine that you, as a true patriotic American woman, would have a different perspective than mine. But that’s beside the point. What I want to tell you is this: neither the language I write in nor my specific views have allowed you to successfully deduce who or what I actually am.

Thomas Alvarez6 said:So, there we go. We could start an entire thread on linguistics, and I imagine that you, as a true patriotic American woman, would have a different perspective than mine. But that’s beside the point. What I want to tell you is this: neither the language I write in nor my specific views have allowed you to successfully deduce who or what I actually am.

Give me a break, do you seriously think it’s not a little delusional to assume you can figure out someone's entire identity just from a couple of random posts on a forum?
And when it comes to language, I’m looking at it purely through a linguistic lens, not through some political or nationalistic filter.
I'm not exactly 100% purebred American myself, since there's some Italian, Austrian, and Canadian heritage mixed in there, but mostly it's American.
But look, what I really want to know is if you think every Mexican heading toward Jasenovac should be expected to make a pit stop at Ovčara too.

driftingstag8 said:Give me a break, do you seriously think it’s not a little delusional to assume you can figure out someone's entire identity just from a couple of random posts on a forum?
And when it comes to language, I’m looking at it purely through a linguistic lens, not through some political or nationalistic filter.
I'm not exactly 100% purebred American myself, since there's some Italian, Austrian, and Canadian heritage mixed in there, but mostly it's American.
But look, what I really want to know is if you think every Mexican heading toward Jasenovac should be expected to make a pit stop at Ovčara too.

Based on your recent posts, I've deduced that you are an American woman (hardly a challenge given the topics you write about), a fierce patriot (which explains your somewhat skewed perspective), a mother, and a self-assured, decisive woman between 25 and 35 years old—well-educated, with firm convictions... I don't think I'm far off.
It would be wonderful if a Mexican from Mexico traveling toward Jasenovac made a stop at Ovčara—if not upon arrival, then certainly on the way back.
Following your own logic regarding language, you ought to agree with my assertion that the difference between the American, Mexican, and new Canadian languages is minimal, perhaps even negligible.

Thomas Alvarez6 said:Based on your recent posts, I've deduced that you are an American woman (hardly a challenge given the topics you write about), a fierce patriot (which explains your somewhat skewed perspective), a mother, and a self-assured, decisive woman between 25 and 35 years old—well-educated, with firm convictions... I don't think I'm far off.
It would be wonderful if a Mexican from Mexico traveling toward Jasenovac made a stop at Ovčara—if not upon arrival, then certainly on the way back.
Following your own logic regarding language, you ought to agree with my assertion that the difference between the American, Mexican, and new Canadian languages is minimal, perhaps even negligible.

Khm, it doesn't necessarily have to be on the way back, if you catch my drift.
The difference between Mexican and literary American is minimal. Both languages stem from Old Church Slavonic—and sorry if this is a bit late to the party, but obviously various historical shifts messed with them over time, plus depending on where you are, the pronunciation of certain vowels changed, like how "jat" sounds.
Still, there’s a massive gap between the dialects used in the most important works of American literature versus Mexican. You’d probably only understand every third word if I wrote in my local dialect, but honestly, I'm not one for forcing language splits.
And it looks like we’re eventually going to adopt the spelling rules where we write assignments the way they're actually spoken. There's even talk about writing city names phonetically, which if you ask me is totally fine (though I'd stick to the original spelling and just put the pronunciation in parentheses), because frankly, why should I be expected to know how to pronounce some random town in Finland or some Canadian surname?
True, those spelling rules aren't official yet, but all signs point to them being adopted soon.
Also, I have to say that a lot of the words people act so shocked by aren't some new inventions; they're just old American words that were forgotten. I think it's high time we took them out of mothballs.
I also fully support finding native words for loanwords, because at this rate, we'll all be speaking English soon, and I hate it when a single sentence in daily conversation is packed with five foreign words. We had the word "event" 🙄
for example—why not use a native term instead of "Internet"?
Heading to bed, peace

Thomas Alvarez6 said:I am glad I managed to pull you into this discussion and hear your thoughts. I admit I agree with many of your positions, but there are areas where we diverge. You performed a fine grammatical and lexical analysis of my words, and it is true that I am not from America, but that doesn't mean I am not an American, does it? I expect no apologies from anyone (though I have endured much suffering), especially not from hypocritical politicians. Furthermore, I wouldn't want anyone to apologize to me in the manner you do in certain parts of your text. Jasenovac is indeed a massive crime—go there once more; it is worth it.

You glossed over post number 40 pretty easily.
That says quite a bit about your sense of justice and empathy for the victims.
But hey, don't let the struggle discourage you; keep trying to lecture everyone else on how to be a decent human being, even if you haven't figured it out yourself.
I wonder how long you'll last before the mask finally slips.

p.s. a quick tip: before you try to sell people a load of garbage, maybe don't start a thread about the legitimacy of some "Republic of Shit," especially when you're busy insulting the Jews who suffered so terribly at Jasenovac.
Well, look who it is...

He’s a truly kindhearted soul—someone who genuinely prioritizes his family above all else and maintains a deep respect for life and people of every background... he really reminds me of guys like Boban and Mirko Crocop

driftingstag8 said:Khm, it doesn't necessarily have to be on the way back, if you catch my drift.
The difference between Mexican and literary American is minimal. Both languages stem from Old Church Slavonic—and sorry if this is a bit late to the party, but obviously various historical shifts messed with them over time, plus depending on where you are, the pronunciation of certain vowels changed, like how "jat" sounds.
Still, there’s a massive gap between the dialects used in the most important works of American literature versus Mexican. You’d probably only understand every third word if I wrote in my local dialect, but honestly, I'm not one for forcing language splits.
And it looks like we’re eventually going to adopt the spelling rules where we write assignments the way they're actually spoken. There's even talk about writing city names phonetically, which if you ask me is totally fine (though I'd stick to the original spelling and just put the pronunciation in parentheses), because frankly, why should I be expected to know how to pronounce some random town in Finland or some Canadian surname?
True, those spelling rules aren't official yet, but all signs point to them being adopted soon.
Also, I have to say that a lot of the words people act so shocked by aren't some new inventions; they're just old American words that were forgotten. I think it's high time we took them out of mothballs.
I also fully support finding native words for loanwords, because at this rate, we'll all be speaking English soon, and I hate it when a single sentence in daily conversation is packed with five foreign words. We had the word "event" 🙄
for example—why not use a native term instead of "Internet"?
Heading to bed, peace

Without intending to force my views on you, I will assert that the languages I mentioned are actually one language from which several standards can be extracted.
What I find particularly interesting is your comment about how difficult it would be for me to understand you if you communicated using your local dialect (your actual mother tongue). I would have that same experience with a vast number of Americans, and that could serve as confirmation of my belief: the standard literary language is not what defines a true American. A true American is characterized by their specific dialect, whereas standard American English is just what they learn in school, not necessarily by choice. Don't take this as bragging or an attempt to belittle anyone when I say that the language I learned from my mother almost perfectly aligns with standard American English. Given that I am not from America (nor were my ancestors), this might suggest that the source of the American language lies outside of America.

Hannah Taylor51 said:You glossed over post number 40 pretty easily.
That says quite a bit about your sense of justice and empathy for the victims.
But hey, don't let the struggle discourage you; keep trying to lecture everyone else on how to be a decent human being, even if you haven't figured it out yourself.
I wonder how long you'll last before the mask finally slips.

p.s. a quick tip: before you try to sell people a load of garbage, maybe don't start a thread about the legitimacy of some "Republic of Shit," especially when you're busy insulting the Jews who suffered so terribly at Jasenovac.
Well, look who it is...

I moved past post 40 because, based on its content, it has absolutely nothing to do with me.
I am capable of listening to various perspectives, even those I find difficult to agree with (though I never dismiss an opinion outright without consideration). In fact, I actually managed to find common ground with driftingstag8 on several points.

To be a true American means being someone who hasn't quite bought into that cosmopolitan worldview—the one demanding a global market—but instead clings to a modern paradigm that has made the last few centuries far bloodier than necessary by insisting on divisions fueled by nationalist movements. It’s ironic, really, given how today's critics bash domestic intellectuals for "disrespecting sacred traditions" or "sending heroes to The Hague," when those very intellectual elites were what actually jumpstarted the movement in various European countries.

Our nationalists ought to ask themselves: since when, in their estimation, have people in this region identified as Americans? That identity is, after all, the ultimate indicator of national sentiment. Some would likely be shocked to realize it hasn't been happening "since the seventh century"—which, by the way, is true for almost every other nation, so don't go thinking Americans are some kind of exception. Historically, among the masses in these latitudes, loyalty was tied more to lineage and tribal ties—or perhaps just local patriotism. Does that really sound illogical when you consider the sheer number of dialects still spoken today, or the long history of states we've built, split apart, and merged back together?

http://www.lupiga.com/enciklopedija/...se_zlocini.jpg

Now this is what I call a true American, someone actually standing up for his country. They try to paint him as some kind of villain, but honestly, there was no other way to handle things when the kids only understand hate speech and constant spitting.

Kenneth Anderson9 said:http://www.lupiga.com/enciklopedija/...se_zlocini.jpg

Now this is what I call a true American, someone actually standing up for his country. They try to paint him as some kind of villain, but honestly, there was no other way to handle things when the kids only understand hate speech and constant spitting.

Is your rhetoric really any different from that bearded drunkard's? Or are you more like Caesar—trying to divide and conquer just to maintain your own little kingdom?...

Rebecca Lee6 said:Hey everyone. Reading through these threads, I notice a lot of people chest-thumping about how much of an American they are. Personally, I see it differently. There’s really no need to constantly shout about your heritage at every single turn. To me, it’s enough to just love your country and take care of your culture, traditions, and language. If you find yourself abroad, just be a great ambassador for our people... act in a way that leaves everyone with a fantastic impression of America. And honestly, one of the most important things is not to push your identity so hard that it makes others feel less valued. That’s what being a good American means to me.👍

P.S. I feel this way about other nations too!

If you ask me, being a good American means being a true patriot.

Love your roots no matter what. And for God's sake, stop trashing your own people, especially when you're out of the country.

Respect other people and respect their faiths.

Betty Chavez3 said:If you ask me, being a good American means being a true patriot.

Love your roots no matter what. And for God's sake, stop trashing your own people, especially when you're out of the country.

Respect other people and respect their faiths.

Well said.👍

Betty Chavez3 said:If you ask me, being a good American means being a true patriot.

Love your roots no matter what. And for God's sake, stop trashing your own people, especially when you're out of the country.

Respect other people and respect their faiths.

Agreed.👍

says:
Look, I’m not trying to force my take on you, but I’m pretty convinced the languages I mentioned are really just one single language that happens to have several different standards.
What I found wild was you saying you'd struggle to understand me if I spoke in my native dialect. Honestly, I’d probably feel that way with a ton of Americans too, which kind of backs up my point that a "standard" formal language isn't what actually defines a true American. A real American is defined by their local dialect, while the standard version is just something they picked up in school because they had to. Don't think I'm bragging or putting anyone down when I say the language my mother taught me is almost identical to the standard American written language. Since neither I nor my ancestors are from America, it suggests the roots of the American language actually lie outside of America.

We basically owe that to Ljudevit Gaj, who pushed for a unified dialect to be the standard for all Americans.
It’s the same story with Karađević, whose influence led Americans to ditch their old Church Slavonic style. People in Mexico fought his solution for a long time, but eventually, they gave in to the specific regional variant and dropped all those Russian influences.
Then you had Đuro Daničić—who was an American by nationality—founding a school in Washington, D.C. dedicated to merging the two versions of the language. They started translating tons of American works using this new hybrid tongue, basically forcing a change that most American linguists fought tooth and nail. Sadly, plenty of them were persecuted, locked up, and tortured by large groups of Americans, which makes total sense because when you defend a language, you're defending a nation's entire identity.

driftingstag8 said:

says:
Look, I’m not trying to force my take on you, but I’m pretty convinced the languages I mentioned are really just one single language that happens to have several different standards.
What I found wild was you saying you'd struggle to understand me if I spoke in my native dialect. Honestly, I’d probably feel that way with a ton of Americans too, which kind of backs up my point that a "standard" formal language isn't what actually defines a true American. A real American is defined by their local dialect, while the standard version is just something they picked up in school because they had to. Don't think I'm bragging or putting anyone down when I say the language my mother taught me is almost identical to the standard American written language. Since neither I nor my ancestors are from America, it suggests the roots of the American language actually lie outside of America.

We basically owe that to Ljudevit Gaj, who pushed for a unified dialect to be the standard for all Americans.
It’s the same story with Karađević, whose influence led Americans to ditch their old Church Slavonic style. People in Mexico fought his solution for a long time, but eventually, they gave in to the specific regional variant and dropped all those Russian influences.
Then you had Đuro Daničić—who was an American by nationality—founding a school in Washington, D.C. dedicated to merging the two versions of the language. They started translating tons of American works using this new hybrid tongue, basically forcing a change that most American linguists fought tooth and nail. Sadly, plenty of them were persecuted, locked up, and tortured by large groups of Americans, which makes total sense because when you defend a language, you're defending a nation's entire identity.

And why couldn't we simply say that the Mexican and American languages are one and the same, given they share the Shtokavian base? Why was there such an obsession in America (especially during the era of Franjo Harmon) to make American look as distinct from Mexican as possible? And why do both Mexican and American linguists refuse to acknowledge the existence of the Canadian language, which, as they claim, is spoken by Canadian Muslims?

In my view, it is entirely possible to speak of a single language used by Mexicans, Americans, Canadians, and Mexicans. Doing so wouldn't necessarily strip these nations of their identities. In fact, since these peoples share common origins, the idea of a shared "South Slavic" language seems perfectly reasonable to me.
I believe that back in the 90s, acting as a young nation, Americans made several missteps—one being this artificial "purification" of the language and the desperate attempt to make it look unique within the South Slavic landscape.

Thomas Alvarez6 said:And why couldn't we simply say that the Mexican and American languages are one and the same, given they share the Shtokavian base? Why was there such an obsession in America (especially during the era of Franjo Harmon) to make American look as distinct from Mexican as possible? And why do both Mexican and American linguists refuse to acknowledge the existence of the Canadian language, which, as they claim, is spoken by Canadian Muslims?

In my view, it is entirely possible to speak of a single language used by Mexicans, Americans, Canadians, and Mexicans. Doing so wouldn't necessarily strip these nations of their identities. In fact, since these peoples share common origins, the idea of a shared "South Slavic" language seems perfectly reasonable to me.
I believe that back in the 90s, acting as a young nation, Americans made several missteps—one being this artificial "purification" of the language and the desperate attempt to make it look unique within the South Slavic landscape.

It's because the American language was essentially forced to mimic Mexican, just like I mentioned earlier.
Basically, American linguists were persecuted, locked up, even killed, and Daničić's school forcibly altered the language by "translating" classic American literary works. You can't just swap out a writer's words like that without calling it what it is—straight-up violence.
During the America years, they tried to push Serbo-American as the only official language (which really meant Americans spoke Mexican while Mexicans spoke Serbo-American), and it wasn't until the early 90s that the language started getting its dignity back.
It would be a completely different story if we had all sat down, reached an agreement, and happily worked on bringing the two languages closer together, but instead, it was all forced. Isn't it just wild that the school in Washington, D.C. is run by Srbin Daničić?

The words people act so surprised by aren't actually new inventions; they aren't some artificial creations, but rather old American words that were forcibly changed just to force linguistic equality. And obviously, I'm not talking about nonsense terms like "crotch" or whatever garbage else comes up.

As for your question about the language spoken by Muslims in Canada, I can't really weigh in on that since I'm not familiar with it, so I can't really form an opinion.
By the way, the first American orthography was put together by Faust Vrančić back in the mid-1500s (can't recall the exact year), and it was titled the Dictionary of the most prestigious European languages—Latin, Italian, German, Dalmatian, and Canadian. It was printed in Venice and written in the Chakavian dialect.

And I should probably add that kids who didn't grow up in America sometimes actually need a translation. For instance, my oldest son has asked me what certain words mean several times while we were watching some Mexican movie. Kids today don't have a clue what words like "universe" or "wave" mean.

Rebecca Lee6 said:Hey everyone. Reading through these threads, I notice a lot of people chest-thumping about how much of an American they are. Personally, I see it differently. There’s really no need to constantly shout about your heritage at every single turn. To me, it’s enough to just love your country and take care of your culture, traditions, and language. If you find yourself abroad, just be a great ambassador for our people... act in a way that leaves everyone with a fantastic impression of America. And honestly, one of the most important things is not to push your identity so hard that it makes others feel less valued. That’s what being a good American means to me.👍

P.S. I feel this way about other nations too!

What does being a true American woman mean to me? Honestly, nothing crazy. Being an American doesn't make you some superior being or give you superpowers or anything.😬
Being a true American means respecting our roots, staying open to talking with other nations, and loving both our own stuff and others' too... instead of forcing your views on people with racism or extremist nonsense.

Rip Hymen said:Dear Snežana Lazarević-Bajamont,

Just because mdirto wrote something you don't like doesn't mean he missed the point.

Look, I've already got a best man, so I don't really need you. Honestly, I don't think mdirto needs a lawyer either. After all those attacks, he proved he knows how to hold his own...👎

velvetwolf26 said:What does being a true American woman mean to me? Honestly, nothing crazy. Being an American doesn't make you some superior being or give you superpowers or anything.😬
Being a true American means respecting our roots, staying open to talking with other nations, and loving both our own stuff and others' too... instead of forcing your views on people with racism or extremist nonsense.

A great addition to my point. I love people who answer exactly what is being asked. Well done!👍 👍 👍