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Are the English the first to throw stones?

Started by Maria Nguyen4 · · 👁 7 views · 26 replies

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Participants Maria Nguyen4Olivia Hernandez3Brian Moore67mellowraven22hollowpanther5gentleranger10Richard Wilson4Nicholas Gomez4northernheron97frozenfox13hiddengardener84James Nguyen13
Maria Nguyen4 Maria Nguyen4 NewcomerOP
8 messages
joined Nov 2006
#1 ·
Iranians caught 15 Englishmen on a spy mission!

This could be a solid excuse to kick off a massive new war. (The Americans can't, though—they're already too compromised after the whole Iraq thing.)

But the British? They can. It’s Blair's turn now. I guess that’s why they kept him in power for all those years without even holding an election! (What a joke of a democracy, right?)

Honestly, it doesn't matter how or where they grabbed them.

The only thing that matters is FINDING A REASON for war.

And START IT.

After that... everything just falls into place, I suppose?
Olivia Hernandez3 Olivia Hernandez3 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Jul 2009
#2 ·
Female sailor among detained British crew set to be released

The woman caught up with the 15 sailors seized by Iran last Friday should be back home by Wednesday or Thursday, according to CNN, citing Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki.

"I believe the female soldier will be released either today or tomorrow," the minister told a reporter covering the Arab summit in Riyadh, where Mottaki is currently in attendance.

Fay Turney, a 26-year-old mother, is the sole woman among the group detained in the Gulf. She was helming one of the rubber boats intercepted by the Guardian of the Revolution on Friday near the Shatt al-Arab, the waterway separating Iran and Iraq.


A photo of this supposed "spy" cook
http://www.ottawa-x.com/media/imag.../070328076.jpg
Brian Moore67 Brian Moore67 Active Member
241 messages
joined Apr 2007
#3 ·
Man, it is seriously wild watching how this whole saga is unfolding. So, you've got the Iranians seizing a British crew, claiming they were cruising right through Iranian waters—they even threw out some GPS coordinates as their "smoking gun" proof. But then the Brits come back swinging, showing that those exact same coordinates actually put them squarely in Iraqi waters! And the response from the Iranians? They just doubled down by providing totally different GPS data that supposedly places everything in Iranian territory. Talk about a moving target!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6501555.stm

😵

And honestly, this isn't exactly groundbreaking stuff either—last year, the Iranian navy went after a Romanian oil rig in international waters and snatched up 25 workers, and so on and so forth. It’s pretty much what happens when you’ve got a nation run like a full-blown gang.
mellowraven22 mellowraven22 Active Member
105 messages
joined Jan 2007
#4 ·
Brian Moore67 said:Man, it is seriously wild watching how this whole saga is unfolding. So, you've got the Iranians seizing a British crew, claiming they were cruising right through Iranian waters—they even threw out some GPS coordinates as their "smoking gun" proof. But then the Brits come back swinging, showing that those exact same coordinates actually put them squarely in Iraqi waters! And the response from the Iranians? They just doubled down by providing totally different GPS data that supposedly places everything in Iranian territory. Talk about a moving target!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6501555.stm

😵

And honestly, this isn't exactly groundbreaking stuff either—last year, the Iranian navy went after a Romanian oil rig in international waters and snatched up 25 workers, and so on and so forth. It’s pretty much what happens when you’ve got a nation run like a full-blown gang.

Are you talking about the Ayatollahs or Mymood I'minajihad?

Interesting stuff, though maybe Tony Blair is actually showing he has a backbone for once... or maybe it's just an illusion.

Navy boats 'ambushed' in Iraqi water

"We will, therefore, be imposing a freeze on all official bilateral business with Iran until this situation is resolved," she said.

Yesterday Mrs. Beckett spoke in what were described as "very robust terms" to her Iranian counterpart Manouchehr Mottaki.

She said many of the UK's international partners had been putting pressure on Iran.

She Said that Iraqi foreign minister Hoshyar Zebari Had confirmed The incident took Place in Iraqi Waters and called for The release of The personnel

Meanwhile in Iran students staged a Mock trial of The detainees where shouts of " death to Britain
hollowpanther5 hollowpanther5 Active Member
56 messages
joined Jan 2010
#5 ·
They already had their reasons; now, they just found the excuse.
gentleranger10 gentleranger10 Active Member
139 messages
joined Jul 2009
#6 ·
Let's be real, the UK has absolutely zero chance of pulling this off on its own.
Richard Wilson4 Richard Wilson4 Veteran
2K messages
joined Sep 2009
#7 ·
Olivia Hernandez3 says:

http://www.ottawa-x.com/media/imag.../070328076.jpg

Ugh, whatever. Honestly, it’s no shocker they’re letting them go...🤣
Richard Wilson4 Richard Wilson4 Veteran
2K messages
joined Sep 2009
#8 ·
gentleranger10 said:Let's be real, the UK has absolutely zero chance of pulling this off on its own.

Nah, England could probably take on any Islamic country single-handedly. We're talking 21st-century tech versus stuff from the 1800s. It's not even a fight.
gentleranger10 gentleranger10 Active Member
139 messages
joined Jul 2009
#9 ·
Richard Wilson4 said:Nah, England could probably take on any Islamic country single-handedly. We're talking 21st-century tech versus stuff from the 1800s. It's not even a fight.

Against Iran? No way. The Brits just don't have the muscle to handle a territory that massive, unless they decide to go all-in on an open conflict and just stop giving a damn about the body count.
Brian Moore67 Brian Moore67 Active Member
241 messages
joined Apr 2007
#10 ·
Richard Wilson4 said:Nah, England could probably take on any Islamic country single-handedly. We're talking 21st-century tech versus stuff from the 1800s. It's not even a fight.

And hey, let's not forget—Britain is sitting on some serious nuclear firepower too.

Anyway, it makes you wonder... why was that British woman wrapped up in a hijab the second she was kidnapped?
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/...257880,00.html
Nicholas Gomez4 Nicholas Gomez4 Member
13 messages
joined Mar 2007
#11 ·
Richard Wilson4 said:
Olivia Hernandez3 says:

http://www.ottawa-x.com/media/imag.../070328076.jpg

Ugh, whatever. Honestly, it’s no shocker they’re letting them go...🤣

Honestly, she looks better just because of how they wrapped her up...

Basically, they let her walk free while they cut them down to size—now we've got a real mess on our hands...

She was talking a big game on CNN just now, claiming they drifted into Iranian water, but then acting like the Iranians were being perfectly polite and all that nonsense...
northernheron97 northernheron97 Member
13 messages
joined Mar 2007
#12 ·
Since she has a kid living over in England, she'll probably just say whatever he wants to hear if it means getting back together with him. It’ll be interesting to see in a few days whether those were actually her own words or not
Brian Moore67 Brian Moore67 Active Member
241 messages
joined Apr 2007
#13 ·
northernheron97 said:Since she has a kid living over in England, she'll probably just say whatever he wants to hear if it means getting back together with him. It’ll be interesting to see in a few days whether those were actually her own words or not

Quote from the statement "Hopefully IT won't be Long until i am home to get Ready for Molly's birthday party with a present fra The Iranian People."

😵
frozenfox13 frozenfox13 Member
13 messages
joined May 2009
#14 ·
I finally stumbled upon a blog that’s actually worth reading, and it's written in American!

Here is what Sinister Pig wrote regarding the situation with the British soldiers being held captive:

Everything we’ve discussed points toward a few potential ways this crisis could resolve itself. To keep things simple, I’ll break them down using three different game theory models.

It’s one of those classic compromise scenarios—a bit of a win-win, I suppose. If Britain and the USA decide to agree to a prisoner swap, the outcome is pretty predictable. Britain gets its soldiers back, while Iran walks away with the officers they’ve been demanding. On the surface, it looks like a win, but I suspect it would actually signal a conditional defeat for the UK. It would be an implicit admission that Iran can effectively dictate terms simply by holding Western personnel hostage and leveraging them for concessions. From a political standpoint, such a move would serve as a confirmation of Iran's growing influence and a clear sign of Britain's military and political vulnerabilities. I guess this could also provide Iran with the necessary political momentum to push forward with their nuclear agenda.

It’s looking like a classic zero-sum game—one side wins everything, or we all lose. Maybe Britain decides to double down on its status as a superpower, insisting on the unconditional return of its troops by threatening direct military action if Iran doesn't back down. This is the kind of scenario Tony Blair has already hinted at.[Link] I guess there isn't much more I can add to this conversation right now. Maybe we'll see things shift eventually, but for the moment, it feels like we're just spinning our wheels. It’s hard to say where this is all heading, though I suppose time will tell. [Link]That’s a solid summary, honestly. hereIt’s a bit of a lose-lose scenario. If Iran backs down, they lose face while Britain walks away with a win. But if Britain decides to blink—if they cave after Iran rejects their ultimatum regarding the prisoner release and fails to follow through on their threats—then the situation flips completely. In that case, Iran wins, and Britain loses.

3. A total disaster—just a complete loss. Iran has rejected the British ultimatum, making it clear they have no intention of releasing those British captives. Now, Great Britain is moving to follow through on its threat. This marks the end of any meaningful dialogue and the beginning of an open conflict. It’s the start of an outright war. Honestly, both sides stand to lose, regardless of how the actual fighting plays out. And the rest of the world is going to suffer too, given the inevitable chaos this will cause in the world oil market.

o A) If Britain fails here, Iran is going to step up as the next global superpower. It looks like Britain would be kicked out of the big leagues entirely, losing what little influence they have left over the Middle East. Since the US recently committed through Congress to pulling out of Iraq by the end of August 2008, it feels like a vacuum is being created. In this scenario, Iran takes control of the Middle East, which might allow them to continue developing nuclear weapons without much interference. Meanwhile, the US withdraws and begins bracing for an all-out conflict. I guess we’d see the restart of the American nuclear program—the one that was halted back in 1995. Diplomatic channels would likely be completely deadlocked. Ultimately, it seems the world would just be bracing itself for a massive confrontation.
I suppose there isn't much more to say on that. B) If the regime in Iran actually collapses, we aren't just looking at a change in leadership; we're looking at total political disintegration. About 40% of the population there isn't even ethnically Iranian, which creates a massive powder keg. You’ve got the Kurdish minority, who already have deep ties to their counterparts across the border, likely to push for more autonomy. Once that central authority weakens, I suspect the provinces will become incredibly unstable. On top of the political chaos, the economic fallout would be brutal. It could take years before they manage to get oil production back to pre-war levels. In the meantime, the world oil market will go absolutely wild. Prices will spike, and global economies will feel the squeeze from that energy vacuum. I wouldn't be surprised if Russia sees this as their perfect opening to move further into the Middle East.
o C) It seems like no one side can land a knockout blow here. Iranian water is effectively cut off, and their oil exports have been completely choked out. At the same time, Iran is ramping up its influence among Shiites in Iraq, which serves as a way to counter the military dominance held by the USA and Britain. Meanwhile, Iraq remains unstable, making its own oil exports difficult to manage. So, you have Iranian oil exports at zero, while all parties involved are just draining themselves dry in this conflict. The global oil market is going absolutely wild. Prices are climbing, and economies are feeling the squeeze due to this massive energy vacuum. To top it all off, Russia is moving into the Middle East.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Of course. There's also the possibility of a diplomatic stalemate. It seems like the prisoner exchange negotiations are being dragged out just long enough so that both sides can walk away without losing face. I suppose it reminds me somewhat of how the Cuban Missile Crisis was handled during the Cold War. Back then, both sides made certain goodwill gestures a few months after the tension peaked, simply to demonstrate their independence in making concessions. It was a way to avoid a situation where one side had to be branded the clear loser of the crisis.

Maybe Iran could release those British soldiers "as a gesture of goodwill and peace," effectively proving they can protect their own sovereignty by holding those 15 soldiers—actually 14 men and one woman—for three or four months before finally handing them back to the Britons.

On the flip side, the British and Americans could release a certain number of Iranian prisoners in Iraq, under the pretense that "it’s been proven these individuals weren't responsible for inciting sectarian violence there." That way, everyone gets to keep their dignity intact.

A similar scenario is being discussed here.

But honestly, this just highlights how pointless capturing British soldiers was in the first place. If Iran only held them for three months to have a knife at their throat and then let them go—what was really achieved? It doesn't demonstrate their strength, nor does it expose Anglo-American weakness. At most, they've just handed themselves another crisis to deal with.

Besides, the Iranian leadership likely realizes they've handed the British (and indirectly the Americans) a casus belli that they've been hunting for months anyway.

In response to this, the USA has launched its largest military exercise in the Persian Gulf since the invasion of Iraq in 2003. (link)

(It's a familiar pattern; that's how the Vietnam War started too, following two attacks on US Marines in the Gulf of Tonkin. The US administration simply used it as the pretext for getting bogged down in Vietnam.)

Beyond that, the situation seems to be spiraling out of control. Playing games with war isn't particularly wise when you're dealing with armed children who are absolutely fueled by mutual contempt.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well... we're neck-deep in it now.
And don't forget to check out the blog—
northernheron97 northernheron97 Member
13 messages
joined Mar 2007
#15 ·
It’s not bullshit; the Iranians said they’ll let them go if they "determine" they accidentally drifted into their waters, but they'll only prosecute them as spies if it's "determined" they entered on purpose.
It'll end with the Iranians releasing them and then spinning the whole thing as this massive humanitarian gesture, just like what happened back in 2004.
hiddengardener84 hiddengardener84 Active Member
57 messages
joined Oct 2009
#16 ·
Brian Moore67 said:Man, it is seriously wild watching how this whole saga is unfolding. So, you've got the Iranians seizing a British crew, claiming they were cruising right through Iranian waters—they even threw out some GPS coordinates as their "smoking gun" proof. But then the Brits come back swinging, showing that those exact same coordinates actually put them squarely in Iraqi waters! And the response from the Iranians? They just doubled down by providing totally different GPS data that supposedly places everything in Iranian territory. Talk about a moving target!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6501555.stm

😵

And honestly, this isn't exactly groundbreaking stuff either—last year, the Iranian navy went after a Romanian oil rig in international waters and snatched up 25 workers, and so on and so forth. It’s pretty much what happens when you’ve got a nation run like a full-blown gang.

I'd rather deal with a gangster than a bunch of war criminals 🤣 😬 and terrorists (one of whom even gets a Nobel Peace Prize)
Nicholas Gomez4 Nicholas Gomez4 Member
13 messages
joined Mar 2007
#17 ·
northernheron97 said:It’s not bullshit; the Iranians said they’ll let them go if they "determine" they accidentally drifted into their waters, but they'll only prosecute them as spies if it's "determined" they entered on purpose.
It'll end with the Iranians releasing them and then spinning the whole thing as this massive humanitarian gesture, just like what happened back in 2004.

Not a chance.

No release happens without an Iranian diplomat coming out of Erbil.

The whole broadcast tells the story.

The Britons are sitting there shocked by this segment about the detainees... meanwhile, the Iranians staged the whole thing perfectly. The Marines look like a bunch of kids playing around—laughing, snacking... they look friendly and harmless. Doesn't look anything like "dangerous" operators to me.

And that female soldier—man, she was the real kicker. Talking all sweet about going home to bring her little girl a gift...

So what can the Brits do? Absolutely nothing.
James Nguyen13 James Nguyen13 Regular
256 messages
joined Feb 2012
#18 ·
The Iranian authorities are facing a massive disconnect with their own people, who are frankly starving for a taste of the West. Most Iranians today were either born under the Ayatollahs or were so young when things changed that they don't even remember how life used to be. It’s pretty common knowledge that when Iranian women travel abroad, they ditch those restrictive rules they're forced to follow at home; you see young people flocking to clubs and disco spots because they're just hungry for that Western lifestyle. The regime essentially manufactures these provocations to trigger a backlash, all in an attempt to force a sense of national unity and ensure their own survival. If they can't frame everything as an "us versus them" scenario, the public would likely just turn its back on them. That's why they constantly push buttons—it's a calculated move to keep the nation glued to their side through manufactured conflict.
northernheron97 northernheron97 Member
13 messages
joined Mar 2007
#19 ·
Nicholas Gomez4 said:Not a chance.

No release happens without an Iranian diplomat coming out of Erbil.

The whole broadcast tells the story.

The Britons are sitting there shocked by this segment about the detainees... meanwhile, the Iranians staged the whole thing perfectly. The Marines look like a bunch of kids playing around—laughing, snacking... they look friendly and harmless. Doesn't look anything like "dangerous" operators to me.

And that female soldier—man, she was the real kicker. Talking all sweet about going home to bring her little girl a gift...

So what can the Brits do? Absolutely nothing.

The Iranians have flipped the script; now they're saying they'll only release the hostages if England admits they were in Iranian water, which of course, isn't going to happen.
Maybe things could actually heat up here.
Regarding the idea that England is powerless, while they might not have much leverage militarily, they certainly have options economically.
This weekend, European foreign ministers are meeting in Bremen, and there's talk that England, acting as an EU member, could pressure Germany to stand in solidarity by canceling German export credit guarantees (which totaled 5.8 billion euros in 2005)—something Germany refused to do during that last UN resolution regarding sanctions on Iran.
If that actually happens, the Iranian economy is going to be in serious trouble.
Brian Moore67 Brian Moore67 Active Member
241 messages
joined Apr 2007
#20 ·
CNN reported on Thursday, according to an Israeli radio citation, that US forces were surrounding the Iranian consulate in Basra.

Basically, the whole idea was that the forces were trying to exert pressure on Iran to release the 15 British soldiers being held captive.

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