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Force-feeding?

Started by swiftcobra15 · · 👁 5 views · 21 replies

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Participants swiftcobra15wiredmarlin20Harold James9Michelle Alvarez8neoncanyon39AChris Peterson53hollowtrucker77Jason Johnson4Austin Roberts8Taylor Campbell4Rebecca Cox2Robert Taylor3mistyscout2Mark Nguyen6
swiftcobra15 swiftcobra15 RegularOP
305 messages
joined Dec 2002
#1 ·



Hunger strikes seem to be becoming quite a trend lately.




We've already seen several instances where defendants have used this tactic as a tool in their legal battles.

I’d ask that we refrain from commenting on specific individuals and instead discuss this as a general principle.

Is it ethically sound to force-feed a defendant once doctors determine that their refusal to eat is life-threatening?



I firmly believe that a defendant absolutely has the (moral) right to refuse food.
The real question is simply where the limits of that right should lie.




http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061206/..._crimes_serbia


http://www.voanews.com/american/arch...03-10-voa7.cfm
http://www.nytimes.com/Html/2003/11/2....asp?r=sss&c=7

http://www.wsj.com/laws/2986-2.asp

wiredmarlin20 wiredmarlin20 Member
18 messages
joined Sep 2006
#2 ·
Quincy:
Look, I’m telling you, the defendant absolutely has the (moral) right to refuse food.
The real question is just where we draw the line on that right.
They have the right to refuse food right up until they aren't thinking straight anymore—basically, until hunger starts messing with their head...

If medical staff determines the person can't make rational decisions anymore, then the fast has to end and they need to start force-feeding...
swiftcobra15 swiftcobra15 RegularOP
305 messages
joined Dec 2002
#3 ·
wiredmarlin20 said:If qualified professionals determine that an individual is no longer capable of making their own decisions, ...

😕


Who exactly counts as "qualified professionals," and what specific process is used to make that determination?

wiredmarlin20 wiredmarlin20 Member
18 messages
joined Sep 2006
#4 ·
swiftcobra15 swiftcobra15 said:😕


What does "adequate staffing" even mean? And how are you supposed to prove it?


What do you think? Doctors...

If they confirm someone's in a coma in both those high-profile cases, then yeah, forced feeding definitely needs to be on the table.
Harold James9 Harold James9 Active Member
76 messages
joined Mar 2008
#5 ·
oceanfront said:Is it ethically acceptable to force-feed a defendant when doctors determine that refusing food poses a direct threat to their life?
I maintain that a defendant undeniably possesses the (moral) right to refuse sustenance.
The question is simply where the boundaries of that right lie.

Now, I find myself wondering if it's ethical to obstruct an investigation or interfere with a court ruling. If I recall correctly, during an arrest, all items that could allow a detainee to take their own life are confiscated. This implies they aren't permitted to end their own lives.
There is no doubt in my mind that blackmail is unethical, and by extension, supporting it is just as wrong.

🙂 🙂 🙂
Michelle Alvarez8 Michelle Alvarez8 Regular
299 messages
joined Nov 2015
#6 ·
OceanLover said:



It looks like hunger strikes are becoming the new trend.



Honestly? More lamb chops for me—if they aren't eating, I'm definitely eating! 🙂
neoncanyon39 neoncanyon39 Newcomer
5 messages
joined Dec 2006
#7 ·
So why wasn't it just a case of people being forced to eat certain things, instead of them actually starving them to death???...🙄
A Anonymous Veteran
3.6K messages
joined May 2005
#8 ·
oceanic said:

Is it actually ethical to force-feed a defendant if doctors decide their hunger strike is becoming life-threatening?

Generally speaking, force-feeding a defendant who has made a conscious, informed choice to go on a hunger strike—knowing full well the risks involved—is ethically indefensible. A better approach might be non-invasive, like sitting them down for a real conversation to try and change their mind. Since this person hasn't even been convicted yet, going on a hunger strike feels less like a protest and more like an attempt to interfere with the legal process, which is exactly what Mike pointed out earlier.
Harold James9 Harold James9 Active Member
76 messages
joined Mar 2008
#9 ·
la_chupacabra said:Why weren't they forcibly fed then? Why did they just let them starve to death instead?🙄

It comes down to hypocrisy. They wanted them dead, but without the death penalty, they couldn't carry out an execution.👎

🙂 🙂 🙂
Chris Peterson53 Chris Peterson53 Active Member
114 messages
joined Dec 2010
#10 ·
Harold James9 said:It comes down to pure hypocrisy. They basically wanted those people dead, but since we don't have the death penalty here in the States, they couldn't actually kill them.👎

🙂 🙂 🙂

Exactly—because this isn't some grand debate about universal ethics; it’s an indictment of the hypocrisy in this specific case. It’s hypocritical on both sides: the hunger strikers and the officials deciding their fate.

Generally speaking, suicide isn't illegal or punishable under any American law, provided it doesn't endanger anyone else—assuming you can even determine that before it happens.
If a person is acting out of pure free will—meaning they are fully conscious during both the decision and the act—it should be treated as such.
And if no one is assisting them (which *is* a crime), then no one should have the right to forcibly feed them either.

However, when hypocrisy—or more accurately, blackmail—is the driving force, then such a strike needs to be broken up immediately, by force if necessary.
hollowtrucker77 hollowtrucker77 Regular
681 messages
joined Nov 2007
#11 ·
I’ve always been one to favor a bit more free will in the mix, personally;
if someone actually wants to check out early, then hey, good luck to them, I guess.
Jason Johnson4 Jason Johnson4 Active Member
130 messages
joined Dec 2003
#12 ·
Look, here’s my take. I’d honestly just scrap that whole empty, pointless word "ethical" altogether.

He refuses to eat... but why? Usually, there's actually a reason behind it...

So, what are those reasons? You have to actually listen to what the guy is saying. Figure out if he’s genuinely refusing food or if he's just bluffing...😁 Then, you try to address whatever is causing the hunger strike. But if that’s just not an option? Well, let him starve. If it comes down to it, even if it leads to death... that's just how it goes.

😉
Austin Roberts8 Austin Roberts8 Member
34 messages
joined Nov 2006
#13 ·
That’s honestly irrelevant. He shouldn't have been released in the first place—period. Whether it’s "ethical" or not is just a side issue at this point. Honestly, I don't think they should even be force-feeding him; just let him, you know, pass away naturally.
Taylor Campbell4 Taylor Campbell4 Regular
369 messages
joined Jul 2009
#14 ·
It really comes down to this—either a society is just, or it isn't.

Think about it: an individual might go on a hunger strike for one of two reasons. Either they feel the system is fundamentally unfair and they're fighting for justice—making it a moral stand—or, quite simply, the person is struggling with their mental health.

Now, if we're looking at the latter—where someone’s perception of themselves and their role in the community is skewed due to illness—I actually think it's ethically sound to intervene forcefully to save their life. It's about preservation.

But here's the kicker: if the society truly *is* being unjust to them, and that injustice is what drives the hunger strike, shouldn't the state remain consistent? Should it not prevent the strike by force to avoid being unjust again?

So, we have these two distinct scenarios. Just some food for thought—nothing more than a bit of musing (don't quote me on this 😁).

Personally, I believe every hunger strike is a unique, individual situation. We shouldn't be shoving people into rigid categories or applying blanket rules; each case deserves its own scrutiny. Who should handle that? Well, doctors, certainly—perhaps a specialized medical board including specialists like psychologists. In fact, I remember reading about those psychologists in the States a few years back who actually integrate philosophy into their treatment methods.

Ultimately, hunger strikes are just symptoms—indicators of much deeper issues, systemic flaws, or even a lack of humanity within our social fabric.
In my view, unless a person has committed a violent crime—someone who poses a genuine threat to others—there is no reason for them to be behind bars. In this high-tech era, there are plenty of ways to prevent recidivism, whether it's fraud or drug offenses, without resorting to incarceration. Prison is often just a form of vengeance, and let's be honest, vengeance is rarely productive or good. It just creates a cycle where people leave prison looking to get even with the society that punished them.
The death penalty follows a similar logic, where the flaw in the system is even more glaring.
Rebecca Cox2 Rebecca Cox2 Active Member
70 messages
joined Mar 2004
#15 ·
Is a hunger strike justified when it serves as the final line of defense once every other avenue has been exhausted? When someone truly feels they have nothing left to lose but their own life, that kind of action carries a certain weight.

However, initiating a hunger strike before a trial even begins suggests a sense of guilt—as if the individual lacks the courage to face the American judicial system, regardless of how flawed it might be. Besides, shouldn't there be more substantial ways to mount a defense than simply offering up one's life? To me, this looks like nothing more than tacky media drama, a desperate attempt to preserve a false reputation among an unsuspecting public...

Personally, if someone chooses this path, I would let them reach their end (if that is truly their wish) and close the case for a while. That said, I don't have any issue with forced feeding either. We already accept forced medical treatment, involuntary rehab for addiction, and mandatory school attendance; why should this be viewed as any different?
Taylor Campbell4 Taylor Campbell4 Regular
369 messages
joined Jul 2009
#16 ·
When everything else fails, a hunger strike can be seen as a final, justifiable act of resistance.

Suicide is one of the seven deadly sins!

Honestly—and this is just my gut feeling—I don't buy the idea that a hunger strike, which is essentially a slow suicide, is ever truly the best way out. I’ve always believed that life doesn't work that way; there is almost always another path forward. It just seems to me that our ego—or that stubborn sense of pride we all carry—stops us from seeing those better options, driving us toward something as extreme as a hunger strike instead.
Rebecca Cox2 Rebecca Cox2 Active Member
70 messages
joined Mar 2004
#17 ·
Taylor Campbell4 said:Rebecca Cox2: I’d personally let someone like that pass away if that was their wish and just close the case for a while. That said, I don't have an issue with forced feeding. Since we already accept things like involuntary hospitalization, court-ordered rehab, or mandatory schooling, why is this any different?

That's incorrect. Children aren't people who possess human rights that shield them from being coerced into doing what's necessary.

If they aren't people, then what exactly are they? 😕

This kind of logic is the root of so much evil in our world. It grants parents absolute dominion over their children simply because the parents hold "human rights" while the kids supposedly don't...
Robert Taylor3 Robert Taylor3 Newcomer
3 messages
joined Dec 2006
#18 ·
From a purely materialistic standpoint, every single person should have total autonomy over their own body,... nobody has any business interfering with what someone else does, and they don't owe an explanation to anyone except God... at the end of the day, they're solely responsible for themselves...
obviously, force-feeding someone is immoral and absolutely revolting... if someone decides to go on a hunger strike, then let them strike until they die if that's where it leads... period...
I mean, are we really going to lock a person up behind four walls just because we assume they want to commit suicide, all under the guise of "helping" them?
it's like if you see a blind person on the street trying to cross the road... you reach out to grab their hand and they pull away... are you still going to force them across the crosswalk against their will?
God forbid...

as long as someone isn't being destructive toward their surroundings in every sense of the word—meaning they aren't physically harming others—there is absolutely no reason to force anything on them...
that's why I say... let them do drugs... let them go on hunger strikes... let them kill themselves... it's their choice...
it's true... it's tragic... and it's heartbreaking for their families and friends because they suffer while watching someone they love destroy themselves... but for God's sake... you can't provide forced assistance...
you can offer it... you can try your hardest to help them... but if it's crystal clear that the person doesn't want that help and is rejecting it... man, just leave them alone... why are you even pretending?
mistyscout2 mistyscout2 Active Member
197 messages
joined Feb 2007
#19 ·
Taylor Campbell4 said:That’s not quite right. Kids aren't considered people in that sense, which is why they don't have human rights and shouldn't be forced into things.

Kids aren't people? 😲 Wow, that's quite the take... Honestly, I find myself nodding along with Rebecca Cox2 on this one... And as for the whole concept of "human rights," we could probably sit here for hours and have a massive debate about how much there really is to say about that...
Robert Taylor3 Robert Taylor3 Newcomer
3 messages
joined Dec 2006
#20 ·
I remember telling my mom once that I was going to go on a hunger strike, and she just looked at me and said:
"Thank God... it's about damn time..." 😁

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