Are people born good or evil?

Sukuba said:But when it comes to character—whether someone is greedy, witty, honest, or kind—I don't view those traits as genetic. To me, that's pure character.

I see your point now. 🙂 Personally, I tend to think that "character" is somewhat inherited. It might not come directly from our parents, but perhaps from an ancestor further back, or it emerges from a blend of various ancestral traits. Just as we inherit physical features from many different relatives, yet our bodies remain unique individuals, I believe the psyche works similarly. It feels like a combination of all the genetic legacy passed down through generations. Of course, that isn't a proven fact, but it seems the most logical explanation to me. 😁

Maleficent said:I think I finally get what you're getting at. 🙂 For me, though, it feels like "character" is something we actually inherit—maybe not directly from our parents, but maybe from some distant ancestor, or just this weird cocktail of traits passed down through generations. It’s kind of like how we inherit physical features from all sorts of different relatives; even if we pull bits from everyone, our actual bodies still end up being unique. I figure the psyche works the same way—just a massive blend of all that genetic baggage we've been carrying for centuries. Of course, who knows? I could be totally wrong, but it’s the only thing that makes sense to me. 😁

Honestly, I checked out of the whole "logic and rationality" thing a long time ago. Everything seems possible to me now, no matter how crazy it sounds... as long as we're doing okay, right? 🙂 😉

gottcha said:Genes set the baseline, environment does the heavy lifting😛

It's all right there in the text👍

Environment shapes a person way more than genes ever could... DNA might just make someone more prone to certain behaviors, but it doesn't dictate them automatically

I honestly feel like we’re all just born a little bit wicked—I mean, if you really sit back and observe kids, they are incredibly selfish and self-centered from day one. It’s only through that whole "carrot and stick" style of parenting that they actually learn what's expected of them, right? They have to be taught how to function within a community where other people have needs that might not always align with their own whims. Though, I have to admit, even with the best upbringing, some people just never seem to get it...

Galatea said:We’re all unique individuals, right? Everyone reacts differently—partly because of how they first encounter something, which is obviously tied to a million different variables... and yeah, genetics play a massive role too.
Humans are just incredibly complex creatures. There are so many subconscious factors pulling our strings, but at the core, there's a foundation we all start from. And in my humble opinion, that foundation isn't inherently evil.

Yeah, people are complicated messes. We're shaped by everything—our experiences, our upbringing, the environment around us—which is why we all have such wildly different tastes and perspectives. Honestly, even if you took two people and forced them through the exact same life experiences—if that's even possible—they still wouldn't turn out the same. It comes down to personality. Whether those traits are baked into our DNA or forged some other way... I don't really know, but I tend to lean toward the latter. 🙄
As for whether humans are fundamentally good or not? Man, who knows. Maybe if we were raised in a completely different world, we’d be better versions of ourselves—or maybe not. Not that my rambling philosophy belongs here; we'll end up debating lab rats or something if I keep going, so I'll stop.
Anyway, it's nice that you believe people are fundamentally good. I wish I could share that optimism, but my view seems to shift depending on the day. I haven't quite figured it out yet.

Beta female said:I’d argue we’re born inherently bad. Look at kids—they’re incredibly selfish and self-centered. It’s only through a system of rewards and punishments that they learn how to behave and realize they have to function within a society where other people actually have needs that might conflict with their own. Though, unfortunately, for some people, even that doesn't work...

So, what exactly makes us "born evil" versus just testing our limits? And what's your alternative? Born with all the world's wisdom? 😁 especially regarding social skills 🤔

ironhawk36 said:I’d argue we’re born bad. Look at kids—they’re pure ego and selfishness. It’s only through "reward vs. punishment" parenting that they learn what’s expected of them, or how to actually function in a society where other people have needs that don't revolve around them. Though, for some people, even that doesn't work...

isn't that just called development? 😁

gottcha said:Why are we born evil instead of just testing our limits? How would you even want it? Born with all the knowledge in the world? 😁 especially when it comes to social skills 🤔

I don't think that was her point, though—because let’s be real, certain (!) kids can actually be pretty malicious. I’m not talking about being naughty; I mean genuinely cruel to other kids, almost like their capacity for empathy hasn't even hit a conscious level yet. It's just part of development, I guess... but it makes you wonder what society would look like if we grew up without any authority figures setting boundaries. Would we all just be acting out in some wild, hedonistic frenzy? Or maybe, if we left that core sense of human good and evil completely unchecked, we'd all just turn into straight-up bandits. Of course, that's a pretty black-and-white way to look at it—too simplistic, really. But I won't keep repeating myself...

Gulpa said:But wait—isn't that just what we call progress? 😁

Now, if my memory serves me right—and it usually does—the whole point of this discussion was whether people are actually born evil...

ironhawk36 said:If I recall correctly, the topic is whether people are BORN evil.

People are BORN incapable of anything beyond basic survival instincts—breathing, swallowing... 😉 Kids become "selfish and egoistic" because that's how they develop—observing other kids or absorbing it from parental "inputs."

Beta female said:I honestly think we’re just born bad—I mean, look at kids. They’re incredibly selfish and self-centered by nature. It’s really just parenting—that whole system of rewards and punishments—that teaches them how to act and how to function in a society where other people have needs that might actually clash with their own. Though, unfortunately, for some kids, even all that training doesn't work...

Yeah, I'm with you there. A lot of them turn out to be little ungrateful, cruel jerks who do nothing but tear down their peers and everyone else around them.

Neither.
We’ll decide as we go. 🙂

Piggy said:Yeah, I’d go as far as to say a lot of them are just ungrateful, cruel little brats who live to insult their peers and everyone else too.

because the older generation just doesn't know how to handle them.

ironhawk36 said:people are basically BORN incapable of anything beyond those primal survival instincts—you know, breathing, swallowing, the whole bit. 😉 Kids turn out "selfish and self-centered" because that’s just how they develop—they observe other kids or pick up on certain "inputs" from their parents.

Wait, so... they just "develop" that way? !!??
If we're following your logic, why does one kid soak up all the good traits from their peers while another kid picks up all the bad habits under the exact same circumstances!!?? It makes zero sense to me.

There’s also the whole hereditary factor—genes, obviously—and then you have actual damage to specific neural structures in the brain that can dictate maladaptive behavior, or even biochemical imbalances that can start forming while a baby is still in the womb... and so on. 😎

- People are born with a certain temperament that is, for all intents and purposes, set in stone at birth.

- As we grow, everything from our parents to our social circles and our environment shapes who we become, molding both our strengths and our flaws.

- Ultimately, the weight falls on the individual; hitting adulthood isn't just about getting a driver's license or gaining legal rights—it’s about stepping up and taking full ownership of how we conduct ourselves.

- Past frustrations, like stuff from childhood, shouldn't serve as an "excuse" for acting out or being irresponsible once we're grown; we are continuously shaped by life and the society around us.
- At the end of the day, we choose our own path—not everyone who had a rough upbringing turns out poorly, just as not everyone with a perfect childhood grows up to be a saint.

- Every adult, provided they are mentally sound, carries the responsibility for their own actions and choices!!!

crimsonhound80 said:How exactly do they... "develop." !!??
If one kid picks up good habits from their peers (according to your theory), why does another kid pick up bad ones under the exact same circumstances !!??

There's genetics—heredity—and then there's physical damage to neural structures in the brain that can trigger maladaptive behavior, or biochemical imbalances that develop while the child is still in the womb... etc. 😎

Give me one kid with "bad" genes and one with "good" ones... isolate them from their environment and raise them identically -> they'll both end up selfless and unselfish—to whatever degree... It works the other way too: put them in a toxic environment and both kids will turn out malicious, selfish, and egotistical.

Like I said—genes determine a predisposition toward something (like alcoholism or depression), but all those things are triggered by external factors first 😉

ironhawk36 said:Give me one kid with "bad" hereditary genes and another with "good" ones... if I isolate them from their surroundings and raise them identically, they'll both turn out selfless and unselfish—to whatever degree. It works the other way, too: put them in a toxic environment, and both children will grow up spiteful, selfish, and egotistical.

Like I mentioned before, genetics might set the stage for certain inclinations—think alcoholism or depression—but everything is ultimately triggered by some external factor first. 😉

- There have actually been studies done on twins who were separated and adopted into completely different environments and families...

- Regardless of the genetic makeup, social circumstances tended to win out, and in some cases, their behavioral paths ended up being totally different from one another.

Yeah, that's exactly my point... it's not all just genetics

Well, that’s exactly my point here 😬

It isn't all just about "social circumstances," either.

Exclusivity doesn't exist.

ironhawk36 said:just give me one kid with "bad" hereditary genes and another with "good" ones... isolate them from their environment and raise them the same way -> they'll both turn out selfless and non-egoistic—to whatever degree... It works the other way, too: put them in a toxic environment and both kids will end up malicious, selfish, and egoistic.

Look, those would be human experimentation trials, which are strictly illegal under US law 😬 😬 and since they've never actually been conducted under strictly controlled conditions they really only exist as theoretical assumptions.

I’m sticking to my guns: some people are just born with a bit too much "bad blood" in them, and in "standard" environments, they tend to turn out wicked 😛 in most cases—though I suppose it's not an absolute rule.

normall said:Well, I’m actually on the same page regarding that. 😬

It isn't just about "social circumstances," either.

There is no such thing as exclusivity.

I mean, we're talking about scientific experiments on humans that are strictly illegal under US law 😬 😬 and since they have never been performed under strictly controlled conditions they essentially exist only as theoretical assumptions.

I still lean toward the idea that some individuals are simply born with an inherent predisposition toward darkness, and when placed in "typical" environments, they become criminal 😛 in most instances, though certainly not always.

👍

- every single person is an individual, and we can never truly generalize when it comes to human beings.