Music school recommendations?

Kate Thomas said:Honestly, you’re much better off waiting until senior year of high school!!

I have no idea what you're basing such an utterly flawed claim on—honestly. Anything starting after the 3rd grade is just too late, if you ask me.

Nicholas King said:Well, you had to show up because your parents were essentially forcing you—which, frankly, seems like a pretty ridiculous way for them to handle things. That doesn't really have anything to do with the actual point we're discussing here.

don't rely too heavily on whether the local music conservatory thinks your kid has talent or not; listen to what the child tells you instead. 🤷

A child can't exactly determine if they have "musical aptitude" or not—that’s what the instructors at the conservatory are trained to assess. What a child *can* tell you is whether or not they actually enjoy attending their lessons.

I don't know, back when I was in third or fourth grade, my music school told my parents I couldn't really sing. They signed me up for choir anyway, though we didn't actually start performing right away. I think I passed the entrance audition by singing something basic like "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" or some other nursery rhyme nightmare. 🤷

And I didn't even go to choir because I wanted to; my parents dragged me there because it was a mandatory part of the curriculum at the academy. I wasn't interested, so I’d just stand there with my mouth open. Looking back, I know that sounds perfectly logical to everyone else, but in hindsight, the whole setup feels a bit ridiculous.🤷

Jessica Chavez4 said:I don't know, back when I was in third or fourth grade, my music school told my parents I couldn't really sing. They signed me up for choir anyway, though we didn't actually start performing right away. I think I passed the entrance audition by singing something basic like "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star" or some other nursery rhyme nightmare. 🤷

And I didn't even go to choir because I wanted to; my parents dragged me there because it was a mandatory part of the curriculum at the academy. I wasn't interested, so I’d just stand there with my mouth open. Looking back, I know that sounds perfectly logical to everyone else, but in hindsight, the whole setup feels a bit ridiculous.🤷

Having enough musical intuition to pass an audition for a conservatory and actually being able to "sing" are two very different things.

and I didn't even have to go to choir because my parents forced me to.

So your parents were (I assume 😕) forcing you into this music school where the teachers were completely unhinged, and the ear training instructor was a total drunk. Honestly, looking at how you describe everything with such sheer disgust, it’s almost impossible to fathom how you ever participated in any of it by choice—or with any sense of joy, for that matter.

Nicholas King said:I have no idea what you're basing such an utterly flawed claim on—honestly. Anything starting after the 3rd grade is just too late, if you ask me.

😕 Too late for what exactly???
Too late to learn an instrument?
To become the next Chopin?
I’ve always had a passion for the piano, and I actually taught myself how to play when I was 25. Sure, I probably won't be playing sold-out shows at Carnegie Hall, but I can use both hands and I play for my own soul and even for work sometimes. Ahhh, I am just so proud.☕

John Thomas13 said:😕 Too late for what exactly???
Too late to learn an instrument?
To become the next Chopin?
I’ve always had a passion for the piano, and I actually taught myself how to play when I was 25. Sure, I probably won't be playing sold-out shows at Carnegie Hall, but I can use both hands and I play for my own soul and even for work sometimes. Ahhh, I am just so proud.☕

No. It’s just too late to actually enroll in a formal music conservatory—and let's be clear, that isn't quite the same thing as simply "learning to play."

BTW, I was actually responding to the thread that starts with "it's best to"...

Nicholas King said:No. It’s just too late to actually enroll in a formal music conservatory—and let's be clear, that isn't quite the same thing as simply "learning to play."

BTW, I was actually responding to the thread that starts with "it's best to"...

In my experience, kids here usually start around 3rd grade, and mine did. They just wanted to sign up, then they ended up dropping out after three years.
At least they learned how to read music, I guess. 😉

John Thomas13 said:In my experience, kids here usually start around 3rd grade, and mine did. They just wanted to sign up, then they ended up dropping out after three years.
At least they learned how to read music, I guess. 😉

It’s such a shame—because of that one single year, my child missed the admission cutoff by a mere two points.

if nothing else, at least they learned how to read music notation😉

Well, I suppose you could pick that up in elementary school anyway.

Nicholas King said:I have no idea what you're basing such an utterly flawed claim on—honestly. Anything starting after the 3rd grade is just too late, if you ask me.

Why's that?🤷

It really depends on which instrument you’re eyeing; some programs have later enrollment windows.

http://www.garfieldschoolofmusic.com/about

I suppose I should address this—though I’m not entirely sure where to begin with such a disorganized mess of thoughts—but there is something fundamentally irritating about how things are being handled lately. It feels like we are constantly circling the same drain, much like that one time my old boss at Boeing tried to tell me that a structural flaw was just a "minor optimization opportunity"—as if that makes any sense at all. I mean, honestly, does anyone actually care about the details anymore? Everything seems to be moving toward this frantic, superficial rush, and frankly, it's exhausting to watch. I guess some people find it exhilarating—maybe they thrive on the chaos—but for those of us who actually value precision and a bit of decorum, it’s nothing but a headache. It's almost as if we've collectively decided that doing things correctly is far too much effort compared to just getting them done poorly. I don't know... perhaps I'm just being overly cynical here, but it certainly feels that way. kaže:
Why on earth would anyone even ask that? I mean, honestly—it seems like such an obvious question that I’m almost hesitant to even attempt an answer, given how much nuance is involved. I guess it depends entirely on what we're actually talking about, doesn't it? There isn't just one single reason for anything in this life—everything is layered, complicated, and frankly, a bit exhausting if you think about it too deeply. But maybe, just maybe, there’s some underlying logic we’re all missing. Or perhaps there isn't. It’s hard to say for sure without more context, but I suspect the answer is far less simple than most people would care to admit.🤷

It’s really about the fine motor skills and all that other practical stuff—plus, I suppose there's a certain convenience to finishing both music school and your regular high school at the same time.

Jessica Chavez4 said:It really depends on which instrument you’re eyeing; some programs have later enrollment windows.

http://www.garfieldschoolofmusic.com/about

I honestly missed where you spotted that on the linked page—anyway, thanks for sending the link over. It’s about time someone actually pointed out a source that explicitly mentions they aren't even enrolling older kids from...
I suppose we have officially reached the milestone of finishing second grade.

Nicholas King said:

I suppose I should address this—though I’m not entirely sure where to begin with such a disorganized mess of thoughts—but there is something fundamentally irritating about how things are being handled lately. It feels like we are constantly circling the same drain, much like that one time my old boss at Boeing tried to tell me that a structural flaw was just a "minor optimization opportunity"—as if that makes any sense at all. I mean, honestly, does anyone actually care about the details anymore? Everything seems to be moving toward this frantic, superficial rush, and frankly, it's exhausting to watch. I guess some people find it exhilarating—maybe they thrive on the chaos—but for those of us who actually value precision and a bit of decorum, it’s nothing but a headache. It's almost as if we've collectively decided that doing things correctly is far too much effort compared to just getting them done poorly. I don't know... perhaps I'm just being overly cynical here, but it certainly feels that way. kaže:
Why on earth would anyone even ask that? I mean, honestly—it seems like such an obvious question that I’m almost hesitant to even attempt an answer, given how much nuance is involved. I guess it depends entirely on what we're actually talking about, doesn't it? There isn't just one single reason for anything in this life—everything is layered, complicated, and frankly, a bit exhausting if you think about it too deeply. But maybe, just maybe, there’s some underlying logic we’re all missing. Or perhaps there isn't. It’s hard to say for sure without more context, but I suspect the answer is far less simple than most people would care to admit.🤷

It’s really about the fine motor skills and all that other practical stuff—plus, I suppose there's a certain convenience to finishing both music school and your regular high school at the same time.

I honestly missed where you spotted that on the linked page—anyway, thanks for sending the link over. It’s about time someone actually pointed out a source that explicitly mentions they aren't even enrolling older kids from...
I suppose we have officially reached the milestone of finishing second grade.

Sure, being convenient is one thing, but saying it’s actually "practical"? Not really:

Anything after third grade is too late.

That sounds kind of weird to me. Can you really not start later? Is it not practical? Do you not learn enough? Are you just a year older than everyone else?
Or is it seriously... way too late, like there's no point at all and it's hopeless... like if you don't start a year earlier, you have zero chance at anything?
By the way, why wouldn't it be practical to finish music training after middle school? I'm sure some people don't even go on to high school for music.

Rachel Jones8 said:Sure, being convenient is one thing, but saying it’s actually "practical"? Not really:

Anything after third grade is too late.

That sounds kind of weird to me. Can you really not start later? Is it not practical? Do you not learn enough? Are you just a year older than everyone else?
Or is it seriously... way too late, like there's no point at all and it's hopeless... like if you don't start a year earlier, you have zero chance at anything?
By the way, why wouldn't it be practical to finish music training after middle school? I'm sure some people don't even go on to high school for music.

I previously hesitated to bring up the fact that High Schools don't even consider older kids—mostly because I didn't have the hard evidence or solid arguments to back it up at the time, despite hearing it mentioned quite frequently.

Looking at the link someone shared here, it clearly states that High School enrollment is reserved for students who have just finished either 1st or 2nd grade. I suppose there might be exceptions, but those would likely require some pretty substantial justification—maybe continuing a curriculum from a private tutor or demonstrating some sort of extreme giftedness or something along those lines.

Nicholas King said:

I suppose I should address this—though I’m not entirely sure where to begin with such a disorganized mess of thoughts—but there is something fundamentally irritating about how things are being handled lately. It feels like we are constantly circling the same drain, much like that one time my old boss at Boeing tried to tell me that a structural flaw was just a "minor optimization opportunity"—as if that makes any sense at all. I mean, honestly, does anyone actually care about the details anymore? Everything seems to be moving toward this frantic, superficial rush, and frankly, it's exhausting to watch. I guess some people find it exhilarating—maybe they thrive on the chaos—but for those of us who actually value precision and a bit of decorum, it’s nothing but a headache. It's almost as if we've collectively decided that doing things correctly is far too much effort compared to just getting them done poorly. I don't know... perhaps I'm just being overly cynical here, but it certainly feels that way. kaže:
Why on earth would anyone even ask that? I mean, honestly—it seems like such an obvious question that I’m almost hesitant to even attempt an answer, given how much nuance is involved. I guess it depends entirely on what we're actually talking about, doesn't it? There isn't just one single reason for anything in this life—everything is layered, complicated, and frankly, a bit exhausting if you think about it too deeply. But maybe, just maybe, there’s some underlying logic we’re all missing. Or perhaps there isn't. It’s hard to say for sure without more context, but I suspect the answer is far less simple than most people would care to admit.🤷

It’s really about the fine motor skills and all that other practical stuff—plus, I suppose there's a certain convenience to finishing both music school and your regular high school at the same time.

I honestly missed where you spotted that on the linked page—anyway, thanks for sending the link over. It’s about time someone actually pointed out a source that explicitly mentions they aren't even enrolling older kids from...
I suppose we have officially reached the milestone of finishing second grade.

But if you look further down the page, it says 😕

If you miss the window for standard music school, students between 12 and 15 can enroll in one of two PREPARATORY PROGRAMS to get into the MUSIC HIGH SCHOOL for specific instruments: bassoon, harp, clarinet, double bass, oboe, French horn, saxophone, tuba, trombone, and percussion. These prep programs allow older, more driven students to make up for missing the initial music school years, which isn't even an option for certain instruments like the double bass, tuba, bassoon, or percussion.

Jessica Chavez4 said:But if you look further down the page, it says 😕

If you miss the window for standard music school, students between 12 and 15 can enroll in one of two PREPARATORY PROGRAMS to get into the MUSIC HIGH SCHOOL for specific instruments: bassoon, harp, clarinet, double bass, oboe, French horn, saxophone, tuba, trombone, and percussion. These prep programs allow older, more driven students to make up for missing the initial music school years, which isn't even an option for certain instruments like the double bass, tuba, bassoon, or percussion.

Thanks. I missed 🙈.

Admittedly, I was aware that the rules might differ for certain "major" or larger wind instruments—it's just that most parents rarely have the double bass in mind when they think of "music school"🙂.

Nicholas King said:

I suppose I should address this—though I’m not entirely sure where to begin with such a disorganized mess of thoughts—but there is something fundamentally irritating about how things are being handled lately. It feels like we are constantly circling the same drain, much like that one time my old boss at Boeing tried to tell me that a structural flaw was just a "minor optimization opportunity"—as if that makes any sense at all. I mean, honestly, does anyone actually care about the details anymore? Everything seems to be moving toward this frantic, superficial rush, and frankly, it's exhausting to watch. I guess some people find it exhilarating—maybe they thrive on the chaos—but for those of us who actually value precision and a bit of decorum, it’s nothing but a headache. It's almost as if we've collectively decided that doing things correctly is far too much effort compared to just getting them done poorly. I don't know... perhaps I'm just being overly cynical here, but it certainly feels that way. kaže:
Why on earth would anyone even ask that? I mean, honestly—it seems like such an obvious question that I’m almost hesitant to even attempt an answer, given how much nuance is involved. I guess it depends entirely on what we're actually talking about, doesn't it? There isn't just one single reason for anything in this life—everything is layered, complicated, and frankly, a bit exhausting if you think about it too deeply. But maybe, just maybe, there’s some underlying logic we’re all missing. Or perhaps there isn't. It’s hard to say for sure without more context, but I suspect the answer is far less simple than most people would care to admit.🤷

It’s really about the fine motor skills and all that other practical stuff—plus, I suppose there's a certain convenience to finishing both music school and your regular high school at the same time.

I honestly missed where you spotted that on the linked page—anyway, thanks for sending the link over. It’s about time someone actually pointed out a source that explicitly mentions they aren't even enrolling older kids from...
I suppose we have officially reached the milestone of finishing second grade.

That whole thing about motor skills just isn't right, at least when you're talking about piano. I know this from my own experience—even though I didn't start music school until second grade—and I know it for a fact from a family member who's a professional musician.

David Miller5 said:That whole thing about motor skills just isn't right, at least when you're talking about piano. I know this from my own experience—even though I didn't start music school until second grade—and I know it for a fact from a family member who's a professional musician.

Let's look at this logically: your entire argument rests on a single anecdotal instance involving one "professional musician"—which, if you think about it, isn't much of a data set—whereas my position is based on the actual policy stated in the link provided, which shows that most local music programs generally don't accept children past the 2nd grade. I mean, it seems perfectly reasonable to assume there's a specific, intentional reason behind such a criterion.

I really have no desire to drag this out or engage in some sort of intellectual sparring match.

Come on, let's not fight about this. If the local music schools aren't cutting it, you can always look into a rock academy or something similar. I mean, if you aren't aiming to be some world-class concert pianist and just want someone who can play for a good party, there are plenty of ways to get there.

The age you enroll your kid really depends on how the school handles things. You’ll always find two camps fighting it out: instrumental teachers who want kids starting ASAP, and theory teachers who think they should wait a bit. In a place like Chicago, the consensus is usually that 3rd grade is the sweet spot.
I put my kid in during 1st grade, and honestly, I messed up. He just couldn't keep up with the music theory level, which was designed for older kids. Now he's stuck repeating his first year.

Nicholas King said:I have no idea what you're basing such an utterly flawed claim on—honestly. Anything starting after the 3rd grade is just too late, if you ask me.

That’s not necessarily true.
We actually enrolled our daughter in music school during fourth grade.
Based on her teacher's recommendation back in second grade, she was put on an accelerated track, which allowed her to wrap up both second and third grade levels in a single school year.
Because of that, she finished her primary music studies right around the same time she finished elementary school.

And honestly, she still loves playing today.🙂

Even just completing four years of music school is enough to get those extra credit points when applying to High School.