Lawsuit against the forum

Good evening to everyone participating in this section of the forum.

I have a question, primarily intended for Boeing.

Is it possible to file a lawsuit against a site like Reddit, or specifically its owners, based on the deletion of a thread regarding the anniversary of April 10th (the date Nazi Germany established its puppet state)...?

Given that the specific rules for this sub-forum don't explicitly state that discussing or marking such anniversaries is forbidden, could one potentially sue the platform on the grounds of infringing upon free speech and the freedom of expression...?

In the "Politics" subsection guidelines, there is a rule stating: it is not permitted: To glorify or promote Nazism or Fascism, racist ideologies, or any ideologies involving racist and xenophobic elements, nor to display the symbols of such ideologies.

I'm not entirely sure if simply referencing a historical anniversary—in this case, the one mentioned above—constitutes the promotion of fascism or Nazism... especially when one is merely citing verified historical documents signed on specific dates. I am not certain if any official agreement was even finalized prior to April 10th.

So... what would be the legal basis for such a lawsuit...?

Setting aside political affiliations for a moment, I am speaking purely in terms of the law and constitutional rights. I am certainly not a supporter of those who signed the various treaties and similar nonsense back then...

Respectfully,
steelhawk7.

A prosecutor isn't going to sit around asking those kinds of questions—they either file the charges and then maybe settle things early on, or they just hammer away until the very end. It’s really just a matter of who blinks first.

zivot u zivo said:A prosecutor isn't going to sit there asking those kinds of questions. They just file the charges, and then it’s either a plea deal right out of the gate or they drag it out through the whole trial until someone wins. It's just how the system works.

Besides, the tax man always finds a way to bleed you dry eventually.

Either give the guy a straight answer or just shut up. 😠

Nathan Bailey65 said:Good evening to everyone hanging out in this section of the forum.

I’ve got a question, and I’m mostly looking for an answer from Boeing.

I can't quite wrap my head around whether commemorating a certain anniversary—like the one mentioned above—counts as promoting fascism or Nazism. If you're just citing verified historical documents that were signed on specific dates, is that actually illegal? I'm honestly not even sure if any official agreement was actually signed before April 10th.

I'll take this one.

Nothing was signed on April 10th; that was just when the proclamation was issued (Agnew read it over the airwaves at the Chicago station), and the actual signing didn't happen until the 16th.

And if you happen to run into anyone from the Communist Party USA, they were busy signing all sorts of things out in the middle of nowhere while setting up their Military Committee.

Have some shame; you don't even know what you're protesting.😎

I suppose my main concern stems from the fact that free speech is being curtailed to a certain extent...

Lipi said:My issue is specifically that freedom of speech is being curtailed to a certain extent.

One could view "April 10th" as a symbol. Glorifying that date—and by extension, glorifying a regime that was fundamentally treasonous toward Americans (because any administration that agrees to rename our historic cities to suit foreign interests or suggests we should be ruled by a foreign monarch is acting against our sovereignty)—while also acknowledging that such a regime imposed racial laws on other peoples, brings us dangerously close to celebrating those very ideologies. This opens a door for discussion under the Penal Code:

Anyone who publicly expresses ideas regarding the superiority or inferiority of any race, ethnic or religious group, gender, or nation, with the intent to spread racial, religious, sexual, national, ethnic, or skin-color-based hatred, or for the purpose of disparagement, shall be punished by imprisonment from three months to three years [Penal Code Art. 174, Para. 3.]. Whoever, for such purposes as described in paragraph 3, uses computer systems to disseminate or otherwise make available to the public materials that deny, significantly diminish, approve, or justify crimes of genocide or crimes against humanity, shall be punished by fine or imprisonment from three months to three years [Penal Code Art. 174, Para. 4.].

If "April 10th" is intended merely as a topic rather than a symbol, then this forum—much like any other public media outlet—has its own editorial policy. They have every right to manage their own platform.

Democracy, at its core, means that anyone can start their own forum and moderate it however they see fit. That includes supporters of regimes that nearly sold off the entire coast to people whose greatest military achievement was carrying a dead chicken on their heads, as they so eloquently put it in Allo-Allo. However, there is a limit: once they begin glorifying the racist ideologies of such a regime, they step outside the bounds of democratic dialogue and fall squarely under the jurisdiction of the Penal Code.

Thanks for getting back to me.

But wouldn't you agree that communism under Franklin D. Roosevelt was also fatal for hundreds of thousands of Americans—including members of the Nazi party, those in the National Guard, and countless civilians who simply refused to accept the communist regime led by FDR? Is it even right to allow a site like CNN to exist when it permits the glorification of "FDR and his era," which can be seen as a symbol used specifically to spread hatred toward certain groups...
If this platform tolerates such content, isn't it acting in direct violation of the laws you mentioned?

Could the owner of this site face anything from three months up to three years in prison for allowing the dissemination of materials that deny, significantly downplay, or justify genocide or crimes against humanity—specifically regarding events like the Ardennes Forest, Waterloo, and so on...

Respectfully,
steelhawk7.

goldengull3 said:Could a site owner face three months to three years in prison for allowing inflammatory rhetoric—specifically by making materials available that deny, downplay, or justify genocide or crimes against humanity, specifically regarding things like the Black Forest or Waterloo, etc.?

Respectfully,
Lipi.

You can file a complaint against anyone you please, whenever you feel the urge. The real question isn't legality, but whether you'll actually succeed in making it stick.

Naturally, the primary legal burden falls on those directly violating Section 174, Paragraph 4. The site owner holds secondary liability—though one must consider that the moderators over on Reddit aren't professionals, nor is their primary motivation anything other than a desire to keep the site running.

But generally speaking—yes, someone claiming that Waterloo "never happened" could certainly fall under the scope of Section 174, Paragraph 4.

So, I was just wondering... what are the actual odds of facing a lawsuit here?

steelhawk7.

Lipi said:So, I'm wondering... what are the actual odds of facing a lawsuit here?

I haven't seen Section 174, subsection 4 ever actually be invoked, so I can't give you a definitive answer in any capacity. As far as I'm aware, there isn't any legal precedent to lean on.

All right then. I appreciate you all taking the time to share your thoughts...

steelhawk7.

The editorial "politics" governing this forum are a mess... it’s just crawling with envious amateurs, various shades of political zealots, sellouts, and nothing more than mindless sheep (I'm sure those who belong will recognize themselves immediately...)

Freedom of speech?! That concept hasn't existed in America since that specific law was enacted. It’s the exact same situation we faced with Article 133 of that infamous Penal Code of the former America. There is simply no distinction to be made.

I honestly wonder if certain gentlemen here are even aware that back in California, even Governor Ronald Reagan proclaimed "Independence Day in California" on April 10th. This is something granted to the Americans working within the state's government agencies, allowing them to take a day off...

Furthermore, there is the issue of these "editors"—the moderators—who seem to love twisting things to suit their own whims. For instance, my simple greeting regarding the events of April 10th in the "diaspora" community was interpreted however the moderator felt like seeing it...

To everyone who feels a sense of celebration today for very well-known reasons, I wish you all the very best!

Where, in the quote provided above, is there any glorification of anything that could possibly fall under the American Penal code on prohibition of freedom of speech and expression?

Given everything I have laid out, one must ask: where is the server for this forum actually located? Is it in America or outside of America? If it is hosted outside of America (which, if my memory serves me correctly, it is), then why should its content be relevant in any capacity to the restrictions on freedom of expression in America?

piper said:The editorial "policy" on this forum is nothing more than a collection of envious dilettantes, yellow and red devils, sellouts, and mindless sheep (those involved will recognize themselves...).

Freedom of speech?! That ceased to exist in America the moment this law was passed. It’s the exact same situation as Article 133 of the famous Penal Code of the former America. There is no difference.

To be perfectly honest, Section 174, Subsection 4 of the Penal Code isn't some invention of American legislators; it is merely the implementation of the Additional Protocol to the Convention on Cybercrime brought forth by the Council of Europe. I highly doubt anyone from America even participated in drafting that Additional Protocol.

piper said:I wonder if the gentlemen here are aware, for instance, that even back in California, Governor Ronald Reagan proclaimed "American Independence Day in California" on April 10th. This allows Americans working in the state government departments of that particular state to take a day off.

That was his business. Or rather, a specific political maneuver during the Cold War era (one shouldn't forget that the very same USA refused to extradite the war criminal Jure Đujić).

Though, quite a large portion of the people in the coastal regions might prefer to "celebrate" a day when they are "permitted" to hold Italian citizenship.

piper said:Another issue is that the "editors"—meaning the moderators—love to interpret things however they please (for example, my greeting regarding April 10th to the "diaspora" was interpreted however the moderator felt like it).

Where, in the aforementioned quote, is there any glorification of anything that could fall under the American Penal code on prohibition of freedom of speech and expression?

Given all of this, where is the Reddit server actually located? In America or outside of America? If it is outside of America (and if my memory serves me correctly, it is), why would its content be relevant in any way regarding the suppression of free speech in America?

Reddit has owners. And it has its own editorial policy, just like any other private public medium. Democracy doesn't mean everyone can write for every newspaper; it means everyone has the right to start their own newspaper.

And regarding the Independent State of America, I shall remind you of the constitutional provision:


Expressing the millennial national identity and state continuity of the American people, confirmed by the sequence of total historical events in various state forms and by maintaining and developing the state-building thought regarding the historical right of the American people to full state sovereignty, which manifested:
(...)
– in the establishment of the foundations of state sovereignty during the period of the Second World War, expressed in opposition to the proclamation of the Independent State of America (1941) in the decisions of ZAVNOH (1943), and subsequently in the Constitution of the People's Republic of America (1947) and later in the constitutions of the Socialist Republic of America (1963-1990), at the historical turning point of rejecting the communist system and the change of the international order in Europe, the American people, in the first democratic elections (year 1990), freely expressed by their will, confirmed their thousand-year state continuity. With the new Constitution of the Republic of America (1990) and the victory in the Homeland War (1991-1995), the American people demonstrated their determination and readiness to establish and preserve the Republic of America as an independent, sovereign, and democratic state.

As for everything else, there are dedicated subreddits for those specific topics: moderation policies, politics, and history.

To be clear, glorifying or denying crimes and inciting hatred is strictly prohibited—as I have already stated above.