Taking out a loan just to pay the phone bill

dustyscout53 said:And what you'd pay $17 without any regrets, haha... yeah, I believe you. 😉

Man, seriously—stop playing dumb with me. I’ve got cookies waiting for me at home and here I am just messing around with you!!!

I never said I'd pay them without feeling the sting—honestly, it would hurt like hell because scraping up $8,000 is no joke... I'd probably have to take out a loan or something. But hey, like I said, we all own our mistakes, right?

Jose Miller3 said:Look, seriously, stop playing dumb just to mess with me. I've got cookies waiting for me at home, and here I am wasting my time bickering with you...

I never actually said I wouldn't be upset about paying it, though I definitely would be. It’s not like I can just pull $4,000 out of thin air; I’d probably have to take out a personal loan just to cover it. But, like I mentioned before, at the end of the day, a person has to own up to their own mistakes, right?

If you're already acknowledging that you messed up, then what's the point in complaining about it? 😕

☕

Jose Miller3 said:Look, stop playing dumb just to mess with me—I’ve got cookies waiting for me and I really don't have time for this nonsense!!!

I never said I wouldn't pay it—honestly, I'd be pretty devastated because scraping together $40k would be brutal... I'd probably have to take out a loan or something. But hey, at the end of the day, you own your mistakes, right?

Okay, fine, they get paid. But I wouldn't want someone cutting my hand off just because I parked in the wrong spot, or taking my head off because I forgot to pay for a beer at the pub. Seriously, lady, we're talking about $17. You could buy a decent used car for that kind of cash.

And how much of that $17 is actually pure profit for Verizon? It's not like they're going bankrupt if they let this one go, right?

Regret isn't the same thing as a formal complaint...

dustyscout53 said:But how much of $17 Verizon's actual bottom line are we talking about here? Just making sure they don't go bankrupt if they decide to walk away from it all...

And what about cutting ties with everyone who had a dialer installed? Or the parents whose teenage kids were calling those premium hotlines? Or even just anyone who ended up with a massive bill this month because they spent way too much time talking to their girlfriend?

I mean, where do you even draw the line... is it at the first deaf handball player or...

ps: seriously though, those cookies are actually coming...

steelhawk7 said:An objection isn't quite the same thing as an appeal.

So, you're saying we can complain without actually filing a formal appeal? 😕

Or maybe I just missed a nuance somewhere in all this... 🤔 ☕

Jose Miller3 said:Where do you even draw the line?

In $1.75.

Man, some people are just stubborn—seriously. 😁 😁 😁

Go bake some cookies! 😛 😘 🙂

Bryan Sanchez86, look, what I'm talking about actually happened a few years back
The logs just "vanished," and back then, the telecom provider was basically their own little sovereign nation, and honestly, I just didn't have the energy to go to war with them—or the government—through the court system
I mean, I actually submitted a formal request to see the log files since I work in IT, but they shut me down without even blinking
So, a friend of mine who’s an attorney sent them a letter demanding access via a court-appointed expert, but by that point, the logs were already gone, yet they still had my bill sitting there as "proof"
Basically, they screwed me over without a second thought, and at the end of the day, I was stuck choosing between a lawsuit—which would cost me years of my life and interest rates I probably couldn't win or afford anyway—or just folding
I ended up paying, and they played nice enough to let me split it into six monthly installments

Basically, you really ought to dig into whether AT&T actually has any decent security protocols on their servers, because once you find a gap, you can start tearing their entire defense strategy apart

Lipi said:So... basically just complaining without actually filing an official grievance? 😕

I probably explained that kind of messy... hope it made sense...

Of course I’d feel terrible if I actually made such a massive mess of things—but if I found out I really did install a dialer, there's no way I'm sitting around being polite about filing an official complaint with AT&T...

Look, Kuzis, I’d be pretty gutted to lose $50k—I mean, that's a massive chunk of change—but honestly? I wouldn't even complain...

I guess I might need one now too... ☕

hollowtrucker77 said:Bryan Sanchez86, what I'm talking about happened a few years back
The logs just "vanished"—the carrier was basically acting like its own little kingdom—and I honestly didn't have the energy to go after them (the state) through the courts
Anyway, I put in a request to see the log files since I work in IT, and they just flat-out turned me down
After that, a lawyer friend of mine wrote to them demanding access via a court-appointed expert, but by then the log was gone, even though the bill was still sitting there as "proof"
Basically, they screwed me over without a second thought, and at the end, I had to weigh the risk of a lawsuit—years of fighting and interest rates that I probably couldn't win or afford back then
I ended up paying, and they "generously" let me split it into six installments

Hmm, yeah. The problem is our court system is "fast," too. And even if the amount isn't huge, it's just not worth the fight. Though, personally, I wouldn't have paid. No logs, no money. They have to prove you actually made those calls somehow, right? At least in court.
Man, at this rate, their employees could be calling anyone in the world and making sex calls, then pinning it on us. We really ought to look into consumer protection laws and other stuff related to this kind of thing.

Though, I swear, I occasionally see numbers on my bill that nobody in my house ever called. It happens. Like some random fishing club... but it's always just one or two calls a month, lasting maybe a minute or two. So it's not a massive amount.

Verizon could totally afford to drag their feet and wait over a year to roll out an anti-dialer tool—I mean, when you're sitting on a monopoly like that, who's actually going to force your hand?

$17Having to pay for your own lack of tech savvy? Honestly, that feels like way too much punishment. It's like getting hit by a semi-truck just because you didn't see a pebble in the road.

ban advisor said:If they uninstalled it and ended up with a dialer issue, can't they just sue AT&T for having buggy software? 🤔

Nah. In those terms you have to agree to before you even touch the anti-dialer, it basically says:

7. Software is provided to the user "as is" and with "best efforts," without any guarantee that this software will function correctly—either partially or fully—or without unintended consequences on any computer, nor that it will meet all the user's specific requirements, even though AT&T has thoroughly tested this software on all major versions of the Microsoft Windows operating system. AT&T has taken all reasonable steps to ensure the software is compatible with other programs the user might have on their machine, but cannot guarantee that the software's operations will be uninterrupted, error-free, or seamless, or that it won't cause material or any other damages. The term "without warranty" includes warranties of quality, fitness for a particular purpose, or any other warranties arising from any suggestion, specification, or sample.

8. AT&T is not responsible for issues caused by accidental occurrence, misuse, improper use, alterations, or inappropriate application of the software, nor for any damages resulting from such use.

9. AT&T has no control over how the user employs the software. Therefore, AT&T does not guarantee the effectiveness of the software. AT&T does not guarantee the accuracy or validity of all data within the software and therefore assumes no liability for inaccuracies, expired data, or any downtime caused by them.

Man, I guess lawyers really do need a way to make a living...

I was reading the news recently about how they dealt with these massive phone bill scams over in the United Kingdom. Apparently, the police jumped right on it with an international investigation to track down who actually owned those lines, and they told AT&T to step up and protect their customers from those kinds of calls. Basically, if they see one number spamming weird digits back-to-back, they alert the subscriber immediately and just block the line. Honestly, if AT&T shared its biggest dividend ever just to look out for its users like that, we'd be in business!
I have some family over in Switzerland, and they had this experience once. Out of nowhere, one of them gets a mobile bill that’s twice as high as usual. Since they don't get a detailed call log, they have no idea who they supposedly called. They call the carrier to file a complaint, and boom—the entire bill is wiped clean. They didn't have to pay a single cent for that month, let alone the regular amount. That is what true consumer protection and actually caring about people looks like. We are such a long way from the standards seen in Europe... really far away...

Paley said:I was reading recently that the United Kingdom dealt with similar issues regarding massive phone bills, but the police immediately launched an international investigation to identify the owners of those lines and ordered AT&T to protect their subscribers from such calls. Essentially, if they notice a single number repeatedly calling strange digits, the subscriber is notified immediately and the line is blocked. It’s hard to imagine Verizon would ever share its largest dividend yet just to look out for its customers like that.
One instance happened in Switzerland with my relatives. Out of nowhere, someone received a mobile bill twice as high as usual. Since they didn't get a call log, they had no idea who they were even calling. They contacted the carrier to file a complaint, and just like that, the entire bill was wiped clean—they didn't owe a single cent for that month, let alone the regular amount. That is what actual consumer protection looks like. We are lightyears away from the rest of Europe.

Even in Europe, those two examples you mentioned are unfortunately nothing more than rare exceptions.

In Germany, just like here in America, if you aren't careful and fall victim to a dialer, you're stuck footing the entire bill yourself. Though, since more people are on DSL now, that issue isn't quite as prevalent.
As for mobile bills, I can barely name someone who hasn't had issues with their carriers. Whether it's inflated totals, hidden fees—those things buried in the fine print under the fine print—or just the fact that text messaging is still way too expensive, it's a constant struggle.

So, Germany is far from the European standard as well.

(By the way, this whole talk about Europe is driving me crazy. Seriously, what do you all think? Do you actually believe companies in "Europe" are all honest and don't screw people over? Or that politicians in "Europe" are all saints who will magically fix everything and make life perfect?)

Michael Sullivan3 said:(...)

( Honestly, all this talk about Europe just makes me roll my eyes. Like, seriously, what do people actually think? That corporations over there are some kind of moral paragons that won't screw you over? Or that politicians in Europe are just saints waiting to fix everything while everyone lives in some utopia where everything is perfect? It's a joke. )

👍

Michael Sullivan3 said:In Germany, just like here in the States, if you aren't careful and end up getting hit by a dialer, you're stuck footing the entire bill yourself. Though, honestly, since everyone's moved over to high-speed broadband, that whole headache isn't even really a thing anymore.

Bottom line? That's it.

Just ditch those dialers and stick to broadband.

👍AT&T

Spot said:👍

It's... pretty easy for you to give a thumbs up from all the way over in Europe. 😁

ironcobra27 said:That’s exactly right.

Ditch those dial-up connections and just get DSL.

👍 AT&T

Sure, if you enjoy waiting nine months for a DSL installation.

Right here in Germany.

The state of things in Europe is just unbelievable!

Michael Sullivan3 said:Man, I actually waited nine whole months just to get my DSL set up.

In Germany.

Seriously, this is how things work in Europe!

Well, why don't you just move over here then?

You can get it installed almost instantly in the States. 😁