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Celibacy and boundary-crossing in sexual autonomy...

Started by Christian Lopez3 · · 👁 6 views · 34 replies

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Participants Christian Lopez3ABenjamin Price8Austin Hughes7ironhawk36Alex Rogers96Mark White932gentlepanther10ironcyclist78Walter Wilsonvividcyclist35Rebecca Roberts2
Benjamin Price8 Benjamin Price8 Member
28 messages
joined Mar 2005
#21 ·
They say Pope John XII basically invented new categories of sin that hadn't even existed since the dawn of time. It got so bad that entire monasteries would spend their days and nights just praying for him to finally kick the bucket. He actually turned his own residence, The White House, into a literal brothel. To make matters worse, he was dipping into the federal treasury just to cover his gambling debts. He ended up dying on May 14th, 964, at only twenty-four years old, after being caught red-handed in bed by the husband of one of his mistresses.

Innocent VIII (1484-92) left behind a massive trail of illegitimate children—eight sons and likely just as many daughters that he actually bothered to acknowledge. People used to call his entire reign "The Golden Age of Bastards." Beyond the family drama, he was also the one who greenlit the inquisition targeting suspected witches. It gets even darker, though: on his deathbed, he reportedly had to have a wet nurse brought to him just to satisfy a final, desperate craving for woman's milk.

Robert of Geneva had quite the reputation for being able to take a man's head off with nothing more than a pike. When he eventually ascended to become Pope Clement VII (1378-94), he didn't exactly change his ways—he was famously "much given to fleshy pleasure." Word around the halls was that he constantly kept himself surrounded by page boys, and people actually took notice of how their jackets would shrink from being knee-length down to the mid-buttock, or even worse.

Back in the day, Benedict XIII handed out a special dispensation for Richard II of England, who was twenty-nine at the time, so he could marry Isabella—the seven-year-old daughter of the King of France.

Imagine being twelve years old and suddenly finding yourself sitting on the throne of the Papacy. That was the reality for Benedict IX. This kid wasn't just a teenager; he was a nightmare. We’re talking about someone who allegedly engaged in bisexual acts, committed animal cruelty, sanctioned assassinations, and even toyed with witchcraft and Satanism. His lifestyle consisted of nothing but chaotic, bisexual orgies. He cycled through the papacy multiple times—holding the post in the years 1032–1044, again in 1045, and finally in 1047–1048. People didn't mince words about him, either. One contemporary called him "a demon from hell disguised as a priest," and Peter Damian was just as blunt, noting that the man spent his entire reign feasting on pure immorality. Even Dante looked back at this era and estimated that under Benedict IX, the papacy reached an all-time low in immorality and debauchery. It wasn't all just sin, though; it was violent. At twenty-three, he actually survived an assassination attempt where someone tried to strangle him right there at the altar during Mass. Eventually, Benedict ended up marrying his own cousin and essentially sold the entire papacy to his godfather, Gregory VI. It’s a pretty grim chapter of history.

Back in the year 440, pop Sixtus ii actually faced trial for seducing a nun.

Leo I (440-61) was nothing short of a twisted, sadistic monster. He actually forced people to confess to mixing semen into the sacraments, and he even used young girls at the altar for those purposes. On top of that, he was the very first Pope to claim the authority to execute anyone who dared to disagree with him.

Word on the street back then was that the former pirate, pop John XXIII, was actually an atheist. It wasn't just rumors, either—he allegedly tortured his own cardinals and supposedly kept some pretty wicked company with two of his own sisters. Even Robert Hallum, Bishop of Salisbury, didn't hold back, flatly stating that the man ought to be burnt at the stake.

The homosexual Pope Paul II had a pretty depraved streak—he reportedly got a kick out of watching naked men undergo torture and being put on the rack. There’s even talk that his end came when he suffered a heart attack right in the middle of being sodomized by one of his favorite young attendants.

John XIII (965-72)—and yeah, I’m aware there were multiple guys using that name—was basically condemned for being an adulterer who supposedly defiled both his father's concubine and his own niece. Word is he ended up dead at the hands of a furious husband after getting caught red-handed, following the exact same pattern as his old man, Pope John XII.

Sergius III (who held office from 904 to 911) had a reputation for indulging in sexual encounters with underage girls. The historian Baronius wasn't kind to him either, describing Sergius III as nothing more than "the slave of every vice." When he was around 45, Sergius took a 15-year-old mistress—an affair that actually resulted in a son who eventually ascended to the papacy as Pope John XI.

Anacletus (1130–1138) was a complete disaster. He was involved in incest with his own sister and multiple other female relatives, and he had a reputation for raping nuns. It’s just depraved.

Petrarch once took a shot at Pope Clement VI, calling him nothing more than an "ecclesiastical Dionysus" because of his endless, scandalous schemes. It wasn't exactly a secret that the guy lived a life of excess—he was constantly surrounded by mistresses and spent plenty of time with prostitutes. Even when he finally kicked the bucket, the attempts to save his soul felt almost performative. Fifty different priests stood up to say Mass for his soul for nine days straight, but honestly? Most people back then figured that wouldn't be nearly enough to stop him from heading straight to hell.

Pope Pius II (1458-64) was actually pretty famous for writing erotic literature, and he ended up fathering around 12 kids out of wedlock.

Then you have the Sistine Chapel, which was commissioned by Pope Sixtus IV (1471-84). He had six illegitimate sons, and one of them was actually the product of an incestuous relationship with his own sister.

Pope Julius II (1503-13), the guy who actually hired Michelangelo to do the ceiling in the Sistine Chapel, was a pedophile who spent most of his time hanging out with young boys and male prostitutes.

Back in 1095, Pope Urban II introduced the "callagium," which was basically a sex tax. It allowed the clergy to keep mistresses as long as they paid an annual fee to the papacy. The immediate fallout? It didn't really stop the behavior; it just reduced the number of concubines and led to a massive spike in clerical homosexuality.

Pope Paul III (1534-49) was involved in an incestuous relationship with his own daughter. To secure his family's inheritance, he went as far as poisoning several relatives, including his mother and niece. He even murdered two cardinals and a bishop from the States just to win a theological debate. Honestly, Paul III was likely the biggest pimp in the history of the US—he kept a list of roughly 45,000 prostitutes who all paid him a monthly tribute.

Pope Julius III (1550-55) committed sodomy against young boys, including his own illegitimate son. He also went around appointing several attractive teenage boys to the rank of cardinal. Even Cardinal della Casa’s famous poem, *In Praise of Sodomy*, was dedicated to him.
Christian Lopez3 Christian Lopez3 MemberOP
10 messages
joined Aug 2004
#22 ·
😱😱😱

I'm throwing in the towel...
Christian Lopez3 Christian Lopez3 MemberOP
10 messages
joined Aug 2004
#23 ·
Mark White932 said:What does celibacy even have to do with sex? 😁

They meddle because the Church is one of those institutions with enough power to actually meddle—into everyone's private sex lives, into how children are raised, into national politics, into the education system... It’s systemic. And as for those celibate types? They're having sex just like any other person.

It's always easiest to pass judgment from the sidelines..
Mark White932 Mark White932 Newcomer
7 messages
joined Nov 2004
#24 ·
Christian Lopez3 said:It’s always easiest to sit on the sidelines and judge...

Judge? If you're talking about priests and their extracurricular activities, I wasn't condemning them—I was giving them a compliment. You’ve gotta tear institutions down from the inside whenever you can. 🙂

And if you mean the Church? Those aren't opinions, they're just facts.
gentlepanther10 gentlepanther10 Member
13 messages
joined Nov 2005
#25 ·
Mark White932 said:I'm just saying—you and that cranky old lady are always going on about how dangerous it is to meet handsome young guys...🙄


Look, man, danger is basically just the spice of life...🥳
gentlepanther10 gentlepanther10 Member
13 messages
joined Nov 2005
#26 ·
Christian Lopez3 said:I’ve been sitting here wondering about something... How much can a church dominated by men living in strict celibacy actually mess with our own sexuality just because of that lifestyle? Like, is it some kind of weird compensation mechanism or what...?

Look, at the end of the day, that's all just theory and history...
I mean, let's be real—they're having sex too, and honestly, probably more than most...
I mean, I'm sure there are definitely people out there living the celibate life—even if it feels totally unnatural to me...
Honestly, I feel like I've already been through this whole phase...
Honestly, when you get down to it, all this talk about Christian celibacy? It’s basically just philosophy at this point... nothing more than high-minded theory.
So, I had this priest tell me once that I should just shape my faith however I need it to be—sort of like, make it fit my own life. It’s a pretty wild thing to hear, honestly. Like, you expect these guys to be super strict about the rules, right? But he was more like, "Hey, do what works for you." It kind of made me stop and think about how much of it is about following a script versus actually finding something real for yourself.
Just because they didn't see my face in church every single Sunday...!? Seriously?
I just told him straight up—look, God is everywhere if you believe, and I’m sure He’s watching over my neck of the woods too... but honestly? I just don't have the bandwidth for church right now. Between everything else going on, I really need to save that time for my kids instead.
Besides that, I honestly just spend every night lying in bed praying that I actually made it through the day like this...
When it comes to sexuality, honestly, it’s just a personal thing—everyone should be able to handle their own business privately.
As long as you can actually shoulder the weight of it... honestly.

👋
ironcyclist78 ironcyclist78 Member
23 messages
joined Mar 2005
#27 ·
Celibacy is a personal choice, regardless of what drives it. That’s perfectly fine.

But it becomes a problem when people who chose to stay single start lecturing everyone else about sex and having kids. Some roads you just can't go back on.
Walter Wilson Walter Wilson Newcomer
9 messages
joined Apr 2005
#28 ·
And which roads are there just no turning back from?...😎
ironcyclist78 ironcyclist78 Member
23 messages
joined Mar 2005
#29 ·
Walter Wilson said:And which roads don't have a way back?...😎

In this context, it’s those roads you take when you’ve made a specific sacrifice, only to feel strangely compelled to lecture others about it. If someone chooses to live a celibate lifestyle, fine—that’s their choice and it deserves respect. But there's no point in that same person trying to school everyone else on sex and sexuality, right?

I could expand on my "road theory" here 😁but let's stay on topic.
Walter Wilson Walter Wilson Newcomer
9 messages
joined Apr 2005
#30 ·
It’s got basically nothing to do with the "roads," but hey, whatever you say...🙂
ironcyclist78 ironcyclist78 Member
23 messages
joined Mar 2005
#31 ·
Walter Wilson said:It doesn't really have much to do with "roads," but whatever you say..🙂

Fair enough, I was using the road as a metaphor. I could have picked something else, but I thought the point I made—and explained twice—was pretty clear. I didn't view this thread as a debate over civil engineering; I saw it as a discussion about a specific aspect of human sexuality and the rights tied to it.
Walter Wilson Walter Wilson Newcomer
9 messages
joined Apr 2005
#32 ·
ironcyclist78 said:Look, I was just using the road as a metaphor. I could've picked anything else, but I'm pretty sure the point I made—which I already explained twice—is crystal clear. I didn't think this thread was some debate about civil engineering, it's about human sexuality and the right to it...

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😂
ironcyclist78 ironcyclist78 Member
23 messages
joined Mar 2005
#33 ·
Walter Wilson said:-----------------------------------------------------

😂

Glad I managed to get a laugh out of someone without having to dig through my collection of Groucho Marx jokes...
vividcyclist35 vividcyclist35 Newcomer
2 messages
joined Apr 2005
#34 ·
I’ve got a theory that priests are getting down and dirty way more often than us regular folks. Or maybe it's just about the same. If you don't see it my way, you're clearly just refusing to look at reality. I'm not saying every single one of them, but most are definitely sliding by on hypocrisy. At the end of the day, they're only human. They indulge because they think they're above the rules, and they go after women because they're under the delusion that they're too irresistible for even a man of the cloth to resist. That's just how it is.🙂
Rebecca Roberts2 Rebecca Roberts2 Member
28 messages
joined Jan 2008
#35 ·
In my view, their constant meddling in the private lives of everyday Americans stems from nothing more than pure resentment. It’s driven by a mindset like: If I can’t have it, nobody can. 😁

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