Soloing vs. Tradition: Do we really need "gurus"?

What are your thoughts on this?

Improvising can be quite seductive because it offers a thousand different ways to mask your own lack of discipline; however, there is a massive trap in simply wandering aimlessly and chasing superficialities.

On the flip side, leaning on tradition or following a "guru" is equally tempting, mainly because it relieves you of the burden of thinking—you just let someone else dictate your direction.

Perhaps the ideal approach lies in a synthesis, where tradition serves as the bedrock upon which an individual develops a technique tailored specifically to themselves.

I honestly feel like every bit of personal growth is its own unique journey that you have to cultivate just for yourself, though I do think tapping into certain old-school traditions can give you these massive shortcuts to insights that would otherwise take forever to figure out on your own. And please, let’s stay far away from that whole guru culture nonsense—in my book, it’s way better to have a diverse circle of spiritual mentors helping you along the way than to get stuck following one single, arrogant guru who thinks they know everything.

😛 I mean, shouldn't a guru actually be the embodiment of enlightenment, peace, and gentleness, rather than just being incredibly arrogant? It seems counterintuitive. But then again, where are you even going to find an authentic guru in the States? You’d probably have to trek all the way to India and wander through some desert just to track one down...

coppernomad59 said:😛 I mean, shouldn't a guru actually be this beacon of enlightenment, peace, and kindness instead of just being super full of themselves? Like, where are you even going to find an authentic guru in the States? You’d probably have to trek all the way to India and wander through some desert just to track one down...

Honestly, those are just clichés—the idea that a guru has to be the perfect embodiment of goodness. In my experience, as people grow spiritually, their ego tends to grow right along with it, too. Plus, the whole concept of a "guru" as a spiritual guide isn't strictly tied to India or Hindu traditions. We see similar roles played out in different ways right here in America, like how we look at influential figures like Reverend Zlatko Sudac.

cosmicharbor said:That's just typical fluff used to claim a guru has to be the picture of virtue—the idea that as your spiritual awareness expands, so does your ego...

I'm not even sure if it actually grows, but one thing's for certain: it definitely doesn't shrink.😁

Ryan Wilson2 said:What are your thoughts on this?

Going off on solo tangents is pretty tempting because you can find a thousand different excuses for just spinning your wheels. But there's a real danger in wandering aimlessly and just chasing easy wins instead of doing the actual work.

On the flip side, leaning on tradition or a "guru" feels safe. It’s easy when someone else is basically holding the map for you, so you don't have to do the heavy lifting yourself.

Maybe the sweet spot is a mix of both—using tradition as a solid foundation to build up a technique that actually works for you as an individual.

I personally think traditions are super useful. They give us a window into the experiences of people who were just like us. It's fascinating to dig into the history of human thought, compare it to what we're seeing in our own lives, and then find that balance. That said, I think it becomes really limiting if you turn a single tradition into its own end goal. If you turn it into a dogma and become a blind follower—thinking something is true just because some big-name expert said so without question—you lose something. Of course, it all comes down to where you are mentally. For some, it might feel like growth at first, but eventually, it usually ends up acting like a brake on your progress.

Look, man, when it comes to soloing...

I mean, this whole combination...

A guru should never be an object of worship...

They ought to be a mentor and a collaborator instead...

On my own journey, I’ve encountered two different mentors who gave me two specific warnings. These insights convinced me that if you want any kind of real
PROGRESS (actual change), you absolutely need a
MENTOR (a guru, a roshi, an adept)
🥳.

1) Just like you can't give yourself a decent haircut or style your hair properly

,
it's simply impossible for a person to "pull themselves out of the deep end" entirely on their own.

****
Of course... this applies to the manifested world—to the physical plane, or what one of my favorite characters from a movie would call the density of consciousness 🙂
.
****
It's top-tier advice—or as my favorite character might put it, "this is the absolute truth."

1) Cabbage is just cabbage.

2) In the end, ONLY our inner teacher will lead us to our destination—

because that teacher *is* the destination itself. 😉

cosmicharbor said:Those are just empty platitudes used to claim a guru has to be the embodiment of goodness. I suppose people argue that as spiritual awareness grows, so does the ego. Besides, the idea of a guru as a spiritual guide doesn't have to be strictly tied to India or Hindu traditions. You can see a version of this concept even within the Catholic Church, perhaps with someone like Father Zlatko Sudac.

😁 Well, as you pointed out, Zlatko Sudac is a Catholic priest. In that role, he isn't really a "guru" in the sense of guiding someone toward higher spiritual consciousness through magic. Magic isn't part of Christianity, after all; it's been discarded as a method for reaching those higher planes of existence.

Parsifal said:Along my path, I’ve crossed paths with two different teachers. They both gave me warnings that really stuck with me—warnings that convinced me that if you actually want to make real progress, or undergo some kind of true transformation, you absolutely need a teacher. A guru, maybe, or a roshi, or even just an adept. I guess that's just how it works.

It’s just one of those things, I guess. You can try, you really can. But there’s a limit to what you can achieve when you're staring at your own reflection in the mirror. It's nearly impossible to give yourself a truly decent haircut—or even attempt a decent style—without looking like you went through a wind tunnel. Maybe it's just physics, or maybe it's just me. Either way, a professional barber is probably worth the money. 🥳 You could just shave your whole head yourself. It’s pretty practical, really. I guess you wouldn't have to deal with any of that noise or hassle, either.

I guess you just can't pull yourself out of the deep end all on your own. It’s not really possible, is it? You need someone else to reach in.

Just like a child can’t be conceived without both a man and a woman, I suppose you can't bring a "new spiritual child" into the world without the shared effort of both teacher and student. A clone, on the other hand... well, that doesn't require a man at all.

****
Of course... though I suppose we’re really talking about the manifested world here. You know, the physical plane. Or maybe just the individual experience. It's hard to say for sure.ćOut of consciousness (as one of my favorite movie characters on this forum would say). 🙂

****
TOP-TIER. Or, if I were to channel one of my favorite characters, I’d say—this is the absolute, undeniable truth right here.

Cabbage is a lie.

Every single one of us is going to... Just... enough. Our inner teacher can guide us toward our destination—I guess. Maybe.

That’s just it—that is the whole point. 😉

🙄 🙄 And what exactly is the goal you're aiming for here? I mean, what makes this some kind of absolute truth? I guess it's all a bit subjective, isn't it?

parsifal said:2) NONE OF US WILL BE UNLESS OUR INNER TEACHER GUIDES US TO THE DESTINATION—
BECAUSE THAT TEACHER *IS* THE DESTINATION 😉

Exactly! We are part of God, so if we want to truly know God, we really have to get to know ourselves first. Ultimately, the journey leads right back to who we are.

coppernomad59 said:😁 Like you were saying, the judge is a Catholic priest, so he isn't some kind of "guru" who’s going to guide a magician toward higher spiritual awareness. Magic just doesn't fit into Christianity, and it's been totally pushed aside as a way to reach those higher levels of consciousness.

Honestly, Magica is basically woven right into the very foundations of the Catholic Church, but I guess you have to actually understand the core principles of Magica to see that. Without knowing the subject matter, you're really just making guesses rather than drawing actual conclusions...

And here is the list of gurus 😉

http://www.globalserve.net/~sarlo/RatingsA-B.htm

Regardless, the core issue remains unchanged: one requires at least a baseline level of intuition and deep self-awareness to select a tradition that truly resonates with their being. If we lack that necessary degree of self-knowledge, I believe astrology can serve as an incredibly powerful tool to guide us through that process.

Interesting site...

I've been wondering, Ryan Wilson2, have you ever actually had a mentor or a teacher???

How would you, say, go about picking a master...?
What kind of qualities would they absolutely need to possess?
And so on... if you even feel like answering....

Quoting one of the gurus from the list:

"I have nothing to tell humanity." "There are no rallies, no seminars, no classes, no specific techniques, no chants, no groups, no headquarters, no assistants, no phone numbers, no faxes, and no permanent office."

Ryan Wilson2 said:And here’s a list of those self-proclaimed gurus 😉

http://www.globalserve.net/~sarlo/RatingsA-B.htm

But look, the core issue hasn't changed: you still need a baseline level of intuition and some actual self-awareness to pick a tradition that truly resonates with who you are. If you haven't done the work to understand yourself yet, I honestly think astrology could be an incredible tool to help guide that journey.

If you're just being foolish, nothing is going to help you.

Maybe time 😁

boldsailor32 said:Here’s a quote from one of the gurus on the list:

"I have no message for mankind." "No gatherings, no lectures, no courses, no method, no mantras, no organization, no office, no secretary, no telephone number, no fax and no fixed address."

Yet, somehow, they still manage to stay in the media spotlight and get all this promotion. It's pretty ironic when you think about it. 🙄 😛

Balkanijan Pig said:He’s getting media coverage, though. He’s being promoted and recognized. It is quite interesting. 🙄 😛

Yes, it is interesting. 😉

V.

Man, seeing this whole list of gurus along with their ratings is honestly wild🙄