Opium Den

Casey Palmer5 said:I honestly think ecstasy is pretty terrible; it’s usually just overpriced junk. Look, I’ve never actually tried it myself, so I can't say for sure, but it doesn't strike me as some kind of "spiritual" drug to me.

The biggest issues always pop up when someone thinks they're an expert on something they clearly know nothing about. 😁

For anyone looking to get the facts straight: www.ecstasy.org

I’m honestly a little worried that I don't have a clue what I'm doing here. The quality of ecstasy on the American market is super sketchy right now. You aren't going to find any pure MDMA... there'll probably be just about everything else stuffed in there instead.

Casey Palmer5 said:I’m honestly worried about anyone actually knowing what they're getting. The quality of ecstasy on the streets here in the States is incredibly sketchy. You aren't going to find pure MDMA. It'll be cut with just about everything else under the sun.

That’s not entirely true, though it’s definitely fair to say drug quality is a massive issue... but that’s a direct consequence of criminalization!

Look, here's the thing... there are so many plants out there that are perfectly legal but incredibly, incredibly potent.

Right now, everyone seems to be obsessed with things like *S. divinorum* or *I. violacea*, but you can't just find those growing in your backyard here in the States. The stuff we have locally isn't really "in vogue," though you occasionally hear about some random poisoning incident when kids start messing around with things they shouldn't—I think there was actually a big news story about Datura a few years back...

At the end of the day, if you ask me, the mind is its own powerhouse. Most drugs just end up clouding your vision and making the path to self-discovery a whole lot harder than it needs to be...

befoodturntoshit said:[What are your thoughts on using various psychoactive substances (LSD, ecstasy, MDMA, marijuana, heroin, etc.) as tools for expanding one's spiritual horizons? Do you have any personal experiences with this? [/B]

I don't have any current plans to go down that path, but I certainly intend to conduct some experimentation myself—perhaps in a year or two. However, before I dive into that, I need to properly clean out my own mental closet to ensure no little demon-rats come scurrying out during the process.

befoodturntoshit, what kind of nonsense are you spewing? Your brain is going straight to hell if you're doing this stuff frequently. I was stumbling through high school myself, watching others go through it. Aside from the fact that you can walk away from MDMA with epilepsy, it completely wrecks your dopamine production. And don't even get me started on the dangers of excessive tripping. There was that guy who hallucinated that the street was level with his balcony, stepped right out into traffic, and ended his life. Then there was the idiot who took two full doses on his very first try; he spent the rest of his life hearing constant engine noises ringing in his ears until he eventually took his own life because he just couldn't bear the torment anymore.

And let’s be clear: that idea of someone being able to completely detox from dopamine for their entire life is a total myth.

Of course, if you only do it a few times in your lifetime, you'll likely be fine and nothing will happen to you. But listen, kid, you haven't seen the absolute nightmare scenarios you can stumble into...

But then again, weed is an entirely different story altogether.😍

Ryan Wilson2 said:I don't have anything planned right now, but I definitely intend to run some experiments down the road—maybe in a year or two. I really need to clean out my basement first so I don't end up letting some little demon-rat loose during the process.

😁 Haha, well, if you actually manage to get that basement cleaned out, you probably won't feel the need to experiment anymore...🙂

Eric Wells3 said:befoodturntoshit, what kind of nonsense are you talking? You’re basically frying your brain if you do this too often. I was messing around with stuff back in high school and watching others do the same. Besides, you can end up with epilepsy from using too much LSD. It completely wrecks your dopamine levels. Look, if you do it a couple of times in your life, you'll be fine—nothing's going to happen. But kid, you haven't seen the kind of absolute disaster you can spiral into...

That’s exactly my point—you shouldn't overdo it, whether it's eating greasy burgers or messing with psychedelics...😁

befoodturntoshit said:😁 Ha! If you actually manage to sweep out the junk and clear out the clutter, maybe you won't feel such a desperate need to go experimenting in the first place.🙂

Well, I suppose that ultimately depends on your perspective regarding these experiments.

I have a personal rule about cleaning up my workspace before I invite anyone inside. There is something to be said for maintaining order in one's own domain.

I’d say my life path was pretty much set by some early experimentation—specifically that first hit of ecstasy about 14 years ago. It felt like my third eye just snapped open, and I knew there was no going back. It was this artificial "push" that I clearly needed to finally see everyone for who they really are—just divine beings.
The changes were massive: I became way more tolerant of people, stopped seeing everything in black and white, and quit judging everyone and everything around me.

Honestly, I feel lucky because I know people who have been "working on themselves" for years and haven't moved the needle an inch.

It hasn't all been sunshine and rainbows, though—I had one pretty terrifying experience. After using some other stuff—poppers—I went through an astral projection where I barely managed to pull myself back. I was 19 at the time, totally clueless, just focused on college and partying. All I knew was that something intense had happened and I'd narrowly escaped something bad. It took a few months before I actually understood what had occurred, once I started reading Lobsang Rampa...

A lot of time has passed since then, but I’ll never forget those two instances...

Nowadays, I worry more about how my kid will navigate this world—and whether they'll feel the urge to experiment like I did. It feels like 10 or 15 years ago, substances were "cleaner"—less dangerous, less cut up, whether they were natural or synthetic. Real MDMA actually existed back then; what they sell as ecstasy now isn't even the same thing.

Anyway, to make a long story short—of course you can live without drugs. They're basically a shortcut, and anyone who’s read Castaneda knows that. But then again, looking back at someone like Timothy Leary, I think, "Thank God I wasn't living in that era." If I had been, I'd probably have a fried brain and a wrecked life by now.

Like I said before, you can't force anything positive onto an unprepared spirit—whether you're trying to muscle through it with spiritual techniques or just blasting it with drugs.

And let's be real: it's highly unlikely a 19-year-old has a spirit ready for those kinds of trips, even if they think some candy and poppers are enough to get them there. (Look, readiness isn't about age—I know 45-year-olds who you can't even give a glass of wine to without opening the gates to their own personal hell.😁)

Can a person even tell when their spirit is actually ready? It's tough. We barely know ourselves as it is, especially during those years when we're just starting to go looking for who we are.

Since we touched on Castaneda; that's a whole different story. If my memory serves me right, Castaneda was taught specific techniques slowly and steadily first. And if I'm remembering correctly, his teacher didn't even touch the mushrooms until he saw that the kid needed a deeper insight because he just couldn't break through certain barriers the "normal" way.😁.
So, you've got a spiritual seeker and an experienced master working toward a goal. In that case, the mushrooms were just a little nudge to help the process along.

by Eric Wells3

The worst part is how everyone who uses drugs thinks their situation is somehow special compared to everyone else.

It's like, yeah, I know people destroy themselves with this stuff and they know it's bad for the body... but I see it differently than the rest of them... for me, it's more than just a party... and then they're convinced they've justified their usage, totally failing to realize they aren't any different from every other user out there...

I've seen this firsthand too, so I'm with you. I had a friend who basically wrote an entire PhD thesis just to justify his daily marijuana habit.😁 Credit where credit is due; I'm still inspired by his work today because he almost convinced me he wasn't an addict and that it was all for some higher purpose.😁

befoo:
It’s worth pointing out that certain substances just release suppressed emotions. Facing those feelings can be painful and even shocking for people who aren't ready for it... but it can also be incredibly eye-opening.

I guess I agree with that point (with the tiny caveat that the girl in the example was just smoking a regular joint)

But that’s exactly where the danger lies.
The barriers between our conscious and subconscious minds aren't there for nothing.
The ultimate goal isn't just "releasing emotions."

The actual goal of any self-discovery is the capacity for integration—something that gets severely compromised when you're using drugs or trying aggressive spiritual techniques.
How is anyone supposed to be ready (or at least *think* they are ready) when they don't even realize what they're hiding from themselves?

Ryan Wilson2 put it perfectly:
Clean out the basement first (I prefer that term over "shack"😁), and then start experimenting (I won't get into the second half of his statement for ethical reasons)😁

Once the high wears off, you have to actually know what to do with that released emotion. Too often, people in their normal state of consciousness have no clue how to handle it or where to put it. Even if they act like they do.
That's why I say that Opium Den trips (much like aggressive spiritual practices) are basically a one-way ticket if you approach them with an unprepared mind and no guidance.

Casey Palmer5 said:Bottom line, if you ask me—the mind is at its most powerful when it’s completely clear. Most substances just clutter things up, clouding your consciousness and making the path to self-discovery way harder than it needs to be.

That’s true... but the thing is, a "clear mind" implies a mind totally free of thought—meaning no desires and no fears. Basically, Nirvana. And honestly? I don't think any of us have actually hit that level yet.

...though, if I hadn't caught those brief glimpses of a state without fear or desire through certain substances, I'd probably find it hard to believe such a state was even possible in the first place.

Paul Campbell3 said:but that’s exactly where the danger hides.
those walls between our conscious and subconscious minds aren't there by accident.
the end goal isn't just about letting emotions run wild.

I make it my mission to face every single unconscious emotion and fear I have... I’ve been practicing this for 16 years now, and it wasn't some conscious choice—it was more like an intense psychological surge that tore through my entire being (which, at the time, was totally fake and manufactured). Facing even two or three specific thoughts along with their raw emotions caused me to shatter like a windshield... it was a genuinely jarring experience, something straight out of a Kafka novel. It’s impossible to put into words how brutal it is when you're stuck in that position—but if a person doesn't give up (to madness or worse) and instead starts fighting back to rebuild themselves using nothing but their own heart, then—believe me—that is the only time you truly understand what life is about.

It’s only when you accept the fact that you are capable of being the absolute worst version of yourself that you can feel genuine compassion for everyone else, and that's when you finally stop judging people... only then do you realize the sheer bliss of a thoughtless state... and you won't need some heavy-handed dramatic scene involving a pool of blood to get the point across.

Wait, you missed that second paragraph!

Releasing all those suppressed emotions and actually integrating them once the drugs wear off? That phase—from what I’ve seen—is a total nightmare for people struggling with addiction. It's incredibly difficult.

Look, I know myself. When I’m high on weed, it’s like my brain finally clicks into gear. It sparks this creative fire that helps me knock out art or actually tackle problems that used to feel impossible. Everything just flows better. You get these wild, original ideas popping up out of nowhere. Plus, you get this weirdly sharp insight into people—you start seeing exactly what’s going on with everyone around you. You just slide into this headspace where everything feels right, like anything is possible.

And that’s exactly what everyone blathers on about when they start listing the "pros."

I’m honestly worried about that aftermath. You know, that phase once you finally snap out of it.😁.

Turning to drugs is usually just a sign that someone can't figure out how to deal with their own ego.
The development of the ego happens between ages 1.5 and 3. If that process is painful—or if parents start making subconscious mistakes during those formative years—it can blow up in someone's face later in life in a really dramatic way.

I really hope I don't have to stand here and repeat myself for the five hundredth time. Look, I’m not here to play preacher or lecture anyone—honestly, I don't care to. I'm just trying to make sense of things based on what I've actually been through. I'm explaining this mostly to get my own head straight, but maybe it'll help some of you too: that whole drive to reach for drugs and the idea of using them as some kind of shortcut for spiritual growth.

I’ve been doing some thinking—again, based on my own damn experience—and I think I’ve finally nailed down what actually drives us. It all comes down to one core emotion. Fear. It’s everywhere. Our parents basically dump all their own anxieties onto us. So instead of just dealing with our own stuff, we’re stuck carrying their fears too—plus the baggage from our grandparents who did the exact same thing to them. It's a never-ending cycle.

Check out this quote I stumbled upon—it’s pretty interesting:

It’s pretty wild how spiritual gurus always go on a tear against the "trippy" experiences people have through drugs—even just cannabis. They claim that catching a fragmented glimpse into higher planes before you’re actually ready is a dangerous game. Their big warning? It'll completely stall your progress. That’s basically what they tell anyone looking for guidance from a priest, a yogi, a Sufi, or a Buddhist monk. But here’s the paradox: so many people end up turning to substances in the first place because they’re desperately searching for some kind of deeper meaning in life. They get that one moment where it feels like they finally found it—only for the whole thing to fade away once the molecules leave their system and the magic illusion dissolves.

Here’s the bottom line on this whole thing, and honestly, it sums up my entire take:

Don't try to rush the process. You can't force things that need to happen while you're fully conscious, because they happen at exactly the pace they’re supposed to. Psychological growth isn't some sprint; it's a dynamic flow. You have to recognize things on an intuitive level, and for that to actually mean anything, you have to be present. If you try to mess with that natural rhythm—using shortcuts to speed it up or tools to slow it down—you're just sabotaging yourself. Inducing these states on your own? It's fake. It's artificial. It won't reflect what's actually going on in your psyche.

🙂

I’ve come to realize there’s a sort of universal spiritual principle when it comes to the relationship between substances and the soul:

-anything you can trigger chemically, you can also reach through spiritual practice.

When we go the chemical route, we’re essentially trying to hijack time itself—and all that comes with it is the massive risk of addiction or losing our grip on reality.

With spiritual techniques, though, we pursue those higher states of consciousness much more gradually. It’s a slower process, sure, but it’s natural and far more stable.

I absolutely loathe it when a deep discussion gets dragged down to nothing more than shallow, dry definitions—it’s basically a way to stifle Truth using the Mind...

Defining things is where spirituality goes to die!!!🙂

hiddenpuma75 said:I’ve come to realize there’s a universal spiritual law when it comes to drugs and spirituality:

Anything you can trigger chemically, you can also achieve through spiritual practice.

When you go the chemical route, you're essentially forcing time, all while flirting with addiction and losing your mind.

With spiritual techniques, you reach those higher states of consciousness slowly and naturally—but steadily.

Look, nothing truly worthwhile happens slowly, naturally, or "safely" (especially not safely!). You only expect a real expansion of consciousness when you're stepping out on 100% pure risk. It's only when you're willing to sacrifice everything that you can actually transcend your own ego... this isn't knitting socks.

Paul Campbell3 said:Actually, you missed that second paragraph:

What I'm about to say is basically my shorthand take on this whole situation:

The processes involved... blah blah

🙂

Paul Campbell3,
I can't quite put my finger on why I find you so likable (maybe it's just because you're a woman😁 ) ...